First Plus 2m Build-Mod

[Gordysoar]

Hi Guys,

I started this thread on the RCSE but am continuing it here to the finish.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=977261&highlight=First+2m+Build+Log+Starts%21

I added the info from there to this thread below.

So this post starts after:

Last night I installed the hardwood wing bolt blocks into the wing panels and capped the wing roots with the Poplar skin material.

I removed the foam around the inner skin perimeter of each wing root, filled it with a splooge of resin and filler, then using masking tape, I positioned the wing root caps in place. The splooge connects the skin to the caps, more than just an edge to face glue joint. This also joins the wing hold down bolt block to the entire skin.

I was carefull to not get any of the splooge into the joiner boxes.

After the caps were on I used a dremel to open the joiner box access thru the caps.

I also removed foam from the ends of the wing surfaces, then filled the voids in with splooge per the directions.

[Gordysoar]

First + 2m Build Log Starts!

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Hi Guys,
Okay I decided to make my wing have a bit of Poly, so I cut the wing panels at the flap/aileron joint. Then I installed 'tongues' of carbon strips about 2" long, three slipped under the sheeting on the bottom and three on top. One about 1/4" off the trailing edge, one under the wiring hole in the foam (which I opened up to about 1/4" with a threaded rod to ease running or un-running servo wires) and one about 1/2" off the leading edge.

The placement of all tabs was scientifically calculated using this formula:
I wanted to get it done, I was freezing in the garage, and had to take a leak, so I put em in quick :-).

I will place a 1" block under the wing tip, even with the inside line of the aileron end. The original wing panel shows an inch under each tip, or two inches with one wing flat on the table. Mine will have that same center panel rise but the tips will be up about another inch each.

Its not much per panel, but enough to give the wing some character, versus looking like a slope racer.

The fuse on these ships have been reinforced by the mfg'r with kevlar and carbon under the saddle to prevent bolt-on-wing-twist-and-tear.

The stab mount is simply a flat spot which will lend it self nicely to bolt on stab and vertical. Its the same for either the Vtail (ugh) or the Xtail version.

That way I can transport it easily should I get nuts and decide to actually fly a 2m event, but more importantly so that I can adjust incidence easily by shimming.
By the way, this wing is the blended 7037 version, noted by the turned up tips, the new First Plus has an M06 foil (cleaner) and a round carbon joiner system. This version uses the blade system, either works fine.
Take a look!
Gordy

[szastoupil]

This virtually looks like an Art Hobby Velvia. I wonder what the main differences are? I'm not sure if the Velvia has a joiner box? I'll watching your final impressions after flying it.

I guess that I'll answer my own question. Missed some information on the Velvia and just found this "Reinforced wings for superb strength have box cross-section spar built of black poplar wrapped in KEVLAR thread."

Sorry, thread is not about the art hobby glider.

Scott

[Gordysoar]

I re read Klaus' tips and tonite decided to get the wing bolt hard point blocks shaped and the wing foam pockets opened up for them.

The kit comes with 4 - 3/4" square by 1" long (approx) hard wood chunks to use inside the wing skin hard points for the wing bolts. I basically decided on the positions, matched both wing roots and co-marked the skins for the positions. Then I traced the curve onto the blocks by holding the end of the blocks against the roots of the wing panels. It doesn't have to be that exact because you will glue them in with some splooge anyway (expoxy with filler).

The front ones I used a disc sander to shape them down to the trace lines, the rear ones I used a band saw to remove the excess bulk then use the disc sander to trim them down the rest of the way.

In the photos you can see the dual joiner box I made by using another set of brass tubing and steel joiner that a friend had from some other kit. I glued the two brass pieces together with some thin CA after sanding both for a good contact. The wooden joiner box in the wing panels have just enough from for the dual brass receivers, snug but the assembly fits.

The plan calls for gluing the steel joiner into one panel using a lot of splooge. I hate the idea of having to have those steel joiners sticking out all the time when the wing is apart, and thought about getting some more brass to install into the other panel so that I could remove the steel joiners but I think it would cause excesss slop, so will just glue them in as per plan....but the two instead of just the one.

The reason behind having two is to reduce the forward flex during a doink landing, and by that reduce the stress on the rear mounting bolts...and because I wanted to :-).

The kit contains some spare wing sheeting wood to be used to cap the root ends after the hardpoints etc are installed. I stood the wing panels on the wood capping material and traced the airfoil for both then used a new Xacto blade 'trace' them out. I then laid them on the end of the wing roots and marked where the hard points will be and the joiner box. The wing servo wires will exit near the caps but out the bottom.

The instructions talk about pusing the foam in around the edges of the sheeting, creating a moat for a line of splooge so that the top sheeting and the caps are connected by more than just the end grain of the sheeting to the caps. Pretty good idea.

So far this all took me about 40mins. Its only about 35 degrees and damp, and I'm doing this in my garage shop, so not real motivated to start gluing things.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I want to get everything done on the roots, before I join the tip panels with their dihedral. That way I am working with very short panels and less likely to be dinging or bumping etc.

Take a look.
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

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Klaus' articles mentioned the stab and rudder potential for flutter and the stock hinges pulling out of the wood...so I took a closer look at them.

They are just balsa and pretty thin at their trailing edges, so very flexible.

Not good for competition use for sure. 2m's tend to be ballistic on launches now days, so some extra consideration will be spent on these two pieces.

