Looking for a first kit / SIG Riser Build Thread

[Red_N_White]

Hey guys,

Title pretty much says it. Santas bringing a kit for me, so I'm just haveing a look arround. Something arround the 2m mark, RES or full house, doesn't worry me. Will be bungee launched. I've been flying for a few years now and have built a few slopers, but nothing too balsa-ish. This may turn into a build thread once I order whatever I order. Any recomendations?

I was looking at something like a SIG riser, from what I've read, they don't seem too bad, and are well priced, ( Given the aussie dollars at about 65 US cents..)

Anything much better value out there? And comments or recomendations on the riser?

Cheers,
Patrick

[Wylie Shaw]

Hi Patrick Kewl, look at www.skybench.com Ray Hayes owner/operator put out excellent laser cut kits. Excellent quality they all fly well oldies and newer designs..... Bird series (Bird of Time example) Oly II standard and Oly IIs (different airfoil) Oly III and lots others... can't go wrong with whatever you choose... Make like you want em...

Best Regards,

Wylie Shaw

[atjurhs]

Patrick, I always make the same recommendation for first timers, and that coincides with Wylie's. Get an OLYII or OLYIIs from Skybench. I don't think there is anything better for a first time flyer/builder, and you can find plenty of flying/building help here on RCGroups concerning them.

[rduder]

Check-Out this list:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=915767

[dwells]

What Wylie said...

[atjurhs]

Check-Out this list:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=915767


Those are all 2M birds. In general, the longer the wingspan the better behaved a plane will be (given all other factors remain the same) and the easier to catch lift with. Also, a 100inch plane will typically have a lower wingloading than a 2M which usually translates into a better sink rate. The 2Ms will also typically need to fly faster to stay aloft. Simply stated, go with a 100inch (or larger), and that's one more reason why I always suggest an OLYII or OLYIIs.

[rduder]

True - Bigger flies Better !

Skybench has some great kits, but check this out too:
http://www.mmglidertech.com/marauder.htm

[lincoln]

100 inch is an excellent size. I think that even bigger may fly better, but you don't get quite as much bang for the extra buck (and effort). And the Oly 2 (original, not the 2S which may be great for all I know) is such a great glider for learning to catch thermals with. Still, if you have all that slope experience, perhaps you can handle something a bit faster.

Anyway, I flew 2M exclusively for many years, but 100 inches is LOTS better.

If you really must build a 2M, the Riser is a good one.

RES is a good choice because it's less work to build and set up, and, for most people, I think, easier to learn to thermal.

I'm under the impression that there are a number of decent British designs to consider, but I'm not familiar with them. Don't know if they'd be a better value for you or not.

[Hostage-46]

If your heart is set on a 2M look at the DJ Aerotech 2M Chrysalis. Terrific valyu, outstanding flyer and an easy build

[bundyglida]

The plane you want is in your title, the 'FIRST' 2m glider is a brilliant themal machine, light, strong penetrates well, and you will not break it on a bungee, I can't even break it on my f3b winch.

[Red_N_White]

Thanks for the ideas so far guys. I'm gonn have to go for 2m, my bungee isn't big enough to handle 100 inchers..And I have tried.

From prices and delivery costs, It's between the sig riser and the Grand Illusion. The gentle ladys wing retention looks a bit painful to me, having only removeable wingtips. Where as the riser and the Grad Illusion, I believe, have a removable wing joiner in the middle.

I gotta tell you, anytime I order from outside here, the shipping costs suck! Tower wants $40 for shipping a $40 plane! With the exchange rate here, that's about $120 all up.. Oh well..Enough wingeing, more reseach!

Thanks for the recomendations guys! Keep them comeing!
-Patrick

[BrianRickman]

The 2M Riser is a nice plane. I don't know what the build is like because I bought mine used, but it really floats. I built a new fuselage for mine and added an electric motor. Even with the motor and battery, AUW is around 24 ounces, which is quite good for a 2M sailplane.

The only negative thing I've noticed is that it won't penetrate in more then 20 Mph wind, and even 20 is pushing the limits of the plane. You'll have this same issue with most of the other popular 2M gliders as well. Just something to keep in mind. These planes are best flown in relatively calm air.

