PPJOY without LPT

[ollk]

Hi I have a walkera WK2401 PPM connected through my soundcard on my PC and got perfect results in FMS & HelisimRC. Now I would like to get the controller working on my laptop but there is one problem... PPJOY needs a LPT port to operate properly and my lappy doesn't have...

Anyone successfully found a way to solve this issue?

The only thing I could see was a USB > PP adaptor lead to allow pp printers to be used but I am not prepared to spend the money to find out it won't work!

BTW FMS works fine but I want to get HelisimRC working before I consider Clearview / Phoenix and this is where I need access to a game controller via PPJOY.

Help appreciated..

olly.

[dbcisco]

I have a serial connector on the cable that came with my DF4. Where did you get a parallel port cable for it?

[ollk]

The cables are on ebay it is a USB > Parallel cable to enable older printers to operate on newer commuters without comm ports. look up item 370142680414 - I emailed the seller and they said the cable appears as a usb device but couldn't say if a virtual LPT port was created or not.

I would just buy it but I am on my 3rd motor this month and one or two other bits and I have to hide the bills from o/h!

[skirtz]

Do yourself a favor and forget for parallel and serial ports. There are USB cables for less than $7 delivered. Any parallel to usb or com to usb cable cost more than that and may or may not work and require drivers. Why bother with ppjoy if there is a cable for $7 is hard to comprehend.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[dbcisco]

Do yourself a favor and forget for parallel and serial ports. There are USB cables for less than $7 delivered. Any parallel to usb or com to usb cable cost more than that and may or may not work and require drivers. Why bother with ppjoy if there is a cable for $7 is hard to comprehend.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

They don't work with Walkera transmitters. The only one I've seen for Walkera is a serial one.

[skirtz]

I see. Did not know that. Is it because Walkera Tx has a special trainer connector? Using a Tx for simulator (in my opinion) is not very practical because you have to charge the batteries. I use this GWS USB tx and like it a lot:

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3660

It is probably under $30 delivered, but is very good quality and stick feel.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[dbcisco]

I see. Did not know that. Is it because Walkera Tx has a special trainer connector? Using a Tx for simulator (in my opinion) is not very practical because you have to charge the batteries. I use this GWS USB tx and like it a lot:

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3660

It is probably under $30 delivered, but is very good quality and stick feel.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

Wakera uses a proprietary encoding method that isn't compatible with the Futaba/JR standards

[ollk]

I have only used my tx on batteries once. Ever. As the charge socket is a direct connection to the battery box terminals a well regulated 9-12v PSU is more than adequate so you can save batteries for anything other than living room flights.

I see. Did not know that. Is it because Walkera Tx has a special trainer connector? Using a Tx for simulator (in my opinion) is not very practical because you have to charge the batteries. I use this GWS USB tx and like it a lot:

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3660

It is probably under $30 delivered, but is very good quality and stick feel.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[ollk]

I see. Did not know that. Is it because Walkera Tx has a special trainer connector? Using a Tx for simulator (in my opinion) is not very practical because you have to charge the batteries. I use this GWS USB tx and like it a lot:

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3660

It is probably under $30 delivered, but is very good quality and stick feel.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

Yes but if I buy that controller I can not justify the extra to buy your software ;) The misses wouldn't understand the need as she sees me with other sims anyway. Add to that I like my setup means fewer spare motors for my real flying...
Maybe you could add support for SmartPropoplus in your next release :D

[Malc C]

Wakera uses a proprietary encoding method that isn't compatible with the Futaba/JR standards

This is the problem. Before the RTF products from the far east flooded the markets most RC equipment manufactures produced transmitters to these standards which made for excellent compatibility. Now with so many propriety protocols interface manufactures simply can't and IMO shouldn't try to keep up with these diverse products.

It really bugs me when owners of these non standard transmitters start blaming the interface manufacture, or / and the sim developers when they try and use it with the cheap transmitters that don't follow a traditional protocol that has been around for so long. My advice to anyone with one of these non standard TX's who wants to use simulator, is simply to invest in an old 4ch Futaba / JR set for use with that sim. Or look for a sim that comes with its own interlinked controller. It will save you lots of hassle

[skirtz]

I second that. Most if not 100% of these transmitters are pure garbage that pollutes the earth. I will rather have 1 good Tx than 10 of these (these days every $30 model must come with it's own transmitter).

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[ollk]

You know Stefan you do a great job of ailienating people. Seriously mate I would change your general attitude you want to sell your software, then cut down on the stupid remarks and attitude. You see, I see good vender, who has something that I am interested in, I get CONSTRUCTIVE advice from vendor and I like software = sale = I recommend, maybe.

Bad / rude / unhelpful vendor = no sale and no recommendations.

This could be your undoing in the end because someone else is going to come along with a better sim than you one day and what they will have is good communication with their customer.

