Wicked powered Windrider BD-5J EDF Jet

[The Don]

Starting my log for the Windrider BD-5J kit. It arrived just the other day and I am ready to get started now. Here is how it looks! Very nicely molded kit!

Don

[The Don]

I purchased my kit with the stock 60mm EDF fan set. The rotor is basically a clone of the Alfa 3 blade and 5 blade rotor. It comes with two rotor adapters which is nice. Since this model is a little bigger then my Alfa jets, I am going to go with the Wicked 4000 and the 5 blade rotor and a 4S 2350 Rhino lipo. The Wicked is a drop fit into the stock fan, and here is the photo sequence for the fan assembly.

Don

[One Six Right]

Very nice Don. Thanks for the pics. Dang already more guys, right from the get go, building modified drive sytems for this jet than the F-35 Contest to date. I'd love to see the speeds of the fast ones. :)
I have all components ready for this one,but still haven't received mine yet. :(

[The Don]

I was going to put a 64mm fan in as the outlet exit is about perfect for an 80% FSA on a 64mm fan. But I always like to fly them first on the stock fans first. Plus I think the inlets may need work for bigger fans as well. More photos tomorrow as I build :)

By the way, I think this model will scoot pretty good actually on the bigger power systems.

Don

[Joe Pierson]

Looks really neat!
Joe

[Ming]

The inlet is over 100% of FSA of 60mm EDF.

Ming Lou

[crtaylor]

Hello Don, hows the stock fan run ,did you have to balance the fan? I started covering mine tonight .Ill be ordering my motor from you soon. crtaylor

[The Don]

Did not work on it tonight as I came down with a bit of a cold with a sore throat today. I was felling a little off yesterday but it hit me today. So I have just been taking my pills and getting happy on a bottle of Nyquil and cruising RCG :D Fortunately I think I started battling it just at the right time though and I think it is going to be a short lived cold.

Don

[Ming]

Movie link:
http://www.windrider.com.hk/product...video%20web.wmv

Ming Lou

[The Don]

OK more progress. I soldered my ESC on and did a test run and I like this fan. Basically like an alfa fan but you can balance the fan easily as the spinner comes off with a small screw so you can add tape inside then rotate, run rotate.

I was happy with the power, it is what I wanted, I am using the Wicked 4000 and a 4S 2350 25C Rhino lipo. I was getting 480 watts at WOT and the fan was singing along :D You will want to order the Wicked 4000 with the standoff adapter and no rotor plug option to fit this fan. You will also need to make a short extension between the ESC and motor wires so the ESC will reach its bay. See photos.

Don

[The Don]

Here are some FSA calculations on the included fan

FSA= 3.1415*.25*(59.4^2-31.2^2) = 2006.7mm2
Outlet= 52.5mm diameter = 3.1415*.25*52.5*52.5 = 2164.8mm2
So outlet is 2164.8/2006.7= 107.9% FSA
50.55
90% FSA= 47.96mm = 1.88"
80% FSA= 45.21mm = 1.78"

The is essentially the same as the Alfa fans where a 1.8" diameter nozzle is the best so that is what I am going to run with as well.

Don

[The Don]

Ok here is my first mod to get the FSA I want on the outlet. Basically measure out 10mm on each side then cut the foam away. You can then reform the foam to a smaller diameter.

Don

[Spid]

Another sweet EDF Don!! I've been eyeing this one up as well. I think Ming has done a great job on it! I can't wait to see this one in person too. Good stuff.

Kevin

[The Don]

OK here are some more photos.

Don

[The Don]

And some more.

Don

[SON OF PALEFACE]

Excellent photo's and nice work...I got mine 2day...had already lined up the mods to the inlet and will also be doing Mings mod to the stab hinge
Im going to shoehorn in this World Models fan....
http://www.theworldmodels.com/para/products/accessoriesdetail.php?id=123&subcat=0
Ian

[crtaylor]

Looking good Don,what color scheme you going to go with?

[kushal_22]

Anymore Progress on this Don?

Regards
Mal

[The Don]

Hope to have more soon. Been fighting with my computer the past day or so.

Don

[The Don]

Working on the ailerons now.

[kushal_22]

Don
what are those Two slits i can see on the wing in the Servo Photo?

Mal

[crtaylor]

Don
what are those Two slits i can see on the wing in the Servo Photo?

Mal
Thats where spar is suppose to be .mine s not in there. :mad:

[kushal_22]

Thats where spar is suppose to be .mine s not in there. :mad:

Well you better get one in there ;) .....Mind you it would be good for hogging out for retracts then glass it.

Mal

[SON OF PALEFACE]

I think Ming should send you a wing with the spar in , considering the speed and loads ....that is just lack of proper quality control....... :( :(

[kushal_22]

Looking good Don,what color scheme you going to go with?

