semi-serious 2 meter TD

[belouder]

So what do folks recomend for a semi-serious 2M TD ship?

I've recently gotten back into flying TD stuff and have a Shadow for open but want to get a 2m craft as I've always enjoyed the small airplanes. Also-often I don't have the time to setup and fly a larger craft so a 2M that will break down fast would be nice.

The KC Sprite looks interesting but is a bit pricey. I had a Banshee years ago so that looks promising. Also had a Super-V which rocked and a CR Aircraft Raptor (should have NEVER sold that!!!) The Ducks sound consistent.

So what do people fly? What about the Gabby? For the price of a moldie it looks promising but what have people found out about it? And the Laser? The Whisper? Ruby 2M? From what I can gather, it appears that a lot of the moldie 2Ms are better suited to slope-hard to decipher what are pure TD ships.

Want to go full-house. Would like something strong and light and all the things folks want.

[I_Can't_Fly]

I am waiting to test this one out just to have a 2m to play with while I build a Supra.

Dragonfly XLT (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=965213)

[rdeis]

I've heard lots of good things about the 2m Gabby in flight, both with and without electric power on board. Some have complained about durability and customer service issues.

[Tappet]

One word..............Organic

Tap

[belouder]

Is the Organic still in production? I was amazed watching a few of these in Visalia-on zoom they just keep going up and up and up-rather stunning.

[AC5FF]

I am going to second ICF's recommendation. After talking to Paul on numerous occasions his Dragonfly XLT is going to shatter some records

[belouder]

Will this Dragonfly breakdown easily for travel? Strong like bull?

[jtlsf5]

Brian,
Unless you're looking exclusively for new, I might be selling my well flown Laser 2MC. Detail on the plane at http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=59.

I am planning on moving to a Sprite, and don't need two 2M's. If this is of any interest, PM me and we can discuss it offline.

JT

[AC5FF]

The Dragonfly XLT will sport a two piece wing and I'm fairly certain a removeable stab. I am next to positive that Paul kept that design the same... I can't remember now though if he went with the full-flying stab or not... I know he went back n forth about it a few times.
Here's a link to his website: http://threejgliders.com/
shoot off an email to him or PM him here (PlasticPaul). He's dang good at getting back with people!

[Wylie Shaw]

Is the Organic still in production? I was amazed watching a few of these in Visalia-on zoom they just keep going up and up and up-rather stunning.

Yes....

Also if you can find a Rogue II would be another choice... however you can't have mine..... these were made by ED Whyte and don't believe they are being produced anymore, could be wrong...

Best Regards,


Wylie Shaw

[Thermaler]

If you can find one and UPS does not destroy it the Skybench Osprey is a good plane.

This link takes you to my wood V Tail version. :cool:

http://www.thermalrider.com/redhen/ospreylaunch.html

Thanks to Wylie I will have a glass fuse T Tail very soon. If UPS had not destroyed :mad: :censored: the kit I would have two!!!

Thank You again Wylie! ;)

Joe

[Wylie Shaw]

I also second the Osprey Choice... excllent bird for sure.... your welcome Joe I'm glad that you'll be able to use the forward 1/2 of the fuse.... :D

post some pictures when done..


Best Regards,


Wylie Shaw

[atmosteve]

That Osprey sure looks like a nice 2m thermaler for some ranging around for that hookup!
Steve.

[Bob Cook]

Hi Guys,

What about a Lil Bird of time from Skybench (?) Or the new Helium MG2 from Stevens Aero Models, just leave the motor off. It has a 2 or 3 piece wing and the stab comes off for traveling. Or a Chrysalis MK 2.

Bob in Seattle

[Soar_dude]

If you are going RES woodie Grand Illusion from http://www.mmglidertech.com strong wing good airfoil for RES.

Soar Dude

[belouder]

thanks for the RES ideas but I'm looking to go full-house. I have about 10 minutes a week of free time to build so something in the ARF or nearly ARF works far better for me. I already have too many un-built or half-built things laying around-need something I can get in the air pretty quickly.

Wylie-was your "yes" answering the question about if the Organic is still in production? If so, who is selling it in the US?

[Blaster]

Organics are sold in the US by Kennedy Composites. We have the Organic 2M and Organic 2.5M in stock. Also, we have the electric versions of both the 78" and 100" available.

