Floater G-110 Laser cut proto kit build.

[ronrange]

I'm not a pro at either the computer nor experienced at participating in build threads. That being said, I have some pictures and thoughts to offer on the build of the kit for the G-110 that Berry Nellums is developing. As is the case with Gobug, the other builder, it was my first RC sailplane also.

I have been away from building for some time and almost forgotten how much fun cutting, sanding, and gluing can be. This project is a laser cut kit and as such minimizes the time required for cutting and sanding.

I hope the picture posting works out well. If anyone has any questions regarding the build, feel free to post online and I will try to respond.

My initital inpression of the kit was that it was well packaged and a good selection of woods and good laser cutting. Although some of the laser cuts might require some changes. The wood was bundled as to the part it went into. Stab, Wing spars, sheet stock etc.

My first step was to remove the laser cut parts from their sheets and sort the ribs by inboard and outboard panels . I took time to lightly sand the bottom of all ribs and maintain in their respective bundles. The purpose being to remove some of the burn residue from the edges and to assure any retainer pieces were removed too.

The next thing for me was to proceed with gluing the 1/16 doublers in place on the wing spars. About this time I discovered that the spars are slightly oversize as relating to the original plans. A minor problem that necessitates deepening the spar slots in the ribs to fir. Actually from the structure standpoint, it add some strength to the wing. Not sure how it will wash out on the final kit.

[condor-60]

Ron I am glad to see you starting your build on the G-110. I feel very lucky that I have two ole pros doing this for me. As I understand it the Floater was your first
sailplane as it was Tinkerplots and also my first. I feel very lucky to have my Cad
designer doing a build and critiquing the kit. Ron has promised that the Cad will be adjusted as needed to accomadate any changes. I don't want any customer to have
to sand or alter any parts just to make them fit other than perhaps a little light sanding
thats normal with any model building project. Thanks again Ron just keep your notes
on the rib notches as we will address ths issue later.

Condor-60

[ronrange]

new pics

[ronrange]

More pics

[rabidrue1]

Looking good Ron.

[FoamCrusher]

Ron:

It is good to have both you and Tink building the same plane at the same time. It gives different perspectives. I am watching you both to see how they turn out.....and because Berry won't sell a kit until he knows it is right....so I have to wait for you guys to get finished :rolleyes:

FC

[condor-60]

Merry Christmas everyone.

Condor-60

[ronrange]

Some progress on the G110 build. After all the turkey and ham and dressing and deserts, I managed some time to accomplish some of the attached. So far, all is going well with only a couple of CAD glitches that have been corrected on the file. If you have a sharp eye you might be able to find one of them.

[condor-60]

Damn ole man your looking good,any serious problems yet.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

Nice Ron all is looking well,now we just need to give tink a kick in the but so he gets going.

[tinkrerpilot]

Yeah, Yeah, yeah!!! Must be nice to have all that extra time to play. Guess being retired has its advantages. I am catching up though. Fuselage has been started. Picks later today. Had to borrow a computer, since we are tracking down a virus in mine with all the pictures. Just some minor issues to deal with. Nothing big that a little sanding will not take care of. I almost forgot how big this bird really is after I got the stab together. Sure did not look that big 35 years ago.

Anyway, Ron, looking very good. Not to far behind you. Great to see the pictures that you have going.

Got all the pieces punched out last night. Starting on the them today after I get some sleep. Have a couple of minor house repairs then the fuselage will go together. Building is really going well. No big issues to speak of....

Keep going Ron. You may be done before me, unless I kick it into gear. Rather build tight then as so so job. Berry will like it.

[Skycruiser]

Looking good Ron. Can we have some shots of the boom as well? I assume it's spruce, what stops it whipping side to side?

Ain't laser kits great? I remember the days before diecrunching when we used to get parts printed on the balsa, and you had to cut them out by hand. I used a Stanley knife for my first one!

Nick

[Bob Cook]

Yah Ron, that stab does look big. How wide is it anyway ? Your doing a fine job, I'll keep watching as well.

Bob in Seattle

[tinkrerpilot]

Ron,
For your glitches are you talking about the slot for the rubber band in the stab not being cut through to form the slot? Or is it the notch for the stab in the Fin? Or the little tweak in the elevator at the trailing edgae. May be just camera angle on that one. Have finished sanded the elevator yet? Could be I am just seeing things here.

