which one first ?????

[wilton0]

Im new to the sailplane world!! I have although flown many airplanes.Does anyone suggest a inexpensive VERY good thermaler to start out with,in the ARF family? Thanks guys.I have thermaled my zagi any tips on a better performance set up for it?

[Raymund Reyes]

Wilton0, not sure what you mean by VERY good, as thermalling depends more on the pilot..but if you mean something that can thermal better than a Zagi, I'd recommend the Great Planes Spirit ARF. I have one (kit form though) and I fins it to be an amusing plane.. It's been through quite a bit..flies nicely...but have heard that the ARF versions can be weak at times.
Also, there are some mods which make the spirit better..and also why a kit might be better...rather easy to build if you've got some patience and space:)..but the tips, such as enlarging the vertical stab and rudder area, adjusting the incidence of the horizontal stab, reinforcing the spars with carbon fiber..etc...but I'm getting ahead of myself:D

I'd say a good choice in ARF's would be the Spirit 2m (around a 100 bucks or so)
Since you've flown quite a bit before..and If you've got a computer radio...the Spirit Elite ARF may be for you...its a full house(flaps, ailerons, rudder, elevator) ship with a good airfoil...$139 i think...and has a fiberglass fuselage! but then you'll need six micro servos so it might not become inexpensive:)

Kits would be the Spirit 2M, Gentle Lady, Skybench Lil' Bird 2M, Laser Arts Sovereign, etc $40-100 or so (all two-three channel birds, Rudder Elevator Spoiler)


hope this helps a little and Good luck on your search for thermals

Godspeed and see you on the flipside,
Ray

[BMatthews]

Nothing much to add other than "inexpensive" and "VERY GOOD" don't go hand in hand in the high performance thermal world.

But if all your experience comes from a Zagi then you'll be blown away by the Spirit series. And especially for the price.

If you want "Good" at some expense to the "inexpensive" requirement then there's a lot more options.

The best bang for the buck models all seem to be mostly 2 meter types with the odd 100 inch class model. Check out Hobby Lobby and Northeast Sailplanes for some higher priced spread options.

[Ollie]

WiltonO,

You don't say how you plan to launch. This has an effect on the best choice because of wing strength considerations. You don't say what size servos you have, yet some of the best choices require mini servos.

Thermals come is all sizes and strengths. The best thermalling planes have very light wing loadings so that they can turn tightly while sinking slower than the weak thermal is rising. The easiest planes to thermal have generous dihedral which lowers the pilot workload when thermalling because of improved spiral stability. Off setting the desire for low wing loading is the desire to penetrate back to the field after chasing a thermal down wind. The ballance between the conflicting objectives of low wing loading for thermalling and high wing loading for penetration depends on the maximum wind conditions you want to fly in. This in turn affects the ability to ballast up for windy conditions. That, in turn, affects the wing strength requirements.

If one of your objectives is to learn to work thermals well, then there is no better way than with a discus launched glider. Unfortunately, ARF DLG's and the necessary micro radio gear will set you back several times the cost of a Spirit 2-meter.

You really need to tell us more about your budget, willingness to trade dollars for performance, flying environment and personal objectives in order to get recomendations that fit your personal needs. If you don't yet have well formed ideas of what you want to do, you need to attend several glider club flying sessions to see a variety of things that are possible.

When you don't go into detail about your own personal requirements, then people tend to substitute their own tastes for yours when they recommend.

[jrgospod]

Right on Ollie,
I wanted to learn about thermals so I joined a Glider club and built a foamy two meter (durability) for contests. Then I built “The Bug” for fun. I have learned more about thermals with The Bug than I could have hoped for. It is only a cheep Side Arm Launch that is several (100) classes back from what you have, but it has been fun. For very little cost I have learned a lot and now feel better about the money I will have to spend to move up. I would suggest to you that you make something available like “The Bug” for people that are starting out. You have the ability to design a good, low cost, entry level, SAL; that would get people hooked and makes them repeat customers for your top of the line products. It is hard to risk such a large investment on the top of the line when you are just learning and don’t need the performance. A durable 30-40 inch entry level plane could really expand this segment of the sport.