Barry

[Wylie Shaw]

Belouder, Yes see above from "The Blaster" the Organic is the way to go... full house Ail/flap/elevator/ or rudavators... only thing you have to do is install the control cables, horns, servoes, all wiring.... tow hook, balance her out... she'll fly with the best of em... and tell the "Blaster" Wylie sent you..


Best Regards,


Wylie Shaw


www.kennedycomposites.com

[belouder]

silly me-I looked on the KC website but it's not listed under the 2M stuff so I went away!!

[Soar_dude]

thanks for the RES ideas but I'm looking to go full-house. I have about 10 minutes a week of free time to build so something in the ARF or nearly ARF works far better for me. I already have too many un-built or half-built things laying around-need something I can get in the air pretty quickly.

Wylie-was your "yes" answering the question about if the Organic is still in production? If so, who is selling it in the US?

Mike Lee did a article in either RCM or Quiet Flyer a few years back on the Spirit Elite ARF and he was impressed for the price the one thing in the article that stood out was the weight of fiberglass fuse was a bit on the portly side but there are thing you can do to lighten it significantly. Another thing you can do is wait till the Northwest Hobby Expo at the Evergreen State Fair Grounds http://www.nwmodelhobbyexpo.com/ they have a swapmeet and vendor sales you might be able to find something. Another possible source is the guys at Seattle Seattle Soaring Society http://www.seattleareasoaringsociety.com/ one of the members might have something you are looking for too. I hope this helps you out.

Soar Dude

[aeajr]

So what do folks recomend for a semi-serious 2M TD ship?

I've recently gotten back into flying TD stuff and have a Shadow for open but want to get a 2m craft as I've always enjoyed the small airplanes. Also-often I don't have the time to setup and fly a larger craft so a 2M that will break down fast would be nice.

The KC Sprite looks interesting but is a bit pricey. I had a Banshee years ago so that looks promising. Also had a Super-V which rocked and a CR Aircraft Raptor (should have NEVER sold that!!!) The Ducks sound consistent.

So what do people fly? What about the Gabby? For the price of a moldie it looks promising but what have people found out about it? And the Laser? The Whisper? Ruby 2M? From what I can gather, it appears that a lot of the moldie 2Ms are better suited to slope-hard to decipher what are pure TD ships.

Want to go full-house. Would like something strong and light and all the things folks want.

What is your price range? The Organic 2m is $750, but you did not comment on the price
http://www.kennedycomposites.com/organic.htm

Is this for winch or hi-start? I assume since you want it for fast up and down, we are talking hi-start. Otherwise the set-up and break down of the plane is no big deal compared to a winch and retriver.

And, how does a 2M get the tag of being faster to set up and faster to break down anyway? Where is all this time savings?


Sounds like a sport plane rather then a contest plane. Si I assume this plane will not have to handle high speed nose crashes in order to make the 100 point circle. Would that be correct?

[SaltyOne]

I vote for the Gabby. It is a great flying, fully molded plane at about 1/2 the price of an Organic or Sprite. The only problem is NES may not have anymore. Make sure they say they are in stock before placing an order with NES!!!

George

[belouder]

Some clarity-it will be a contest plane.

For me a 2M can live in the vehicle I take to the SASS flying field with at least the tail group on-the F3J has to be transported completely broken down. I take at least one of the boyz to the field (ages 1.5 and 3.5 yrs) and so a 2M can sit on the hood or roof to keep away from little feet and hands. So for me it breaks down faster.

Also, 2M tend to be harder to fly (for me at least) and require more focus-the Shadow just goes up and stays up until I get bored and then land-not that that is a bad thing but 2M tends to keep me more focused and require more finess to get the airtime. Since flying time tends to be limited, 2M gives me more learnin' bang for the buck.

And they are better close to the ground when I have to get it down in a hurry because someone "needs to take a poop" or has fed his brother something dogs won't even eat or has stuck his finger in my eye while riding in the backpack. But I will eventually want to compete with it so something that can be lawn darted would be good.

If price were no object, the Sprite and Organic sound very cool. I've seen the Organic in action and it does well-no actual word on the Sprite TD from people that have flown it. Down the expenditure chain the Gabby looks nice for the price but it would good to hear flight reports. The XLT looks very cool and is priced very well-hopefully it will be all that it looks to be. The Ducks are very contest proven it would appear and the Laser is available used. The Banshee looks neat and is a nostalgic thing for me-my old one looked great stained clear and was strong as all get out.