Regarding 'pure garbage' or 'diverse' Tx, heli packages like the 4#3b make r/c heli flying accessible to people like me who would not normally have access to such luxuries, and rightly so! Now 'standards' are always challenged no matter how good or well established they are look at whitworth thread, philips or pozi drivers which are incompatible but yet do the same job!

I started this thread to ask for help. If you want to discuss the rights or wrongs of what I am asking then you can both start another thread which is on topic. You are not actually adding anything useful.

Now I am going to plug my tx in the computer as it works perfectly their (contrary to assumptions made above).

Good night.

[skirtz]

You are sooo self riteos. I am hanging here on this forum because I LIKE being here and not to sell you stuff. I have been on this forum before I wrote my simulator and I many many years before you as well. I am not going to stop posting what I think just because someone like you have closed mind and not want to see or read what other do, what they use and why. Keep your Walkera stuff and be happy with it. It it the best. Next time you get another Walkera model, you will get the one more transmitter (they are really great) for your collection. I had one Tx - Futaba 9ZHP for 17 years until the plastic started to crumble. I have flown more than 100 models with it. Something to think about.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[skirtz]

One more thing - PPJoy DOES NOT require paralel port. I used to have it working on my old XP system and the system did not have parallel port.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[ollk]

One more thing - PPJoy DOES NOT require paralel port. I used to have it working on my old XP system and the system did not have parallel port.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

Virtual joystick doesn't work on my PC OR Laptop whereas LPT based joystick DOES work perfectly on my PC.

So I suspect, that I am right in that I DO need at least a virtual based LPT that the software can communicate with. Maybe you know better and could give me some helpful, constructive and polite advice here?

[skirtz]

Smart Propo comes in two versions - for FMS and General Purpose version. You need to download and install the "General Purpose" version. It works together with PPJoy. You install PPJoy first. PPJoy creates Virtual Joystick that in Windows loooks like normal Game Pad and can be used in any simulator that works with Game Pads. You then configure Smart Propo to works with the PPJoy driver. SmartPropo takes your Tx info and send it to PPJoy. Here is the General Version for SPP:
SPP General Purpose version (http://www.smartpropoplus.com/BlueAndGrey/Download_Frame.asp)

Here is the manual how to set it with PPJoy:
SPP to PPJoy Setup (http://www.smartpropoplus.com/BlueAndGrey/SPP-PPJ-3.0.0-RN.pdf)

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Malc C]

Ollk, mate, you came down on Stefan a bit hard there.. look at his post count, most of those have been in helping others with issues, either related to his product, or even sorting out those with his competitors... Stefan has also been around here for over four years, and yes some of the post were promoting his product, which by the way is far superior to FMS, but most have been supporting members of this forum. For someone who has been a member for just one month or less to slag off a long standing member IMO is a bit much.

As for the products, IMO these cheap RTF models are not much more than toys. Often the quality control is no existent, and its a gamble if you get a decent one or one that is destined for the skip right out of the box. Yes theses cheap models have made entry into the model helicopter possible for the masses, but often there is a negative side, as you are experiencing. Because their quality control is so poor, or because they don't stick to the agreed standards for protocols or for pin outs on trainer ports etc it can make the purchaser / owner frustrated and disappointed, sometimes to the point that the leave the hobby altogether.

Stefan has now posted links for you - he's tried helping you even after post slagging him off. Now it may be that these options do indeed allow you to get some control using the supplied TX that came with the RTF package, however if this model used a 120 degree swash plate, I bet your next post would be something along the lines of "when I move the throttle several other bars on the calibration screen also move" because the TX probably has encoded CCPM that can't be unmixed !

[ollk]

ok I only came down on Stefan because of his attitude which did not help the situation - it had nothing to do with any form of promotion. I actually realise he has this right as a sponser. I have been considering his software and hence I expect the person I am to purchase off to be a little more constructive and helpful. NOT to tell me I have cr@p gear.
I think if you had properly read my posts you would realise this (I know you haven't because I have got both software working on PC no problems!)
Again I think if Stefan gave me 'some' credit he would understand that I have been to every link and website etc. and indeed have both versions up and running. The reason I have assumed LPT is required is because the original tutorial I followed suggested this, simple as that. It works fine on my PC just not as a virtual joystick on PPJOY on my lappy - I suspect because in the mappings part for some reason it makes the assumption my tx is 16 channels with xx digital buttons and whatever else - the box to change this to 4, as it should be is grayed out... PPJOY APPEARS TO BE THE PROBLEM HERE NOT Tx OR SPP+.

Anyway, I appreciate Stefans help, although everything I have written are my feelings as I have experienced first hand so do not regret what I have said previously.

[skirtz]

>I have been considering his software and hence I expect the person I am to purchase off to be a little more constructive and helpful. NOT to tell me I have cr@p gear.

Because you are considering my software, you want me to tell you "Hey, guy - you have made great purchase, your gear is first class" and therefore soften you to buy my software? Hehehe... Do you really think I will do that?
So you will feel better if I lied to you?


Here is what I said:
>Most if not 100% of these transmitters are pure garbage that pollutes the earth. I will rather have 1 good Tx than 10 of these (these days every $30 model must come with it's own transmitter).

