Do you remember the Nobler

[Dauntae]

I am now experimenting with Scratch building foamie aerobats and my father was in
his day a competitor in control line and still has 2 of his favorite planes in the attic, 2 Noblers (one he competed with and one he never finished with a foam wing)and I would like to know if anyone knows any links or information about them so I could surprise him with one without having to ask him.
thanx for any info.
Dauntae

[steve lewin]

The Nobler kit is still produced by Brodak http://www.brodak.com/ though I've never heard of a foam wing version (sounds disgusting). Or of anyone converting one to electric !

Steve

[ChrisP]

Originally posted by slewin:
I've never heard of anyone converting one to electric !

There was a smaller version called, I think, the Mini Nobler. About 42'' span. I built one up in the early 80's with a Robbe 540 motor with 2:1 gearbox.

Couldn't get it to fly at all.

I had completely forgotten I had built it !!

[BobK]

Although I no longer have the Nobler itself I still have the box the kit came in, complete with price tag -- $14.95.

[Dauntae]

Originally posted by slewin:
The Nobler kit is still produced by Brodak http://www.brodak.com/ though I've never heard of a foam wing version (sounds disgusting). Or of anyone converting one to electric !

Steve

He scratch built the C/L one with a foam wing, However I am not just converting one to electric but converting the idea to R/C. I grew up with C/L around me but I am into R/C now and would like to see a Nobler R/C soaring away. Don't get me wrong, C/L is a art all by it self and I know how much skill there is involved but I just want to bring a little bit of his past to my presant if you get where I am coming from.

Dauntae

[Ryan Nau]

yeah, brodak makes kits of it know. Brodak kits are very nice kits. I have 4 brodak stunt planes and 2 racing planes know flying. There are a few guys that use foam wings in control line stunt I have seen and heard. Most of the combat planes in control line have foam wings.

[Dauntae]

Originally posted by Ryan Nau:
yeah, brodak makes kits of it know. Brodak kits are very nice kits. I have 4 brodak stunt planes and 2 racing planes know flying. There are a few guys that use foam wings in control line stunt I have seen and heard. Most of the combat planes in control line have foam wings.

I went to the brodak site and could not find the Nobler but will be taking measurments off Dads clasics. This is going to be a slow learning process but if it all works out I'll post some pics.

Dauntae

[Ryan Nau]

All Brodaks planes are on his internet site. Go to www.brodak.com, (http://www.brodak.com,) then kits, and its under old time stunt planes. All my control lines are glow, no electrics yet. I have the Oriental, Buster, Tomahawk, and Super Clown, all from Brodak!

[BobK]

Top Flite sold an "R/C Nobler" kit some time in the late 60's or early 70's. Maybe you could track down plans for it?

The kit was not a great success, BTW.

[ChrisP]

Originally posted by BobK:
Top Flite sold an "R/C Nobler" kit some time in the late 60's or early 70's. Maybe you could track down plans for it?

The kit was not a great success, BTW.

Shame you're all so far away. My R/C Nobler is cluttering up my cellar and I'd happily give it away for free !

[Dereck]

The real Nobler would be exciting as RC - the inner wing panel (which side that is depends on how old your Nobler plan is!) is longer than the outside panel.

A foam wing Nobler would be on a par with spitting in church http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/eek.gif

Would bet the Brodak kit would be the fastest route. Some years ago, I had a plan I got from a company called "Hobby Horn" - it had the longer wing on the right, being set up for 'left to right' circulating, as opposed to 'right to left' as usually practiced these days. I don't know if I still have it, but do remember there to be a lot of little bits of wood in there.

I recall a spread on an electric RC Nobler on a web page - who does the *.calc program in NC? Might have been his pages.

It's got a big fat wing section - not goof for an electric.

Dereck

[Dauntae]

Yikes I never knew you C/l guys disliked foam so much. I wanted to explain my plan a little better so you could understand why I plan to use foam, I grew up around C/L with my father which has not flown in more than 25 years still talks about his Nobler and I am a elec R/C flyer still fairly new but new never the less, I would love an IC plane built up because I love to build and still have my C/L Ringmaster right here but for R/C there is a problem with flying space, so few places to fly, I have a very large sports field I fly at and they told me I can fly whenever I want when there are no games BUT no gas is allowed on the field mostly because there is a new school right next to it. So hence the small elec. planes are my only reasonable option at this time. What I want to do with the Nobler is not to convert one but to copy something close to a D.A.W. Extra 300S http://www.davesaircraftworks.com/
but to have it appear to be a Nobler, So Basically I plan to copy the wing shape of a 50 mph elec. Aerobat with about a 34 in wingspan but configure it to look like the Nobler.
Dauntae

[jbourke]

Weird. I just got a press release about a reissue of the Nobler. What a coincidence!