The vertical comes with two brass inserts buried into the balsa end grain of the vertical, then sandwiched between to pieces of triangle stock then the bottom is capped with a piece of 1/64" ply. A pretty good set up....except for the wood around the blind nuts. I will likely drill in thru the triangle stock, on either side of the brass inserts, then wick in some more CA...or maybe push in some resin...I'll have to think about it some.

The more important thing will be to stiffen those trailing edge areas of the rudder. You can see I was able to bend it very easily with a very slight amount of force. I don't want to glass it, because it will add weight in the worst possible place for avoiding flutter. So likey I will cap the bottom with some horizontal grain balsa, and may score a slot into the middle of the rudder, the glue in a piece of carbon pushrod as a stiffener.

The horizontal is a different matter. The whole stab is very twistable. I think the only fix for it will be to use very thin glass cloth on its outside. I have done this before, using CA to laminate the cloth down instead of resin. I first give the glass a light coat of 3m, and the stab surface, very light. The lay the coth on and wipe it smooth with a credit card, insuring there are no wrinkles. Then just squeege some CA into the cloth till its completely coated.

I use a piece of glass underneath to insure it lay's flat while I am doing this.

I don't want to use covering on this ship, likely I'll use varnish and spray can paint for accents.

Maybe more tomorrow, but I have to catch a flight to California for the week...its been too long since I have flown my sailplanes...5 days!
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

I thought the First looks like a slope racer, so I the hedral should give it some character and some of the good ole pendulum effect for some more relaxed flying...and likely a bit of groove during the landing approach.

Plus it might keep those wood wing tips off the ground too ;-).

Barry Kennedy took a moment to measure the newest version of the new gorgeous Sprite 2m (mini supra).

He assembled the wing, then laid one inner panel flat on a table, then measured the height of the other inboard panel at the break. 3/4"

Then he laid that wing's inboard panel flat and measure the height at the tip,
1 1/2".

The Sprite doesn't have the curled tips of the First, so I measured mine at the end of the aileron, the tips curl up at about that point, so close enough.

Over all I end up with 2 1/2" at that point where the original straight wing is set with only 1".

I mocked it up with some tape and I have to tell you....it looks just right!

Very nice, and while it sounds like a bunch, mounted on the fuse, it really looks like a very small amount. RES 2ms aim for about 5" at the tip, so this should give some roll with rudder, but not too much.

In any case, its right in line with my goal of having some fun personalizing this plane.

By the way Doug, the surfaces are pre-hinge with live hinges set into the wood vertical and horizontal....so no need for covering...and no slop!

If I didn't mention it the stab and rudder are pre shaped, airfoild and the vertical has a base with triangle stock the base and capped with a piece of light ply... already on and threaded metal inserts buried inside for the mounting bolts, and holes drilled thru the horizontal!

The kit mfg'r really does a lot of work for you.

You do have to finish cutting the flaps and ailerons off, I just used the prescribed slots in the skins, free handing with a new Xacto blade to finish getting the off.

NOTE! The joints are already pre-capped with balsa! So when you cut them loose, take some extra care to work your blade all the way thru to the hinge line at the breaks...or you will end up chipping the ends of the balsa caps when you think you have everything cut.


Gordy

[Gordysoar]

A competition plane is not done till the servos are in and ready. So all the added things I am doing to the air frame won't help it if the pushrod install adds any flex.
Since the balsa surfaces are already soft and flexy, any thing in the pushrods to the servo flex make it a piece of crap, versus a sharp tool for task flying.

This past summer I was at a contest and a pilot was futzing with his elevator setting while hooked to the winch line, he'd been complaining that he just couldn't get a good laucn and the model was all over the place during hard launches.

He asked if I could help with his radio set up.... I had been watching the plane launch, so I asked him to just hold full up elevator for a minute? He was confused, thinking that I was going to do some programming to fix the launch....but I walked over, put my finger tip on the trailing edge of his elevator and was able to deflect it to full DOWN from full up with almost no r pressure!

Then I said, there I fixed your launch :-). You could bowing in his pushrods, etc when I pushed down on the trailing edge.

During a competition launch, the gods of air are pushing down a lot harder on the trailing edge of your elevator than I did.

If you find that you have some elevator launch pre-set, then you have a poor tow hook location or flexing in your elevator pushrod (or flap linkages).

You should never have any airspeed related pre sets for launch. No up, no down... The proper launch set up is done in this order. Set the tow hook with no flap or elevator pre sets. Once you get a good steep launch, then add some launch flap.

Gordy

[bundyglida]

Hi there, this thread caught my eye, as I maidened a first plus for a friend last week.
The first difference I noticed, is that you have the steel/brass wing joiner setup, as I do in the 2 channel first....VERY STRONG.

My friends First+ came with a carbon joiner, we will get to this.

The first few flights were great, a little launch flap help as it was 'tapped up the line of the winch.
Now here is a big difference between his and mine, my Fist 2ch, can be launched flat out on my F3B winch, Myfriend tried to give his + a stiffer launch, and the carbon joiner snapped almost instantly, and you can imagine the rest....
Hopefully the original joiner system will work well for you, all I know is that the carbon does not!
Dale

[becsta]

I've got a First+ (probably one of the first in Australia too...), and modified it to include flaps. Nowadays, it comes with the flaps marked out. I had to cut and face the flaps even... That must have been over two years ago now, I think.

