Jasco Floater G-110 revisited

[tinkrerpilot]

Just when you thought you had seen the last of a few hard to find kits of your favorite models fade off to a nonexsistence phase in our hobby. Some one come alongs and decides to revisit a model that started their interest rc models. That gentleman is Condor60, looking to offer up the model that has flown by many. This was my start too. Having some good tutors along the way to help get everything into one neat package to take wing.

I now have the chance to relive the past with this offering from Condor60 in a proof build of the Jasco Floater G-110 produced by Frank Zaic in the late 60's and early 70's. Then again offered by Great Northern Model Engineering Company in 1991 with limited production. You may find a few of the original kits around, commanding a high price, but a kit worth building.

I will be starting a build thread here shortly (this weekend) along with my second build partner WronRange, who is also the CAD worker for this endeavor. I recieved the kit last friday, and have been studying some the parts and the plans noting some of the minor items that have came up prior to the build. SO far all minor in nature. So far this kit looks very promising.
Condor60 has done a great job putting this together in such a short time.
Stay tuned for more on the build. He will be watching the build and commenting as we go.

tink

[TheNightowl]

All subbed up.. Lemme get some popcorn....

Nightowl

[Buran]

Very good, this will be cool :D

[rabidrue1]

Give an e-power conversion list for that beast and sign me up!

[Bob Cook]

Hi Lyle,

After building the Riser 112, this is going to be a great thread to watch. I'll be secretly planning how to put an AXI in the nose.

Bob in Seattle

[tinkrerpilot]

rabid.

Already have thought on that. Thinking of what Bob has in his Riser. I need to get through the primary build of the glider version first so that Condor60 can get these out to the guys that would like to build one. I had one with the power pod made and sandwiched between the wings with an .09 Cub motor on it. Never had a problem withthe CoG. Flawless. Plane was a blast to fly. So electric would be a viable option. Keep that thought in mind. Let me get the dimensions on the nose area and lets see what fits. First things first. I have a goal with this model and Condor60 does not think I can do it. Its a personnal thing. Talk more about this later. On with the build.

Parts will start going down when I get home from work on Friday night. Should have some pictures for you guys on Saturday.

[tinkrerpilot]

buran and nightowl,

Bob and rabid, thanks for the support guys.

Bob, you get to see me actually build one this time..........LOL

thanks for joining in.

Got questions please ask, got ideas or suggestions? Lets here them. Condor 60 is in the background and watching how this goes. I would hate to be a disappointment. Knowing that there are going to some snags with a new kit. Ante up guys. I am just the builder.

[condor-60]

Bob I will try and send some pictures of the Floater G-110's nose. They may help you
by giving you an idea as to how you may place a motor in the glider. I think with the light radio's and batterys we have today the Floater would stay up for ever. The Floater sported a 7.9 oz wing loading when it was around in the 1970's and the radio equipment was called bricks and some weighed as much as bricks. So like I say it might stay up quite awhile. That 1/16th plywood pod and boom hardly weighs nothing but is as strong as a Sherman.

Condor-60

[condor-60]

Bob here ya go.

Condor-60

[Bob Cook]

Thanks Condor, Scottie and I are always doing something fun, and this is going to be a fun build.

Bob in Seattle

[condor-60]

Off topic but what the heck. Looks like you and Tink are in for some bad weather if you aren't all ready getting it. I was watching the weather channel awhle ago and boy it don't look too good for you chaps.

Condor-60

[Bob Cook]

HI Condor,

Your right. They are telling everyone to be prepaired for the worst. Power out, trees down, heavy snow, high winds. Tink may be building this thing by candle light. We'll keep you posted.

Bob in Seattle

[Thermaler]

Condor, the build threads are something else I will add to the Floater page when I get off my lazy behind and finish the additions to the web site.
The Red Hen pages put a hold on HTML writing. Even this short message hurts the digits!!

Joe

[condor-60]

Thermaller don't know exactly what you mean.

Condor-60

[condor-60]

Thermaler I remember now. The nostalgia question I ask you. I just didn't tie you in with your User Name. Yes I would appreciate it being added to your web site.
Whenya gonna get off you lazy behind and do it. Ha,Ha.

Condor-60

[Captain Canardly]

Now that is definately nostalic art at it's best! I was wondering where ya got the new Avatar, there Tink!

[rabidrue1]

Looks like I could use the same motor in this one as i used in the riser 100.This is one good looking sailplane even though the canard is in the tail,I may just have to have one.

[tinkrerpilot]

Thanks CC. I was given a very generous offer that I simply could not refuse. A chance to build my first RC model all over again. That was 35 years ago. WOW!!

Rabid, I'll get you some dimensions off the nose to see what you can come up with for a motor setup. I am thinking more of what Bob has in his Riser. IIRC an AXI 2808.

[rabidrue1]

Looks like an easy mod Tink,with very little rework it should be no problem to fit a 1 3/4 spinner to the nose and by keeping the side contour about the same look it should allow for the down thrust as well.I counted the 1/8" nose laminations and have a good idea of the size of the nose block.I have an E flite 15 out runner on hand and it should fit in fine.One of my trusty Berg 7 channel receivers a T/P 2100 ma pack and a pair of Hs 82 m/g servos should fit right in and keep the wing loading low enough.