[rduder]

I suggest you buy one from a local SIG dealer to cut down on your shipping costs. Sig has them listed on their website.
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig

[atmosteve]

High Patrick. don't forget the new Miles 2M kit is available from modelflight here in Aus also for a fair price. Do you have a fixed budget?
Yes we all love build logs, please start one up when you decide on a bird. Have fun deciding.
Steve.

[ozmo01]

Sig kits are a very good first build sugestion. I have not built a riser but I have built several other Sig kits. Like 'em all. Good instructions are rather important for a "first build" IMHO. Have fun! :)

[lincoln]

A light 100 inch and a heavy 2 meter use the same high start. In fact, a light 100 inch glider might use a smaller one. The Oly 2 can be built under 40 oz., and I've had 2 meters that were heavier than that.

Gentle Lady's wing comes off, the 3 piece is just an option, both work fine, although the flex of the tips looks strange at first if you're using 3/32" joiners like they say.

I don't remember if the Riser has a joiner or not, but it's a nice glider. THe Grand Illusion is likely to be heavier and faster.
Thanks for the ideas so far guys. I'm gonn have to go for 2m, my bungee isn't big enough to handle 100 inchers..And I have tried.

From prices and delivery costs, It's between the sig riser and the Grand Illusion. The gentle ladys wing retention looks a bit painful to me, having only removeable wingtips. Where as the riser and the Grad Illusion, I believe, have a removable wing joiner in the middle.

I gotta tell you, anytime I order from outside here, the shipping costs suck! Tower wants $40 for shipping a $40 plane! With the exchange rate here, that's about $120 all up.. Oh well..Enough wingeing, more reseach!

Thanks for the recomendations guys! Keep them comeing!
-Patrick

[Red_N_White]

My current histart will launch my 2m fling, but can't get my 2.6m spirt 100 up too far. So I dunno. The sprit might just be really heavy for the size.. It is full house though.

Looking on modelflight ( Didn't realise they still stocked any kits in this ARF age) their prices are more than overseas, even with the dollar as is.

Ordering from sig seemed a good option, but they didn't quote a price for the shipping. They said something like $10US plus whatever the UPS shipping was. But didn't give the UPS quote. Any ideas guys? From where ever Sig is to Brisbane, Australia.

Lincon,
How much experence have you had with gentle ladys? ( The plane! Not other things! Hehe) Can it be built as a 2 piece wing? Centre join?

Atmosteve,
No fixed budget, but cheeper is good. Quality is more important. Under $180 Aus includeing shipping would be good.

Cheers guys,
Patrick

[kkw]

Patrick,
we have a serious 2m comp series in NSW and 95% of the pilots all fly the First. There is a reason behind it :) Not much else can compete with the strength and performance. If you are going to order any of the budget 2m balsa built ups, then my recommendation is the Spirit or the Miles. I have won many comps with the Spirit, before the First became available. True, I do sell the First, but have a look at the hsl.org.au webpage under Millennium Cup and email any of the others to get an opinion. Can't go past it really. Very strong, composite ARF and very efficient.

Klaus

[Red_N_White]

Just an update guys,
I decided to go with the SIG riser. It's all done and ordered. So now I, playing the waiting game. Oh well, theres bound to be other toys to amuse me before it arrives.
Shall post again when she arrives.
Cheers guys.

[Red_N_White]

Guess what guys, it's heeeeeerrrreee! :D

I'm excited! I've looked over the plans and read the book, now I'm just about to duck down to the LHS to grab some supplies, then I'm going to get started.

I'll be posting pic's the whole way hopefully, so this shall become a bit of a build thread. =] Feel free to chime in and tell me I've done something wrong or what not, as this is a first for me.

It begins!
-Patrick

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2504/img0493xy5.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0493xy5.jpg)

[atmosteve]

Hi Patrick, I just recieved a box of wood from the States that will become a 2M bird myself! Nice feeling isn't it.

Now, I have only one criticism so far, as you asked for them...
The bench is missing something, but I can't quite put my finger on it..?



Edit; Found it!! - No can of icy cold beer.. :D

[atmosteve]

Forgive me for chiming in, another thing that might be a help to the Riser build log is you can download pics directly to the RCG server if you wish with the 'manage attachments' feature, it saves you time and mucking around with pasting uploaded imageshack URL's.
Sorry if you are onto this already, thought it might be a help. :)
Any new pics yet?
Steve.

