3DNT max rpm

[Andy Fell]

3DNT fanatics,

How fast have you managed to spin the rotor on this beasty. I'm after
a high headspeed but I dont think the mechanics can handle it.

It gets to 1800 and the who thing shakes like a twat! It's really
pissing me off I've spent ages on this thing and I'm not getting any
decent flying done! Has anyone tried the 8.3:1 ratio with the Webra
91? I'm coming to the conclusion that I need higher engine revs to
get low headspeed with a higher torque.

Has anyone else tried this before I waste my money on a different gear
ratio?

Also I can't get enough tail power and my tail locks worse than when I
piss into the wind. I have nothing bent/twisted, but I can't get a
very high gain (60% max)- GY602. Anyone got any ideas?? I have the
standard tail rotors.. I see some people have added NHP's with the
non-uprgraded tail hub.. but it says you cannot do this.

Spoke to Russ Deakin and he's completely rebuilt his to look like a
3DNT/Millenium.. Cool, at least now the landing skids are big enough
to land on! :-)

Dont get me wrong I think it's a nice Heli, but it's really testing my
patience!

Ta
Andy

[Andy Carpenter]

Hi Andy

I have run my NT at 1800 with a Webra and no problems. It is *very* fast
like that :)
I came to the same conclusion as you with respect to the Webra and the gear
ratios. Haven't tried a different ratio though - I have swapped it out for
the OS91 SX-HGL and Lotterle. I have only put a gallon through it so far,
but it is a lot happier at the lower head speeds than the Webra was. I
never had a satisfactory flight at 1300 with the Webra, but even running in
the OS seems happy at that and lower RPM,
Re your gyro, I can run my 601 at 75 with no problem - NHP 95 or 105 mm
tails. I currently have the gain at 55 with the 95mm tails and it is locked
solid.
I think you may have some problem with your airframe given you can't get a
decent lock, can't run high gain, and the thing shakes at high RPM.

Just for reference, my NT is a Mk3 with the tail upgrades and carbon main
pulley

I have seen the 3Dellium that Russ has built - he was putting it through
some impressive manouvures, but no more so than the 3DNT can do in standard
form, IMO. My thought is, if you want a Millenium - buy one. 50% of owning
and flying an NT is its' uniqueness and this hybrid takes that away. Just
my opinion

--
Carps.

[ http://www.carps.co.uk ]

"Andy Fell" <andy_fell@NSbigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:le4a6vkf199go9s5hq433bhvcg7u6a58ip@4ax.com...
> 3DNT fanatics,
>
> How fast have you managed to spin the rotor on this beasty. I'm after
> a high headspeed but I dont think the mechanics can handle it.
>
> It gets to 1800 and the who thing shakes like a twat! It's really
> pissing me off I've spent ages on this thing and I'm not getting any
> decent flying done! Has anyone tried the 8.3:1 ratio with the Webra
> 91? I'm coming to the conclusion that I need higher engine revs to
> get low headspeed with a higher torque.
>
> Has anyone else tried this before I waste my money on a different gear
> ratio?
>
> Also I can't get enough tail power and my tail locks worse than when I
> piss into the wind. I have nothing bent/twisted, but I can't get a
> very high gain (60% max)- GY602. Anyone got any ideas?? I have the
> standard tail rotors.. I see some people have added NHP's with the
> non-uprgraded tail hub.. but it says you cannot do this.
>
> Spoke to Russ Deakin and he's completely rebuilt his to look like a
> 3DNT/Millenium.. Cool, at least now the landing skids are big enough
> to land on! :-)
>
> Dont get me wrong I think it's a nice Heli, but it's really testing my
> patience!
>
> Ta
> Andy

[Andy Fell]

On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), "Andy Carpenter"
<andy@REMOVEcarpsTHE.coUPPER.ukCASE> wrote:

>Hi Andy
>
>I have run my NT at 1800 with a Webra and no problems. It is *very* fast
>like that :)
>I came to the same conclusion as you with respect to the Webra and the gear
>ratios. Haven't tried a different ratio though - I have swapped it out for
>the OS91 SX-HGL and Lotterle. I have only put a gallon through it so far,
>but it is a lot happier at the lower head speeds than the Webra was. I
>never had a satisfactory flight at 1300 with the Webra, but even running in
>the OS seems happy at that and lower RPM,

Yer.. think I might go for the different gear ratio.

>Re your gyro, I can run my 601 at 75 with no problem - NHP 95 or 105 mm
>tails. I currently have the gain at 55 with the 95mm tails and it is locked
>solid.
>I think you may have some problem with your airframe given you can't get a
>decent lock, can't run high gain, and the thing shakes at high RPM.

Hmmmmmm... I'll have another look, but I've looked and looked and
looked at the bugger! grrrrr

>
>Just for reference, my NT is a Mk3 with the tail upgrades and carbon main
>pulley

Right.. I dont have those upgrades... not I dont supposed it makes
that much difference,

>
>I have seen the 3Dellium that Russ has built - he was putting it through
>some impressive manouvures, but no more so than the 3DNT can do in standard
>form, IMO. My thought is, if you want a Millenium - buy one. 50% of owning
>and flying an NT is its' uniqueness and this hybrid takes that away. Just
>my opinion

I've got a Millenium... and I like it... I've got the 3DNT...
I think the mille mechanics with the 3DNT drive train and head would
be the dogs bollocks. I've got to say I think the mille frames are
less flexible.