Bob, Stab is 27" across

Nick, 1/4 square spruce alll the way to the tail, 1/16' plywood sides. Stops the whipping from the way it goes into the fuselage. may be overkill by todays standards. Very strong structure for what it is, Never had a problem with either of the two that I had in some 15 years with them. And I really abused them.
Contest flying and general fun flying for the most part. Never chipped , cracked or broke the main fuselage and boom.

Lyle

[ronrange]

Some pictures showing steps in assembling the boom for the fuse. Again patience and prefitting and sanding will serve you well. My experience is that even though laser cut, the ply due to not being perfectly flat will result in not perfectly straight edges. his was observed on the top and bottom of the boom sides. NOt a major problem .

Ex

[condor-60]

....Those pics look great Ron. Did you encounter any problems thru these stages.

Condor-60

[atmosteve]

Thanks for the pics Ron, my eyes are very new to this older design and it looks a light and elegant well tested design, and kit from condor-60. Now that is a floater that would rise!

[rabidrue1]

Looking real nice Ron,looks like tink is going to eating some dust.

[tinkrerpilot]

Not on your account rabid. Following real close behind. Besides the week is not over yet. I have till Sunday.

[ronrange]

finally got started on the wing construction. Somewhat time consuming. Need to notch TE stock, unfun.Ended up doing some sanding on the spars to bring into tolerance to better fit the ribs. Along with some sanding on the rib notches. Here are some pics of the progress.

[condor-60]

Ron those are great pictures of the wing construction. Now everyone can see what the bones look like. I'll call ya tomorrow.

Berry

[condor-60]

......A little humor from me to you.

Berry
Condor-60

[FoamCrusher]

Ron or Berry:

Is the LE a spruce dowel or balsa that must be sanded to shape? Without spar caps and shear webs it looks like that wing will go together very quickly.

FC

[condor-60]

....Steve the leading edge is 1/4" X 1/4" Spruce. Very tough and hard to dent.

Berry
Condor-60

[FoamCrusher]

....Steve the leading edge is 1/4" X 1/4" Spruce. Very tough and hard to dent.

Berry
Condor-60
That's what I was afraid of.....spruce while very resistant to hanger rash and being knocked around is a bear to sand to form a nice LE and form the same profile down the entire length of the wing...at least with my skills. I will see if I can find some spruce doweling. From the looks of the photos the ribs are notched for it.

The DJ Aerotech Chrysalis uses the doweling and it is super easy to fit and has a consistent cross section throughout its length. The only issue is if you like to use one color on the top of the wing and another on the bottom, the small doweling only allows about 3/32" to bond each color of the covering film at the LE. A little BalsaLoc keeps it in place,however.

You know that I am not a "purist" as far as wood planes go and might just even use some CF tube if it looks like it will fit. Now THAT would make a tough LE!

I like how the old floaters fly and am not above using a little modern technology to either make them more durable or the build go quicker. I will decide after I have the wood in front of me.

More pictures Ron!

[rabidrue1]

F/C Punch up wood workers warehouse and in hand tools in the planes and spokeshave section look at the radius slick plane item#142513.This is very close to the hand made one that I got from my grand dad who was a pattern maker.This thing will cut radius from 1/16" to 3/8" in spruce,balsa and wood that is harder than a whores heart and not chatter.If you keep the knife real sharp it will even cut cross grain balsa with no tear out.And at $19.00 it's a steal.scottie

[condor-60]

....FC its not as hard as you think. A small sanding block takes it down quite easly.
Continue watching the build and lets see how they tackle the issue.

Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

Fuse bottom and wing LE.

[FoamCrusher]

....FC its not as hard as you think. A small sanding block takes it down quite easily.You are right. I can see from Ron's #4 picture that the LE goes corner-on into the rib and not with one side flush against the end of the rib as with the Oly 3 I am working on right now. Placed at an angle only a small amount of stock will need to be removed.

Ron: That looks like a sweet little tool. It is on my wish list.

FC

[ronrange]

FC,

In my opinion the corner in on the ribs presents something of a problem in the layout of the planform for the wing. Perpendicular surf on the LE would permit better fitting of the ribs. I prefer to glue each rib individually as I go, rather than to add the LE after ribs in place.

