how can I get this colour "wash"?

[pmdevlin]

sorry if in wrong section, but here goes. I am restoring a Huntsman 28, just finished the planking, but struggling getting the bleached or washed effect, as in the pics of 3 real Huntsman. (its the outside deck I am doing)

I have never done this before, thinned grey just looks dirty, and thinned white does not look anything !!

Any ideas would be appreciated!

Thanks

[patmat2350]

So it's not just me that's baffled! I too long for a solution for obtaining faded teak:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958942 and
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671706

It's a mysterious mix of brown and gray, darn if I can replicate what Mother Nature does so well...

[Willj]

paint the planks white first or teak with a few thin coats.Let dry. then you will have a base to lay your grey wash over. You might even just dry brush over the base color. or powder the deck with earth powders or baby powder or whatever powders you think might work. then matte seal. Practice on scraps first. :) If you decide to directly powder your deck, clear coat the deck first then apply the powder. This gives you better control applying the powder and if you dont like the result you can blow/ brush it off and try again. don`t use excessive amounts of powder. be gentle. use a blush brush. the idea is you dust/feather it on. try doing yourself up as a woman to get the hang of the blush brush or maybe not. ;)

[Aerominded]

This article on the subject, is good! :)

http://sfmyc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=78

[pmdevlin]

Hi Pat, that pic of ""Exact", Fort Lauderdale" is exactly it! Did you ever resolve how to do it? I have recently finished an Orca, this Huntsman project is quite different from doing that scruffy old boat from Jaws! And it really needs to be right.
Strange that all those 3 different boats pictured have all weathered the same, wasnt the huntsman regarded as a bit of a floating gym palace?, yet all the decks have been left to deteriorate?
Nice link aero, the cabin sides, and the deck where the crab basket sits is the colour I want, but the author didnt say which paints etc he used.
Thanks for response will, but i cant see the reason for the powder, will this not just create a "lumpy" finish? Its just the weathered colour I need.
Thanks to all

[Aerominded]

...wasnt the huntsman regarded as a bit of a floating gym palace?, yet all the decks have been left to deteriorate?


Teak is actually happy, left unfinished like that as long as it is not left to turn black... those pictures of the huntsman you've posted show good care by the owners. :)

[more coffee]

the grayish outter planks may do well with a little baking soda and diluted in water

thats my best guess ,and what i used to help draw attention from new planks i put in my fence on the advice of the guy at the hardware store ...

[Shaun Hendricks]

Would hydrogen peroxide prematurely oxidize teak?

[patmat2350]

PMDevlin- nope, I remain baffled.
And most of us don't want to rapidly age teak, as we're not using it in the first place- the grain is way too big for most scales. I'd like to make light colored fine grain whitish/yellowish woods (basswood = lime) look like that.
"WeatherIt" does give the gray, but I haven't come back and tried to add the right brown to it.

[Aerominded]

Seems that the author of that article used a combination of browns to come up with the right base... It is probably all trial and error no exact recipe... :(

I have to admit, I am in exactly the same spot you guys are on with a sailboat project- it has teak benches and a teak floor in the cockpit that I want to make look oxidized too...

[tigerbay]

On the real boat the teak is not treated/varnished on all the deck. Where you will walk on the outer edges it is left unfinished so you do not slip when wet. It is just scrubed clean.

I am not an expert on finishing. But this is what I would do.
Maybe the solution it to get a blade and srape back the varnish to leave bare wood. If you are using teak then this will take on the grey colour quickly. Teak is fairly robust and not effected by water that much.

Alternatively, if not teak. In those areas that need to be grey. Mix a water based grey acrylic paint (mix black and white) with water to create an acrylic wash of even colour in the shade that works when dry. You will need to test on scrap wood to get the colouration right.
Then seal in with a matt acrylic varnish.

[Aerominded]

but there is that elusive brown/green color in there somewhere too! :)

[craig_c]

I have not done this (grayed teak) (had no call to... yet), but the theory is based on other woodworking jobs I have done...

OK, first for something like this we need to get away from thinking paints, and start thinking stains and dyes. Instead of thinning paints, trying to getting a semi-transparent surface 'wash' coating; I recommend using dyes, probably at full strength. (I really like W. D. Lockwoods water or alcohol soluble dye powders).

1) Dyes are a transparent medium capable of very deep penetration of the wood substrate.
2) The colors are infinite as they can be mixed to exactly the shade wanted or by application of one color over another (transparent, remember).
3) The 'depth' (saturation) of the color is deepened by multiple applications without changing the base or building up a thick, detail destroying surface coat.
4) Since the Lockwoods’ dyes are supplied as either water or alcohol soluble dyes (1 oz packet makes a quart.) as much or as little as needed can be mixed at a time.
5) These dyes KEEP! Just add more of the appropriate solvent. (I have some deep ‘red mahogany’ stain that was mixed over 20 years ago… used some a couple of months ago, just as fresh as when I mixed it.)
6) Making a wash just means diluting the stock solution.
7) At least to my ol' eyes, these dyes appear to be sunlight fast.