I was wanting to do the one in your Avatar. Simple yet it has some "Flash".

Mal

[Ming]

crtaylor

Please email me.

Ming Lou

[crtaylor]

1st, I want to clear the the air .I am not bashing windrider in anyway, shape or form on the wing & spar ,mistakes in mass production can happen .2nd , Ming is making it all good . I just posted so you all can check yours .I love my BD5J and cant waite to fly it . crtaylor

[SON OF PALEFACE]

good stuff Ming..............

I just got my second one to do as a prop pusher,,,like the original ;)

Ian..........down under

[The Don]

Well mine is all finished. The plane is 17.2 ounces less lipo, and 26.5 ounces with a 4S2350 Zippy lipo. I have started my paint job, I have something in mind I hope it works out.

Don

[kushal_22]

1st, I want to clear the the air .I am not bashing windrider in anyway, shape or form on the wing & spar ,mistakes in mass production can happen .2nd , Ming is making it all good . I just posted so you all can check yours .I love my BD5J and cant waite to fly it . crtaylor

I don`t think there was ever a doubt that would happen. ;)
Ming has Always been excellent to deal with.

Looking forward to seeing the end result Don


Mal
BTW have you guy`s thought about using those ROBART HINGES? 3 or 4 of those would work just as well. easier to put in too.

[shhhhh!]

Looks great Don...also thanks for doing his build thread...really helps.
-Dave

[crtaylor]

WOW, Love the yellow, What hinges on the alerons ?

[kushal_22]

No No.....Not on the Ailerons :rolleyes: :p On the flying Stab ;)


We really should leave this clean and open for Don....Sorry bout that Don.

Mal

[The Don]

On the ailerons I used a "live hinge". what I did was cut the tips of the aileron free, bend the aileron up and down a few times then used clear packing top all along the top and then three 1" or so long pieces on the underside (one on each end and one in the middle). I should have used an empty ball point pen to "score' a hinge line to make it look cleaner as to where it bends but it is good enough as is.

Here is my color scheme, "Bob Hoover" inspired.

Don

[BARNESJONR]

Time to let 'er rip Don! Looking forward to seeing how she performs. Hows the Wx in Willoughby? ;)

[The Don]

Actually the temperature the past few days has been nice. Just the winds suck, 15-20 mph the next two days then 20-30mph the day after that! AHHHHH :censored:

[The Don]

The logos and text are printed on Avery "clear" label paper. They are almost clear but the clear has a haze to it. Oh well. Anyhow here are the files I used to print them out.

Don

[kushal_22]

You Taking orders? I need three saying"Budlight" ;) :p

Mal

[Triton08]

Hi, is there anywhere a manual for the bd-5j (CG and so on) thanks

Triton

[The Don]

There is only this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11327550&postcount=208

[Triton08]

There is only this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11327550&postcount=208

Thank you Don

[One Six Right]

Good build thread Don. Nice work, and pics of it. Thanks for the tips and ideas.
Gary

[The Don]

Just maidened mine and it was AWESOME!!!!! Uploading video to YouTube as we speak!

Don

[The Don]

Here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RSvacxmwPE

Link fixed!

Don

[crtaylor]

Don , link not working.

[The Don]

Looks like YouTube is taking its time to process it :rolleyes:
Don

[crtaylor]

Looks like YouTube is taking its time to process it :rolleyes:
Don
OK :D

[The Don]

Since YT is taking its sweet old time, here are the control throws and CG I have. It flew right out of my hand.

Aileron: 7mm up and 7mm down
Elevator: 10mm up and 10 mm down
CG: 5/16" in front of the aileron wire holes on the bottom of the body.

Don

[fh64_lucky]

It took over 2 hours for Youtube to process my video on Saturday... :rolleyes: Looking forwards to this one... :)
After I paint a body,I go back over whole thing with 1 coat of Polycrillic polyurethane,It protects the paint from chipping,and gives it 1 heck of a gloss . :D

[The Don]

3 hours and counting :eek: :censored:

[fh64_lucky]

Maybee you could just morse code it to me??? :D

[The Don]

Maybee you could just morse code it to me??? :D

I uploaded the file to my website for download.
http://www.slusarczyk.com/BD5/BD5_Maiden.wmv

Temp was 28F (cold!)

[The Don]

Reloaded to YouTube and this video converted right away.
Don

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RSvacxmwPE

[crtaylor]

Wicked Fast Don ,sounds like you only flew at 1/2 ,2/3 throttle. Seems outrunners are the only way to go :D .
Still waiting on my new wing ,got the fuse ready for,final sandig ,paint .Great job on your BD5J .I dont think Mr Hoover could sip on a cup of tea in this little screamer. crtaylor

[shhhhh!]