[tinkrerpilot]

ronrange
What did you use to notch your trailing edge stock to accept the ribs? Something that the drawing calls for or somethng of your own device? Getting ready to put mine down. See the picture of my day starting. had more snow here at the house this morning. So nothing better to do then keep working on the plane.

[Skycruiser]

Tink, I have a range of notchers each made from a pair of single edged razor blades separated by layers of 1/64 ply, all cyanoed together. Fast to make and they last for years.

Nick

[tinkrerpilot]

Hey Nick,

Thanks for the idea. That is what is called out on the plans. Never thought of the plywood in between. So that is what I will go with. Pressing on to the wing build. Have to clear the table right now of the fuselage and componets. Will do the finish on the fuse work as I build the wing.

[Joe Minton]

From tinkrerpilot: "-I have a range of notchers--"

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I have been trying of figure a way to make rib notches for a while now. Your method makes the most sense and I'll use it.

Ain't RCGroups grand?!

Joe

[Skycruiser]

Broken hacksaw blades taped together are supposed to make good ones too, I'd say better on fairly solid trailing edge stock though. Never tried them myself.

Nick

[tinkrerpilot]

Joe,
Glad to be of service. The guys on the groups are a vast source of knowledge with a willingness to share. Makes the hobby more enjoyable that way.

"The only queston that does not go answered, is the one that you don't ask!"


Nick,
Thanks for the advice. I have tried the hacksaw blade routine. I have to agree the it will work on some stock, but not the softr stuff that the trailing edge material is made
of. The doubled razor blade works the trick. Knew I could get some help here. Thanks!

[greyhound flyer]

Of course, there's always the poor man's way of just using balsa sheet with some 220 grit glued or rubber cemented to it. I like to put a depth stop on mine so that they are a T-shape. While this does take longer than blades, you don't have to worry about overshooting the depth of the notch as long as you start with a straight groove in the TE stock.

I also included a picture of the tool I made and used to finish up the scallops for the Mirage tip TE.

[condor-60]

......Tink when is the best tme to call you. I have your phone numbers but that Robot comes on saying I can leave a message etc.I don't like talking to machines that sound
like beautifull women.Boy that woman on my GPS unit I'd like to get to know.I ask her if she wants to have sex in the woods up ahead and she just keeps telling me to turn right,dumb broad.

Berry
Condor-60

[condor-60]

Sorry Ron I meant to post to Lyles build.

Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

Fuse nose and wing pics

[rabidrue1]

Wow! Ron looking real fine,I hope there will be some transparent covering on the wing so that fine looking frame work gets to be seen.

[Skycruiser]

......Tink when is the best tme to call you. I have your phone numbers but that Robot comes on saying I can leave a message etc.I don't like talking to machines that sound
like beautifull women.Boy that woman on my GPS unit I'd like to get to know.I ask her if she wants to have sex in the woods up ahead and she just keeps telling me to turn right,dumb broad.

Berry
Condor-60

Reminds me of the time I picked up a gorgeous hitchhiker. We got to talking, and she said she was a magician. I said "Go on, show me a trick". She leaned over and put her hand on my *****, and straight away I turned into a motel :D :D :D

(Alex, if you happen to read that, it's a joke, OK?)

I cut my own ribs usually, so overnotching isn't an issue because I trim them to fit, first with a blade then sandpaper.

[ronrange]

Views of shaping of the boom

[ronrange]

Pics of the anchor nut mount for the tow hook.

[ronrange]

Fuse and outer wing panel progress

[condor-60]

.....Hey Ron,wake up.

Cheers
Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

More progress

[John Cole]

Ron, looks good!

A couple of q's; Is the stab removable? I'd guess probably so. Looks like a spruce LE, good idea. Are you thinking Monokote eventually, or perhaps something lighter?

Keep up the good work you guys.

John
(#5)

[ronrange]

The stab will be removeable, secured by rubber bands as was the orig. The leading edge has a strip of 1/16 spruce aft for stiffening. I most likely will cover with Monocote. My orig was covered with Solar film which was something of a mistake. All things considered the build is going pretty well. I welcome all comments and questions.