If you're interested, my pictorial "diary" is at:

http://www.becsta.com/gallery/v/firstplusbuild/

It's a good flyer, so long as you fly it at speed. Mine was built with not enough dihedral, and suffers in the turns as a result.

A couple of things:

* Cut all of the control surface hinges, and redo them in whatever way you're comfortable with (including the elevator and rudder). The pre-made ones are way too weak, and will break.

* Glue the elevator and rudder to the fuse. It's a bit more painful to transport the plane, but I wouldn't trust the hold-down of the rudder.

Cheers,
- bec

[Gordysoar]

2m class has almost disappeared in the USA and its tended to always be full house, pedal to the metal type airframes. Bagged wings for the most part.

One of the most popular was/is the Duck, its not really a kit but shows up on occassion as a kit, from sources in Michigan. Super wide chord and fairly heavy....but flies well, again...full house.

The Organic 2m from Vladimir Models pretty much took over the field for the waning years of the class, and a few others popped up a long the way but didn't stick around...because of the lack of avaiable events I think...and 3m planes are more interesting to fly.

I got the First+ because our local 12year old phenom (Finished with LSF4 and has 5 major contest wins under his belt in Juniors) got a First + and had some luck with it. It is the V tail version....

I got to fly it a few weeks back and decided with some tuning it would be a decent 2m (and the fact that I'd sold my 2m a year or two before so didn't have one in case brain fever hit me and would need a 2m for something.)

The first thing I noticed was that the stabs were too flexible and the wing was too flat for it to be reliable on launches and enjoyable to fly.

We'd all had blade joiner planes in the past and found that they tended to spring forward on spot landings, so since there was enough room in the joiner box to fit two side by side, that's what we've done. No hassle can't hurt, even if not needed.

The flat wing thing I talk about in other comments but mostly I didn't like the look of it, so that's why I chopped the wings to add some form and function.

I've pulled on the hinge materials and it seems pretty tight but I'll heed your suggestions there by adding a strip of good thin hinge tape.

I'm going to put some lite glass over the horizontal stab and some strips of glass to tie the vertical to the brass inserts and base too.

I think that this is one heck of a good value, and allows the modeler to personalize it some too. Makes it that much more fun.

I'll keep the entries coming as I accomplish things...I travel a lot so will be gone to the beaches of Florida and New Orleans over the next few weeks...so not much will get done. And we have a few inches of snow here in Kentucky today :-(.

Thanks again for the link on your build!
Gordy

[wsnowfall]

some once told me friends did not let friends fly 2M

i rather have my V8 now:D

bill

[target]

Hey Gordy, just saw this.

On the tail of one of my very light planes, I made a "shear web" with (2) 1/8" aluminum tubes between three end-grain balsa sheets, with 3/4oz glass on a bias on either side. This went in the fuse between top and bottom, and then two long 2-56 machine screws went through the tubes into the tail, where blind nuts were installed on a piece of trinangular balsa in the v-tails' valley...

It all workes really well, and is very strong and light. Glad I made this mod on my plane.

Sorry, no picture.

Chris "Target" Behm

[Gordysoar]

Hi Bill,
Yes friends do not let friends fly 2m, but this thread is about building a 2m not flying, besides everyone needs to 'own' a 2m, buy why bother flying it when you can fly a 3m?:-)

Thanks for the tips Chris. I've scratched a few ships in my time and an avid reader of our mags too...so I understand your system. Its the best way to do it.

This kit comes with brass threaded inserts in the vertical (Xtail) the vertical is capped on each bottom edge with triangle stock which also houses the inserts, then a piece of poplar caps the bottom of all three pieces and the inserts.

Likely this is just fine for fun flying but for contest winch launches and taking into considerations weather/wind conditions, apparently its a gamble to rely on it.

I'll likely use a pin to sieve the triangle stock and wood around the inserts and toward the bottom cap to add some CA strength, then a bit of light glass to tie things together a bit more securely. Not at that point yet.

Thanks for the suggestions, all are welcome!

Gordy
cold in Kentucky

[wsnowfall]

there are some good 2m that are available. ray hayes has the little bird series. art hobby has some nice competetion level planes at reasonable prices.

harder if not impossible to find is drela's Aegea and the illustrious Duck, which is heavy but great for windy midwestern weather.

i just finished a foamy 2m Defiant from nesail for buddybox flying at the slope or learning the winch. coroplast tail feathers.

the aspire from hanger nine is being sold as a electric, but the orginal was always used by DARTS as a training sailplane. a nose cone could be put on front and forget that crappy brushed engine. i buy the plane's replacement parts for a $100. it flies well

for comp at a low price, i recommend art hobby as a good starting point.

gordy, younger pilots have the "eyes" to see 2m planes.

in terms of dollars, size, and ability 2m is not as bad as may appear.

i would go with the oly 3 if i was not limited by 2m and didnot want to go all the way up.

depends on needs and goals. some of the hlg come with hooks. can fly nearby at the schoolyard.


bill

[Gordysoar]

If you want to drag out wood kits to build, I guess you could find plenty, even Genital Ladies.

But they are fun fly airplanes...at best. Ducks are in the class of the Sprite (2m Supra)....because of price and performance...and it doesn't take wind for Ducks to dominate. That's just propogating the old myth about weight being 'important' or a disadvantage.

