Beyond the visual range

[molenjin]

Hello! I have a simple question - let's say that I want to build an electric glider that would be able to climb higher than I can see it.. i.e. beyond the eye range. I would like to know if there is a commercially available system (and not to pricey) that would be sending me the plane's position (using the GPS) back to the ground so I could see it on my laptop's screen? Something like, I see the map, one dot is my position, the other one is plane's.. incl. its height and current speed, etc.

Is it possible to get a system like this and where?

Thanks..

[air]

Buy OziExplorer (http://www.oziexplorer.com) ($100)

From NewMicros (http://www.newmicros.com) pick up a

USB Zigbee Kit (http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/store/order.cgi?form=prod_detail&part=Zigbee-Kit&id=q7J5qtx3gHY17cGsQQVWaEAB1b2mFoon) $111 and a
Zigbee Carrier Board (http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/store/order.cgi?form=prod_detail&part=XBEE-CARRIER-3.3V&id=q7J5qtx3gHY17cGsQQVWaEAB1b2mFoon) $5



and connect the remote (in the plane) Zigbee modem to a
GPS (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8234) from www.sparkfun.com

and you should be all set.

You'll need to set the baud rate on the Zigbees to match that on the GPS using XCTU and connect up power to the remote Zigbee as well as data from the GPS to the modem obviously.
A 3.3V switching regulator from http://www.dimensionengineering.com may also be helpful to you for powering the GPS and Zigbee in the plane.

Best of luck!

[patrickegan]

What do you plan on using for sense and avoid?

[air]

He's not located in the US & may well be planning on flying somewhere where that's not an issue.

[patrickegan]

It an issue most everywhere including the EU. How's the weather?

[bmw330i]

It an issue most everywhere including the EU. How's the weather?
I laugh every time I see your posts and your avatar...anyone who hasn't seen the movie until you do you may not make the connection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove.
Dr. Strangelove is the avatar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove#Peter_Sellers.27_multiple_roles
...too funny.

[air]

I cant speak for everywhere but here in Ireland there are no restrictions on craft under 1.5Kg, other than that they be flown responsibly aand constructed from wood or other frangible materials.
While I respect your intentions, I think there is a sufficient number of threads already on the legal & safety aspects of UAVs / AP & it only serves to distract when these issues are brought up elsewhere.
The weather here is atrocious at present.

[patrickegan]

Is Ireland are an ICAO member? I don’t believe beyond Visual Line of sight (VLOS) is considered responsible by ICAO

[RolandS888]

What do you plan on using for sense and avoid?

What do you use for sense and avoid ?

[patrickegan]

I don't fly beyond Visual Line of Sight (VLOS)

Yeah, Strangelove is a classic for sure.

[RolandS888]

I don't fly beyond Visual Line of Sight (VLOS)

.

What do you fly in the way of FPV/UAV?
An what do you suggest they use in the way of sense and avoid?

[patrickegan]

Last would be Raven, and there is no viable sense and avoid system. Test are being done, but standards are estimated to be done in 2015.

[rich smith]

It is unfortunate that most FPV/UAV enthusiasts don't understand the difference between AC, FAR, and AMA rule book. Generally AC91-57 is not an issue unless you have GA PPL.

[rich smith]

Do to popular demand (thanks Mike :)) I'd like to re-phrase that as "more of an issue if you have a PPL". Although AC is not law it's true that everybody, not just PPL, will be negatively impacted if a few "abusers" upset the apple cart. Kinda like the 2 seat :censored: heads did with UL 103.

It is unfortunate that most FPV/UAV enthusiasts don't understand the difference between AC, FAR, and AMA rule book. Generally AC91-57 is not an issue unless you have GA PPL.

[tekrunner]

It is unfortunate that most FPV/UAV enthusiasts don't understand the difference between AC, FAR, and AMA rule book. Generally AC91-57 is not an issue unless you have GA PPL.

Spoken like a true bureaucrat, perhaps you should get a job with the FAA. I'm willing to bet 99.9% of people simply use common sense and are safe with the projects and the other 0.1% don't care if what they do is against regulations. So the AC, FAR blablabla are all a waste of energy.

[rich smith]

Wha...? :confused: Bureaucrat? I'm an anarchist. Actually beyond anarchist... a NIHILIST!

In any case you would lose the bet. It's opposite. 99.9% of people don't care if what they do is against regulations and the other 0.1% simply use common sense.

I was merely trying to point out that AC is not law.




Spoken like a true bureaucrat, perhaps you should get a job with the FAA. I'm willing to bet 99.9% of people simply use common sense and are safe with the projects and the other 0.1% don't care if what they do is against regulations. So the AC, FAR blablabla are all a waste of energy.

[patrickegan]

Not if you are looking to build a business or attract investors, then it's all about the FARs :)

[Capt. Crunch]

Sorry, what is AC? EU air regs?

And please refresh me on IACO, thanks,

Crunch

I generally fly 500-1,000 feet (330 meters) above ground level.