[rabidrue1]

Condor-60 How do I get my hands on a kit?

[condor-60]

....Rabid the kits will become available only after the builds are finished. I have WronRange doing a bulild for me also. Ron was the gentleman that also did my Cad work for the many laser cut parts. Rabid the builds are designed to critique the kit
and to offer up any suggestions on improvements or to let me know of any mis-fitting parts before offering them for sale. Just hang in there and give me credit for doing
the right thing for when I do release them I want nothing but the best of feedback
on my kits.This has been an exasperating ordeal for the pass four or more monthes
getting this project off the ground,Tink can verify that. I do appreciate your interest
tho so just sit back like me and enjoy the build and lets see what happens as the kits
will be available soon.

Thanks a million
Condor-60

[ronrange]

I'm not a pro at either the computer nor experienced at participating in build threads. That being said, I have some pictures and thoughts to offer on the build of the kit for the G-110 that Berry Nellums is developing. As is the case with Gobug, the other builder, it was my first RC sailplane also.

I have been away from building for some time and almost forgotten how much fun cutting, sanding, and gluing can be. This project is a laser cut kit and as such minimizes the time required for cutting and sanding.

I hope the picture posting works out well. If anyone has any questions regarding the build, feel free to post online and I will try to respond.

[rabidrue1]

Looks like you have the right guys to debug the plans and kit,I know all too well the bugs that can sneak into the mfg of of things.I'll sit back and watch for now but if you find a need for someone to sort out a conversion to E power keep me in mind.I have projects in the works but I could clear the bench for this one in an eye blink.It's because I have a soft spot in my head,err heart for old timey stuff. scottie

[ronrange]

Lyle,

I guess I sorta jumped the gun on you and did not intend to offend by getting onto your thread. These are some of the pics that I have of the components and the stab assembly. Berry suggests that I should start my own build thread and I believe he is right. Let me hear from you please.

[rabidrue1]

ronrange-perhaps you and tink should build in tandem as the cross banter should be interesting and informative as well.Not only that but it would save the rest of us time by not having to look at two threads.

[condor-60]

Scottie you mentioned a soft spot for old timey stuff. Do you think the "Nostalgia" Crowd would be interested in the G-110. It has no mods that I injected and will be kitted just the way Zaic designed it. I kinda wished there was a "Nostalgia" forum
so those like you could follow along.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

Nostalgia is fine as long as the wing spars are up to snuff,I have a fair collection of old timer models and I love them all.But I like to see I beam spars rather than the old balsa single spars from back in the day.

[Bob Cook]

So Scottie, why can't you build and old timer plane with an updated spar ? No one will notice under the covering.

Bob in Seattle

[Captain Canardly]

Condor!
do I understand you have a laser supplier, ready to answer and deliver?! That's great!
Willing to help anyway possible, Got a great reason to get deeper into the solid drawings now!
Johnny

[condor-60]

Johnny I had Ron West work up the Cad program,he is RonRange in the forum and doing the second build for me. I located a company to do my laser work with a good turn around time and off I went. If you planning on doing what I did with an older kit good luck,be prepared to spend a little $$$$$. It was fun tho and very enjoyable to see the bits and pieces come together on this project. Laser cutting is the only way
to go with the Floater G-110 as the fuselage is 1/16th plywood (Pod and Boom) and
would be very difficult to cut accuratly. I know this because my first idea was to just to duplicate this fantastic fuselage and just sell them on Ebay. No matter how hard I tried I just could not get it right. I thought to myself,what the hell why not just try and kit the whole thing. After many months of preparation I have finally reach my
goal and I wish to THANK all for the support I was given and I was given a lot.
Hopefully my builds will show things I missed or things I need to change or add.
Getting a Frank Zaic kit together is an adventure believe me. Frank was a master
at designing gliders especially for free flight but saw the writing on the wall as the
hobby slowly started to go Radio Control. The Floater G-110 I think was his second
design in this new era of electronics,the first I think was a Radio Controlled Thermic
100. The Floater G-110 was my first glider I ever built and on my third flight I got
a 48-minute Thermal flight. That flight has burned in my mind ever since and it was fun watching those with Oly-II's and Windrifters looking for a place to land and my Floater still hanging in there and going up. I hope the builds will show little or no problems with the kits as I am ready to offer them for sale. They have been many,many inquiries from those that are standing by ready to purchase but I want to
offer quality. I will sell a complete kit, also separate kits for the fuselage and wing.
Frank Zaic shows how you can add an additional 20-inches to the wing making the Floater a G-130,I may add that also. The kits will come with a complete set of plans with an Instructional manual of about 30-pages.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

A 130" option!Now I know I need to get in line for one.Bob-I've built all my old timers with updated spars,it just seems that sometimes the nostalgia crowd tends to look down on these mods like folding wings is sacred or something.

[condor-60]

Rabid my lifelong friend Ken Cashion from Picayune,Ms. built a G-130 along with the G-110 seen here on my label. Ken was our club president and has been my lifelong guru.
I remember the day he showed up at the field with it as it was an awesome sight to
behold. The only thing missing was the theme from 2001:A SPACE ODYSSY being played. The "Nostalgia" crowd should not have any complaints because its an option
to the G-110 by Frank Zaic himself. Tinkerpilot has expressed an interest in building this
additional wing section after he builds it as a G-110. Maybe he will do a build so we can follow alone. Rabid the G-130 is one big ass airplane and it will turn heads every
time you expose it to a crowd.