The Sharon 3m dominated USA TD for about 6 years, or from the day it got its X tail....and she weighs closer to 90ozs than the Supra's 60 some.

There are certainly 2m toys and pleasure day soaring kits, but as a class for competition, planes just don't exist in a price performance range selection.

Art Hobbies and the First+ are close enough to be in the same class. If tweaked as I am doing, they can be a serious competition ship, except for one shortcoming....fixed stab.

Just a reminder, I'm building the First because I sold my 2m a few years back, but more because I HAVE to have a building project each season to get that out of my system each year.

The hedral change will enhance the flying, but it will far more enhance its looks.

So quit typing off topic whines about 2m class, get your First or Art hobby 2m out and start adding to this build thread! ;-)

Gordy
Orlando soaring tomorrow, Pensacola soaring Sunday...then off to New Orleans to fly with Louisiana's top TD Champion. Paul Perret you?

[szastoupil]

I don't think Bill will be asking any more questions soon. :) Maybe he misunderstood the comment on 2m models available that are high performance competition level ships. Anyway....

Gordy, care to elaborate on your comment about the removable tail being a shortcoming? My assumption it would be preferable to have a removable tail for traveling purposes.

Scott

[Gavin Trussell]

Two m's rule . On thoes days that I dont want to drag out the winch and just a highstart. Granted the 3 meter's are great but alot of trouble if you only have an hour or so. Our club MOSS has been competing with the Great Planes Vista for a year and it has turned out to be cut throat comp. 6 highstarts and about 11 planes competing every sunday (whats not to like) and now the Darts club is gona join in . 2 meter is coming back strong.
P.S. removable tails dont suck

Gavin

[Gordysoar]

Not sure where I implied that removalble tails are bad, because in fact they are Critical for transport, so I am totally for removable tails.

And Bill Snow is a great guy who is becoming very active in LSF this season and has a very nice selection of sailplanes for the tasks also. We've talked about the 2m topic prior to me taking on this project...and with exception of
Gavin's group of one design competitions, bigger ships are always better and more fun.

Glad to hear you guys are doing it. What kind of tasks, and landings for your Vista Comps?
Gordy

[Gavin Trussell]

Tasks are easy , Time is set by the cd(usually someone not flying ).4 to 5 min the norm and the landing is with a tape about 10 foot long.We are going to switch to hula hoops this year (any part of the plane in). So the points go like this ,4 high starts out the round is worth 4 points + a point for your landing if you make it. 5 high starts 5 points +1 langing and so on.the first one down not making the time is given one point ,the second two points and so on, If everyone makes it everyone gets max and the landings decide .we fly 4 to 5 rounds maby more if I am not winning and start complaining. The funny thing is we have never had a tie that i can remember.
Gavin

[wsnowfall]

going away, give me a break. gordy is an acquired taste.

i also got my gordy shots along with cold shot, just giving him some grief for he never talks about 2m as worthy of anything. buildin vs flyin,? a very fine distinction, gordy.

for comp i have a duck and a Sisu C and perhaps an aegea. my take was for entry into 2m there are a number of other 2m that are easy and fun, not necessarily nats level. that was only reason for the post.

did not know about the vista contest. i thought you guys were having fun flies with the multiplex easy gliders from past emails, have not seen mention of it on email reminders. i am on the columbus list server that tom nagel sends out. i have flown at the fairgrounds, (deep mud the last time) and at the resevoir site (extremly hot last august and the contest was cancelled, i never had enough bars to get the memo. never seen anyone at either. i have not been to the new site south of columbus. Have also flown south of newark at the high school with Don. he told me that the Aspire use to be the 2m ship for columbus or dayton. i have been trying to hook up at the slope in newark, the only problem is that a sw wind is also good for us in cleveland.

gordy as to building, i working on my Challenger, going for big woodie.

[Gordysoar]

Hi Gavin,

Don't leave the graduated tape. The idea of the Vista challenge is to get guys involved and likely just for everyone to have fun. Stay with a graduated tape...or you will end up with my kind of landings...."the sound of a screen door slamming". :-(

And wooden planes can't take that kind of task. You will see all of the unlimited etc contests getting rid of hula hoop style gymnastic landings this season. They used to be a fun challenge and the drove fuselage durability development to a rediculously good level, but with the economy and the cost of models and the fact that no one improves their piloting skills with landings that don't provide a graduated feedback...well. Good by to Pac Man, Pies, Ladder Boxes and hula hoop rings which offer gump volumes of points..15, 30, 45 etc for the most controlled crashes.

Again...I loved those kind of challenges...but for all the reasons mentioned, my new years resolution this year is no contests with out graduated runway or tape landings for me...and a lot of top guys feel the same.

So make your pilots actually pilot for points. Any piece in the ring for points should embarrass anyone participating. Some how those guys managed homes, jobs, cars, and even got servos hooked up in their Vistas, they can learn to be pilots too.

Our 12 year old Lee has 8+ LSF 5 contest wins under his it bitty belt, that means average landing points of 96+ for the year of Nationals, Masters etc.

I doubt your Vista challenge doesn't have to be that 'special'. ;-)
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

This isn't your usual RC Groups grope, its about building mods into the First 2m, so try to stay on the thread, the GordySoar is an idiot thread can be found...well most other places on RC Groups :-).