Anyway, a much better set of instructions is here…. (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/LW-dyeinfo.html)

Here’s the entire line of colors (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=CLW) and

Here is their Silver Gray (#92) (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=LW-WMIS.XX&Category_Code=CLWW) which would probably be a good place to start this project after bleaching out (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=LB-0210.XX&Category_Code=) with Oxalic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid) and maybe lightly wire-brushing the wood to scuff it up (simulated wear & tear).

Then finish as you usually would finish the deck; though a dull finish would probably be best, maybe a rubbed out (000 or 0000 steel wool) finish.

Oh, one other thing; use gloves… this stuff stains fingers exceptionally well. :rolleyes:

By the way... the Mahog alcohol stains can really make some of that cheap hobby store lauan look beautiful and even out the color.

[tigerbay]

but there is that elusive brown/green color in there somewhere too! :)

So fetch one up and spit in the colour wash :(

[craig_c]

So fetch one up and .............eewwwwwwwwwww urp

'Sides, you'll find plenty of greens (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=LW-WCON.XX&Category_Code=CLWW) here.

[bikemec]

What about painting them a light grey and using some games workshop washes, I've used them on several models for aging, oil stains etc...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1290213&rootCatGameStyle=

a light layer of the green or brown both wiped of again might work they are water based but dry hard and can be used in airbrushes...

[pmdevlin]

some great ideas, I have used games workshop before on other projects, but I have to admit Craigs ideas of getting away from thinned paint, and getting a wash, looks good.
Someone else has suggested this:
http://www.epinions.com/Paint-Minwax_White_Wash_Pickling_Stain_1_Qt
somewhere is the answer!!

[Willj]

Hi Pat, that pic of ""Exact", Fort Lauderdale" is exactly it! Did you ever resolve how to do it? I have recently finished an Orca, this Huntsman project is quite different from doing that scruffy old boat from Jaws! And it really needs to be right.
Strange that all those 3 different boats pictured have all weathered the same, wasnt the huntsman regarded as a bit of a floating gym palace?, yet all the decks have been left to deteriorate?
Nice link aero, the cabin sides, and the deck where the crab basket sits is the colour I want, but the author didnt say which paints etc he used.
Thanks for response will, but i cant see the reason for the powder, will this not just create a "lumpy" finish? Its just the weathered colour I need.
Thanks to all

As I said, clear coat your deck then dust on the earth powder. The powders are ultra fine dust. The dust is very airborne so you have to work with it carefully. If you don`t like the result gently brush it off and start again. You then have to seal the dust with matte sealer. the second solution is to clear coat the deck with a testors or humbrol clear then use the water base stain or watercolor over top. Apply this with a rag or sponge to get the wash effect. as well you have to seal. This second method is probly your better choice. I`ll do a test and show you a pic later today

[more coffee]

i just had a brain fart......


why not just leave it outside for a few months and let mother nature have her way with it .....

not to be rude ,,but... the its using the same element of wear in the same way...only on a smaller surface ......may work in a short while ...

[craig_c]

What about painting them a light grey...<clip>Part of the point is that paints cover and hide the wood as well as obscuring physical detail and grain; dyes allow the wood to shine through.

We tend not to think of stains a lot because a lot of folk are paint biased especially since it's where most of us got our starts and it's usually what the local hobby shop (LHS) stocks (and I know no one pre-mixes IJN gray or FS colored stain ;) ).

Plastics and metals, still the mainstays of the hobby industry, must be color coated (painted) as these do not take staining (metal bluing and browning don't count in this discussion, neither does electroplating ;) ).

Since paint will essentially seal a surface, we default in our thinking to modifying that surface with additional layers. Adding shadow or tonality with washes, dry-brush, etc.

The reasons I suggest a water or alcohol stain based approach over paint, in this case, at least as a base, is that you can, without obscuring the wood in anyway, change it's color (with near infinite finesse) and, to a certain extent, it's texture (Oxalic acid).

You could probably even get that lightly mottled effect with selective dying; probably bleach randomly applied to a wetted-out dyed surface (a toothbrush at six inches comes to mind), allowed to stand for a moment and then flushed. Another, diluted dye application might need to follow to blend the bleached areas.

As mentioned before, there is no build-up of coating thickness as multiple applications are made.

Moreover, since dyes penetrate, you can physically "weather" the wood as well without worrying about penetrating an uber-thin layer of paint or paint-wash and having to start over again.