[lincoln]

Build the fin or something first, THEN go to the local hobby shop while it dries! (You don't use that awful CA stuff do you?)

[Red_N_White]

Cheers Steve..It's ment to be 32 outside today, it's hot as buggery in here!
Some leading edge sheeting done on the bottom, along with the bottom spar cap strip, trailing edge and a little sheeting.

Lincoln,
Not on this build. And the trip to the LHS was to buy glue.. So no good there!

[Red_N_White]

I swear it's getting hotter in here... Oh well..Might make the glue dry quicker?

Heres a bit of a lower rib strip for you all.

Yes, yes..I know I build really slow..But It's my first woodie build..Be nice.

[Red_N_White]

That might be all for today. Off to see the girlfriend now. Later guys!

[atmosteve]

Priorities... whatever happened to mans priorities.. :D ;)

[Steve.650]

Hi Patrick, Good to see a proper Woodie 2mtr being built again around here. Seems a lot of us are going glass or ARF. Ive recently built the Marauder 3mtr woodie which has only flown a few times(currenlty thinking of selling) and now gone to glass ships. The rewards from building your own woodie far outway glass any day. All the best with your build. I shall be watching its progress and wishing you all the best.
Cheers Steve

[scaflock]

Patrick,

I just finished up a Riser 100 and from what I can see in the pics you posted it is a completely different construction than the 2m Riser. I've been thinking of getting my R-100 a little brother so I'll be following this thread. Looking good so far.

Jeff

[Red_N_White]

Hey again guys,

Steve..It's a bit like that... I know.. I went flying earlier though..So I thought it should be a 2-1 plane-girl ratio.

Other Steve
I've done ARF, I've done foamies..Balsa is something else. It's good though. I'm starting to love it.

Alright, RCG is being a big annoying..So I can't get pics..But I just Glued the bottom spar in place, over the lower spar caps. It's weighted down and setting overnight.

That's all for today, folks.
Shall see you tomorrow hopefully.
-Patrick

[Red_N_White]

Howdy all again.
Alright. Pic from last night, bottom spar is now in. And from earlier today, riiiiiibs.

Next up is the fiddly bit of the dihedral on the first and last ribs, so that the outer panel has the right angle and the two inner panels will be correct in relation to each other. Then, shear webs.

[Red_N_White]

Alright. Not much time for work today. But I got the outer rib on the inside pannel of the right hand wing in. It's the trippy one with the angle. Pain in the :censored: . But oh well. Progress is progress. Will try and get up to the shear webs tomorrow (after I wake up).

Happy new year to everyone. Hope you had a good 2008.
-Patrick

[Red_N_White]

Alriiighhht. More from the worlds slowest builder.

Umm..Stuff done...
Both dihedrial angles on the outer ribs...
Not much else...

Stuff comeing up after the commercial break...
Upper spar, Sheer webs, upper spar cap.

Does anyone know anyone else that builds as slow as I?

[atmosteve]

Alriiighhht. More from the worlds slowest builder.

Does anyone know anyone else that builds as slow as I?

Yes, me. In fact i build slower, I'll wager on it.. my last timber build took me 200 days to finish, and it wasn't even a difficult build! :D
Fear not. :)

[scaflock]

Don't worry about going slow Patrick. Take your time and do it right. It will save you time in the long run because you won't have to go back and fix mistakes and you'll have a better built ship when you do finish. Measure two time (at least) and cut one time is always the best way to go.

Happy New Year

Jeff

[Red_N_White]

Alright.. Top spar in. Not much else has changed..Well..Not anything. I'm not too sure how the dihedral looks, but the joiners should fix anything that isn't right.

[upstart]

Hi, this is my second post, and I hope I'm not intruding.

I'm building one of these too, and am about at the same place. Have just installed the brass receiver for the joiner rod.

Also... am thinking of using Aquila tailfeathers for the horizontal stab. The idea would be to make it more portable than the original.

I learned to fly with a Riser not quite 20 years ago by chucking one out over Tijeras Arroyo (where the Burger King is now, I think) in Albuquerque. Junked it when I moved, but always had a soft spot for it.