Thanks for your input.

Andy

[Beav]

"Andy Fell" <andy_fell@NSbigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:le4a6vkf199go9s5hq433bhvcg7u6a58ip@4ax.com...
> 3DNT fanatics,
>
> How fast have you managed to spin the rotor on this beasty. I'm after
> a high headspeed but I dont think the mechanics can handle it.
>
> It gets to 1800 and the who thing shakes like a twat!


Andy, I've had Andy's (another Andy, the one who owns the NT I built not YOU
Andy:-) over 1800rpm without a hint of a possible self destruct. No shakes
at all, so I'm thnking that if you've not twatted yours, maybe the Webra is
the problem. I know the "other" big Webra (75) doesn't like revving it's
bollocks off and it vibrates the heli's to let us know.


It's really
> pissing me off I've spent ages on this thing and I'm not getting any
> decent flying done! Has anyone tried the 8.3:1 ratio with the Webra
> 91? I'm coming to the conclusion that I need higher engine revs to
> get low headspeed with a higher torque.

Higher engine speeds with a WEBRA???? You really SHOULD expect vibes if you
do.
>
> Has anyone else tried this before I waste my money on a different gear
> ratio?

I've not Andy, but I'd be VERY wary of attempting to get higher engine revs.
I'd be looking to get them LOWER in fact.

>
> Also I can't get enough tail power and my tail locks worse than when I
> piss into the wind. I have nothing bent/twisted, but I can't get a
> very high gain (60% max)- GY602.


Did you use the steel base plate for the gyro? Not that it'll help much if
the heli's vibrating. That needs addressing before anything else.

Anyone got any ideas?? I have the
> standard tail rotors.. I see some people have added NHP's with the
> non-uprgraded tail hub.. but it says you cannot do this.

The standard one on Andy's (that's the other Andy remember:-) work as
advertised and the lock is as good as most other heli's I've flown.

>
> Spoke to Russ Deakin and he's completely rebuilt his to look like a
> 3DNT/Millenium.. Cool, at least now the landing skids are big enough
> to land on! :-)

Good idea that. I've not seen it, but it's on the cards for me to modify
Andy's landing "equipment". The original is within keeping, but it's too
small for rough field work.

>
> Dont get me wrong I think it's a nice Heli, but it's really testing my
> patience!

And it's a bitch when you've thrown a wedge of cash and don't get the
flying. I know!


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

[Peter Christy]

One other thought: Have you tried another set of blades?

I've got an old Morley Bell 47 (I know, not in the same league, but bear with
me!) that was grounded for years because of violent vibrations when the
headspeed got up to flying rpm. Couldn't see anything obvious wrong with the
blades, but changing them for another manufacturers cured it completely.

Some combinations of head / head-speed / blade just don't seem to work, for no
obvious reason!

--
Pete
christy@NOSPAMattglobal.net
(make the obvious amendments to reply!)

[Andy Fell]

I'll give that a go Pete,

Thats one thing I haven't tried yet. They are new blades, but you
never know!

Andy


On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:41:59 +0000, Peter Christy
<christy@NOSPAMattglobal.net> wrote:

>One other thought: Have you tried another set of blades?
>
>I've got an old Morley Bell 47 (I know, not in the same league, but bear with
>me!) that was grounded for years because of violent vibrations when the
>headspeed got up to flying rpm. Couldn't see anything obvious wrong with the
>blades, but changing them for another manufacturers cured it completely.
>
>Some combinations of head / head-speed / blade just don't seem to work, for no
>obvious reason!

[Andy Fell]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 01:27:50 -0000, "Beav"
<beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote:

>
>"Andy Fell" <andy_fell@NSbigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:le4a6vkf199go9s5hq433bhvcg7u6a58ip@4ax.com...
>> 3DNT fanatics,
>>
>> How fast have you managed to spin the rotor on this beasty. I'm after
>> a high headspeed but I dont think the mechanics can handle it.
>>
>> It gets to 1800 and the who thing shakes like a twat!
>
>
>Andy, I've had Andy's (another Andy, the one who owns the NT I built not YOU
>Andy:-) over 1800rpm without a hint of a possible self destruct. No shakes
>at all, so I'm thnking that if you've not twatted yours, maybe the Webra is
>the problem. I know the "other" big Webra (75) doesn't like revving it's
>bollocks off and it vibrates the heli's to let us know.


>
>
>It's really
>> pissing me off I've spent ages on this thing and I'm not getting any
>> decent flying done! Has anyone tried the 8.3:1 ratio with the Webra
>> 91? I'm coming to the conclusion that I need higher engine revs to
>> get low headspeed with a higher torque.
>
>Higher engine speeds with a WEBRA???? You really SHOULD expect vibes if you
>do.