Condor-60

[FoamCrusher]

The kits will come with a complete set of plans with an Instructional manual of about 30-pages.
I am one of those waiting in the wings for a kit...but I am more than willing to wait for one that is "de-bugged".

In my limited experience of about 5 balsa planes built from kits, and one from a short kit, what separates a "quality kit" that is a joy to build from those that are not is not how well the plans are drawn, not the highest quality of balsa (although that helps), but it is how well the instructions are written.

For those with many many kits under their belts the other factors are probably more important, but for those of us who do not have a great deal of experience upon which to fall back the instructions make or break the build. RC Groups build threads and all the helpful people here can (and has) saved the day, but a well written set of instructions makes all the difference.

For example, the instructions for Don Stackhouse's DJ Aerotech 2 meter Electric Chrysalis (http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_product/chrysalis2m-e.html) are just about idiot proof. Don assumes the builder is a novice and therefore uses short, clear, and unambiguous sentences with many keyed drawings and he highlights critical steps. An experienced builder can rush right through the build just occasionally checking the instructions, but those of us who are not experienced have something upon which to fall back and in the end finish with a positive feeling toward what we have done and toward Don for his work. I will certainly buy another of his kits.

Don also keeps the instructions on his computer and prints them off one at a time only as needed so when builders suggest modifications to clear up an issue he can quickly add it for the next set of plans rather than failing to change them when he should because he already has 200 printed sets on the shelf.

The Carl Goldberg Gentle Lady instructions are also very good and have stood the test of 30+ years of beginning builders. They appear to have been well written right from the start.

On the other end of the scale is a kit whose name I will not mention. It assumes you have been building kits for years and almost don't require instructions. It was a real struggle for me. The instructions conflicted in places, were written in a clipped style that was difficult to read and showed little effort to assist the builder - they left you on your own. The result was that I made a few mistakes in the order of the steps and several times had to tear out what I had already glued, sometimes damaging laser cut parts that had to be refabricated by hand. The finished product came out OK, but my feelings toward the completed product are not positive because of the cumulative hard feelings acquired from each error. The net result is that I will not purchase another kit from that company, at least until my building skills improve. Had there even been a warning about the difficulty of the build I would have felt better about the whole experience.

So, if you are making this kit for experience builders then do people like me a favor; at least warn us that it is a difficult or lightly supported build. (There is nothing wrong with a lack of instructions BTW - I did a short kit of a 1940's free flight plane from sheet plans and expected it would be a challenge - it was - but I knew what I was in for and accepted it). I would rather have no instructions than poorly written ones.

UPS just delivered a SIG Riser 100 for Santa so I know what is up next on the board, but I can easily put that on hold for something else...like the Floater. BTW, these have all been electrics and that is my intention for the Floater. I will do a mini-build of the necessary modifications for the conversion to assist others who are so inclined.

[/rant]

FC

[Bob Cook]

Hi FC,

Your right about the importance of good instructions. I built my Riser 112 (100) with the help of many friends here on the Groups. The instructions were good. I'm now building a Chrysalis. Don's instructions are air tight, sorry about that, for a beginner. It's only my second kit build, but it's going very well.
I agree with you, as ,long as you know what level the instructions are written to, it's OK when you buy it. No suprises.
I'm sure the Floater's will be fine.

Bob in Seattle

[Bob Cook]

Hi Condor,

Funny you mention all those places in La. My X-wife is from Slidel, La. It was a LOT different from Washington !!! Smile.

Bob in Seattle

[condor-60]

..FoamCrusher there is nothing more comprehensive than a Frank Zaic set of plans. Those that have built his kits know what I mean. Frank puts notes all over the place
and in reality a manual is really not needed. It was my first glider as a beginner and I
was able to build it when I had never built a balsa model before. When you open up the plans you will see how the Floater goes together as it is very straight forward and
full of notes scattered all around by Frank himself. Zaic leaves nothing that will confuse you and in reality a manual is really not needed as all the info is on the plans .
FoamCrusher just study the plans for a few moments and follow what is being said in the notes and you will not have any problems.The G-110 is a very easy glider to build
and Zaic shows how to accomplish each step your working on.
The manual was written by a company called The Great Northern Model Engineering Co.
and they added a few things that was different than the original model kit. An example beings they show an optional dihedral for the wings in case you want a more competitive G-110 and they also show adding diagonal bracing to the inboard wing panels to prevent flutter. The rest of the manual is just a good step by step of the Zaic plans. The diagonal bracing is a good idea and they have already been introduced into the kit. I would have to say the Floater G-110 is as easy to build as an Airtronics
Oly-II because I have built both. The Airtronic's kits were pure quality and hard to surpass in simplicity.

Condor-60

[condor-60]

...Bob small world,huh. I also lived in Slidell for awhile. Bob you are living in God's country now. We folks in Louisiana have to deal with hurricanes,alligaters,cotton mouths,humidity,heat and worse
of all the those little blood sucking things that you hear
humming around your head at night.