Top Flite Gold Edition R/C Nobler
THE BEST OF 'NOW'...AND 'THEN'

It's the classic Nobler from years ago, only better. Top Flite celebrates the 30th anniversary of this beloved sport model with a new version that's stronger, lighter, and even easier to build - thanks to Gold Edition
engineering - for a smooth-flying 4- to 5-channel sport plane with a solid reputation.

This updated kit features precisely die-cut parts that speed assembly by eliminating sanding and shaping; the wings are strengthened by I-beam, D-tube construction with a trailing edge D-tube spar. Even when fully equipped, the new Nobler is lighter than the original Top Flite kit. That's because weight is kept to a minimum by eliminating blocks and using built-up construction for the tail and control surfaces. The radio and fuel tank compartments are concealed and covered by hatch covers, which remove and reattach quickly at the field. An included, adjustable engine mount accepts any 2- or 4-stroke engine in the recommended range, and you'll find that this plane flies well with an economical 2-stroke .46-sized engine. All the parts for fixed landing gear are included, along with instructions for installing optional retracts. The R/C Nobler is ideal as a third kit for fliers with low-wing experience, excelling at aerobatics while also being stable at low speeds.

Specifications -
Wingspan: 51 in (1295mm)
Wing Area: 550 sq in (35.5dm2)
Weight: 3.5-5 lb (1.6-2.3kg)
Wing Loading: 14.7-20.9 oz/sq ft (45-64g/dm2)
Length: 42.4 in (1080mm)
Requires: 2-stroke .25-.50 cu in (4.0-8.0cc) or 4-stroke .40-.52 cu in (6.5-8.5cc) engine, 4-6 channel radio w/5-7 servos
Retail
TOPA0220 R/C Nobler .25-.50 $149.99

Visit the Top Flite world wide web site at www.top-flite.com (http://www.top-flite.com)

[Fred Bronk]

Yes, but it made me dizzy! http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/biggrin.gif

[GWS4CEO]

I have CL .35 Nobler and CL .19 Jr. Nobler during 1970~1974.

Since GWS is making a lot RC slow flyer kits. It's call my good remember of my good old time during high school. GWS already started to make an RC indoor fun fly " RC Micro Nobler". Proto type been made at summer, still wait for many improvement! GWS products come not so quick but less complains. :D

Of course, you may use this kit converte back to CL easily. Will be equipped with GWS-EPS 300C, or EDP 400.

Will also start a new thred on RC slowflyer too. Try to do some RC with GWS products, may be a new life started? Why not!;)

[Looooeeee!]

Hi

Does anyone remember the Cox produced and engined Me 109 stunter. I acquired one from a neighborhood kid whose first flight ended with a wing over that splatted...still have the engine but the plane is long gone. I remember the foam wing was like an early depron product, skinned foam halves that you glued around the edges and then either sealed or left unpainted. It seems that Cox also sold the wing cores for aftermarket kitbasher's.

Looee

[steve lewin]

Well they're long way from Noblers, even that rather unpleasant R/C Nobler but I believe you can still get several of the Cox C/L starter kits if that's the same thing.

I saw a Corsair in my LHS only a couple of weeks ago. I was almost tempted except that I never did like Cox engines :). A friend has a Stuka from many years ago. We drag it out occasionally but we've never managed to get the motor to run at the field, it's o.k. at home :(

Steve

[Looooeeee!]

Hi Steve

No, this was about as close as you could get to a real .049 powered ARF stunter. Very light fuselage out of really thin styro and the foam wing and tail surfaces, all powered by a Black Widow .049. Also very fragile. There was a plan using the wing in one of my '70's M.A.N.'s where the designer was using TD's and a Medallion .09.

The secret to getting Cox engines to fire up and run is to replace the wimpy wires in the glowhead clip with heavier gauge wire. And use a fresh charged NiCd "C" cell. Always brought my little engines to life. The Cox reed-valve engines do have a need for the spring starter. My twenty five year old Medallion .09 starts on the first flip with fuel to the needle, a hot battery and the ports wet with a drop or two of prime.

The scale, heavy plastic, Cox ready-to-crash models are not even in the same league as the Me109.