Great Video Don!!!!!!!!!!
-Dave

[Spid]

Excellent job Don! That thing really scoots along at a good clip!

[fh64_lucky]

How well does it behave?I see you had a decent flight time,what will a WOT runtime be with that setup?Est. speed under full throttle?I need to adopt your headcam idea ,it works well... :) Joe

[SON OF PALEFACE]

How well does it behave?I see you had a decent flight time,what will a WOT runtime be with that setup?Est. speed under full throttle?I need to adopt your headcam idea ,it works well... :) Joe

I didnt think so...apart for a few glimpses as it rocketed past......needs a camera person with zoom......nice clouds..... :rolleyes: ;)

[fh64_lucky]

Its hard to always have somebody there to video a plane,I know about that.With the headcam,at least you can record when you can fly,not when you have somebody there to do that.... :rolleyes:

[The Don]

Its hard to always have somebody there to video a plane,I know about that.With the headcam,at least you can record when you can fly,not when you have somebody there to do that.... :rolleyes:

That is exactly why I have the head cam. I was the only one at the park, and only decided to fly it on my way home from work when I saw the conditions were good for flying. It is also handy for doppler readings as well. Once I can get together with my buddy Bill, I will have him video a flight for me so you can see it better.

Don

[The Don]

How well does it behave?I see you had a decent flight time,what will a WOT runtime be with that setup?Est. speed under full throttle?I need to adopt your headcam idea ,it works well... :) Joe

It was about 500 watts full throttle so that would be about 34-35 amps on a 4S2350 so that is about 4 minutes WOT. I forgot to use my charger that measures the mah put back into the lipo, otherwise I could give you a better idea. I was just happy at the break in the weather to fly it!

Don

[fh64_lucky]

I hear ya Don,weathers been a bugger last couple weekends here also.Sheesh,dont worry bout Video,I watched it agian,and jet shows up very well in it,I have had guys video my jets and come out not nearly as good as that one did.... ;) I have to say..it looked smooth! Ya know...I was happy with all the jets I have flying right now,and ya go ahead and do this one...dang you!!! :p Joe

[djRCJones]

Hi Don,

Very cool video and nice paint job. How did you go abouting your BD-5J?

I just purchased one and like to paint it.

David

[The Don]

Hi Don,
Very cool video and nice paint job. How did you go abouting your BD-5J?
I just purchased one and like to paint it.
David

I used Testors Model Master spray paint. The stuff in black are stickers I printed out on my computer. Although I now have a vinyl cutter so can cut stuff in vinyl now.

Don

[The Don]

Flew the BD-5 again today. My buddy Bill took some video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu1oPr2I1uY&feature=channel_page

[yakflight]

Hello Don,

great job on this build thread. Just order the BD5-J from Ming and have a few questions for you.

- Is the EPP much heavier than the EPS?
- I got Ming's Scorpion motor HK 2221 8BL and Scorpion ESC 45A. Should I go with Ming's original design tailpipe or should I reduce the diameter as you are showing in this thread?

Thanks!

[kushal_22]

I have Both the EPP and EPS. Question is are you going to want to modify this Alot? retratcs Glassing the Wings ECT? If So then go with EPS If not EPP is more durable and weight penalty is Neglagible.
Mal

[yakflight]

The plan is to aim for simplicity with no gears or other add-ons. The goal is for a durable airframe. I do not mind a little higher wing-loading, so I am going for EPP. Even though I am building an EDF, I plan on often using a slope near where I live and the landing pad there is pretty tight, so I need a durable airframe that can handle it. Here is a video flying my slope BD5 at the site.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376218&page=3

[KRAZY KAT]

Hello Don, wuz think'in bout getting the Bd5-J. Was wondering what needs to be done to improve the elevator hindge setup. I read something about putten plywood support? Please Help. Thanks Don.

[The Don]

The hinge I think is plenty strong actually. My issue is slop in the linkage connection. I am working on that right now actually, the elevator will move up or down with no servo movement. It looks like the pushrod flexes too much.

Don

[KRAZY KAT]

So i guess you would need to change the linkage to a rod maybe? Also how do you think the Bd5-J will do on your 4800 or 5400 3-cell? Thanks

[The Don]

Here is what I did, went to a much stiffer rod and replaced the servo. Now it is MUCH better.

Don

[The Don]

Also how do you think the Bd5-J will do on your 4800 or 5400 3-cell? Thanks

I would think the 5400on a 3 cell with the 5 blade rotor will be pretty good.

Don

[KRAZY KAT]

Thanks Don for the update . I tried to order the motor and speedcontrol for a bd5 but i don't know what the heck is wrong with paypal. I have more the enough on my credit but i was denied. I'll call them tomorrow to see if i can clear this mess up.

