Who are the "smart" guys who voted against a monthly payment for the ridiculous dues [Archive]

kljenkin

Dec 10, 2008, 07:29 PM

I realize that I was not at the last few meetings but I had always assumed that I would just divide the $325 by 12 and use my bank's online banking to setup 12 payment of $27 and make everyone happy.

It seems that not only are you geniuses to slow to raise dues in a proactive manner but you are too incompetent to allow for flexable payment plans. Yes it would be more work for the club officers but then again we are talking about $325 dollars!

Why not do a little more work and let guys like me stay in the club instead of forcing me out.

Did you consider that this increase is coming at the worst possible time in the economy and the best advice the club officers can give me is to put it on my credit card and pay it monthly that way. Credit is what got the whole nation in this economic death sprial. I am trying to get away from credit, not over extend myself even more!

Beside that is the fact that I can't even convince myself that $325 is justifiable, but I do think more on a monthly basis and $27 per month is more palatable to me. Sorry but that is the way my financal mind works.

So, since I have commitments to my children's ministry at church every Tuesday night and cannot be at the next meeting. Would someone please have the courtesy to raise this to a vote and raise a hand for me?

Otherwise, I will see you guys at the club's annual events and join the Flying Aces and even the York club and still have over $100 left to spend on planes!

Darn, but this sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

Pilotdale

Dec 10, 2008, 09:00 PM

I'm with you on this one. Sure would be easier to do the Payment plan. Especially on my end. My Business is falling off daily and WINTER is my tuffest time of year. $325 is a real EYE OPENER.. Anytime in my EYES for this HOBBY.

Chernoble

Dec 11, 2008, 06:20 AM

[QUOTE=kljenkin]I realize that I was not at the last few meetings but I had always assumed that I would just divide the $325 by 12 and use my bank's online banking to setup 12 payment of $27 and make everyone happy.

I am trying to get away from credit, not over extend myself even more!

While you are probably good for the 12 payments, would you guarantee that the next person would be? Would you be responsible for his unpaid balance if he decides to quit in the middle of the year and stop paying? A minority of the club membership (those who attended the last few meetings and voted) decided to place a unequal burden on the general membership to pay, by way of dues, for projected needs of the club for the upcoming year. The days of cheap flying at CAM are over but if our basic goals are met, in a couple of years we will have one of the best flying sites in the Carolinas.

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 07:00 AM

Nothing in Concret yet about new site. And Clock keeps ticking.

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 07:01 AM

HOLLYWOOD III

Dec 11, 2008, 08:27 AM

Join Now!

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 09:10 AM

While you are probably good for the 12 payments, would you guarantee that the next person would be? Would you be responsible for his unpaid balance if he decides to quit in the middle of the year and stop paying?

I thought that the club needed money? Even half of $325 if he bails part way through the year is better than nothing. Do all of these expenses come due at one time?

I am trying to help as best I can. I thought that the Paypal thing would allow me to signup for an automatic draft. Is there anything like that?

At these prices you need all the participants you can get, so excluding someone willing to pay the ridiculous dues because you are not happy with the way he can make it work is the same irresponsibility that got the club in this money crunch it is in! (I know that is a little harsh since the landowner contributed, but still.)

Point is that the officers are not willing to do the extra work required to manage flexable payment plans at a cost of $325 to the club itself for every guy like me.

Have a wall of shame and post names if you are 2 months past due. Send an email to the late guy and the club officers.

Have fun when they come bact to the 12 people that actually pay and say they need $650 dollars each!!!

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 09:18 AM

When my son played hockey, the club worked concession stand at the Checkers home games. I was able to work-off my dues and pay for my share of tornement fees by working the concession stand once or twice a month.
It worked great, the club got all the money earned that night and my "account" was creditied with my share.
It was fun and was another chance to hangout with your friends and make new ones.

Just an idea.

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 09:25 AM

Join Now!
DID JOHNNY RENEW YET ??

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 09:37 AM

I have offered Fund Raising Ideas but nothing happens. All is needed is a Runway, Fence for Flight Line. We dont have to do all at once. You know as well as I that our new site didnt just all happen over nite. We added a Structure hear and ther. All we need is a Runway to start with and the heck with even considering staying at paying the HIGH LEASE where we are. All we need is a NEW LEASE SIGNED and Start Moving. The rest will come with time. The Officals need to get off the BIG MONEY IDEA and move on...