Gordy
Pensacola this week, I flew yesterday you?
New Orleans next week
Then back to my darling First + 2m project ;-)

[Bernd Brunner]

Gordy, i´ve seen that the First+ will be produced with different airfoils. What´s on your plane?

Bernd

[Gavin Trussell]

Gordy This got crazy , didnt want to ruffel feathers, I love the thread you started and cant wait to se it finished. I am also working on a composite 2mater of my own design . Pod mold and wing are done. Good luck on this project ,Ill be reading GAVIN

P.S. A pic of my pod plug

[kkw]

Gordy, i´ve seen that the First+ will be produced with different airfoils. What´s on your plane?

Bernd

Bernd, where did you see this? The First+ is produced with the blended S7037/S7012 airfoil and the MG-06 airfoil. Spoke with Blejzyk the other day, and he is tempted to just remain with the blended airfoil, which has upturned tips and ailerons only.
Again, where did you hear this information.

Klaus Weiss
www.airsportsrc.com.au

[Gordysoar]

The two kits left are at Barry's (I think they are there yet) have the blended foil.

I love the look of that fuse pod, but as you already know, a pod is a long ways away from being a fuselage.

I'm wondering, why a 2m? Are you planning on selling them? If so, to who?

Who's wing?

Keep at it, just wondering. :-).
Gordy
And don't worry about stirring things, we are grown up tough men, we can take it :-)...well Bill can, I'm far more sensitive than he is!

[Gavin Trussell]

I build alot of handlaunch stuff and just got into 3meter this year and bought about ten planes (i think i have a problem) pike supra and so on ,So a two meter is just the next thing to design and build, I cant fund a Sprite right now and cant come across a Duck so ill build them, Mold is already done and two tails are to be tested v and cross .I cut cores for two wings with two different spars.So as for along way away ,We will see
Gavin

[dion9146]

Gordy,

Can't wait to see the First+ in person, but I think your next build should be a Vista and we can start our contest this Summer! ;)

Don't come back to the Ville anytime soon....it's cold and snowy and there was a run on milk and bread at the store today.....

Dion

[wsnowfall]

gordy

where has a thread ever been on topic here in rc groups? just look at the chryallis thread.

one just expects outrageous thoughts, fight starters, and strong points of views from the gordysoar. sorry i did not realize your were focused on a build thread only. should have used a peusdom :D

also, i thought you just bought or assembled moldies. i can see you with a collapsable building board in a hotel room on your sandy travels.

i never heard of this plane before on any threads recommending 2m planes. seems it from downunder. what do they know :cool: :rolleyes: no nasty responses, i have an aussie building stab carbon v's for all my drela type planes. thanks thor.

bill

[Rich Burnoski]

Gordy,,,, your making the building of this fantastic model look so easy,,, and by building it with one hand tied behind your back , and a patch over your good eye,,,,,,,,,, that I might have to take the 2 arf kits I have for sale in the classifieds and have you,,,,,,, I mean ,, build them myself just for the pure fun!

Thermals, Richard

ps,,, someone buy these planes and build them so you can beat up on your 2-meter friends!

[Bernd Brunner]

Klaus,

i think i´ve seen it on your homepage. I´m wondering whether "different" is the wrong word?? I mentioned the 7037/7012 and the wing with the MG-06. I asked, because i´ve build my own 2m plane using a modified MG-06. And i love the MG-06!

Bernd

[Gordysoar]

Home to Louisville this week, but broken trees are a mess in my yard and its been cold and raining, so only got to install the joiner rod into one wing panel.

I put a 1" block under the center panel wing half and the other side flat, this approximates the dihedral of one inch under each tip as shown in the plans.
Figured it was easier to do this while the wing tips were still off.

I sanded the bevels on the surfaces for both flaps and ailerons too.

Next is to glue in the brass joiner box into the other half. Then likely I'll drill the wing hold down bolt holes in the wing and then install an adjustable tow hook, and the fuse bolt hole blocks. Once that is done, then I'll join the tips to the center panels, and their added hedral.

[Gordysoar]

It was cold but the resin set! The wings with added hedral cut in...done!
Looking at the panels by themselves, it doesn't look like much, but it took the 1" under each panel to 2" under each panel tip.

Mounted on the plane it just gives it a more graceful look and likely a lot smoother flying and turning. Should help groove landings too!

I was very careful to put the center panels on a flat surface, the put a car battery on both to hold them flat...didn't wany any twist happening during the cure. I used a 1" high wood block under each tip at the ends of the ailerons openings to set the tip hedral. Then just to be sure I measured both at the curled tips and at that inside joint.

I'll finish the joints on the outside with some 1/2ounce glass strips 3/4" wide wraped around the outside, so that there is a bond inside and out to the Poplar skins. Probably over kill but doesn't add much weight and provides some piece of mind. I'll also be wrapping the roots with some of the 1/2oz glass 1" wide to cap the skins over the hardwood bolt blocks buried under the skins.

I also glued in the wing mounting blocks into the fuse wing saddle since I had some resin left over. No holes drill yet but glued in to the positions indicated on the plans, matching the hardwood blocks in the wing roots.

My next step will be to cover the horizontal stab with 1/2ounce glass and the elevator too to stiffen those surfaces. I want this thing to launch like a competition 2m :-).