People say things in strong terms about what you should build, but there really is a place in the world for a light 2m.

Will be following your build, and thanks for sharing!

[scaflock]

Patrick,

Here a shot of the Riser 100 I just finished up. Thought you might like some covering ideas. http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/1/7/9/4/1/9/a2256881-234-Riser100a.jpg

[Red_N_White]

Upstart,
I didn't see a brass joiner rod? Are you talking about a riser or riser 100? Maybe I got an old ( or new) version of the kit?

Scaflock,
That looks awesome, how long did it take you? What does the bottom look like? How visible is purple against the sky? I was thinking I would do red and white... ( Trademark colours..Hence the name...)
Sorta like the attachment

[lincoln]

Brass joiner rod is a bad idea. 40kpsi vs 200+for music/piano wire. He means the brass tube that the joiner rod goes into. You can find that at almost all hobby shops and many hardware stores, if necessary.

[upstart]

Brass joiner rod is a bad idea. 40kpsi vs 200+for music/piano wire. He means the brass tube that the joiner rod goes into. You can find that at almost all hobby shops and many hardware stores, if necessary.
This is correct. The inside diameter of brass tubing is just about right for the outside diameter of the next size smaller steel rod.
I suppose I could have looked at the instructions, but to be honest, I forgot Sig covered this. FWIW, I don't have CDO (It's like OCD, only alphabetized), and don't intend to fly this for anything but pleasure, and that off a hi start.

Also... I typically glue on only one rib where the center section meets the tip section until I get ready to join them. Yes, I have the template, but it's more important (I think) for the tip dihedrals to match each other than for one of them to be perfect. Consequently, the center panel gets pinned to the board, a block is created to raise the tip the correct amount, and the whole thing gets test fitted and sanded so things line up, then the extra rib is added. It's a lot easier for me to get a precise measurement at a distance of 1/4 span than at one rib height. (think about that, and I hope it makes sense). I'm sure there are better ways, but this is my custom.

[Red_N_White]

Uhh..Mine has a ply joiner.. For both the center joiner and the tip ones. So I don't know anything about a brass/piano wire one?

Tonights work. Shear webs glued, sheeting at the root glued and some of the rib caps glued in.

Next up, more rib caps and working on the wing joiner. Heaven forbid, I might have to start the other wing. =o

[upstart]

Uhh..Mine has a ply joiner.. For both the center joiner and the tip ones. So I don't know anything about a brass/piano wire one?

Tonights work. Shear webs glued, sheeting at the root glued and some of the rib caps glued in.

Next up, more rib caps and working on the wing joiner. Heaven forbid, I might have to start the other wing. =o
Right, so did mine. But I wanted to be able to split the wing into two one meter bits so I can stick it in the trunk/boot of the auto without having to use the pass through. So the brass/steel thing is kind of a "bodge" on my part. It's very like what the Riser 100 has, FWIW.

[scaflock]

Patrick,

The bottom looks just like the top only no spoiler blades done in the gold. Visibility is as good as any other color. Once it gets high enough you can't tell what the color is anyway. The red does stand out against the sky pretty well at lower levels. Once you get up ther just about all colors will turn to black anyway. ;)

It took me about two weeks to do the entire build on this one. Of course being laid off from work at the moment does have its advantages. In the last month I've built up the Riser from start to finish as well as a Spectra. I also managed to get the spoiler system on my Paragon re-done. Having built sailplanes for almost 40 years as well as a shop full of equipment makes me fast. Right now I'm trying to decide on which one of the kits I have on hand to start next. Windfree with mods (99in), Thermal Thing (60in HL) or Jester (2 meter RES). What do ya think should come next?

Upstart.... Don't forget to also add an indexing pin to keep the wing halves lined up. It will make your life easier in the long run. The joiner system on the 100 is pretty good. I could scan that portion of the plans and e-mail them to ya if you want them for a reference.

Jeff

[Red_N_White]

Okay.
I just realised I stuffed up.
My wing LE isn't how it is ment to be... Pics in a sec.
Dammit!

[Red_N_White]

Okay.. Leading edge is stuffed... It should be 90 degrees to what it is...

Ideas? Should I take it off and start again? The LE sheeting is on there already and I think the profile is wrong.. How do I get it off? Slowly cut away at the glue with a shap knife?