INCH BY INCH ANYTHINGS A CINCH

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 10:25 AM

I will send the treasurer 12 checks signed and dated. That way all you do is deposit the right check each month.

No collection hassels, no wall of shame, just let us monthly guys send you all 12 checks at once. That is the way my son pays his share of the car insurance while he is in Iraq.

Come on, support the troups !!!
Be patriotic and accept my 12 post dated checks!

PLEASE !!! :D

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 10:57 AM

You are Barking up the WRONG TREE.. We are just wee pees and not officials.. Need to take up with them.. HEY BUT I LIKE THAT IDEA.. SOUNDS GOOD TO MEE... U GOT MY VOTE..

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 11:18 AM

I have just written a check dated 12/12/2008 for $28 and 11 checks for $27 post dated for the first of the month for January - November 2009.

I have mailed them to Mr. Metcalf.

If I see the checks begin to clear my bank then I know that the vote went my way and you have allowed me to stay in the club under this proposed payment arrangement.

If you decide to send the checks back to me then I will know that the vote did not go my way. No hard feelings and I will see you at the 2009 special events.

I will continue to fly at the current site through December and hope to see the checks start hitting my bank! :D

Sincerely,
Kelly Jenkins

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 11:38 AM

RE: PayPal Renewal‏
From: Kelly Jenkins (jenkins)
Sent: Thu 12/11/08 12:36 PM
To: John P. Metcalf (metcalf)

Thanks for the detailed response.

I am going to send the checks as described and ask that you take a vote, even if it is just to make a special exception just for me.

I will live with the club's decision but would ask for a special concideration for myself at least.

I will even agree to the $325 as proposed even if the membership numbers allow for a reduction as a "cost" of getting you to accept my terms.

Thanks,
Kelly

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: metcalf
To: jenkins; welles; gantt; turton
CC: jenkins; jenkins
Subject: RE: PayPal Renewal
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:30:11 +0000

We have gotten by on the cheap for $75 dues and some like yourself have benefited from low dues. Now we are in transition and we have little choice but to raise dues. Once we are settled we will consider a new dues structure. But it will never be $75 again.

We will rebuild the club on a new site and have a first class facility and we will have dedicated club members who will continue the Aeromodeler tradition and build the sport. I believe we will start from a smaller number than we have now, but that smaller number will be dedicated to make it work.

I know you will join two top notch clubs. We consider both the Aces and York as sister clubs and we support their endeavors like they do ours. Great people there and I know you will be satisfied.

If you ever want to come back we would love to have you. Hope to fly with you again.

Blue Sky to you and Merry Christmas,
--
John P. Metcalf
2008 President
Charlotte Aeromodelers
A Gold Leader Club
704.814.8999
www.charlotteaeromodelers.org

FlyJockey

Dec 11, 2008, 12:06 PM

Here is the full text of my message to Kelly sent today.

Kelly, it has been discussed, re-discussed and everytime the vote has been to pay the membership fee as you join and renew annually by a date certain.

Most businesses depend on consistent cash flow to make sure everything budgeted is taken care of and bills can be paid accordingly. Our club is no different.

Our operating budget requires that we have $12,000 to sustain the field, new or old. We will supplement that with money from donations (yes Kelly, some people do give more to the club than what they get back from the club), raffles, and fly-ins.

You mention financial geniuses. The genius behind the decision is the "club", not an individual. Now I want to meet the financial genius that can raise $12,000 without a dues increase. We have been open to a lot of ideas. And one was a pay by month like your idea. It did not pass muster and was voted down.

We have gotten by on the cheap for $75 dues and some like yourself have benefited from low dues. Now we are in transition and we have little choice but to raise dues. Once we are settled we will consider a new dues structure. But it will never be $75 again.

We will rebuild the club on a new site and have a first class facility and we will have dedicated club members who will continue the Aeromodeler tradition and build the sport. I believe we will start from a smaller number than we have now, but that smaller number will be dedicated to make it work.

