just askin'

[Larry Dudeck]

I've been flying R/C e-planes for just over a year now. I have never flown an IC powered plane and probably won't.

For the life of me, though, I just don't understand control line flying.

I'm not trying to start an argument about which is better...

But, what is the attraction to C/L flying?

Just asking.

[dr.E]

It's the ultimate confined area flying.

[steve lewin]

As Dr E. says you can fly in a very limited area plus it's a lot less expensive than R/C and there's nothing quite like that feel of being physically in control of the plane.

To my mind R/C is more like playing a computer game, which is perhaps one reason why computer simulators are so successful.

But mainly it's just another way for people to have fun with planes.

Steve

[Larry Dudeck]

fair enough...

[Bare]

It's matter of 'Feel' and control.
You can actually feel the model in the air, control is direct and instant(unless you have a Dog model, but that applies to any discipline;-)
I fly both but always come back to the Handle when I actually feel like 'flying' a model rather than twiddling teeny sticks on ridiculously designed plastic box.

[Larry Dudeck]

Just how does one 'launch' an e-power CL plane? I've seen the gassers do a normal take off run on LG.

What kind of duration do you get with these?

What kind of planes do you fly as CL?

Just curious...

[Looooeeee!]

All right I'm gonna bite

I've been toying with the idea of C/L powered by electric for a coulpe of months now, and I guess I'm in the same boat as Bare.

Is this possible with the weights involved?
I mean I made a Sig Akromaster two years ago and powered it with an ancient Fox .15 "tin soldier" engine. The plane came out heavy at 30 ounces and I wasn't to impressed with the power of the fox on 52' lines, but then the engine was new and was being broke in on the fly.

I want enough power to fly on these length lines. I'm considering a 540 can motor with 7 1250 4/5 sc cells as I've got a couple of bb 540's with 25 turn winds and the packs already. But I want some semblence of power, but will I need gearing to do so? I'm figuring a 34" span, lightly built profile plane not unlike the CG shoestring.

The motors weigh 5 oz. and the packs weigh 10 oz. that is 15 before I consider covering and balsa, so I'm going to have to be careful
with my construction, right? 'cept light balsa is not locally available, everyone of the R/C guys here picks the stuff over.

My Fox .15 and fuel tank weighed all of 6 or 7 oz. on the Akromaster. I'd like to hear from someone that's done bigger planes on the cheap, as I'm just doing this on what little cash I'm budgeting for R/C.

I have to concur with the rest of you though the fun of C/L is the feel. By the way I picked up a pair of really old J. Robert's U-Reely's and they are great! I've always wanted one and now I have two. http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/biggrin.gif

P.S. Whoops I've posted to the wrong thread.

Looee

[This message has been edited by Looooeeee! (edited 05-08-2001).]

[philc]

A few years ago I tried the SR Batteries Max 7 motor on a cl plane. Running direct drive it pulled about 30 amps on an 8/5 APC. The combo was enough that you could do a couple loops and figure eights early in the flight and then could only fly level for another minute or so. Total duration was about 2 min.

I'd strongly recommend using a gear reducer(2.5 or 3 to 1) 10 or more cells and a prop in the 11/8-13/6 range. This will keep the amps down in the 20 range, greatly reduce current losses, and should give a plane that can do some reasonable maneuvers for at least 3 min.

[Dereck]

The attraction of CL? I dunno, apart from that it was the first form of modelling I got to actually work (more or less http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/wink.gif)

While my stock of RC glow motors has faded away, there's still an OS35FPS and a Fox 35 in that lonely engine box. If I could reasonably get to a ukey group, the Fox would be in a Nobler real quick.

"Bare" abouts hits it spot on, I reckon.

Not sure about how feasible ECL is beyond the ultimate in small space park flying. Claus Maikis, who is a pretty good stunt flier in Europe, tinkered for years trying to extract something like competition CL aerobatics from an electric. While he could get a short flight with reasonable round maneuvres, the weight and lower power kept him out of "square" maneuvres.

Have never really analysed model airplane flying, I just go out and enjoy it!

We had our club's first meeting at a new venue - a local community centre. Right next door to the room we used is one that would support light indoor RC - or a small circle ukie in a flat pattern! This could be it.

Regards

Dereck

[steve lewin]

What we really need to get ECL going is for someone to write about it in some well-known magazine. Then all the lonely experimenters would get together and away we'd go.

Now who could we get to do a thing like that ? Do you know anyone who can write Dereck http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/smile.gif ?

"Just askin'", as the subject says.

Steve

[Dereck]

Hi Steve
Anyone who sends me anything about ECL is guaranteed column space!

Over ...

Dereck

[steve lewin]

Don't you just hate it when someone calls your bluff ?

O.K. if I ever get mine flying a picture and a few words will wend your way. Any other volunteers to write one of Dereck's columns for him http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/smile.gif ?

Steve

[Larry Dudeck]

Just askin..., again

So how do you CL fliers launch your planes???

[jrb]

I think this is an area that would make ECL really great; normally it take two!

The 2nd person hold and releases the running plane; though lots of ideas have been developed to hold and release a running plane for flying unassisted.

If we could get a simple and fully funtional ESC, start, fly, land when you want -- would be great!

[Looooeeee!]