Codor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

ronrange
no problem here for you jumping the gun and posting the pictures. Glad you gotthat opne sorted out. pretty easy once you understand it. In a way I am glad you did. My camera took a dive in to the snow we have here and is in the process of drying it out.
My stab work is completed except for final sanding on the stab and elevator. Will do all the sanding at one time since I moved the build into the main part of the house. To cold to build anywhere else at this time.
Noted a few problems on the stab, minor in nature built still something that needs to be addressed. Center section of the stab is a built up sandwich affair that goes together pretty quick. Time spent was only a couple of hours.

More shopping tonight and another drive in the snow and freezing rain.

FC and Rabid,
Can certanily understand the electric thing. This would make a good cenversion
to electric by all means. Let us get the bugs worked out of the kit first. I would be willing to go this route also. Have one of each. or at least a fuselage for the electric side. This model lends itself will to almost any modification you guiys would want to do.

Condor-60 has a passion for this plane just as I do, and the many other guys that got their start with this plane. Lets get the build down and see where it goes from there.

[tinkrerpilot]

FoamCrusher

Got to agree with condor-60 on the Zaic plans and the way they are laid out. Very simple and very easy to follow. What is one of the first things they tell you in anything that comes with instructions. Read the instructions first. The plans are laid out the way. every section is covered on the sheet that is building that particular piece.
Final assembly is covered all the way though. If you look at the stab pictures that ronrange has up, you can see that on the plans. Myself included, this was my first glider to build and fly. It could have very well been a GL or a Oly or Riser. But I picked this one. Never a regret with it. Later done the road I built a second one with a modified V-tail. sold it thirteen years later, still flying.
tink

[rabidrue1]

Alright I'll sit back shut up and watch the build,however by the time the kit comes out I'll have chewed my finger nails to the bone and will be half way to doing the same to my toes.I think I built most of the jasco kits back in the day and I miss themThe wait is going to be tough.

[tinkrerpilot]

Ah come rabid. Its not all that bad. You have been in toughter positions before. No pressure here but on me and ronrange. He has another thread started for his build.Should have pics here some. Camera got wet playng in the snow here. So I have it drying out. Condor-60 has done a great job getting this kit together in such a short time. Just have to find the shortcomings in the kit. Typical with any new kit that comes out.

[condor-60]

....Rabid your fingernail biting will be short lived. Tinkerpilot said he'll be flying the G-110 sometimes between Christmas and New Years. Sorry Tink I couldn't
resist that opening. I had to spare poor rabid the agony of the fingernail and
toenail biting.Tink do you know how painfull that is. Just think about it.Having to use a wheel chair in a grassy field and then having to have someone turn your glider on for you. What about the kid you brought along to operate your
radio,how do you know he won't chase a Volkswagon down on the freeway with it. Really the worse thing is not being able to use tissue paper for those special moments. Come on Tink I know you can do it. Ha,Ha. Gotcha.

Just picking at both of you.

Condor-60

[Esprit2]

Willing to help anyway possible, Got a great reason to get deeper into the solid drawings now!
CC,

Just make it fly backwards.
;-)

Tim

[Captain Canardly]

That certainly looks easy enough! wonder if Condor would be hunting me down, though!

[condor-60]

....Tim I have actually Flown the Floater G-110 backwards by matching its forward motion with the current windspeed and pulling its nose up just a little. It then would start to drift backwards a little and start a gentle movement iin that direction. It looked like one of those Canardly looking thangs from a distance. I use to impress my young sons by getting up to speck altitude and matching airspeed with windspeed
and bringing it down vertically and land in a predetermined circle while the G-110 remained in the horizontal. The old gliders of yesteryear could do many things that
was so enjoyable. I think with the new things that are called gliders today miss the point of soaring. They all seem to want to out tech one another and fly around the
sky like rockets, Gone are the days of just sitting back and betting your flying buddy
you can stay up longer than him or pulling out the binoculars,laying on your back in the grass and hope you can maintain in its view that little speck in the sky. I once had a Hobbie Hawk in a thermal in full verticle mode and it was still going up. It was a hell of a thermal and I almost lost it. I would have loved being up there and seeing that thing going up tail first. CC just kiddin about that Canardly looking thang,the Canard designs are unique and very
flyable. The fastest passenger plane in the world was a Canard so that must say something.

Condor-60

[Bob Cook]

Hi Condor,

I think you forgot fire ants. I was there for a 2 week vacation in April many yrs. ago. It was fun and I saw a lot of cool stuff. But, I'm glad I'm here now.

Bob in Seattle

[condor-60]

...Bob you hit the nail in the head with that reminder. The Louisiana fire ant is the only species of ants that growl atcha. If they get on you,you must not piss-off the bugler.
Do you know what I mean by that last statement.

Condor-60

[Bob Cook]

No Condor, I don't, sorry.

Bob in Seattle

[DT56]

No Condor, I don't, sorry.

Bob in Seattle


The "Bugler" is the ant that is in charge of the attack. It waits until your leg is covered with ants before "sounding" the chemical attack signal.

My most memorable experience with Mr. Bugler was while trimming grass from a ditch just before dark one evening. Had fire ants up both legs to the waist, before the bugler blew the charge horn. :eek: :censored: Glad it was almost dark, because I was out of those pants before reaching the house.

[condor-60]

...DT56 How tha heck did you know that. You are absolutly right. I made that little quip up this summer when my little wife came running in the house one afternoon
after working in her flower bed with fire ants all over her legs. She said they all started biting her at one time and I emmediatly thought of a calvary charge.I told her for the first time you must have pissed off the bugler. This is weird.

