"physics"/"realism"

[dbcisco]

Let me start by saying I have FMS, AFPD, FS-One and RF g4.X.

I see alot of post about physics and realism but am getting confused. I have yet to find aircraft that match any in my fleet let alone react like them in any of the mentioned sims. I read that such and such had better physics or realism and that FMS doesn't have good physics.

In all the sims I have to edit an aircraft to get it to act like mine, including FMS. Yes, FMS physics can been changed. All you need is the free "PAR" editor that is a nice graphical, wireframe modeling system for aircraft dynamics in FMS models. You can also design models from scratch with several (also free) programs.

Yes, FMS isn't pretty. If you want "pretty" and "panoramic" go outside :D

Seriously though, I only bought the other sims for two reasons.

1. That aircraft would be like my real ones without having to "work" on them
2. I found out that I could do the same thing in FMS after I got the other sims.

Now, why are these expensive sims worth it?

I wish I had discovered the "extras" for FMS sooner. I could have bought a few more planes :(

[pivlrs]

I stated elsewhere that I thought FSOne had better physics than FMS. This was based on the behavior of a small heavy slope glider I created using the Tracon and the "scaling wizard" to shrink it (way) down and give it some heft.

What I found was that the model had a tendency to stall on one wing when in high-g turns. It would track the turn fine for a while, then suddenly start doing rolls. I even saw that if I pushed the turns just up to the g limit, I could see the wing start to shake a bit, but not stall. It looked to me like there was some pretty good modeling of aerodynamic transitions. Given that I started with a glider of of a completely different design, the behavior I saw on my little lead sled did not surprise me.

I haven't seen any of the free simulations do this sort of thing. Not saying they can't, but I have seen it.

Other aircraft in FSOne show some surprising behavior, too - I don't recall exactly which, but one of the 3D nitro planes will roll significantly on full-throttle take off, and one of the fan jets (the Mig, I think) loops like crap. All signs of good aerodynamic and physics modeling.

I'm not plugging FSOne (in fact, I'm kinda annoyed at them), but I personally feel that it has more realism than the free guys (although I do enjoy crrcsim to get some HLG stick time).

[BJM-Maxx]

I bought FSOne about a year ago based on hearing about the good physics modelling. It is unfortunate they are seemingly no longer developing the product. I bought it to train myself to fly with no previous skills. On the screen I can do knife edges, and flat spins pretty well every time but my hovering skills are terrible. I have since backed up my 3D skills with a foamy enough to know how the real plane and FSOne differ.

Just 2 weeks ago I bought RealFlight 4.5. In comparison it seems almost unable to do spins on most aircraft. FSOne seems more realistic. Landings on 4.5 are too easy and I have heard this comment elsewhere as well.

I really bought 4.5 to get into a package with good support and was hoping to do on-line play which worked once only for me. It is much harder on the graphics card than FSOne and to be honest it looks nicer but I have to turn an awful lot of things off to makes it smooth where FSOne has little adjustability and never caused me any issues.

My other motive was learning to fly of water as I have a lake where I intend to fly. It seems to model the water aspects at least enough for me to learn.

I am happy to have both but I think 4.5 is bit like Vista, needs premium hardware, looks great, but could be polished in the realism aspects.

[dbcisco]

I guess I have a different perspective on sims. I don't expect them to be perfect, just train me in the basics. If WWII pilots learned on Link simulators why can't I learn on something simple? OK, FMS can't emulate a custom made 1/4 scale P-51 and have the wings rip off at the right speed in a power dive :D It can teach a newcomer to handle a plane or helicopter much more successfully than he/she could without it. Now if you want to practice stunts or pylon racing and you are an advanced pilot then get one of the commercial sims. What I am saying is that the newcomer doesn't need them and that FMS is a darn good way of saving for that really nice aircraft once you learned not to crash every time you barely get off the ground :(

[Warbirds Rule]

I have FMS and RealFlight G4.5. In my opinion FMS is a great free tool for beginners to learn orientation and basic stick movements. Compared to the high end sims it's not even worth talking about. G4.5 doesn't just look prettier it's leaps and bounds ahead of FMS in actually modeling the flying characteristics of RC planes. I find it to be uncanny how it models 3D flight. I fly every Saturday and Sunday at the field, weather permitting, and my aerobatic flying has improved more in one month of using G4.5 than it did in an entire Summer being at the field. Before G4.5 I was trying to practice using FMS and in my opinion it just doesn't cut it when you start trying to learn intermediate and higher aerobatics.

The only other sim I've used besides RealFlight and FMS is FSOne on the store demo. The first time I used it I thought it was pretty good but the load times were ridiculously long and the selection of aircraft was very limited. The second time I tried it the store demo was malfunctioning so it's tough for me to compare. I think for $100 it's probably a good deal but I'd still rather spend the extra $100 and get RealFlight. I've never tried AFPD but I'd like to because most people seem to love it.

Sean

[dbcisco]

I only do Helis and WWI. Pretty slow fliers. I can't comment on 3D, I like scale flight so not too fancy. There aren't any Guillows conversions :rolleyes: in any of the sims and the only ones that match anything I have is the Tigermoth which I think FMS does a better IPS powered version, The MX-400 which most any T-rexed sim can come close enough for my purposes, and the coaxials in all of them (tough to muck up such a stable critter).

I like G4 but because of the multitude of FMS models I can get closer to my own fleet with just a little .par editing.

I'm not bashing the commercial sims, I just don't think they are for everyone. Comparing FMS to G4 is like comparing a Z28 to Lotus. A Z28s can't take a turn for .... and a Lotus isn't going to cut it at the drag strip. As in everything nothing fits everyone.

[Bartleby]

Yes, FMS isn't pretty. If you want "pretty" and "panoramic" go outside
If you couldn't find panoramic sceneries for FMS, you haven't been looking very hard: http://www.szenerien.de/FMS-Szenerien/index.htm

Regards

[deadpedal]

I'm with you guys on FSOne. I bought it when it was $200 and have never had a regret because I'm sure it has saved me a ton in real crashes. After trying it and G4 side by side at my LHS, I was sold on FSOne because it felt much more like what I was experiencing at the field. I am VERY disappointed that they are no longer developing add ons for it. I got that first flight pack as soon as I could get my hands on it. If you want realism, it's a steal for $99 now.

[BJM-Maxx]

FSOne was full price when I bought it, I can only assume its cheaper now to let them keep cranking it out without having to improve it. Even if they released an updated version they would not be able to raise the price again. I guess its dead.

It definitely does everything slowly and the complete lack of a useable manual does not help. However, it flies more like what I see in real life.

[dbcisco]

If you couldn't find panoramic sceneries for FMS, you haven't been looking very hard: http://www.szenerien.de/FMS-Szenerien/index.htm

Regards

I know there are tons of planes and scenes for FMS that is why I like it.
what I am refering to is the alleged "photo realism" of the commercial sims.