This is as generic as it can be. It was not related you you at all. I was resonnding to Malc. There is no a single word for you or your gear. However, unprovoked, you attack me like I am at fault for your choice.


Finally let's get serious: I looked at this product and is $150, what is not a small amount for what you get. Let's be real. It is a toy. Expencive at that. I can get a used REAL CP ellectric 400 class heli with real radio and all for that amount and I will be much better off. And, no, this is not to attack you but to help.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[skirtz]

Here is something more for you ollk:

You say:
>PPJOY APPEARS TO BE THE PROBLEM HERE NOT Tx OR SPP+.

The fact is, YOU are the problem, because you did not configure it properly.

Do you know that the author of PPJoy stopped working on his software (that you are using FOR FREE and bad mouthing it at that) exactly because of people like you?

Here is what he said (on his PPJOY page (http://www.geocities.com/deonvdw/PPJoy.htm)):

I have decided to stop PPJoy development.
Why? Firstly I can no longer afford to spend the many hours and days it takes to develop PPJoy and maintain the documentation.

Secondly, people on the Internet today seem to be an ungrateful bunch. I have received about 5 postcards and 4 donations. And thank-you emails have been few and far between... Hardly worth the effort I put into PPJoy! Instead I get emails mindlessly asking questions already answered in the manual.

Will there be a next version of PPJoy? I don't know. Probably not any time soon. And if there is a new version is will no longer be free. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

[Malc C]

Ollk, you seemed to of seriously rattled Stefan's cage :)

[ollk]

You win some, you lose some I guess :)

[Jman44]

I have to agree with Ollk. Walkera's are an affordable alternative to more expensive helis. Many people are enjoying them, including me.

Ollk, I was wondering if you could tell me how you got the 2401 to work with fms? I can't quite figure it out. The thermometer in propoplus shows its working but it doesn't seem to work in FMS.

[ollk]

I have to agree with Ollk. Walkera's are an affordable alternative to more expensive helis. Many people are enjoying them, including me.

And don't forget, perhaps one of the best training options available - and that comes from a lot of experienced heli people too!

http://www.smartpropoplus.com/BlueAndGrey/Download.htm is a good tutorial if you haven't been their already, but make sure you have the latest version of smartpropoplus (http://n.ethz.ch/~mmoeller/fms/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5174&highlight=walkera+ppm). You can specifically select Walkera PPM in the drop down menu.

You might also have to mess around with levels follow the tutorial and check the signal looks nice and clean on winscope.

Regarding my problem with PPJOY I have fixed by completely removing and re-installing so I am sure there must have been an error.

Not sure how I could have miss-configured as suggested above if all my mapping options were grayed out but hey it's all sort now :D

[dbcisco]

It is only Walkera's fault that they have a proprietary system.
Be grateful that people are giving away a fix for it.
I hated that I had to do alot of work to get the Walkera TX work, finally got it working with FMS.

When I finally bought a used Futaba TX, what a difference in my attitude!

What really gets me, I have a commercial sim or three that make me use their TXes with my good one. They can't seem to put the dongle in the cable. Shows how much effort they put in to it. :mad:

I haven't got Clearview but from the Demo, I should have bought it and a few planes and helis instead of wasting almost a thousand dollars on those expensive sims.

BTW, Walkera's are rebranded by other companies and sold for more with a different sticker and only the reciever and transmitter different. I have four of them, one Walkera and three rebranded (got them dirt cheap at auctions)

If you like the Walkera, I seriously recommend replacing the RX and getting a nice used 6CH Futaba RX.

[Malc C]

What really gets me, I have a commercial sim or three that make me use their TXes with my good one. They can't seem to put the dongle in the cable. Shows how much effort they put in to it. :mad:

This is one reason that originally XTR, and then latterly Phoenix is supplied with the USB interface/dongle. It allows you to use your own transmitter to control the sim models. Because it was intended to use the same TX that you use to fly with it made for an excellent training aid. However these interfaces required the standard protocol mentioned above, and with the sudden flood of the Walkera and their clones appearing on the market people then became disappointed and frustrated when their cheap TX's wouldn't work with these sims, and often blamed the sim manufactures rather than the model manufacture.

You see before Walkera and their counterparts appeared, you knew with some certainty that if you upgraded any item of radio equipment, or invested in a sim that there was a 99% certainty it would be compatible with the equipment you current have. This was because everyone sang from the same hymn sheet and conformed to the agreed standards. Today its a mindfield and you have to take pot luck or go to a lot of grief in order to make something work when you opt to purchase one of these toys.

[dbcisco]

I find as a general rule Futaba compatible equipment is popular with the Heli folks and JR compatible equipment is dominant in the airplane circles with Futaba in there as well.

The different flavors of 2.4Ghz is another can of worms :D

Walkera is pretty much in a world of its own :(

[Jman44]

Got it to work, turned out to be a sound card issue. Thanks Ollk.