Condor-60

[DT56]

...DT56 How tha heck did you know that. You are absolutly right. I made that little quip up this summer when my little wife came running in the house one afternoon
after working in her flower bed with fire ants all over her legs. She said they all started biting her at one time and I emmediatly thought of a calvary charge.I told her for the first time you must have pissed off the bugler. This is weird.

Condor-60

I know it because I'm also from the Gulf Coast region. :)

[condor-60]

....You guys just hang in there as I know TinkerPilot will be getting back with us soon.
Tink and Bob Cook is having a bad winter storm in there part of world right now and
wouldn't doubt that Tink ain't building the G-110 by candle light about right now.
Tink I know you must be having problems right now so overlook my humor
as you probably have no power to fire up your P.C.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

Come on tink get the mice on the tread mill to run the generator and start building.The first 2 fingers on my right hand are about to bleed from the chewing.

[tinkrerpilot]

Rabid,

work is in progression, but work is a little more demanding. Have to get the pre holidays business affairs out of the way. And then the next 12 days are mine. Will see how far I get . Camera has dried out from the snow play time. Will get going full bore after tonight. Stab is done with noted problems. Will post pictures later tonight. Little hard from having to be called into work early today. ronrange started the wings, I am moving onto the fuselage next, saving the wings for last. Got to build the big ones before I can build the little ones. Thanks for the patience on this. Stay tuned.

[condor-60]

....Hey guys go to RonRanges BUILD he's doing a good job on getting it going and has a
few interesting pictures to show. Ron is an excellant builder as it shows in the stab joints.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

I hear you on the work thing tink,I'm trying to button up all the junks today so we can shut down for a week.Condor 60 I looked at what Ron is up to and and all is looking fine so far

[condor-60]

Merry Christmas everyone.

Condor-60

[rabidrue1]

O/K Tink Christmas is over so it's time to start sweating over the bench. :)

[aeronca52]

Hello Condor, when the kits are available where will you make the announcement? Any idea of $$? Just wondering so I know where to stand in line. :D

[tinkrerpilot]

Yeah believe me I am. I will hope fully have some pictures later tonight. The weather warmed up some and the gutters are not frozen and the big Holiday rush and feast is over. So ow I have some work to do.

[condor-60]

.....It appears at this time the kit will sale for $169.00 not including shipping.I have done all I can at this point to cut as much cost down as I could. The laser cutting is great but very costly. There are some more items to be added for the laser that was overlooked by Ron that will be needed for the kit,not including perhaps some items I will still need to add after the guys doing the build report back to me. For those that may be interested in a kit,I am starting a priority list. Just email me and you will be given a number on a list that I will make,my email address is bnellums@bellsouth.net
I will email you back with your number so you will know where you stand with a status on your order and shipping charges to your zip code. You will send me no money until
your number comes up and I notify you that your kit is ready for shipping. I will accept
PayPal,U.S. Postal Money Order and personal checks. Now that the snow storms and the Christmas Holidays are behind us I have a feeling that the builds will takeoff. I have
yet not determined the cost for a Fuselage or Wing kit that will be sold separatly or a
set of Plans with Manual for those diehard scratch builders out there. Should these be
of interest just email me. These items will not be considered Short Kits as they will include all the material needed for that project. I once ordered a Short Kit for a Thermic 100 wing and I was surprised at what little I got. This was right after I got back in the hobby after being away for 40-years and back when no one had ever
heard of a short kit. I can promise with anything I sell you you will get more than just a stack of ribs. You will get material for the entire wing or fuselage. I am not doing this for the money as there is very little profit in this endeaver. I just want to see the
Floater G-110 back gracing our skys again and hear people say "boy Frank Zaic sure knew how to make some Great Sailplanes"

Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Berry
Sounds like a good plan. I would just start a waiting list and go from there. List them as they request them. Your idea is a good one. Meanwhile I will keep plugging along.
Fuselage is in the works.

Been working on the bird most of the day. Gaining ground but is a little slow. been along time since I have built from the box. Computer is giving me fits tonight. Seems a Christmas bug has worked into the system.

[condor-60]

....Ron just emailed me a little while ago wanting to know if I was ready for some
winch shots of the Floater. Said he had some good shots (telephoto) of it coming off the tow ring and that all was good.

Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Have him post them in his build pages. That would be great.

[condor-60]

Cheer up ole man just picking atcha. I thought I would get ya hemmoroids vibrating a little.

Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Will be posting pictures today. Got the computer and the camera up and running. May not be as good as ROn's. But it will show that I am hard at work on it.

[Bob Cook]

AAHHHhhhh Lyle, your doing a fine job of it, indeed !!! My modified Riser stab is 27" wide too. That's a lota stab. I guess it makes sence because this plane is 110" and mine is 112" I'll be gluing right with you today. Gonna be doing some J & I today and then Laterials Functional Test.