Looee

[iankraus]

My father had a .35 nobler he was overly fond of and would never let me fly it(possibly a wise decision). I had to be content with my .35 midwest magician, t-bird, ringmaster flash, flight streak. I also liked cl combat wings. There is something about being able feel the plane in flight. You can feel so much thru the line tension and feel.
Nothing like diesal fuel ether stinking out all the food in the fridge!!!!!!!
How about a geared 05 flight streak??

[Joe Messinger]

Brodak offers full size plan sheets for the Noble (and many others). The Nobler plans are $20.00 for 3 sheets.

[willin]

Quote by Looooeeee: Does anyone remember the Cox produced and engined Me 109 stunter

I remember that model... Had one myself. yes Cox had a wingset that you bought with plans for a C/L plane with them. these show up on Ebay from time to time. Usually in the plastic baggie as it was sold.

Those wings folded over like a clamshell and used double sided tape to secure the trailing edges together.

The ME 109 and the Chipmonk (it was red white and blue) were way more advanced than the usual Cox planes.

Robert

[mdgretz]

FYI
LOTS of Noblers were built in the 1960s and early 70s with balsa sheeted foam wings made by Mike Stott's FOAM-FLITE company in Mankato, Minnesota (my hometown). I built two myself, powered with Fox 35 Stunt engines. I saw LOTS of Nobler foam wings go out FOAM-FLITE'S door.

Mike Gretz

[pmackenzie]

I am surprised that no one mentioned it, but there is an ARF Nobler (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDUM0&P=7) available from Top Flite:
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/t/topa1005.jpg
They are straight, light and fly great.
The only downside is the less than ideal control systems that have caused a few crashes.
Lots of people replace the controls, and I think Tom Morris (http://www.tomsbuildingservice.biz/index.htm) sells a compete replacement set that should be bullet proof.
Tom Dixon (http://members.tripod.com/TomDixon/models.htm) also sells Nobler kits, including the Gieseke Nobler. Foam wings for it as well.
UHP (http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/catalog/CLkits.htm) also sells a laser cut kit for the Gieseke Nobler.
( In case you don't know, the Gieseke Nobler is the version Bob Gieseke used to win the W/C in 1968.)
Pat Mackenzie

[Hossfly]

I am surprised that no one mentioned it, but there is an ARF Nobler available from Top Flite:



Right on, however I was wondering same thing until I noticed the first 19 posts were some 4 years old. No TF Arfs back then.
Back in the '60s, I built about 3 of them. Late '60s I was into another machine however I built another as I was competing in the San Antonio area, and G. Aldrich was generally chief judge. Flying a Nobler pumped the score up some points. Gotta' take 'em where you can get 'em. :p

[feathermerchant]

The real Nobler would be exciting as RC - the inner wing panel (which side that is depends on how old your Nobler plan is!) is longer than the outside panel.

A foam wing Nobler would be on a par with spitting in church http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/eek.gif

Would bet the Brodak kit would be the fastest route. Some years ago, I had a plan I got from a company called "Hobby Horn" - it had the longer wing on the right, being set up for 'left to right' circulating, as opposed to 'right to left' as usually practiced these days. I don't know if I still have it, but do remember there to be a lot of little bits of wood in there.

I recall a spread on an electric RC Nobler on a web page - who does the *.calc program in NC? Might have been his pages.

It's got a big fat wing section - not goof for an electric.

Dereck

Derek - The late George Aldrich created the Nobler. He and my dad were good friends. He flew 'left hand' while most fly 'right hand'. That explains the right wing being longer than the left wing.
My father and I have done some experimenting with an old Tanager I built some time ago. The 2820/10 works well. Seems to have as much power as a 35. We used an 11X5.5 as I recall.
Dad has a nobler he plans to electrify.

[Bruno van Hoek]

My Nobler- Fox 35 (1972), a mix between the Gieseke and Grondal lay-outs looked like this (what awful colour these old slides produced..):
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/Nobler%201a.jpg
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/Nobler%203a.jpg
This was on our Dutch Nats 1975:
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/Bruno%20+%20Nobler.jpg
I kept the colour scheme throughout the years ;) Bluegrass Baby, a modified Derringer - ST G21/46 (1986)
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/Bluegrass%20baby%20'85.jpg
And look here: Bluegrass Bird, CAP look-a-like, a modified Beringer Caudron - ST 60 ( Euro Champs 2004):
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/27.jpg
Now who's that? Almost bald and grey but still flying F2B... :D
http://home.hccnet.nl/b.van.hoek/Plaatjes/29.jpg

[bobthenuke]

I had a .19 Nobler kit in the early 60's (with a two speed OS motor) and have a Brodak kit NIB sitting in my closet for the past several years.