All good stuff. My old beater Falcon 600 was a coolio plane in it's day-but it would be good to take advantage of all the design advances that have happened so then. Hence my inquiry. Keep the thoughts and recomendations coming folks, I really do appreciate them.

[Freakflyin]

Tell that to Bobby M. He placed 2nd at Visalia this past October with his Falcon 600.... An Organic was 1st by 1 point! So the older designs are still there man...

I prefer the Spirit Elite kit with specific mods myself... just something about the 7035 that I like... and she breaks down well... fits into a rectangular rifle case (Wal-Mart) too.

Mike

[aeajr]

Nothing wrong with a Spirit Elite. They are cheap, so you can take two. They are not cutting edge planes, but they fly pretty good.

They won't take the powerful winch launch that the Organic will take, but so what?
I would not want to hard lawn dart one but it should be able to handle a mid skeg with no issues. And it should break down pretty fast.

Spirit Elite - 2M Kit or ARF $60-$100
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNH96&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAVR0&P=7

If you like 'em light, consider the Renny. I don't consider this a serious full pedal winch plane but it is so light, mouse farts should keep it up.
Renny - 2M ARF $239
I have my eye on this one for myself
R/E/A/F - built up wing with composit D box construction
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1185
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623471

Gabby - 2M $309
R/E/A/F Molded wing construction
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5288

Enigma 2 M ARF - $339
R/E/A/F - built up wing with composit D box construction
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1184

The Sprite, as a scaled down Supra, should be a real winner, but $800 is not cheap!
http://www.kennedycomposites.com/sprite.htm

SiSu C 2M - $464
R/E/A/F - Carbon Fiber/Kevlar sheeted wing
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=65


Alto - 2m $469 ARF
R/E/A/R - built up wing with carbon D Box and carbon capped ribs
http://www.soaringusa.com/products/product.htm?product_id=16493&category_id=258


2.4 GHz - Is it in your future?

If you are thinking about going 2.4 any time soon, you should consider getting a non-carbon fuselage.

[atjurhs]

One thing that has not yet been mentioned but should be is the ability of the plane to pull the winch line up with it. The winch lines we use at competion are designed for 3M birds with 1100+ sqinches and huge flaps. These winch lines are very heavy for many 2Ms, and so they are limited in their launch height. In order to over come this, I beleive you need to have a 2M wing with at least 600 sqinches of wing area and percentage wise the same size flaps (at least 20% of the chord).

The ability of the plane to zoom is another feature that must be considered if you really want a 2M that can compete. There are several factors that correspond to this, but spar strength torrisonal rigidity are probably the highest.

Wing area, flap size, spar strength, torrsional rigidity, look for these properties. You'll probably come up with an Organic or a Laser, but there are others as well.....

[Ed Franz]

I vote for the Duck. One of the best 2 meters ever designed. I think that Troy is kitting them again. I know he has been on the groups talking about his new company.

Ed
www.commonsenserc.com

[Freakflyin]

Not sure about yours but my Elites take a full pedal, zoom hard and fly considerably better than OK... Sorry Ed but they're a stout plane and a good competition model...

It's a shame that most folks want a $500 ARF rather than build a good $75 crunchy...

... Build an Elite or a Duck... you'll be happy with the result


Mike

[jaizon]

Any info on how to contact Troy. I still have my Duck (circa 1990 or so) and love it. Will take a hard launch and goes and goes. Thanks.

[belouder]

I hope no one thought I felt the Falcon 600 was not in the running-I watched Bob M zoom the poop out of his and land like there's no tomorrow (but then Bob could probably win flying his motorhome-as long as it starts!!). Just would like to hear what people think of what is currently available.

Anyone have direct experience with the Sisu C 2M? When I was active a while ago, there was a SASS member that had designed and built a unlimited Sisu and I'm curious if this is from that design?

[aeajr]

Not sure about yours but my Elites take a full pedal, zoom hard and fly considerably better than OK... Sorry Ed but they're a stout plane and a good competition model...

It's a shame that most folks want a $500 ARF rather than build a good $75 crunchy...

... Build an Elite or a Duck... you'll be happy with the result


Mike

I guess our winches are stronger than yours. We have several members with Elite ARFs. Two have had them blowup on the winch. When it happens, the wings "explode" with quite a resounding sound. There is not enough left to rebuild.

