Been out for a while - need some advice

[jaizon]

I've been out of sailplanes for a while (15 years) and man have things changed. Not unexpected at all, but the costs! I used to do some contest flying and that is what I'm looking to get back into (TD and maybe F3J). I've done some homework and there seem to be dozens of full house models available. I have a several old planes still in storage but want the latest and greatest (of course). Supra, Pike and others are often mentioned among others. I used to fly an Airtronics Vision (which I still have, LOL) but will go for a new radio as well. JR9303 gets a thumbs up, it seems, and for those who can afford it the 12x. And I do like 2.4, which is what I been flying in helis for the last year.

What I'm looking for are some recommendations regarding both the plane and the radio. Money is not really the issue here, getting the best plane I can is. I fly well enough but can't see spending the extra grand on the 12x, though I do like bells and whistles.

If you've got a minute and can weigh in it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Preston

[Fly2High]

I am not involved in TD and F3J but I think most will say that there is alot of populatity for the Supra and Pike Perfect sailplanes.

As for radios, I own a 9303 (72MHz version) and love how easy it is to program, trim and use. I second that as a candidate for use. I am sure the 12X is only better but having no hands on experience cannot back that statement up other than to say that Jr and all manufacturers have made great strides to improve programming through the years.

Frank

[petefly58]

Preston,

I have an Airtronics Vision radio and fly both TD and DLG with it. Works just fine......only drawback is that it only stores settings for 8 models. Advantage is that it is paid for ! BTW I fly my Supra with it and it works great. Supra is a very stable and great flying model. It really tells you when you hit lift.

Pete

[jtlsf5]

The equipment you have is sufficient to get going again and sharpen your old flying skills. The Vision is still a very capable radio, though not state of the art.

My recommendation is to hook up with an active soaring group, get yourself known and borrow some stick time on the various models that the members will have. Best way to get a feel for how the modern moldies fly. They all perform very well when set up properly, and the differences are fairly minor to most high end fliers. Much of the perceived differences are aesthetic, as you will tend to like and fly what appeals to you. For reference I fly two Supras, have had Pike Superiors, and have flown (other's) Perfects, Sharons, etc., etc. etc.

For radios I was Airtronics for 20 years. Still have one Stylus but finally made the move to a 9303 last summer. Like it so much I have all my contest planes on it. Also made the jump to a 12X MV (the module version) so I could go 2.4 or 72 at will. Nice radio that really appeals to my sense of "very high end" and very functional. You aren't giving up much if you go to a 9303, it is a world class radio and will teach you what current state of the art JR equipment is capable of. If/when you need/want more, the 12X is waiting.

Bottom line, start flying now. Upgrade to a 9303 and spend some time researching in real time the planes that appeal to you, then make the move and buy one. Don't fall victim to the mistaken concept that older technology stops working just because there is newer stuff available.

JT

[glidermang]

jaizon:

Start flying now, and go enter a contest. You might be very surprised!

If you do upgrade your radio, I highly recommend 2.4, although I do not have one, yet. I use a multiplex Evo-9 and love it, even though I employ about 20% of its capability (mostly DLG, but a couple of full-house and other gliders).

Yours, Greg

[gavoss]

Jim is right. The Vision is a great radio and will do pretty much what ever you need to do. Yes the 9303 is the current favorite and like Jim I'm moving up to the 12x. I will still have a 9303 on hand but I needed the extra channels for scale.

There are a multitude of really nice planes out there and you've mentioned several of them. The Espada series of planes are very nice and nobody has better fit and finish than Jaro Mueller. I have one for sale if you are interested. Contact me direct at gavoss@swbell.net

One thing we are slowly finding out is what planes have fuses that will allow 2.4 to work properly. If there is too much carbon in the fuse, some people have experience black and brown out's. Brown outs being a temporary loss in control vs. black as a total loss of control. There is nothing wrong with the currently available frequencies and the more people go to 2.4, the more it frees up the 'channel' radios. If you have a number of PCM receivers then I say make good use of them. I have too many receiver just to walk away from them because 2.4 is available. I will slowly work my way there, but it won't be anytime soon.