[FoamCrusher]

Ron:

I know you are building this one to plan, but if you were going to do another build would you make a built-up fin and/or rudder? It looks like lots of weight could be saved there either with lightening holes or a built-up structures of balsa and CF.

BTW...are those two oversize spruce parts necessary on the fin and rudder??? I have never seen that before.

FC

[ronrange]

If I were do deviate, I doubt that I would necessarily make a change in that area. It is pretty simple and only 1/8 balsa. You could probably do without the spruce stiffeners, but dont believe the weight penalty is that great.

I probably would change the wing structure considerably.

But it is a pretty good flying, easy to build and nice looking aircraft, as is.

[ertman_176]

Could you add more photos of "Tail boom". I wonder if you could take also a photo of plan because i wonder is made of layers of wood or it is a "box".

[ronrange]

I will try for some pics in near future of the boom. It is 1/4 spruce top and bottom sandwiched between 1/16 ply sides. Can you understand that description. Pretty simple, fairly easy to accomplish and quite strong.

[condor-60]

.....Ertman 176 go to my other build titled "Zaic Floater G-110 revisited" by Tinkerpilot.He has perhaps some better views of the boom area that could give
a better idea as to how it is constructed. The boom is actually a sandwhich construction using two 1/4" x 1/4" spruce strips encapsulated between the 1/16th
plywood boom skins. This makes for a very strong and non-destructive Pod and Boom
configuration. Frank Zaic was a genious when it came to model design and his design
of the G-110 Pod and Boom fuselage proves this.

Berry
Condor-60

[condor-60]

.....John if I may add my two cents in on the covering question. I built my Floater
many years ago and used "Monocote" for its covering as did most other 100" designs
of that era. This is a vintage design and any and all strenght you can give it will
render a much better longevity. The Floater G-110 was designed for winches ad hi-starts of its era and took on those tasks with no problem. In todays world one must
not try and rocket the G-110 up the launch with these new and powerfull winches that we have today as the wings will not hold up. Todays newer gliders with their
carbon fibre fuselage and carbon fibre wings can usually be launched as hard
as you can launch them with no ill effects but vintage gliders are a little different.
The Floater G-110 has cantilever wings that allows the wings to flex on launch.
There is nothing more beautifull than seeing a G-110 going up with its wings bowed
like a big colorfull butterfly on launch. Its called "poetry in motion" and don't expect it to come down anytime soon either because it out flew them all in its day. While Oly-II's
and Windrifters were looking for places to land the Floater with those big 110 inch wings was still gong up.

Berry
Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Ron:

I know you are building this one to plan, but if you were going to do another build would you make a built-up fin and/or rudder? It looks like lots of weight could be saved there either with lightening holes or a built-up structures of balsa and CF.

BTW...are those two oversize spruce parts necessary on the fin and rudder??? I have never seen that before.

FC


FC
The strips on the fin and rudder are anti warp strip to help keep the balsa parts from warpping.

As for mods it is better left alone. You could do the built up tail but is not really needed. Control authority is really good with this setup.

I did have a mishap with mine years ago. I had another plane take the fin right off the plane right above the ply fuselage sides. Sitting back at home was the idea to make it stronger then the original. Did not have RC Groups back then. Thinking of what to do. I came up withthe idea of a plywood sandwich. I used 1/32" plwood on each side of a piece of 1/16" balsa allowing me to replace the hinges that got broken with the fin. Made a really great, no visible repair and a stronger joint overall. The model flew well for over 13 years and then some afer I sold it. A very robust assembly.

[John Cole]

Thanks Ron and Berry. I still have some OLD rolls of transparent Super Monokote stashed away. Looks like I have a home for it now.