Bob in Seattle

[tinkrerpilot]

Morning Bob,
Thanks for checking in. Fun when I built this thing years ago, that stab did not seem that large. But man this has been alot of work, unlike the Riser stab, although highly enjoyable. Did not have half of the cool tools back then like I do now. One of the things that made this easier is the Miter Sander from Fourmost Products. Great tool to have in the building area.
Have checked out Ron's progress up in his thread? He is a little (alot) a head of me.
But looking very good. And yes we are having some fun now. Glad to have the support and inspiration from Berry to do this build. ANd the support from the other half that is getting a kick out it to. Likes watching a kid in the candy store as I get further along an seeing that box of sticks go towards somethng so graceful. Got to get back to it.

Lyle

[tinkrerpilot]

Well lets see if the picures load. may not be as good as Ron's but at least it shows some progress from me. Pics are of the build on the stab. Builds really quick if you have all the right tools for cutting angles. Take the time to make sure all the joints are true and tight.

Berry is also working laser cut stab center pieces and stab tips. Not a whole lot to building the tips up with balsa laminate.

[rabidrue1]

Looking good tink but alas a bit too late,during the latest round of nail biting while waiting for photos to show up I had a small mishap.

[tinkrerpilot]

Well here we go. Will have some more of the fuse build later tonight. Time to get some rest and do a few errands.

Sans a piece or two on the fin/rudder,
most complete less final sanding. Will do all the sanding at one time before final assembly.

Moving onto the fuselage. More later. Give me a little credit. First time doing a build thread. Is not as easy as it looks. Having to build and take pictures and posting is quite the job in itself.

Thanks for the support guys. Berry has done a fabulous job putting this together. Few minor items the iron out but all good, so far.

[tinkrerpilot]

OK Scottie! Are you happy now! I have picstures posted. Bob will pleased to see me actually building something here. This plane really brings back the memories from the days of getting started in this hobby and the long hours of putting one together. Then seaking out the help from other on how things go into the plane to make it all work. Flying was a real treat to watch the long hours take flight for the first time and trim it out. Still get the thrill of building this once again. Makes number three for me.

You guys really know how to push my buttons here. Week off from work and look what I am doing.

Berry you better sell a whole lot of these things. I would be glad to do another. (After this one).

Lyle

[rabidrue1]

You are rolling along well,I'll sit back and watch now and be quite right after put the end of my finger back on.

[tinkrerpilot]

OK guys! See here for ordering information. Posted on another thread here in the Thermal Section.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=973575

Talk to condor-60 (Berry Nellums), tell him tinkrerpilot sent ya!!

[ronrange]

Looking good . Keep up the good works.

[tinkrerpilot]

Thanks Ron. Not as fancy as yours, but I did get the pictures posted. It really has been awhile for a good build. Been checking in on yours and both are looking really nice. Tabby even has the colors picked out (almost). This is a really good build. I get to build somethnig that I enjoyed years ago, and she is interested in seeing how it all goes together. So I am teaching as we go. She is learning a whole nother side of the hobby. Very Nice. Win win all the way around.

Thanks Berry!!!
And to the gang here at RC Groups.

Back to buiilding, Have a time frame to meet.

Lyle

[tinkrerpilot]

OKay! Fuselage in work . Will have more pictures later today. Taperiing down the aft end of the boom at the tail mount. Gluing the bulkheads into the fusealage and prepping the tail to be installed. Tapering all the sticks down to proper size , it is handy to have a small pocket plane.
Cutting the splices for the tail boom spruce to get it to correct length was a little bit of a chore. This being done. The boom is ready to be assembled. Stay tune for pictures.

[condor-60]

The cutting and tapering of the spruce 1/4" X 1/4" tail boom stock is slightly a pain in the rear but has to be done by the builder as Zaic shows on the plans. I used a good zona saw and a couple files for that task and tho a small chore it came out as
designed. I can't wait for you guys to finish the fuselage so everyone can see how pretty it is. Ken Cashion the gentleman with the trophys and holding the Floater on my label knew Frank Zaic personaly said Zaic hand drew the pattern for the fuselage by hand. Ken said you would have thought he had used a set of French Curves for
that task but didn't. Your doing great ole man don't get your hemmoroids vibrating as
its still to early in the game.ha,ha.

Condor-60

[mike912e]

Hello to all !
Condor-60 called me at home last night to feel me out, as I had expressed a desire to be on his waiting list for the Floater 110 . Just to make a point, I agreed with him in the fact that the term " woodie " applied more to teenagers reaction to a pretty girl than to describing a vintage radio controlled model glider or sailplane .
Okay, so now you know that I agree with Condor-60 since we're both about the same age and flew most of the same gliders over the years . Besides, he likes vintage cars ( Porsches )as well and that makes him okay in my book .
I admire his ability to get er' done . Trying to start a sailplane kit, especially lazer cut , is a daunting task . Must have lots of patience and money . There are other worthy vintage sailplanes out there to do next , don't you think ?
I've read most of the discussion and have just a few comments/questions . Will the wing spars be I-beamed and shouldn't spoilers be incorporated into the design ? I am currently flying an OLY2, Aquila and Sagitta 600 using a hefty hi-start and looking at the spar design of the Floater wonder if it would require a smaller bungee . And spoilers would be a big plus for those days when the Floater gets real small and is getting smaller real fast !
I'm almost old enough to retire and I'm looking forward to many hours of relaxed sailplane flying and the Floater will probably be one of my favorites .