[molenjin]

Let's go back to the subject. LVSPark kindly sent me an info on the "Seagull Flight System" from "Eagle Tree":

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Plane/plane.html

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/molenjin/Seagul01.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/molenjin/Seagul02.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/molenjin/Seagul03.jpg

The set + optional GPS module seems to be pretty affordable so I would like to ask if any one has some experience with it. LVSPark said that his experience was quite positive.

[patrickegan]

http://www.icao.int/

The AC
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1ACFC3F689769A56862569E70077C9CC?OpenDocument

[rich smith]

AC (Advisory Circular) is an FAA "suggestion". FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation) is law. Flying over 400' or out of sight violates AC but there is no law against it. If too many people cause trouble there will be a law.

Sorry, what is AC? EU air regs?

And please refresh me on IACO, thanks,

Crunch

I generally fly 500-1,000 feet (330 meters) above ground level.

[patrickegan]

Oh there's a law, 14 CFR part 91

[Gary Mortimer]

You mean http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/interpretiverule.pdf Patrick?

Pilot responsibilities for compliance with air traffic instructions?

The FAA would have to rule RC aircraft needed to communicate?? Or rather there operator??

Perhaps I did'nt find a very good link to that FAR, perhaps you could elaborate.

Cheers

G

[patrickegan]

Gary,
Here is better explanation

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf

[airmcn_3]

Gary,
Here is better explanation

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf


Patrick,

Thank you for that link, you can not spell it out any better then that.

Chris

[molenjin]

Well.. how do you feel about going back to the subject? Thanx.

[Mick Molloy]

Gary,
Here is better explanation

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf
Given he is in Australia not the USA or EU I think Casa part 101 might be a bit more topical.
UAV http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/101/101c01.pdf
Model Aircraft http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/101/101c03.pdf

An Aussie was the altitude record holder for a model glider did it with a banana lounge and big binoculars
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/cooper_fai_altrec_2004.html
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/fai_091103_154-5410_350.jpg

[molenjin]

Hi Mick,

I saw that page before.

On November 9, 2003, Ray Cooper wrote his name into the aeromodelling history books by setting a new world altitude record for an "Electric Propelled, Radio Controlled Aircraft".

At 08:30 Eastern Australian Summer Time Ray flew his "Big Bird" to a height of 2,573 metres (above the launch point and exceeding the previous record by 373 metres) before terminating the flight.

With a GPS system this could be easily beaten..!

[Gary Mortimer]

Eladio went pretty high with his setup...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900927

I have bought products that worked well from him before.

New Product - New OSD - Black Stork - and High altitude record, with video

I want to introduce you a new OSD that have been develop in Spain. We have called it Black Stork OSD

I have been one of the Beta testers and I'm now one of the official distributors. I'm the owner of www.ElectronicaRC.com, we are manufactures and distributors of electronics for FPV and UAV planes.

5 Beta testers have been flight testing this OSD during the last 3 months. During one of the test my brother and me have flight and electric glider equipped with this OSD to 2784 meters high. The altitude record was made during a Spanish FPV meeting in Albacete. This it's Spanish record for an electric F5 plane and I think that second in the World.

Before anybody start with the legal part, I must say that we have an special permission form the Spanish Aerial Federation to attempt this record.

We have now this OSD in stock, and have already sold first units. The OSD it's a full ready to install system and includes everything:

- OSD board
- 50 Amperes current sensor, with cable and Dean's connectors
- EB-85A 5Hz GPS
- 2 cables for connection to RC receiver
- 2 cables for video In/Out
- 1 cable for GPS connection
- 1 cable for video battery input

I think also that price it’s very competitive 130EUR or 200US$ all included.

You have a more detail information of the OSD in our online Store:

www.ElectronicaRC.com

[Gary Mortimer]

Just looked at Ray Coopers site, are the plans available anywhere for that glider??

Looks great.

[Mick Molloy]

I just got my Black stork in the post last week... :)
I think he did have some plans around for the Big bird ... I will have a look....

[Gary Mortimer]

Pity your not closer to Melbourne, because I'd get my mate Chris Shorten to fly you in a balloon so you could follow the aircraft up and back down again.

Has to be much easier than all the equipment!

In fact would that be cheating??

[rich smith]

Oh there's a law, 14 CFR part 91

It's not a law at this time and does not relate to RC beyond visual range.


http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2008-10-28-E8-25608

[rich smith]

Less than a hundred bucks:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2290118

Hello! I have a simple question - let's say that I want to build an electric glider that would be able to climb higher than I can see it.. i.e. beyond the eye range. I would like to know if there is a commercially available system (and not to pricey) that would be sending me the plane's position (using the GPS) back to the ground so I could see it on my laptop's screen? Something like, I see the map, one dot is my position, the other one is plane's.. incl. its height and current speed, etc.

Is it possible to get a system like this and where?

Thanks..

[patrickegan]

you are misinterpreting the CFR

[dante9192]

This thread looked interesting till some ignorants turned it into a BS Law and Regulation "I know more than the previous guy" thread!

The world is bad as it is with real lawyers, lets not make it worst with want to be ones! or open a new thread about aviation law, I bet it will attract a lot of viewers.

[rich smith]

It's "worst" the way some have no clue what a thread is about and moreover nothing to contribute themselves. "ignorants"? Yeah, that sums it up.