John

[condor-60]

.....John the transparent colors render a stunning set of wings. Beings the Floater is not a D-tube type it really looks good. With the fuselage being all 1/16th finished plywood you can actually stain it to accent your wing color. When I built mine many years ago I stained it with a natural stain and then carefully used some polyurethane on it. This combo made for a very beautifull sailplane and turned many heads at the field. The Floater design is Frank Zaic at his best,it is highly competitive (see the attached picture of my label for my shipping box showing its contest wins)and its also very forgiving for the novice. Should you ever get into trouble with it just leave the transmitter alone and it will correct itself in flight. The picture on my label is of Ken Cashion who was our club president. Tho his wings aren't done in transparent monocote they are very pretty and it gives you an idea of how large the Floater is. On the Floater G-110 plans Zaic shows how to make a simple mid section of 20-inches that will make it a Floater G-130. I will offer this as an option when I start kitting the Floater. The G-130 is a very BIG sailplane and
flew quite well for its sze. Ken Cashion built one for the G-110 seen in the picture and it looked awesome. It would eclipse the sun when it flew overhead and commanded respect from all comers. Ken use to set up a 747 approach from way out yonder to bring it in for a landing. With such a long set of wings,turns near the ground would almost allways get you into trouble.
I'll shut up for now as I could talk all day on this subject.

Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

My buddy recommended this method for straightening warped TE stock.

[John Cole]

Ron, really good idea about splitting the TE wood to remove warps! After gluing sticks together for 40+ years, it's cool to learn new tricks.

The wing structure sure shows the Jetco lineage.

John

[schrederman]

Beautiful... It always amazes me when I look at these old designs. The simplicity is beauty in and of itself. Back when we were more interested in a model's floating ability and not so worried about 30 Gs of stress from monster launches and dork landings... things were different for sure. I miss that simplicity and still enjoy the RES event as much or more than unlimited. Keep up the good work... We're watching!

Jack

[ronrange]

Thanks, Im trying to keep up the good work. As I work on this, i am wondering of the merits of laser cut ribs when the orig plans are used and not QUITE as accurate as the CAD generated parts or plans.

[John Cole]

[QUOTE=tinkrerpilot]FC
The strips on the fin and rudder are anti warp strip to help keep the balsa parts from warpping.

Tink, I've had some balsa sheet free flight models in the past that sure could have benefited from these spruce strips. They are simple and effective.

And something regarding balsa sheet construction; Long ago, some FF folks did some weight comparisons between built-up construction (and of course, the required covering needed) and sheet balsa. Surprisingly, the sheet construction really had no significant weight penalty. They were comparing structures as found in P-30 rubber powered models, and smaller. But I'd guess that Frank probably made the fin/rudder from sheet being fully aware of any weight issues, and considered the advantages of each. Nice design.

Keep up the good work you guys!

John

[tinkrerpilot]

John,

You would be surprised how well this idea works. 13 years on the same plane and never had a problem with the tail warping. Changed mine around on the build. Ron put his on the sides and I inlayed mine into the fin and rudder. Making it a smoother shape. My original was overlayed on both sides making hardwood on both sides with a balsa middle section. I think either way works just fine. Matter of your preference.

Been there done that with the free flight models too. Blazers, Stardusters, Satellites, just to name a few.

Regards,
Lyle

[condor-60]

.....Wake up Ron.

Condor-60

[ronrange]

I will try to respond to any and all questions that anyone might have with regards to the building process. Hopefully the pics will inspire some.

[condor-60]

.......Ron what is your assesment on the fuselage,do you think it is ready for production. I know we still need to add the little wedge shaped thingy that attaches to the pod and boom from underneath but besides that do you think I could order up
the laser cut parts for it.

Berry
Condor-60

[condor-60]

......For all of you that has requested a Floater G-110 kit I have reached a point in the builds that I can safely offer the G-110 fuselage kit forsale. IT will sell for $90.00
and will include the plans and the comprehensive instructional manuel (a $25.00 value
that is part of the full kit). This will allow you to be that much further in your building of the G-110. I can substitute the paper version of the manuel with a DVD if so desired. As you know we are having some issues with the wings that will be corrected
before my first production run. The Zaic Floater G-110 once properly balanced and flying will far surpass your greatest expectations, its an ole classic that will turn heads
each time you bring it on the field. If interested send me a PM or email me at bnellums@bellsouth.net

Note:shipping is not included


Thanks
Berry
Condor-60

[condor-60]

.....Ron been playing around with a web page design for my web page when all is complete with the builds and all corrections made. The Floater image will be replaced
with either a picture of Lyles or one from you depending which I choose. Any suggestions I'd appreciate.

Condor-60

[ronrange]

More pictures of the construction. Questions are welcomed.

It really is an easy to assemble plane.