[pmdevlin]

good points craig, I went to great length selecting the planks used, as they had nice long grains, which when shaped around the deck, particluarly at the bow, look really nice, and "real" I never thought that just painting would potentially hide the grain. I searched a few local hardware stores today, for something like the "pickling" whitewash mentioned earlier, none found, no one had heard of it! I did find a small tin of decking stain, in a light grey, so going to give that a go, its water based, so can try watering down, or mixing some white to lighten it up a bit, but keep the ideas coming all!!

[Willj]

OK. Here`s my test piece on very small scale, pre-scribed planking.the planks are 2mm.

1. sprayed sample with 3 coats of clear gloss testors to seal surface. sanded lightly between coats to remove fuzzies and level surface.

when dry

2. washed over with a brush with diluted acrylic " coconut milk color "( off white ) to my visual satisfaction.

when dry

3. took cigarette ash and rubbed on planks with my finger

4. sealed with matte sealer


now, perhaps your planking is already on your boat. this creates a few challanges but not a big deal. Ideally ,I think procedure would all be done before the planks are permanently applied to the deck. this way you don`t muck up othe parts. The caulking I would do last and probly use a grey pencil crayon .anyway, there ya go. hope you like the results

[craig_c]

OK. Here`s my test piece on very small scale, pre-scribed planking.Looks nice Willlj. Good work!

The proof of the pudding though, like any make-up test, comes under the lighting conditions where the "star" is going to be displayed, which is to say, most likely outside, on a bright, sunny day.

Best way to color / texture test this would be flat, with bright, direct sunlight with the sun positioned at 10 or 2 o'clock in the sky. Pics would be shot at 90 and 45 degrees and 'on the deck.' (I know this ain't really fair this time o'year)

(ok, I'm a nit-picker, but in this case, your pics look like they were shot using reflected skylight (blue sky) coming through a window. The problem with that is that light from a blue sky has about twice the proportion of blue shades as does direct sunlight which skews you photos deep into the "cool" portion of the spectrum.)

[tigerbay]

Craig

You can be too picky. As everybaot deck will vary in shade from boat to boat, time of year, and in defferent areas of the same deck, as well as when it was last scrubbed. So exactitude is not appropriate perhaps.

[craig_c]

pmdevlin: How do you intend to do the caulking?

[Willj]

Looks nice Willlj. Good work!

The proof of the pudding though, like any make-up test, comes under the lighting conditions where the "star" is going to be displayed, which is to say, most likely outside, on a bright, sunny day.

Best way to color / texture test this would be flat, with bright, direct sunlight with the sun positioned at 10 or 2 o'clock in the sky. Pics would be shot at 90 and 45 degrees and 'on the deck.' (I know this ain't really fair this time o'year)

(ok, I'm a nit-picker, but in this case, your pics look like they were shot using reflected skylight (blue sky) coming through a window. The problem with that is that light from a blue sky has about twice the proportion of blue shades as does direct sunlight which skews you photos deep into the "cool" portion of the spectrum.)


You are absolutely right!It is a good idea , if one can do the detailing or ageing outside under/in natural daylight conditions. I did up this sample in my studio with particular lighting conditions. To say the least, the conditions were not the best. the pics on the left were taken outside on my deck in the afternoon under winter skies when light seems to be a bit more difused and lesser in intensity. The pics on the right were taken by an open window in my office.

[craig_c]

Willj...

If you get a chance, I would like to see how your paint test looks under bright sunlight

[pmdevlin]

great effort will, many thanks, A picture certainly is better than a thousand words!

ok, the planking is on the boat. It was a real bad job to do, it was certainly the biggest job I have done,although I have done 2 other boats, this was the first big planking project. It took a couple of months to do, as work and family commitments meant not much time. Each plank was laid for a minimum of 24 hours, with alphitic glue, after 48 hours of soaking and steaming, as they do not just go straight, but follow the contours of the deck, and as they got to the bow, the "bend " was a nightmare. THen the caulking between each plank, was thick grey card, which was given 48 hrs minimum to dry.
If I did it all over, it would probably be better, but the time I have spent, you can now see why i want to get the colour relastic. There are a couple of mistakes!! but some aptly placed deck clutter will sort that out, I figure take the eye away, and it will not be seen! Could not get photo, but here is a short video clip tonight, bad light, but you get the idea.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nLWPFEjk7ho


I have taken what has been said, and have started experimenting with a combination of all ideas, thinning paint, using stains, the best reult on test pieces has been a light grey garden furniture stain, heavily watered down, with a small touch of water based white paint. Rubbed with a cloth. Painted with a small brush seems to be better, I am slowly building up the coats to avoid losing the grain