I have never seen an elite that was built from a kit. I am sure with the addition of come carbon in the right spots, that the wing could be made even stronger.

That does not mean I don't like them. I consider them one of, if not THE best value full hose 2M planes around. I have flown them and like them. But I don't consider them in the same class as many of the other planes listed here.

But, I would not hesitate to take one into a 2M full house competition.

[Ed Franz]

Any info on how to contact Troy. I still have my Duck (circa 1990 or so) and love it. Will take a hard launch and goes and goes. Thanks.


Here you go: troy@lawickimodels.com He sells booms. pods and other sailplane products.

Ed
www.commonsenserc.com

[target]

I've flown my buddies Renny, and it will stay up in some of the lightest lift.
I'm not sure I'd want to lawn dart it though, but his is only Ail/V-tail, so no flaps.
It's only 20 oz RTF!

T

[Freakflyin]

I hope no one thought I felt the Falcon 600 was not in the running-I watched Bob M zoom the poop out of his and land like there's no tomorrow (but then Bob could probably win flying his motorhome-as long as it starts!!). Just would like to hear what people think of what is currently available.

Anyone have direct experience with the Sisu C 2M? When I was active a while ago, there was a SASS member that had designed and built a unlimited Sisu and I'm curious if this is from that design?


It was a blast watching Bob and George fly it out right down to the last round this past Fall Fest... 1 point!!! That's 2 world class pilots with two completely different planes.... just goes to show you... %^)

I'll stick to kit bashing crunchies... don't tell my moldies...

Mike

[jaizon]

Thanks, Ed.

[R. Carver]

I guess our winches are stronger than yours. We have several members with Elite ARFs. Two have had them blowup on the winch. When it happens, the wings "explode" with quite a resounding sound. There is not enough left to rebuild.

I have never seen an elite that was built from a kit. I am sure with the addition of come carbon in the right spots, that the wing could be made even stronger.

That does not mean I don't like them. I consider them one of, if not THE best value full hose 2M planes around. I have flown them and like them. But I don't consider them in the same class as many of the other planes listed here.

But, I would not hesitate to take one into a 2M full house competition.

The Elite ARF is a dog, IMHO. I have flown an Elite built from a kit and it was a joy to fly. One of the most under-rated kits out there if you ask me.

[aeajr]

Really? Does it need special reinforcement or do you just build the kit as provided?

[Freakflyin]

Hey Ed,
With todays materials a nice CF spar cap does wonders...so does a beefier joiner... the kit joiner is not strong enough.

[aeajr]

So what do folks recomend for a semi-serious 2M TD ship?

I've recently gotten back into flying TD stuff and have a Shadow for open but want to get a 2m craft as I've always enjoyed the small airplanes. Also-often I don't have the time to setup and fly a larger craft so a 2M that will break down fast would be nice.

The KC Sprite looks interesting but is a bit pricey. I had a Banshee years ago so that looks promising. Also had a Super-V which rocked and a CR Aircraft Raptor (should have NEVER sold that!!!) The Ducks sound consistent.

So what do people fly? What about the Gabby? For the price of a moldie it looks promising but what have people found out about it? And the Laser? The Whisper? Ruby 2M? From what I can gather, it appears that a lot of the moldie 2Ms are better suited to slope-hard to decipher what are pure TD ships.

Want to go full-house. Would like something strong and light and all the things folks want.

So, what did you get? How does it fly?

[wsnowfall]

i had a renny, electrified it, bit crunchy. hard to see up high till i painted wing bottom black

i have nib Sisu C which is a very pretty plane and competetive. i have it sold at $250 but have not heard lately from the prosepective buyer.

i may put it back on the market if there is interest.

[PDARR]

Get a Banshee and kick some butts.



http://www.agnewmodelproducts.com/index.html

[schrederman]

Odd that I would post on a 2-meter thread, but I have been thinking about this ever since Mikey told me at SWC that I should design a 2-meter glider... :confused: ... I haven't done anything with that thought yet, but I find it odd that it's still on my mind. I'm trying to forget it but can't for some reason... :rolleyes: ... I have never liked 2-meter, but I've never liked skegs, either... and now I'm using them... We'll see... Of course, if I do, it'll have winglets... :p :D

Jack

[belouder]

Jack,
I'd be interested to see what you come up regarding a competitive 2M. There just aren't any kits out there!!!
BK