[condor-60]

......Ron I posted these pics on Tinks thread and now finally yours. Just want your comments on the web pages for a web site for the Floater. These are just rough
drafts and nothing permanent at this point.

Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

Hopefully these will serve to drive some interest on a Nostaglia Kit.

[ronrange]

More still.

[condor-60]

......Ron just wondering if we are gonna have a Floater G-110 in the air by summers end. Thats when the real test will start.

Condor-60

[ronrange]

Been a lot of work and a lot of fun. Now all that is left is final sanding, painting and installing the radio for the fuse to be complete.

Some pics to show progress. I will let them speak for themselvels.

[FoamCrusher]

C-60:

At one point you mentioned making the parts available for an XL version that would have 20" more wingspan. A couple of questions about that....

Have you or your friend flown the XL version? If so how differently does it fly?

Did Frank Z. mention, suggest or even fly one at 130"?

It would seem with the larger wing it would need more rudder area, a longer distance between the wing TE and tail, and possible adjustment to the dihedral. Were those done in Frank's original design or did he just add the ribs?


FC

[condor-60]

.....F.C the 20-inch addon wig section is mentioned in the plans by Zaic. He shows a
small diagram with tips on its constructtion. In these tips he does mention an increase in rudder area. I have only seen one other Floater G-110 done this way and it was by
our club president many years ago. The Floater G-130 was one big ass glider and went
up on the winch as if it was on rails. I recall no issues with it other than when landing,
you need to set up a 747 approach from way out yonder. Turns closer to the ground tend to
really challenge your piloting skills. Tinkerpilot has expressed an interest in this option and I will supply him with material to do so. That will also be an option offered with the kit.

Thanks
Berry
Condor-60
ground

[tinkrerpilot]

Hey condor-60,

Send me the material for the center section extension when you can find the time. Should be ready for it here prett soon.

Nothing to report tonight as we went to the Nothwest Model Expo in Monroe. Was a nice drive in the fog most of the way. If you could see the road, driving was the hard part. Not so bad coming though.

[condor-60]

.......Tink I need to know what ply and balsa ribs you want to use for the 20-inch section. Don't forget the new Cad files for the wing has been correctly adjusted and the wing notches won't align with the wing you are currently building.

Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Condor-60,

Will build the center section on my behalf. Since the CAD update and the new rib patterns have changed. The build on the old pattern will not work with the new due to the differences that ronrange and I have noted during the build. So to suffice the differences between the original pattern and the correted pattern, I will scratch build the center section. I already have most of it laid out. Just have to finish the wings for the plane first.

[Miraj]

Guys, the build is looking awesome, with what you have in your hands at present, spoilers 'look' to be straight forward if someone wanted to install them?
Is the wing strong enough to support servos in the wings for them?

M

[ronrange]

The wing was never intended for spoilers. It would be somewhat difficult to install them with the current wing design in my opinion. If one wanted spoilers I would suggest a radical redesign of the wing structure.

I bleieve I would go with a Beam spar with webs as on the Oly or Aquila if I were to use spoilers. The flex of this design would be problematical with spoilers.

GOFERIT.

Ron

[condor-60]

.....My friend Ken Cashion the gentleman with the Floater thats on my label has a note from Frank Zaic in his workshop. The note reads "if you want to come down in a hurry,then don't fly so high". This was Franks response on a question concerning spoilers. As Ron states in the above post it would be very difficult to install but not
impossible. I would consider putting spoilers in the 20-inch optional wing that I
will make available later on as it renders a better profile. The 20-inch wing is completely encapsulated in 1/16th balsa,its ridgid and has a flat profile. The Floater
wings are of a cantilever design meaning they are designed to flex and with a ridgid
spoiler in the wing ,that could present a structural problem but as I said nothing
is impossible in todays world.

Condor-60

[FoamCrusher]

If the 20" add-on center section is fully sheeted, then the ribs are adjusted to be smaller by 1/16" top and bottom?

With one side of the wing being 65" and the spoilers only being at most in the first 10" from the root, no wonder Mr. Z did not suggest them. Being that close to the fuse they would be bound to disrupt the air flow over the tail causing control issues when deployed. Most designs I have seen try to place the spoilers as far toward the wing tip as practical for this reason.

Would the Graupner "pop up" blade spoilers be any easier to install?