I know what you are saying, I had just that issue with the W75 in the
Mille.. However, this seems the other way around. I have spoken to
Revo models and they have heard people getting better results with the
8.3:1 ratio. Dunno who exactly though!

>> Also I can't get enough tail power and my tail locks worse than when I
>> piss into the wind. I have nothing bent/twisted, but I can't get a
>> very high gain (60% max)- GY602.
>
>
>Did you use the steel base plate for the gyro? Not that it'll help much if
>the heli's vibrating. That needs addressing before anything else.

Yes, I did a bit of work in this area to stiffen it up abit... so
maybe once I've sorted the other stuff out I may be ok.


>
> Anyone got any ideas?? I have the
>> standard tail rotors.. I see some people have added NHP's with the
>> non-uprgraded tail hub.. but it says you cannot do this.
>
>The standard one on Andy's (that's the other Andy remember:-) work as
>advertised and the lock is as good as most other heli's I've flown.

Thats exactly what I would have thought

>
>>
>> Spoke to Russ Deakin and he's completely rebuilt his to look like a
>> 3DNT/Millenium.. Cool, at least now the landing skids are big enough
>> to land on! :-)
>
>Good idea that. I've not seen it, but it's on the cards for me to modify
>Andy's landing "equipment". The original is within keeping, but it's too
>small for rough field work.

Yeah, they're a pain in athe arse on a grass field.

>
>>
>> Dont get me wrong I think it's a nice Heli, but it's really testing my
>> patience!
>
>And it's a bitch when you've thrown a wedge of cash and don't get the
>flying. I know!


Indeed!! The problem is you don't know whether to continue, or stop!
Before you know it you've spent a fortune and got no-where! Such is
life!

Cheers

Andy

[Rick van der Sloot]

Hi Andy,

In gemany there where some problems with shaking that were solved after
mounting the carbon main pulley. With the Delrin gear there where problems
with mating to the toothed Belt, which got worse by varying Belt tension due
to temperature-expansion of the gear. The new gear doesn't have teeth and
much lower temperature coeff. You should check your tank, there were some
people how found that their main-gear (Delrin) was slotting the tank.

You don't need 1800 revs with this machine, slighty lager disk and low
weight. But there are some people in Austria who run their NT's equiped with
Webra's in the 2100 regions for drag-racing. have a look at www.heli4you.net
(german). They also use a higher gear ratio for allround flying, the Webra
doesn't like the low-revs as much as the OS.

Greetings,

Rick

"Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:4Cc9a.12849$EN3.104135@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Andy Fell" <andy_fell@NSbigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:le4a6vkf199go9s5hq433bhvcg7u6a58ip@4ax.com...
> > 3DNT fanatics,
> >
> > How fast have you managed to spin the rotor on this beasty. I'm after
> > a high headspeed but I dont think the mechanics can handle it.
> >
> > It gets to 1800 and the who thing shakes like a twat!
>
>
> Andy, I've had Andy's (another Andy, the one who owns the NT I built not
YOU
> Andy:-) over 1800rpm without a hint of a possible self destruct. No shakes
> at all, so I'm thnking that if you've not twatted yours, maybe the Webra
is
> the problem. I know the "other" big Webra (75) doesn't like revving it's
> bollocks off and it vibrates the heli's to let us know.
>
>
> It's really
> > pissing me off I've spent ages on this thing and I'm not getting any
> > decent flying done! Has anyone tried the 8.3:1 ratio with the Webra
> > 91? I'm coming to the conclusion that I need higher engine revs to
> > get low headspeed with a higher torque.
>
> Higher engine speeds with a WEBRA???? You really SHOULD expect vibes if
you
> do.
> >
> > Has anyone else tried this before I waste my money on a different gear
> > ratio?
>
> I've not Andy, but I'd be VERY wary of attempting to get higher engine
revs.
> I'd be looking to get them LOWER in fact.
>
> >
> > Also I can't get enough tail power and my tail locks worse than when I
> > piss into the wind. I have nothing bent/twisted, but I can't get a
> > very high gain (60% max)- GY602.
>
>
> Did you use the steel base plate for the gyro? Not that it'll help much if
> the heli's vibrating. That needs addressing before anything else.
>
> Anyone got any ideas?? I have the
> > standard tail rotors.. I see some people have added NHP's with the
> > non-uprgraded tail hub.. but it says you cannot do this.
>
> The standard one on Andy's (that's the other Andy remember:-) work as
> advertised and the lock is as good as most other heli's I've flown.
>
> >
> > Spoke to Russ Deakin and he's completely rebuilt his to look like a
> > 3DNT/Millenium.. Cool, at least now the landing skids are big enough
> > to land on! :-)
>
> Good idea that. I've not seen it, but it's on the cards for me to modify
> Andy's landing "equipment". The original is within keeping, but it's too
> small for rough field work.
>
> >
> > Dont get me wrong I think it's a nice Heli, but it's really testing my
> > patience!
>
> And it's a bitch when you've thrown a wedge of cash and don't get the
> flying. I know!
>
>
> --
> Beav
>
>
> Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
> (with the obvious changes)
>
> Beavisland now lives at
> www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
>
>