I know you will join two top notch clubs. We consider both the Aces and York as sister clubs and we support their endeavors like they do ours. Great people there and I know you will be satisfied.

If you ever want to come back we would love to have you. Hope to fly with you again.

Blue Sky to you and Merry Christmas,
--
John P. Metcalf
2008 President
Charlotte Aeromodelers
A Gold Leader Club
704.814.8999
www.charlotteaeromodelers.org

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 12:12 PM

Sorry my cut/paste did not bring the whole text. It was not on purpose.

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 12:52 PM

I am making the best effort that I can to stick with the club and not abandon it in this time of need.

Should my proposed payment arrangement be rejected at the next club meeting then I know that I did everything I could to support the club. I will not feel guilty if in a year or two, I can rejoin when things are reasonable once again or better payment structures are allowed.

Please understand that I do not accept the judgment of the officers and ask that my proposed payment plan be voted on as a special payment arrangement for myself. I will try to attend but more than likely my commitment to my church's children's ministry will make that impossible. I am asking that someone make a motion on my behalf and if it is seconded then please vote and count me by proxy. If there is a formal means for making an absentee motion then please provide me with the proper instruction.

I appreciate your consideration at the next meeting and hope that the vote goes my way.

Sincerely,
Kelly Jenkins

CStick Rick

Dec 11, 2008, 08:10 PM

John,
Kudos to your return.

Mr. Jenkin,

With all due respect sir, you throw around alot of insulting words and remarks for someone who I have yet to see at a club meeting. Make your voice heard. Come to your meetings.

It has always been my experience that 20% of those involved in organizations do 80% of the work and this club is no different. Unfortunately it is the 80% that do all the complaining about the work that the 20% percent perform.

Get involved and be a force for positive change or please keep your snide comments to yourself.

And yes if you haven't guessed I consider myself one of the 20% doing 80% of the work. And yes I have three young children and we have church obligations as well.

Merry Christmas

The "Stick"

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 08:26 PM

Well All I Want To Know Is A Lease Signed Yet On New FIELD??? :D
...

Pilotdale

Dec 11, 2008, 08:29 PM

CStick Rick

Dec 11, 2008, 08:38 PM

NO, there is no new lease signed yet. We will be happy to announce it when we do. We have no secrets in the club. TO say anything now would be completely premature and would only jeopardize our possibilities.

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 09:52 PM

I was able to attend a meeting in August. I was quick to fill out the survey and supported the new due structure thinking it to be a little more in the $200 to $250 range. While it was high I understood the reasons and was in support. As I said I had assumed that I would be able to break it up to fit my budget and support the club.

Perhaps I was a little over indulgent in the snide comments department but I am trying to find a way to support the club. It was just extreamly frustrating to use the Paypal renewal link and find that I was unable to signup.

Judging from the attendance at the August meeting I felt that perhaps a similar small percentage of club members at the October meeting voted on the payment stucture.

I have proposed a simple, effective way to handle a structured payment that solves the collection headaches. Based on the August meeting financial report which was before the two big flyins (that had to be combined due to weather), I do not believe that the cash flow is such a great justification against the payment plan method. However I do realize that I am working off of 5 month old impressions of my first meeting.

How close are you to the numbers needed to make the $325 level work?

I really do not want to leave until I know for sure that there is no workable solution for breaking up the $325. I hope that you will keep my letter and payments until it can be voted on at the January meeting.

It might be an interesting statistic to know how many others are like me and could handle a payment plan instead of just walking away from the club.

It is standard practice to offer discounts for early payment in full or to charge a fee for administering a payment plan. I do not recall a question like that on the survey.

Thanks,
Kelly

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 10:29 PM

From: welles
To: jenkins; metcalf; gantt; turton
CC: jenkins
Subject: RE: PayPal Renewal
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:55:15 -0500

Kelly-

If by some stretch this motion were to be approved, how many hours per month can I put you down for to assist with the processing and record- keeping involved with this plan? I would also need assistance with collections as post-dated checks are no guarantee of payment as people can stop payment on them or simply close the account. When that happens, we incur returned check fees that we need to recover as well.