Take a look at the photos.
Gordy
Two Day contest in Orlando this weekend! Florida Keys tonite

[kkw]

Gordy.
when it comes time to launch, I hope you realise that the strength of the wing joiner will be somewhat less than the First. In our 2m comps, the First takes a two man reflex tow no probs at all. I have seen Sagitta's, Spirits, Prophets etc all blow up on a similar launch. Just be a little careful until you know how much the joiner can take. The First also launches on our F3b winches with no sign of the wings being overstressed. As you can see in the attached pic, the towmen are starting to put some real tension on the line. This is the turnaround pulley and two more with the towmen. You engineers can work out the forces :)

[atmosteve]

Its true, I have tried in vain to destroy Bundyglida's First on a beefy histart and a winch in up to 15 knots of headwind, it just takes it all and laughs at you, amazing 2m glider. Bundy has described to me how he has seen a new First+ fold at the CF joiner under a normal stress F3b winch.

[Gordysoar]

Hi Guys,

Back from winning a two day TD contest in Orlando Florida! Its been raining in Louisville Kentucky and cold, so I haven't done much on the plane, but I did get the hedral joints capped with 3/4" strips of light glass.

Definitely needed it, if not for launch strength, for just plain durability. I put some bend pressure on one wing and didn't like the feel, so that confirmed my plane to cap the joints with some glass on the outside.

I also got two coats of varnish on them to seal the wood, and did the same with the surfaces....which all warped some while cut loose. :-(

I have them sitting on the bench with a weight bending them back the other way....so will leave them like that for a week or so till I can get back to building.

The most important thing I did was to work on the horizontal and elevator and the rudder/mount.

I decided that the elevator was too flexible to give the best possible launch, so I layed light glass on both the horizontal and the elevator, both sides.

I did the old spray them with 3m contact cement, and the glass cloth I had cut for all sides, then I wiped the glass cloth on to the surfaces, to insure that the cloth would stay smooth with out having to bag them.

Once they were on and smooth, I put on a rubber glove, then wiped thin CA on to the glass, instead of using resin. That worked great, I then lightly sanded all the surfaces, then wiped on another coat of thin CA. Finally I sanded the edges smooth...as well as a light sanding of all the cloth surfaces.

Likely I will use the new wather based Krylon sold in spray cans to accent the wood, or maybe lightly paint the wing and stabs. I have decided against using covering...doesn't make sense to add the weight an hassle.

The rudder was a concern since the balsa is very flexy at the trailing edge. It doesn't need to be all that stiff but this was too rubbery. I put a 1/8" piiece of hardwood under the bottom edge of the rudder as a stiffener, that helped a lot! Then coated the balsa with CA. I did both the vertical and the rudder wood, sanded then wiped on another layer of CA.

I had read about the blind nuts pulling out of the vertical so I did the 3m thing on it too, and wrapped the 1/2oz glass around the base, up onto the triangle stock and a bit onto the vertical to tie the whole base together to the vertical.

Hard to see the glass on the horizontal but you can see the glass at the base of the Vertical and the hardwood at the base of the rudder.

It will continue....
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

Hi Guys,

Okay I got the wing servos extension wires soldered on, I routed out the servo holes using a Dremel Router base set to the exact depth of each servo, then I masked off the openings and potted the servos into the foam.

IF you are not familar with "potting" servos into a foam wing, the idea is to create a molded "pocket" to firmly hold the servos from moving around in the foam. You mix up some splooge of epoxy and filler, cut some Saran Wrap into 2" squares to act as condoms for the servos, then after masking the holes with masking tape, you coat the inside and bottom with a generous coat of the splooge. Then lay the Saran wrap over the holes and press the servos into the splooge. Wipe away the excess epoxy and let them sit.

Once the epoxy is cured, you can pop the servos out of their molded pockets, a bit of tape over the top of the servos will hold them snug, with no movement of any kind.

The next thing I found was that the rudder linkage connection was going to be a challenge. The rudder starts way up on the vertical and the triangle stock used to strengthen the vertical's base on each side, makes using the snake pushrod supplied a non-option as far as I am concerned. After all Rudder is the one surface capable of extending your flight time by more than a minute..so I want it working with authority. As opposed to the pushrod flexing allowing the rudder to blow back to center.

I bent a piece of music wire and notched the rudder to accept it. Its offset of center but that allowed me to drop through the elevator and line up the pushrod along one inner side of the tail boom. And room for the elevator pushrod too. Since my tails are removable, I want the linkages to be easy to connect. Likely I will put a horn on the elevator with a barrel type clevis, so that when I mount the elevator, the pushrod will slide into and off of the pushrod only have to use the barrel's retaining screw to lock the pushrod or release it.

Its not my best effort but one that was expediant and should work fine.

I didn't glass the vertical and its a lot more flexible than I'd hoped. I might end up glassing before I paint.

You can see the hardwood stiffener under the base of the balsa rudder. That really stiffened up the tailing edge of the rudder!

The mounting screws sent a long with the kit to mount the stab are about 1/4" short if you have the heads outside of the bottom of the fuse tail boom as I have done, but I had some in my hardware collection so no worries. I glued in some carbon arrow shaft to connect the top of the tail boom vertical mount to the bottom. The screws go thru the carbon tube..so no worries about compression and the stiffness added to that thing tail boom glass was really great.