Skip Miller, Kennedy Composite, F3X and Soaring USA are all great places to get new planes. Use your normal flying conditions to determine what aircraft will be the best for you. Here in the midwest, with an average wind velocity of 13, a really light Bubble Dancer isn't the plane to have 90% of the time. We need planes that penetrate. Your area is probably different than mine as far as wind conditions go. I'd recommend going to a local contest and see what everyone else is flying, ask questions and see what they like and dislike about the design they own.

Hopefully that helped. gv

[John Cole]

Don't fall victim to the mistaken concept that older technology stops working just because there is newer stuff available.

JT[/QUOTE]

Well said Jim.

John

[jaizon]

Thanks, guys. Those are helpful suggestions.

Last night I went and looked through the old fleet and found four receivers for the Vision. I will keep the Duck (circa 1990 and my favorite 2m ever) and the Legend (Airtronics, as I remember) in tact. They are in beater condition, but that's fine. All they and the Vision need to go flying are new batteries. That shouldn't be too hard. I've also got a Falcon 880 cut to 100" and a Falcon 600 (for those old enough to remember), but will pull the receivers out of them.

RES wasn't around when I was flying and the AVA is calling to me as well. That will be the third module. However, I just wouldn't feel comfortable putting that radio with whatever I decide to get for the high end unlimited.

Not many places to fly gliders up here in New Hampshire. Real estate development has taken it's toll in the last decade. However, there are some guys that fly at the dump in Hudson, N.H.(1 hour), and a crew down in Sudbury, Mass. (2 hours) I will look them up, but if any of you guys are on this board I would appreciate a shout.

So I think the new radio can certainly wait until the new plane is chosen.. but I do need a winter project.

Preston

[jtlsf5]

Thanks, guys. Those are helpful suggestions.

Last night I went and looked through the old fleet and found four receivers for the Vision. I will keep the Duck (circa 1990 and my favorite 2m ever) and the Legend (Airtronics, as I remember) in tact. They are in beater condition, but that's fine. All they and the Vision need to go flying are new batteries. That shouldn't be too hard. I've also got a Falcon 880 cut to 100" and a Falcon 600 (for those old enough to remember), but will pull the receivers out of them.

RES wasn't around when I was flying and the AVA is calling to me as well. That will be the third module. However, I just wouldn't feel comfortable putting that radio with whatever I decide to get for the high end unlimited.

Not many places to fly gliders up here in New Hampshire. Real estate development has taken it's toll in the last decade. However, there are some guys that fly at the dump in Hudson, N.H.(1 hour), and a crew down in Sudbury, Mass. (2 hours) I will look them up, but if any of you guys are on this board I would appreciate a shout.

So I think the new radio can certainly wait until the new plane is chosen.. but I do need a winter project.

Preston

You've got a great fleet of classic competition ships, I've owned/flown all you mention. I still have the Falcon 800 I won the Nats with in 1990, and a 2M triple taper Duck. Any of the planes you mention are still competitive in the right hands.

BTW, I belong to a very active club that is 45 miles away, and I head over when I can. I also use a local community college field, launching with a zip start, a short, high power histart that gets me to 75-150' depending on the wind. Great for practice flying and landing practice. When you can regularly hook up and get out off a short launch like this, winch height is like cheating.

JT

[lincoln]

I'm one of those guys. I don't know if we'll be flying Saturday at Davis, but usually if the weather is good we're there on Sunday mornings.

I don't know where you are in NH, but if you are near Brattleboro, Vermont, check out bafhome.org. Bob Rondeau is a member of that club and often flies gliders. Plus he runs a contest in the fall. I even bet you remember him, unless you moved in the last fifteen years.

I'm surprised you like the Legend. I seem to recall they were Legendarily tail heavy. But if you like it, that's the way to go. When I wanted to get back into contest flying recently, I picked up a used Mantis fairly cheaply after poking around on the web for a while. The 7037 Mantis is easy to fly and really easy to land. I've only been to 5 contests with it, but I got a 4th in an ESL contest and a 3rd in the one in Brattleboro. (The competition was much tougher than in former years.) I used my old Vision, though I now have a JR I may have to learn. There's an Aegea Mantis which is much more like the Supra. If your 880 hadn't been cut down, I'd have recommended that. Only flew one for a couple of minutes, but was very nice. Maybe not as fast as what we have today.