Thanks for listening.
mike912e

[rabidrue1]

Scarfs and tapers on spruce are easy if you use these tricks.First thing get a low angle block plane,a small one about 4" long over all,not a razor plane as these can chatter because of the thin blade.Next try out your new plane on some scrap wood and sharpen the blade and set the cut so you can remove about .002" of wood with a light pass of the plane.Next and this is the big "trick"Any wood depending on the grain will plane better in one direction than the other,so take a test swipe with the plane on what will be scrap and see how it works out.Try to set up the grain in the wood so the plane cuts best when you push the plane away from you and the taper runs down hill.

[condor-60]

Mike it was great chatting with you last night ,I really enjoyed our conversation espacially on that grand Porsche you have. All black inside and out,that just spells
mean to the bone. Mike the Floater has been replicated (bet ya don't know where
I got that word from) exactly like Zaic designed it. It has no I-Beam construction
in the wings which would be better but it wasn't designed in that configuration.
I am trying to offer it as it was kitted in the 1970's and hoping to maybe draw some interest from the "Nostalga" crowd if I can. Go to the other build as Ron West has
started his wing sections and you can see what I am talking about. Zaic designed
the Floater wings as Cantilever meaning they are designed to flex. The Floater was
designed for hi-starts and the kind of winches that were available in the 1970's and
did quite well with those earlier winches. One must understand that with todays winches the Floater is not one of those carbon Fibre things that can take a hard
pedal rocket launch. The Floater is a Vintage Radio Control Sailplane and should be
considered as such. The vintage Windrifter,original OLY-II's and Oly 99's would suffer the same fate as the Floater if launched that way,simply put the wings would fold.
In closed is a picture of my Porsche and once I can figure out how to get into Fort Knox I will have one.

Berry
Condor-60

[condor-60]

......A little humor from me to you.

Condor-60

[Captain Canardly]

Great Humor Condor!
I'm gonna start saving my pocket change for a 'real' bird!
johnny

[tinkrerpilot]

Here are some of the fuselage pictures with it going together. Not much time spent here. Self aligns for the most part. Glue all over the fingers. Mkaing sure it aligns correctly. Getting ready to glue the fuse bottom in and then retape it up to hold the sides and bottom together. Very solid in construction. Once set there is no twisting in the pod at all.
Boom coming up next.

[tinkrerpilot]

Boom construction goes pretty easy. The only hard part is getting the taper down on the end of the boom at the tail. Took a few swipes with the razor plane to get teh correct taper. The top spruce piece has a double taper. Down each side and along the bottom to clear the control rods and pieces during control rigging.

I have flown two of these models over the years and never had one failure in the tail boom. Shoot, to think about it, never had a problem at all with the pod and boom at all. Makes the plane easy to handle on the ground during launch and general flying. Thinking back on how much better it performed compared to an Oly II. Seemed to signal lift alot better. Granted it is not designed for speed, typical gas bag type. It sure makes for a graceful bird to watch on the wing.
Grab the lawn chair sit back and enjoy.

Will be folloowing up with pod and boom join to complete the fuselage work.
MOre coming at you.

[tinkrerpilot]

condor-60
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Got to think about it. But Ron got an early jump on me. Still pluggin along. Fuse lage is just about done and wings coming up. Had a nice chat with Ron the other night aboutthe wings. Will see how mine go together. See if I have the same issues.

Mike, Glad to have you join us. Great to have someone on board that can keep Berry in line sort of. Good to know that you know what sort of endeavor that Berry is going through. Mild blessing in some ways to bring the grand model back to the present. Hope you get a chance to build one as some of have at some point in time. This build has truly been a good one.

CC, you may have to get one just to say that you ahve done one. Would love to see what you could do with it, after watching you and your canards. Thanks for jumping in
and watching.

rabidrue1 , Knew I could count on you for the great tips an advice. One can always learn something in this fine hobby ours. Great tip. Thanks for the support.

Back to the building board.

[rabidrue1]

Tink if you want I can send you details of my scarfing jig.I use it to scarf join spars up too 3/8" square with up to 20/1 scarfs.It isn't hard to build and will work with a cheap low angle block plane from Stanley or some such.

[condor-60]

....Dad Damn Tink you never cease to amaze me.Great shots of fuselage construction and I am glad the laser work is tight. That Floater fuselage is a Zaic masterpiece in Zaic engineering. I think I mentioned somewhere that Frank hand drew that thing and did not use a set of french curves. Once built that pod and boom is a very pretty thing to behold. Beings its plywood it can be stained in any color that will accent your wing covering. When I built mine many years ago I stained it with a natural finish and it really looked great. Thanks for the good work. Tell Canardly he might be able to put the tow hook a little back from the Stab area and make a incidence change and fly it backwards like those Canardly looking gliders.

Thanks Tink
Berry
Condor-60

[Bob Cook]

Man Tink, your going flat out now ol boy !!!! I'm right on your tail over on my thread. The chips are flying everywhere.

Bob in Seattle

[condor-60]

.....Tink the picture of the plans your showing appears that the upper sptuce boom strip is tapered on all four sides is correct. I haven't started building mine yet as I have been involved in making jigs for an ARF version less covering. Probably won't sell any but who knows.Its been such a while that I built one I had to take a double look at that area.