[P-38J-Lightning]

two speed?

[Marten]

I found this some time ago, and bookmarked it as a potential build out of depron. Enjoy!

Marten

http://digilander.libero.it/ucontrol2000/U-Control-2000/build.htm

[TLyttle]

Yup, two-speed. Lots of engines from that era had a carb with 2 needle valves, used for Navy Carrier c/l and some r/c models. Better throttles came along later, so a 2-speed motor is a rarity now...

[50+AirYears]

There's also a reproduction of the original Top Flite Nobler by RSM distribution. Lists for about $109, marked down a bit in the Penn Valley Hobby Center Newsletter.
American Modeler had the original construction article for the RC version, which led to the original Top Flite kit. A copy of the article may be available through the AMA archives.
A report in the old Model Builder magazine in the early 80s or thereaboutsmentioned how the designer, George Aldrich, was competing with one of the more moder 45 powered PA planes when he had a re-kitting. He somehow had access to the original Nobler, complette with the original Fox 35, so he finished his last two flites with the antique. Finished in the top 10.

[profcapo]

In Italy isn't impossible to find the Top Flite Kit of Nobler rc (TOPA0220).
an you help me to buy this kit. Thank you very much

[pmackenzie]

Discontinued:
http://www.top-flite.com/discontinued/topa0220.html
Perhaps a request in the For Sale/Wanted forum?
Pat MacKenzie

[feathermerchant]

I'll bet you can find plans.

[willin]

Nobler plans available here:
http://members.tripod.com/~TomDixon/plans.htm

Also available here:
http://www.controllineplans.com/stuntpage1.htm

According to this link to Top Flite The Plan for the Nobler and several discontinued kits is still available:
http://www.top-flite.com/parts/discontinued.html

Two different Nobler plans are listed on this page:
http://www.clstunt.com/plans.htm

Here is free Nobler plan!:
http://digilander.libero.it/ucontrol2000/U-Control-2000/build.htm

Seems I saw another somwhere.... If I find it I will post.

Robert

[Arecer]

Just found this thread...what a trip down memory lane! I started flying U-control back in 1962 and switched to R/C in 1966 (got my driver's license so I could get to the R/C field).

Anyway, I flew the Top Flite R/C Nobler from 1972 - 1976 and learned how to do 4-point rolls with it. What a great airplane!

[Trisquire]

Wasn't there a story about the designer burying his pipe at the center of the circle after winning the NATS? I thought I read that in AAM years ago. It turned into kind of a tradition I think.

Tom

[50+AirYears]

I still have visions of my first Nobler in 1964, especially how well it flew when both up and down lines broke simultaneously coming out of a loop. Three nice clockwise circles until it finally went into a hard bank and powered in.

[Trisquire]

Keith Shaw once told us about a control line fly away. The plane did nice graceful circles in the sky with the handle as a counter balance.

Tom

[50+AirYears]

My lines broke about 15 and 20 feet from the tip, so with the right wing being 2" shorter than the left, and with the airfoiled fin, there wasn't quite enough balance for prolonged free flight. Still have that Fox 36X, though. It's on a Flite Streak.

[pmackenzie]

Keith Shaw once told us about a control line fly away. The plane did nice graceful circles in the sky with the handle as a counter balance.

Tom
Quite common.
I remember the first time I flew combat.
1/2A planes. The lines crossed, we both let go of the handles.
One plane crashed, the other circled upwards. The lines were still crossed so the downed model ended up getting pulled upwards.
The running plane just kept doing big climbing circles with the other plane and lines as a counter balance.
Motor stopped and it kept circling as it glided down. Ended up on a factory roof. We had to go and get permission to climb up and retrieve them.
That was a long time ago, but I remember it like it was last week. I can clearly picture the planes climbing up, but I can't remember which was running.
Pat MacKenzie

[willin]

The Nobler kit is available here:
http://www.sshobbies.com/bucoliki.html

Robert

[TLyttle]

Yeah, saw a wrist-crack in a combat circle (before thongs), and a 36XX Voodoo left the field vertically. The handle/lines were indeed a couterweight, but the fun was when the model went through turbulence: the model would just go nuts, pulling the tightest inside/outside loops, wild rips across the sky, then become balanced again. It ran out the tank, but by that time it was almost invisible. Once it was powerless, it eventually assumed a stable glide, and circled down to land within 100yds of the circle! Must have been up there for 15min...