Cameron Welles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kelly Jenkins (jenkins)
Sent: Thu 12/11/08 11:17 PM
To: welles; John P. Metcalf (jmetcalf); gantt; turton
Cc: jenkins

I am willing to put my time where my mouth is. My bank charges $25 to stop payment on a check so that is not a very workable option for anyone trying to get out of the payments.

I just posted a reply on the discussion forum where I asked if there were any statistics on how many are like me and could make it work if a payment schedule was offered.

Another option is similar to the plan I used to pay for my son's karate lessions. I signed an automated draft agreement with a collection company that gave the school the money and then collected the draft over the year. I believe in that situation the school got the money up front.

I guess the question is what is the bennefit to risk ratio of the dues that can be collected using a payment plan versus the costs of admin and returned check fees.

The old model of $75 dues is way different than when the dues are $325 which represents 1 of 33 instead of 1 of 90 members. I believe that a little more analysis along these lines might be interesting. However once again we need to know how many can stay if other options are available.

Based on the number of views of this thread there may be more like me that can justify $27 a month but not $325.

By the way I also understand that the same arguements are equally valid for seinor members at the $195 level with fixed incomes being what they are and retirement plan losses growing daily.

Kelly

kljenkin

Dec 11, 2008, 11:20 PM

Mr. Jenkin,

With all due respect sir, you throw around alot of insulting words and remarks for someone who I have yet to see at a club meeting. Make your voice heard. Come to your meetings.

It has always been my experience that 20% of those involved in organizations do 80% of the work and this club is no different. Unfortunately it is the 80% that do all the complaining about the work that the 20% percent perform.

Get involved and be a force for positive change or please keep your snide comments to yourself.

The "Stick"

I have made a meeting and have only been a member since July.

I am attempting to get involved even if I started out rather rudely and my venue is the discussion forum.

At least over the last 24 hours only I might argue that my time on emails and replies should be counted toward the goal of being one of the 20% involved.

And in my reply to Mr Welles, I did indicate an interest in putting some time toward the payment plan activities and analysis needed since the membership and dues model for a club like this are off the charts of normal.

Is there anyway to use the discussion forum to gather statistics on those interested in a payment plan? Could a new survey be done along these lines? I will help if allowed or needed.

My children's ministry committment is to Big Mamas Attic at Hickory Grove Baptist Church. We do a 30 minute program two times each Sunday morning for about 250 3-7 year olds. We practice on Tuesday nights for an hour and then 45 minutes on Sunday morning before the show. Every week is a new original skit written by the pastor's wife/daughters. If the characters that I play do not have lines or we have a holiday I do try to get to a meeting but the timing most often keeps me from attending the meetings.
Checkout the website www.bigmamasattic.com/
This ministry even to 3-7 year olds does bring entire families to the church because the kids invite friends and then they are so excited about church the little kids drag the parents to church. Sorry but I guess you can see that I take my committments seriously.

AND .... I use a spell checker better than PilotDale !!! :D

CStick Rick

Dec 11, 2008, 11:36 PM

Mr. Jenkins,

Your frustration is understood. I have to admit I feel an undercurrent in your posts in which you feel the people involved or the club officers involved did not put forward due dilligence in the conclusions or decisions in which they decided to make. Or as if we did not have the clubs best interests at heart when we decided upon the new dues structure. I can attest every decision made was done so to insure the integrity and longevity of the Charlotte Aeromodelers.

You stated you were at the August meeting, well there was an abundance of information that was disseminated between then and the September meeting. All of which was directly related to the direction that the club needed to go and be voted on. The September meeting was highly publicized through email and the website to be the most important meeting the club has had in the last several years. The September meeting was probably the largest attended meeting of the year because of this. I am not sure of an exact count but there were almost fifty members. It was at this meeting that the voting took place in large part pertaining to the new dues structure. I understand members have other obligations, and I will be the first to say God and Jesus come before model airplanes every single time, but you cannot now sit and throw rocks from the gallery as you are.

The leadership of this club has been working tirelessly to secure a new location for us to fly for a reasonable fee. The officers have already made it known, if the new lease provides financial relief from our current needs, they will refund a portion of the dues. That can only be considered upon the securing of a new location first. The idea of having the treasurer have to keep up with monthly payments is staggering. Please do not forget our treasurer is a small business owner and has a family as well. He as well as the rest of the officers do not get paid for their time and I might add this. The by-laws of CAM state that all officers do not have to pay club dues. As a past president, I can attest to the fact that all officers of this club have voluntarily paid there dues just like every other member. I believe that shows the dedication of every officer to the club.