Sure I added weight that will need more lead in the nose, but TD ships need to be durable enough to last a season of hard flying...this one will be :-)

I'm going to use two 4 pin Deans sockets in the roots of each wing to make the servo connections, I'll have the mating males resting inside a hole in the wing saddle. Not automatic but simple...and I have the Deans plugs!

I'm still pretty convinced that I am going to paint instead of cover. I put the third coat of varnish on all the surfaces tonight also. Likely I'll mist coat black on the bottom, or maybe bright red. With two bold white stripes under one wing panel...as I have found that works best for "seeing" the model up high.

I have also decide to use silicone glue "spot" hinges on the wing surfaces to keep them true instead of relying on just hinge tape, and will use thin wing tape for the whole hinge line.

More as I get it done. Should be a pretty good ship!
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

Here's a photo of the wing servo pockets splooged. Pretty simple process, and it makes the servos rock solid in a foam core wing. No need for gluing the servos in. Once the splooge is hardened, the servo can be popped out of the pockets.

Without this method, the foam and wood skin allows the servos to move, and the surfaces to be very sloppy. Kind of stupid to have digital servos for centering and holding power when the entire servo can rock in their holes.

I grease the servo wire coming out of the servo with some silicone glue from Radio Shack to help protect the wires from being glued in. If you have to replace the servo you will need to be able to access some of the wire.

I also have photos of the new micro servos from HobbyClub. 10mm thin, super powered, great gear box...but untested. Small enough for DLGs but way over powered. About the same size as the HS55 but thinner.

I varnished all the wood parts, even varnished the glass on the horizontal stab as a filler. Everything was lightly sanded first, then sanded between coats. I used Krylon paint over the varnished parts. And will likely do some white accents and maybe some small blue bits too.

I glued in the rudder pushrod, opting to use a carbon tube with a carbon pushrod inside, this was heavier, but there was a trade off on weight since it doesn't need to have glue along its length, just at the very back exit area and up near the fire wall. I used Goop to secure it in the back and very close to the rudder horn to keep as much slop out of the rudder as possible.

I'll likely just use a carbon pushrod for the elevator with a teflon outer.

I didn't use threaded inserts for the wing mounting bolts, or any of the wing mounting hardware which looks really cool but is just more crap. Instead I used the ply blocks supplied (had to be shaped to fit under the wing saddle in the fuse) secured with a mix of filler and epoxy. I drilled the holes in the wing thru the hardwood blocks supplied and glued inside the wing as shown on the plan. Then I put two way tape on the wing saddle, joined the wing panels and pressed the wing on to the wing saddle tape. This held it pretty secure while I drilled pilot holes for a 10/24 threaded tap.

I then just threaded the holes in the wood mounting blocks. I wicked thin CA into the thread holes to hard the threads, then ran the tap through one more time. I then coated plastic screws with some silcone grease and ran them into their holes. Plenty strong and simple.

Gordy

[Gordysoar]

Okay,
The wings:
The surfaces have to be mounted. I am going to use Silicone rubber hinges and hinge tape. The silicone is just a fine line at the very edge of the surface hinge area...to take any loads off the tape. You have to be careful not to make it too thick or the servos can be over worked, the hinge too stiff.
Horns need to be glued into each surface and the linkages to the servos made and installed.

4 pin Deans sockets plugs soldered on to the servo wires and then the Deans socket plugs epoxied into the notch at the wing root, facing down toward the saddle. That way all I'll have to do to connect is plug the male Deans into each wing panel.

The Fuselage:
I already installed the tow hook. I didn't use the supplied hook because I had a spare adjustable hook from Kennedy Composite (Organic Hook) that fit perfectly and will allow me some adjustment options. The plan calls for a CG at 81mm but likely it will end up at 95mm, so I put the hook in so that I have a range between the two...and not impossible to tear it out if I got it wrong.
The Elevator pushrod housing installed.
The rudder and elevator servo mounting done in the nose cone.
The Rx to wing plug harness made.
A battery pack built up.
This will have a JR DSM 2.4 system in it. No special installed needed since the fuse is 2.4 friendly.

[atmosteve]

Gordy, thanks for all the pics and build details, great thread!!
Steve.

[Gordysoar]

This is a 'fixed' stab....argh!
That means dealing with incidence to get the model straight.

You can't set the balance to have the model tell the truth about lift and sink, if you have incidence in the stab.

Guys all around the world have been lead to think that (contest sailplane) CG is some mystical spot to be dove at or that a model should be tuned to the pilots 'liking' or 'feel'....I get a kick out of the guy who does this to his new expensive super model....get it to feel just like the loser piece of crap he just got rid of...instead of becoming the pilot the new plane deserves. :-)

But in fact the only reason to balance a sailplane is to get it to help you read air. No not to read air for you...not to get some extra efficiency out of the airfoil, not to protect lazy pilots by adding some degree of 'stability)...but to get the incidence out. If you have stab incidence, then the model will lie to you...you won't only be alone in the battle but your model will be lying about lift and sink. Since airspeed empowered tail feathers and tail feathers are the only thing that can direct the sailplane's nose then instead of lift and sink it will indicate airspeed changes. model speeds up, the nose goes up, model slows down the nose drops.

At least thats why a bolt on stab is so important, more than just for transport. You can shim the stab to zero, then pull all that 'stablizing' (hobbling) lead out of the nose.

So in the What's Left List will be to set the incidence of the stab to the wing.
and finding the balance point.