[rabidrue1]

Glue a strip of 3/16 or 1/4" balsa to the angled face with tite bond or some other glue that sands easy and razor plane it to the right shape.Ive done this before for the same reason,it will take a while but is not as bad as trying to cut it off and try again.

[scaflock]

Patrick,

I'm sure most of us here have made the same mistake at one time or another. Don't let it get to you. It Happens. Just build it up like Rabidrue suggested or break out hte debonder if you are using CA glue to build with. Just let the piece dry over night before you glue it back in to make sure there's no debonder left.

Jeff

[Red_N_White]

Mm... Not useing CA unfountunately. So built up it shall be.. Should I do the same on the other wing for consistancy?

[scaflock]

You're going to have to now if for no other reason than to keep the weight on each side even.

Jeff

[upstart]

Mm... Not useing CA unfountunately. So built up it shall be.. Should I do the same on the other wing for consistancy?

Why?
This is a 2m, flat bottomed wing. Just get the profile right then prior to covering see if one side actually turns out to be heavier than the other. If not (could happen) no problem. If it does, just a little weight at the tip ought to take care of it.

Someone may say that in theory it will matter - the spanwise difference in loading will have an impact. And this would be true if you intended to fly in theory instead of air. ;) But I can't see doing that kind of extra work for this.

[Red_N_White]

If the section is different, won't the lift differ?? It might be turning right constantly..

[upstart]

If the section is different, won't the lift differ?? It might be turning right constantly..

That's why I'd glue a little bit onto the leading edge, then carve & sand so the shape is the same as the others. You could make a template to help make sure the shapes match. If that "sheeting" goes back an extra 1/16th of an inch or 1/8th of an inch, again, that might make a theoretical difference. If it worries you, that could be sanded off as well (in between the ribs). The ribs are capstripped so that shouldn't be a big deal.

FWIW, I'd think the stall characteristics would be the big difference, and that could make thermalling interesting.

[Red_N_White]

Okay.. Well I managed to get the LE top sheeting off. ( Time and a sharp knife) If I glue a strip on then sand it back it shouldn't make too much difference I hope.

[rabidrue1]

As long as you get the right shape to it it wont matter,after you get whole wing framed and fitted you can check the lateral balance and see whats what.

[Cap_n_Dave]

I built and flew a 2M Riser back in 1988. Dave Garwood used to fly at my High School and gave me a quick and dirty training session on how to fly.

May I suggest that you use a piano wire "joiner" to attach the elevator halves. The hardwood one on mine broke on the 2nd or 3rd flight. The horizontal stabilizer is uncomfortably close to the ground on landings, fast landings on tall grass tended to cause damage.

I may build another one day, and if so I would make the control surfaces "airfoiled" (rather than flat). I distinctly recall being unhappy about the yaw rate (slow). I would also consider trying to lighten the wingtips.

I would also think about using fiberglass, basalt, or carbon on the D-box and spar caps to stiffen up the wing. I recall one vigorous hi-start launch where the wings fluttered(!). Got my attention real quick.

She actually made a decent slope bird as well.

[Red_N_White]

Okay! I'm back.
Have been busy with other projects/things, but shall be back to the build.
LE has been reglued..Couldn't get it turned arround properly, but oh well.. All the rib caps are now on..The panels just about done I think

[Red_N_White]

Alright guys, I told you I was the worlds slowest builder and it's proveing true.
Last you heard I'd just about finished one of the inner pannels, now I'm almost done one of the outer'. LE strip and rip/spar capping to go.
Pics to follow.

[Red_N_White]

Alright. I haven't really had time to keep working on the bird, been busy. Just got into uni, and settled in, got a belt CP heli, and have a windrider fox on the way. Also got a bar licence and did a fair bit of work.

You don't want my excuses? You want to see what I've done now? Sure..Pic's for all you out there still watching.

[w0ace]

Still building? Thinking this is going to be my next glider project, just want to keep following the build. Looks good so far! :)

[Bob Cook]

HI Red & White,

I built a Riser 100 last summer. I made 3 modifications to it. I built the fin and rudder with out the counter ballence. I added a small sub-rudder, and I added some fancy wing tips. It flies great. Here are some photos for you of my mods.

Bob in Seattle