FC

[condor-60]

......FC sounds like your raising a good point. I will contact Ken on this and see what he says as I do remember his being on that center section.

Berry
Condor-60

[Aphorism's Dream]

If the 20" add-on center section is fully sheeted, then the ribs are adjusted to be smaller by 1/16" top and bottom?

With one side of the wing being 65" and the spoilers only being at most in the first 10" from the root, no wonder Mr. Z did not suggest them. Being that close to the fuse they would be bound to disrupt the air flow over the tail causing control issues when deployed. Most designs I have seen try to place the spoilers as far toward the wing tip as practical for this reason.

Would the Graupner "pop up" blade spoilers be any easier to install?

FC
Why not simply use split flap if one absolutely insists to spoil the lift ?
Otherwise a set of .500-.750" upper and lower slotted plate spolers at 40-50% span immediately behind and attached to the forward spar would certainly increase sink rate. two diagonal braces between the ribs in the spoiler span would be plenty of strengthening.
However this bird has such good float that Zaics comment is best....just fly with less altitude. This is not a high speed "dorker"! :rolleyes:

[condor-60]

......Ron are you still building. Haven't heard from you in close to a week.

Berry
Condor-60

[ronrange]

Any questions will be answered if at all possible.

[condor-60]

.......Hey Ron those are super pictures of the root area. Looks like your bird will be flying soon. I can't wait till we get into covering mode and I hope you guys use a transparent monocote for strenght and looks. Those are some beautiful wings in the sunlight with a transparent covering. Now on to Tinks build to see if I can encourage
him to post some pictures.

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[ronrange]

Not receiving a whole lot of feedback or questions on the build. Is anyone or watching or have comments.

Welcome all.

[McLeodAviation]

Not receiving a whole lot of feedback or questions on the build. Is anyone or watching or have comments.

Welcome all.

I'm subscribed and watching. I really like the Floater G-110 and your build is looking great. I can't wait to see your finished model.

[Steve Stenbom]

Also subscribed and watching. And enjoying. I'm on the list for kit #8.!! But no rush. I'm currently dusting off my building skills with a Gnome 2M on the board. Steve

[rabidrue1]

Ron I am watching and I don't have any real questions as most of what you are doing looks just fine.I think that my only question would be on the center section brass tube joiners,it looks to me as if they just glue to the holes in the ribs and the face side of the spars.Do they get wedges and some kind of boxing in to tie them to the spars or are they just glued to one side of the spar?

[ronrange]

Rabid,

Good question. One pic shows the tubes just temp epoxied to stabilize. Subsequently the forward underside sheeting is added and the tubes are 'boxed in' so to speak, generous amounts of slow drying epoxy.

[cn0rris]

I'm watching. I love the old designs.

[condor-60]

......Rabid the tubes are actually encapsulated but not shown as of yet in Rons pictures. The tubes rest against the spares loosely as you join the wing halves together for alignment then they are epoxied in place.Once set they are then braced with scrap spruce spare material( Wedges as you call them) that have been tapered to accomadate the top and bottom of the tube and totaly soaked in epoxy. At this stage an additional doubler is added to the bare side of the tube to totaly encapsulate the tubing area. This is the way Frank Zaic designed it and it seems to be a very strong union.

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[rabidrue1]

Yup all boxed in like that it should be plenty strong.Hows the fuse coming along condor?

[condor-60]

Rabid the fuselage is coming along just great,I should be painting the major components this week-end. I solved my little problem with some Sullivan Golden-Rods,
they are great and will include them in the kit.Wish I could post some pictures but my charger for my camera has been mis-placed and my camera is dead. I will circumnavigate this little problem soon and post some pics. It really an easy build.

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[condor-60]

......Just got word today that my Floater Fuselage kits are being cut at the Laser place and will ship at the beginning of this coming week. For those interested in getting a head start on building your Floater just contact me. Ron has just about
concluded the rib adjustment and the wings will be available soon. Thanks for all of your patience in this as it will soon be available as a full production kit real soon.

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[condor-60]

.......Ron here are a few pics of the Floater fuselage that I painted yesterday. Its a plane Jane white right now but should come alive with a little trim work. I'll start on the tail feathers and finish up tomorrow.

Berry
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