Most of that process has to be done at the field, since our models don't spend much time teetering on pegs on the bench...they fly...so some airspeed needed for this part :-)
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

I painted the wing bottoms red...and thought I painted the surface bottom red too, but I painted half on the wrong side so now both sides of the surfaces will be red, the top I want to leave gloss wood, but the sufaces will now be the 'accent' :-)

I did a test silicone hinge on one aileron last nite but the silicone glue didn't bond very well to the paint. So I took some really course sand paper to the edges of everything and will try it again.

I taped the aileron on to the wing with masking tape to hold its alignment, the masked along both of the adjoining edges, then wiped some silicone down into the gap to make the hinge. Just needs to a very small bead of silicone to do what I want...that is to take the flexing loads off the hinge tape...to keep it from delaming next to the gap and getting sloppy.

I'l be on the beaches for the next two weeks so won't be able to continue much after Sunday. But I'll try to do it again. I might use Goop since it is stickier, but you really need to start with a fresh tube, so it doesn't skin as soon as you push some out of the tube.

Gordy

[Gordysoar]

Hi guys,

I got these done before I left for Florida this week. 4 pin Deans sockets will be glued into the wing root ribs with 5min epoxy and filler. That way I'll have to do is plug in the fuse wiring harness to each socket. Of course they will be color coded to make it easy to match up.
I removed a bunch of foam at this spot to receive the excess wire.
Gordy

[Gordysoar]

It was one of those LSF 2 hour kind of days, warm dry following cool wet.

Light breezes and lots of hawks and buzzards.

I had to change the rudder servo system because that torque rod idea was like trying to hold it with a stick of rubber. it would have fluttered a bunch.

So I cut into the triangle stock of the vertical, and inset an HS55 servo, with a direct linkage to a horn.
I then dug out the pushrod housing and servo that was controlling the rudder.
In the end it was lighter to have the servo back there and it was rock solid.

After my usual regime of hand tosses to find the balance point for TD contest work, and setting the throws, mixes etc. I put it up a few times to fine tune the tow hook location and launch flap setting.

I put two 10 minute flights on the countdown Taking Timer and I have to say that it flies as good as any 2m I have flown in my life.

After I landed the second time, it hit me...what the heck am I doing wasting flying time on the field playing with a 2m? Flying one again only reminded me what a waste of time class of airplane 2m really is.

It has none of the grace of a good DLG or a 3m. They rocket around zooming and darting.

Oh well it was only a build project and the kit is excellent and the plane flies on par with an Organic or some of the $600 moldies. Its easy to assembly and kind of fun too.

The Balance point is 5" measured from the center of the wing saddle rear forward. The Tow hook is 4 7/8" back from the canopy lip.

That is with zero stab incidence. I can't imagine trying to fly it with the balance point recommeded in the plan.

Gordy

[becsta]

Hmm... interesting idea Gordy with the rudder servo. I might have to try that with the rudder servo on my second First 2M glider. I think though that I'll bury the servo completely in the stab, so only the horn and clevis hangs out in the breeze.

- bec

[Gordysoar]

It so small and its only two way taped in place. So you can replace gears if needed at the field. I made the fit pretty snug and wrapped the tape around the ends and bottom. 44 ozs all up in case I forgot to mention that.

Excellent airplane but by the way, I put an extra 1" under each wing tip from the poly break. It really could use 2" under each. It turned dramatically better than the stock version but its still more of a slope racer than a thermal ship.

With the stiffening I did, glassing the stab and soaking the vertical with thin CA and putting a piece of light ply under the bottom edge of the rudder, and of course the direct linkage using the servo, it turns out the rudder is too big.

You can always shave an inch off the back of it, after you fly it. It did like an 1/8" of full span camber in thermals.

I forgot to put some camber pump in with the elevator and that would also add to smoothing out its flight.

The elevator stiffened with CA and a very firm linkage, made it too powerful so I dropped the throw to about 3/8" up and down...a bit less when in thermal mode.

The wing surfaces are wood, and will be warped just don't bother looking too closely at them, its not critical.

The one rule of thumb when it comes to our ships....houses fly just fine in Kansas without digital resolution radios and servos...and without precision settings of the CG. All they need is lift, and its the same for our sailplanes. Find lift, learn what rudder tells us about lift and sink and put the nose on the spot and likely you'll end up with a bunch of LSF5 wins to sell too :-)

Gordy

[Gavin Trussell]

Did you run out of time on thoes rear servos ?

[Gordysoar]

Hi Guys,

I found that the torque rod idea sucked, wayyyyyy too much flex, so I tore our the pushrod housing and rudder servo from the nose, cut the torque tube out of the rudder and installed an HS55 Hitec Servo right into the triangle stock of the vertical, then ran a link directly to the rudder, very solid and simple and actually worked out lighter than the pushrod assembly!

Its clear that the First + is more of a slope airfoil, its very quick in the air.

Cleary now I wish I would have done 2" under each tip, I think it would really make this one heck of a nice flying airplane. As it is, its a very excellent competition 2m.

I decided that Little Lee needed a good 2m for the Nats so I gave it to him. He got it figured out right away and is now spot landing it in every wind direction. Keeping it up isn't much of a problem for him with any ship.

She's really durable, no chance of wings breaking on launch.

I think Barry Kennedy still has a couple if you are needing a fun 2m project.

Gordy