If you have a beef with what has currently been voted on and approved by the club members, please do not air it in the manner in which you have. Using a public forum as you have will not accomplish anything but hard feelings. If prior obligations do not permit you to attend many meetings, you can easily make your ideas known the John Metcalf prior to the meeting and have them represented in your absence. Please understand my comments are made with the utmost respect to you and your opinions, but I feel both sides need to be represented in this matter.

The "Stick"

kljenkin

Dec 12, 2008, 12:03 AM

Mr. Welles,

Well said. Thank you for your detailed response, I see from this and "Stick's" reply that he just posted that the Sept meeting was the key meeting and very well attended.

I do apologize that my remarks did insinuate that you officers were not willing to work. That was actually a much more rude and insulting remark than it was intended. :o

I encourage you to post your detailed email reply also.

Thank you for your time,
Kelly

P.S. I will still hope for the best and am willing to help if allowed or if possible.

kljenkin

Dec 12, 2008, 12:14 AM

The Stick,

Likewise, very well said.

But darn it, I can't stand the thought of not being able to stick with the club simply because I can't structure the payments. AND I can't stand the thought of things going south because I am not able to be counted as one of the 33 that is needed when I am willing to stay and pay. :confused:

That is what really has me so scared and the reason I am questioning past decisions. I do not want things to go bad for the club for want of a few more members that could have stayed if a payment plan was allowed. But I see the problems if everyone did payments and I do acknowledge the difficulties and risks of admin for a payment or subscription plan.

Thanks,
Kelly

Pilotdale

Dec 12, 2008, 03:52 AM

MAN THIS SITE IS PUMPING.. I TOO AM A HGBC Member.. My Wife is a Teacher up ther.. And I dont use Spell Cker.. But MAN IS THIS SITE HOT ?? OR not.. I dont knwo wher speeeler cker iz.. If so I wood use it.. :)

Dont worry Kelly.. I got u covered..

Penguin

sparkplug1

Dec 12, 2008, 06:12 AM

I voted for the $325. dues to be paid all at one time, also. However a recession has hit and a payment option would be great. I am in constrution
and things are starting to get tight.I fill like if a payment plan is not accepted
we will end up with 8 members ,then where will the club be. What about a 3
month pay plan and if you haven't paid in full by April then add a $100. rejoining fee. I think that would insure more members joining.We really do need to get this new lease signed and get away from Little Airfield.

High Clouds To Ya

Pilotdale

Dec 12, 2008, 07:43 AM

EXTEND PAYMENTS

YES

Would be good Idea.... Will have more Members... Wont you ???

kljenkin

Dec 12, 2008, 08:27 AM

What this feels like is that I am not willing to turn my back on the club BUT the club is turning its back on me. I am sure that all would agree that it is not the intension of the club, its members or officers. I have only been in the hobby a year and the club for six months and I feel so passionately about this that I felt the best way to make my point and get a discussion going “to be an agent of change” was by putting my own personal needs and finances on a public forum.

I can’t imagine how a multi-year veteran of this club feels as he joins another club because some landowner went postal on his flying club !!!

My payment plan is an option that works for me because my wife is a nurse and I have a job at the City of Charlotte. But what about the they guy whose business is tied to housing, banking, auto or any of a dozens of other industries. We need a way to help them stay in the club even if they pay nothing or last year’s dues and we setup some kind of sweat equity so they can pay off the rest of their dues.

I am going to change the proposal that I bring (or someone brings for me) at the next meeting. What we need is to establish a benevolence committee that can work with members (old and new) to find a payment plan or sweat equity arrangement that will allow them to stay in the club. To do the unheard of and grow the club even in this economy and in these hard times as the club looks for a new site. I will be glad to serve on, chair or co-chair such a committee.

One of the first things that will be needed is a fund raiser (like a group yard sale) to give the committee the funds it needs to make up the difference between what a person can pay versus what he wants to pay or the way he can pay.