Berry
Condor-60

[tinkrerpilot]

Rabid,
Just post the information here on the thrread and we can all marvel at your wisdom with the block plane. Love to see information like that. Although I already have my scarfs made. Still not a problem. Anything to simplify a problem, someone will share a solution.

condor-60
Guess it pays to be a little behind the cad programmer in this situation. Have been talking to ronrange on some of the minor issues and comparing notes. We have a few problems with the side sheeting on the boom not being the correct length, Just a tad bit short. Worked thru that and have resolved it for the most part. Easy fix that most will not see on these two proto builds.
Thanks for the comments on the pictures. Will show the coompleted fuselage when ronrange and I get there, We are discussing some ideas on the tow hook location and maybe some alternate ideas there. Reviewing what is available to us. I could snag the original out of my full kit that has been set aside. Wil keep that kit complete for a later time.
The top spruce piece of the boom has a triple taper to it. Both left and right side to conform to the tail and the bottom side is tapered to clear the control rod exit points. Just have to study the plan for a minute and it all makes sense. Still plugging along.
More pictures later.

Bob in Seattle,

We may have a double maiden flight if things keep going the way they are. Been following you thread too. Reminds of what some of you guys get stuck in. One type builds. CC with his canards, which are just beautiful, and Bob with his twin boom affairs. We all have our little things to enjoy. But with this bunch of guys, that factor is very diverse in all applications. Great job by all, no matter what your application is.

CC,
Got any ideas on this and how to swap the ends around to make a feasible canard flyer? Just a thought. Still, I am thinking about the Sir Regis, and doing that one, one day. Glad to have you here .

To all of you. Thanks for a very good year here on RC Groups. LIke to wish all of you a Happy Year! Looking forward to a new year in 2009 with more building and flying in the upcoming year.

Thanks,
tink

[Bob Cook]

Hi Tink,

Yah, this hobby is a very diverse group. Just in Sailplane alone, there are 9 divisions of interest. Everybody finds thier nitch and settles in. It's a fun thing and the knowlegde sharing is out standing. This IS the club that I belong to. I love it.

Bob in Seattle

[condor-60]

.....Bob here are a few pics for you. My friend Ken Cashion (the gentleman on my label)
built this twin boom sailplane in the mid 1970's. He scratch built it from plans in one of
the model airplanes magazines

[Captain Canardly]

Tink!
It looks quite easy and great looking! maybe Condor can help convince Rabid that the twin boomed canard is already designed!

[tinkrerpilot]

Berry, great looking pictures. Any idea what the name of the plane is? And what model magazine was it from? That would make a great sailplane or electric!

Anyway, here are a few more pictures of the boom assembly. Glued the bottom spruce piece into place, then the top one. Reason for more clamps on the top then the bottom. Will use weights to glue the other side down to this structure to keep the boom straight.

Wings are getting ready to go down on the board here soon. Punching out all the ribs and pieces first. Fuselage has to be ready to come up first before that happens.

[tinkrerpilot]

Hey Captain, You think we would have a hard time convincing him of that. With the photos that Condor posted. Think it would pretty simple. Sure Bob will come in with a comment or two on the twin boom setup. Looking forward to you guys and the Sir Regis build.
Ok back to the table...............

[rabidrue1]

Looks like you are humming right along on this one tink,keep the photos coming,my nails are growing back.

[Jim Deck]

I believe the twin-boomed sailplane in Post #93 is a "Boomer". It's a Bert Striegler design published in 1977 "Model Builder". Unfortunately, I don't know the month but I do happen to have a copy of the full sized plans that I'd be glad to send to an eager builder. This plane would sure turn a few heads at a Nostalgia competition.

[tinkrerpilot]

Rabid, moving right along. Still tacking behind Ron somewhat. But I am getting there.
Probably the fastest build I have done in a long time. Not moving like a slug with Bob and his Riser. Sorry Bob! Still under the gun to get'er done. I know Berry is on the sideline waiting for Ron and I to get done and fly these birds so that you guys can get yours. I have no problems other then some of the woood sizes are not true stock. Some of the 1/4" aquare stock is not square stock. A lttle over on one side and the n a little under on the other. Minor problem. Just something that I have to report to Berry on. OOppps,
know he nows. The kit will take some modeling skills to complete. I would not say it is not for a beginner. Some could take it on with no experience just a tad bit longer to build. Shoot this "WAS" my first model and it turned out fine.
Just have to pay attention to the details and the views on the drawing. Once you understand the drawing the rest is easy. It shows the build sequence all the way through. The build manual that Condor-60 has would be more of a guide.

Besides, it is snowing again outside here and we have a couple of inches on the ground. So will just take today and sit and work on this monster and see how close I can get to Ron. I do know that he has his wings down on the board.

Jim,
I'll take you up on that offer for the plans. It is a very good looking model. I think I may have some one that would be good at his first scratch built. A copy would be nice. Send me a PM.

Stay tuned more coming.

[tinkrerpilot]

Time to tie up some of the loose ends on the fuselage. Bottom sheeting getting ready to go in. Glue down the taper on the pod aft end. Need to thinkwhich way i want ot go on the nose section. Use the laminated build up of balsa or make a pine block to fit in. Either way is good.

Decided to go with the stock tow hook installation. I was going to add another piece of ply to the inside of the pod. Fuselage fillets along the glue joints are done except for the bottom.

So I guess its time to clear teh pod and boom off the table and start on the wings.