Ava is wonderful but not terribly fast. But catching thermals with it feels like cheating.

It's still possible, at least as of a couple of years ago, or was it only one, to beat an Ava with old technology, even a Gnome 2M! (Especially on a windy day.) Ditto for Bubble Dancer and Oly 2! And on a good day you can be competitive with a Sovereign against unlimiteds, if you don't get too upset during the first flight about what happened to the wiring on your Mantis. As of yet, no high tech ship can do better than 0 seconds off and 100 points, which even a Gentle Lady can do on many days.

If you're near Wolfeboro, there's a new athletic field, but I don't know how they feel about gliders. I could probably find out who you should talk to about that if you wanted to go the formal route.

[Mark Miller]

Preston,

Check out the Southern New Hampshire RC Club. I know Dave Beach is a member and is very active with sailplanes plus is a great guy.

http://www.snhrcc.org

I agree with the rest. Don't worry about the equipment you have. Just get out and fly. The equipment will take care of itself in time.

Mark Miller

[gavoss]

Most of the non-res planes sold today only need radio installation so don't look to them for a winter project. If you were really slow, it would only take a week of evenings to install the radio.

For RES the AVA and Danny are the one's I personally see most. I personally have an AVA and they are really great planes on calm days. Choose which one that you like the looks of because in this particular market the planes are basically equal.

The only thing you will give up on flying the Falcon is a few feet on launch. The new molded models can pretty much take any winch/tow load we can give them, but I doubt a stock Falcon 100 could stand an F3J 2-man tow. Still, they are great airplanes.

Please heed Jim comments. He's one of the most knowledgeable people around, an excellent builder/flyer and all around nice guy. He's won and placed hig flying Falcons, Windsongs and virtually every other "ship of the day" even competing against planes that can out launch him by 100'. Knowing your plane and how it reacts to lift is the most important thing. I'd dust off the Falcon and have at it.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do. gv

[jaizon]

As per the suggestions in this thread I dusted off the Falcon 800. Here are two photos I thought you might enjoy. One from 1992 and the other from today. A few wrinkles here and there, slight warp in the TE, but overall not bad and easy enough to fix. Next the Legend and the Duck and maybe the Falcon 600. All in flying order when the new batteries arrive.

[gavoss]

That looks perfectly healthy to me. We were blessed one year to have Troy Lawicki (sp?) come to Tulsa and helped everyone who owned a Duck, which seemed like 1/2 of the Tulsa club at the time, trim them out and get the most performance out of them. I didn't own a Duck but he was extremely helpful to anyone that asked. Also, the Duck series is inherantly strong due to the planform and spar design so they can still take a hard launch, which is something the newer planes do in spades.

Then again, JT finished 3rd at Visalia a few years ago flying a Lovesong, proving it really IS the pilot.

I have kind of a funny story about the only Legend built in the OKC area (that I know of anyway.) We had a father and son join the club. The son was in his 40's so you can figure about how old his dad was. Both were/are great people, but the father wasn't the best builder in the world and he'd call me from time to time to come over and help him sort out a problem with his planes. He called me one evening and wanted me to look at his plane and find out why he was going to have to add nearly 1 1/2lbs to the nose to get the plane to balance...and it wasn't covered yet! Come to find out the tail balsa is what I refer to as "Stud Grade", meaning you could build a house with the stuff. I'd never seen balsa so hard in all my life. I recommended he rebuild it with wood from the LHS but he didn't want to. He ended up with a plane that weighed just short of 100 ounces when most others were finished in the mid-high 70's. It still flew well in our Oklahoma winds though, but on calm days it suffered in the landing zone. Funny, that's exactly what Dave Thornberg said would happen.

Let's see the Duck, Legend and 600 when you get them done. gv

[lincoln]

What is the phobia people have about using a scale when building? I'm sure they wouldn't want to fly in a full scale plane where the materials were of unknown density. There's another phobia about sandpaper and fuselages, I think.