Thanks!

just my 2c's

[leverick]

I'm with Ollie on this one but I took the inverse approach. I bought a spirit 2 meter ARF to learn on and joined a local club. I learned a tremendous amount from the local club sailplane pilots. Thermalling skills take time, I mean lots of time, to develop in terms of getting efficient. Efficent thermal flight skills are a combination of knowledge (gained from AIR TIME) about thermals and your planes abililities and MORE AIR TIME.

My thermalling ability progressed well with the Spirt BUT THEN I got a poly wing DLG which really accellerated my thermalling skills. The reason is I think 4 fold. 1. With a DLG in a normal flight session your in the air lots with the quick turn around. 2. With the quick turn around, your doing lots of launching and landing which improves your flight skills. 3. Thermals are smaller closer to the ground so you really get in tune to subtle influence's (lift,sink) on your glider, and learning how to fly your plane in tight coordinated turns. 4. Your generally flying close-in so you can see how your plane is reacting to the conditions and your input better.

After a summer with the DLG I'm amazed at how improved and more efficient I am with the Spirit. I must warn you though, Flying a DLG is very addicting. There is little that compares in this game to specking your DLG out from a low save where you hook a thermal at the last possible moment 30 feet off the ground.

CHEERS, Leverick

[Ollie]

For the Zagi set up for thermalling, reduce weight, reduce drag, move CG aft and reduce reflex are the things you can do. More specifically: replace the cloroplast fins with contest balsa fins, replace the ailerons with some made from very light contest balsa, replace the elevon linkages with carbon rods and nylon clevices, move the CG as far aft as you can and still fly smoothly, replace radio components with lighter ones, remove any structurally unnecessary covering material, move the radio gear as far forward as necessary to eliminate lead in the nose, taper the ailerons to a feather edge at the trailing edge,eliminate any drag producing discontinuities in the flying surfaces and reduce equipment projections to an absolute minimum. Last, but far from least, fill in the gap between the inside edges of the elevons with a slightly reflexed bat-tail to reduce the drag associated with the "middle effect" and increase lift where the swept wing panels come together. The Horton IV flying wing planform is what you want to copy.

After you make these changes, let us know how much this improves the Zagi's thermalling ability.

[aeajr]

My First Sailplane is the Great Planes 2 Meter Spirit Select.

The Spirit Select is completely assembled with all the electronics installed.
It includes a 72 MHZ radio that is single stick. This is very easy to use. It is branded Hobbico, but it is really a Hitec radio.

Here is a link to the site where I purchased it for $139 complete!
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVK55**&P=7

Here is a link to the ARF version where you can find links to two product
reviews. If you want to do some building, the ARF is the route, but for an
extra $40, I got the radio and the plane ready to fly. For me that was
perfect.
http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1045.html

The plane has spoilers built in the wings which you have to cut out and connect, but you don't have to enable them.
The Select model does not come with the spoilers enabled. I will do that soon.

I have about 30+ short flights on it as I have been focusing on launching and have speced it out a couple of times. Launches great, and goes very high, off of a NE sailplane Standard Hi-start.

I tape the wings together with clear tape and there have been no problems with twisting or bending. They are rock solid and I can remove the tape to transport. Works very well.

It has been the perfect first sailplane for me.

[John Gallagher]

jrgospod,
It's already been done!
If you want an entry level SAL, try the Wright Brothers Gambler.
48" wingspan, low cost.
http://www.wrightbrothersrc.com/our_kits/gambler.htm
Plenty of discussions in the Hand Launch forum.

John

[jrgospod]

John Gallagher

Check the dates on the posts. A lot has changed in that time.