Hi

I probably will not have it done soon, but I will give ECL a try with the power package I've described. At 3:1 gearing my motors seem punchy enough on 7 cells, but god the structure is going to be light. I'm also considering a cam-over shut-off instead of an electronic shut off. Has anyone experimented with an articulated bellcrank pivot that is spring loaded to latch at either ends of it's travel with a micro switch activated at one end? As the batteries start to sag you give a hard, sharp pull on the handle, the yank over-comes the spring pressure through the planes own inertia, switching the battery pack off. I think the Russians were using something like it for fuel shut-off at a Nat's a couple of years back. To activate it after charging you could use a single cable, through the outboard wing, to pull the cam-over "on". It would have to have some differential in its end points so the on position would require a really sharp tug to shut off the pack, more than what would be encountered in flight.


Since I fly off grass with my glow planes, my significant other helps with the launching. But as Dereck added below, it's not her idea of fun. I used to use a stooge launcher, (a small square of plywood with a notched piece of 2x4 nailed to it, with a hole and pin the same as Dereck described.) Since I used to fly off asphalt I'd just nail the plywood plate to the tarmack with a masonry nail about 3" long. The pin had a length of string attached that was the same length as the lines, the end of which was left next to the control handle in the center of the circle. Had my old Yak 9 launch itself with the plate still attached to the tailskid, for an exciting twenty laps on the ground, with this set up, so use a good size fastener or a heavy weight.

Just some thoughts, I'm really liking the idea though, as I'm flying at a school parking lot and it would be quiet.

Best's

Looee

[This message has been edited by Looooeeee! (edited 05-17-2001).]

[Dereck]

CL take - offs. Wives/G'friends/SO's should be much more amenable to holding a model and letting go when it's quiet and doesn't spray oil everywhere behind it.

If lacking one of the above, you bend a loop in the tailskid, and use a fork on a well anchored wooden plate. A wire pin goes through the fork and tailskid loop to restrain the model, the pin is pulled out by a long string with the pilot on the other end.

Good point - e-fliers have this heavy thing called a "field battery", great for anchoring the restraint plate to.

Bad point - forget to step back a little after release and sooner or later, you find some dumbo left a big old battery right on the landing path http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/wink.gif

Handlaunching - that's best done by a friend who understands about such things http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/wink.gif

Steve - I try to avoid writing too much of my column, that eats into my building time and leads to bias! Anyway, between writing a column and running a two day funfly, how much time do you think I have to mess around building toy aircraft? http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/wink.gif

Regards

Dereck

[Tapio]

One neat trick for self-launching ukies was presented in Aeromodeller (RIP) some years ago: set up a short pole in the ground half lenght of the control lines from you. The pole should have some horizontal guides on the top to keep the lines in place. Draw the lines around the pole, keeping the handle in one hand and the model in the other, so that the lines are tout. Launch the model so that it flies half a circle around the pole in reverse direction, at which stage the lines are unwrapped from the pole and normal flying in the circle starts...

Have not tried that myself, by the idea sounds neat, If the pole guides do not restrain the movement of the lines, the model can be steered even when flying the initial half circle.


[This message has been edited by Tapio (edited 05-18-2001).]

[MartinL]

Is it possible to fly a sp400 CL with a tether setup to a 12v truck or car battery??
We have a very noisy lot fly CL, I thought I might rig a sp400 with a tether to show them it can be done. Batteries pack onboard will be too heavy to be feasible.

[steve lewin]

Originally posted by MartinL:
Is it possible to fly a sp400 CL with a tether setup to a 12v truck or car battery??


If you look at some of the older threads e.g. http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/Forum14/HTML/000024.html you'll find lots of debate about this. The general view was that it's not possible due to the power losses in the lines. OTOH several people are successfully flying S400 planes with onboard batteries.

Steve

[realglow]

Originally posted by MartinL:
[B]Is it possible to fly a sp400 CL with a tether setup to a 12v truck or car battery??
{--- text deleted ---} [B]

MartinL, Check out this page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~rtpelectrix/

James (aka RealGlow)

[Bare]

Larry .. asked : how do youn launch a CL model?.. well every model I've ever flown more than once! is hand launched the helper simply opens his hans and the model accelerates away.. on a halfway decent Combat model that usually means instant vertical.. that cleary explains why electric CL is a long long way off.

[realglow]

Originally posted by Bare:
Larry .. asked : how do youn launch a CL model?.. well every model I've ever flown more than once! is hand launched the helper simply opens his hans and the model accelerates away.. on a halfway decent Combat model that usually means instant vertical.. that cleary explains why electric CL is a long long way off.

Bare:
Let's walk before we run. To many of us, a good flying model with some aerobatic capability is a great start at e-CL. I, for one, am not interested in a combat model capability, at least not yet! I think we have already demonstrated that electric CL is feasible, now let's try to improve the performance.

I flew IC stunt in the 50s. But electric is a whole new field that really is intriguing. Remember, we are on the leading edge of what later performance will be, if we work together to get there.

All in Fun .... James (aka RealGlow)

BTW: That 'RealGlow' is short for 'Real Radios Glow in the Dark'; I also collect antique tube radios. But I still love the transistor ones, too.

[robertc]

Loooee , looking over your equipment why not try your 25 turn motor. Add a 2.5:1 gearbox and a 10 x 6 prop and add cells until you get around 20 amps current draw.
If you dont have a charger for more than 7 cells it is not really a problem! I flew up to 14 cell models for years before I bought my first inverter charger. I just charged up 2 packs, e.g. for my 10 cell models I had 'add on' 3 cell packs or used two of my 5 cell packs from my AP29 powered planes. For 12 cells I used two off six cell packs and so on. I had no problems , I would trickle charge the packs from time to time just as I do now. I first charge the pack then place on trickle at the C/10 rate for a couple of hours to ensure all the cells are full to capacity. Some I know still use this method and just have two chargers.
regards
bob