[kushal_22]

I Put in a Carbon rod in the EPS one as well. After reading Dons suggestion of eliminating Slop. I am Planning on doing the same with #2 Thanks for the Help Don! :p


Mal

[SON OF PALEFACE]

you didnt do the wood thing at the hinge ????

[The Don]

Nope. The metal hinge seems to be just fine to me. I have the back of the plane glued back on so hoping to go fly today :)

Don

[SON OF PALEFACE]

The metal hinges are ok , what Im talking about is this..............

The blue is wood , the red is the metal hinges ;)

[kushal_22]

It Can be done but it is not absolulty nescesary.

It``s not a Hard mod to do if you have not put the elevator on yet.
Qiute easy reallyy all i did was get some 3/16 lite ply and sandwich the hinges in between.

Regards
Mal

[The Don]

My hinge is right in the foam but I did pin them (see post #14). I flew it today with the new elevator linkage and a HUGE difference. I had a blast.

Don

[KRAZY KAT]

Don, do you think it's nescesary to put plywood between the hindge or just put in a strong linkage will do the trick? Thank Don.

[The Don]

I have no ply on mine and it seems quite happy. Perhaps a higher power setup will be a different story.

Don

[KRAZY KAT]

Thanks Don for all your help. I ordered the epp one with the fan and will be using the same setup as the one you are flying. It should be here maybe by next week. I love the way it flys and just floats around.

[crtaylor]

Don ,can I use a CC60 on the wicked motor? crtaylor

[The Don]

Sure can.

Don

[crtaylor]

Sure can.

Don
Cool ,gonna get one for the stock fan. crtaylor

[sukhoidave]

Don, I see that you have the wicked fans out of stock currently. What's the word on restocking? Are the Esky servos the only ones you offer?

I'm wanting to do a BD-5j with a wicked extreme 5400. I have some 3S 2250mah 30c Rhino batteries that I'd like to use. I imagine I'd get a pentium 40 amp ESC from you also. What are your thoughts on that set up and/or advice? Can you compare that to the set-up that Windrider offers from them with the Scorpion HK 2221-8 brushless motor and Scorpion 45 amp esc with Futaba 3107 servos? (Faster would be fine but I'm ok with fast enough and then would rather get longer duration flights)

[The Don]

I actually have them in stock but they sent me the wrong size collet adapter but I probably have a few extra of the correct size collet so I can ship a set out. As far as the Scorpion motor I honestly do not know as that is a bigger fan as well.

Don

[kushal_22]

I have that setup and wish i had a Little "Extra" If you going to go with the Scorpion motor go with the 6

Mal

[KRAZY KAT]

Hello Don, was there any instruction on doing a pusher for the BD-5?? I was thinking of doing one with your 2700 motor on 4S and the pent 40 amp.

[The Don]

No pusher instructions.

Don

[yakflight]

I got the Motor and EDF from Ming as follow:

Motor: Scorpion HK II-2221-6
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/motors/hk22/HK-2221-6
ESC: Scorpion Commander 45A (6v/4A BEC) 5-15V
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/speed_controllers/6s_lipo_sbec/6S-Com45A-ESC

I see that Don used a connector to extend his outrunner to the outside of the EDF motor casing. My question is: Can the above motor (out-runner) be installed inside the EDF motor casing as I have it now - See pictures

The outrunner seem to have enough clearance inside of the casing but gets a little tight when I tighten the mounting bolts in the front.

Thierry

[The Don]

I see that Don used a connector to extend his outrunner to the outside of the EDF motor casing. My question is: Can the above motor (out-runner) be installed inside the EDF motor casing as I have it now - See pictures
The outrunner seem to have enough clearance inside of the casing but gets a little tight when I tighten the mounting bolts in the front.
Thierry

You may want to ask Ming in the other BD-5 thread. I am not familiar with that motor so have no idea what to tell you :(

Don

[kushal_22]

I run mine like that. I had to run the motor up a couple of times before it ran smooth. But she runs like a champ now. I gather you figured out about having to make a little Nick in the housing for the motor wires?? Another good motor to use is the Aling 4/30L as it is a "outrunner/inrunner PLUS the motor wires are at the bottom of the motor

Regards
Mal

[$h@d0w]

Hi Don,

I got a Wicked 4800 from you sometime ago. Would this motor be good on the Alfa fan with a 5 bladed rotor and a 4S 2250mah battery? I'm thinking of using a CC-60 on this setup. Thanks.

[The Don]

That will be a great setup!

Don

[$h@d0w]

Thanks. This plane would be next on my list. :)

[KRAZY KAT]

Hey Don here's a pic of my future pusher bd-5

[KRAZY KAT]

Don, its all balance and ready to maiden. BD-5 Dons 2700 kv, pentium 40,

[The Don]

Awesome looking model! I am thinking of converting mine to pusher as well. What size prop?

Don