[jpmoffatt]

I have been flying a Brodak Baby Clown both as Control Line and RC.

For Control Line, I am using the GWS 2205/13T motor and 2S 1250mah Lipo cells. With the 8x4 GWS prop I get excellent stunt performance on 35 foot lines.

For RC I equipped the Baby Clown with ailerons using the linkage from a GWS Formosa. It flies great as an RC plane. I use the GWS 2205/13T motor, 2S 800mah Lipos and the GWS 5x4.3 prop.

Always wanting to try somthing new, I added RC control for elevator and throttle to the CL Baby Clown and simply connect the plane to a pylon with one line. I fly it RC style. This is described in the CL thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600720

[rchopper56]

Hi,
Some of you may enjoy this file.
Gene

[segraves]

Hi,
Some of you may enjoy this file.
Gene

Many thanks, Gene, for sharing the PDF file of the Nobler article and plans.

I have an original copy of the Model Airplane News (MAN) plans, drawn by Wennerstrom, that I bought from MAN, IIRC, about 50 years ago. According to the article on page 68 of the 75th Anniversary Edition of MAN, the Nobler appeared in the June and July 1952 issues of MAN.

I had a partially finished u-control kit back in the 60s that I had started converting to RC; but it was lost in the process of moving in 1971.

Now, about the PDF file. I noted pages 8-21 represent a posterized or tiled version of the complete plan. I was delighted that I could reconstruct the plan as a single PDF, using iText, a free Java library for manipulating PDFs. On completing that conversion, I was able to compare the PDF with the original print that I have from MAN. The PDF version shows more detail, e.g., patterns for the pieces that form the shape of the wingtip.

Just curious. What was the source of the PDF file that you posted?

Best regards,

Bill Segraves
Auburn, AL USA

[rchopper56]

Bill,
Dave Frizke <http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/> sent me a full size scan as a tif file over a year ago from his collection. I converted the scan to cad and then filled in the missing information. I found scanned copies of June and July 1952 issues of MAN on the Internet at <http://perso.orange.fr/eduardo.affonso/historianobler.htm> I used Acrobat to chance back to PDF and to tile.
The Nobler was about the last control line model that I built back in the 50's before I went into R/C. I hope that I haven't offended anyone by posting my tribute to this great design.
Gene

[segraves]

Bill,
Dave Frizke <http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/> sent me a full size scan as a tif file over a year ago from his collection. I converted the scan to cad and then filled in the missing information. I found scanned copies of June and July 1952 issues of MAN on the Internet at <http://perso.orange.fr/eduardo.affonso/historianobler.htm> I used Acrobat to chance back to PDF and to tile.
The Nobler was about the last control line model that I built back in the 50's before I went into R/C. I hope that I haven't offended anyone by posting my tribute to this great design.
Gene

Gene,

Many thanks for the links, which were still live when I checked them.

I can see you have put a great deal of effort into restoration of plans for the old classic models.

The Nobler plans are very special. I like the way you have combined the construction articles, the complete plan, and the tiles, into a single PDF file.

Best regards,

Bill Segraves

P.S. If you simply need to scale PDFs, it is easy to do this with iText.

[rchopper56]

Bill,
Thanks for pointing out the error in rib 8. I also noticed that because the PDF file is at a low resolution (150dpi), a minor distortion in rib 6 which, I did not change. I have revised rib 8 and reloaded. Thanks again.
Gene

[bofrcr]

Hi guys! Wow!! Lots of memory's!! I had a nobler that was stock cotroline,, and flew it,, seemed forever! it was the coupled flaps and elevator, first c/l plane I had with that!! years later,, on getting into r/c,, I was taken by top flights r/c version,,(didn't take to long to decide to build that!),,and built that, with the coupled flaps too. It created quite the stir among the guys,, seeing it's flying ability's,, with the coupled flaps,, and all done mechanically too! no computer radio's then! LOL I'd have to say it was as close as we could get to 3-D flying back then! If memory serves, I think I had a enya .45 rc engine in it,, and it was also a tri gear set up too,, it was a great flying plane! Electric?,,hmmmm,, very possible,, ok,, just my 2 cents worth,,

[segraves]

Bill,
Thanks for pointing out the error in rib 8. I also noticed that because the PDF file is at a low resolution (150dpi), a minor distortion in rib 6 which, I did not change. I have revised rib 8 and reloaded. Thanks again.
Gene

You're very welcome, Gene.

Thanks for fixing the file.

Bill Segraves