Windsong/Lovesong Cores anyone?

[gavoss]

I’m considering cutting or having cut some Windsong/Lovesong cores. They will be stock #1 EPS. I haven’t decided if I’ll have all the cutouts done or let the customer do that. It depends on the cost and time it will take. It will be a few weeks before I decide whether to go through with this so there is no hurry on answering, but do get with me as quickly as possible. I should have an estimate tomorrow.

Shawn Lenci has fuses w/canopies and plans.

gv

[Curare]

Why windsong wings, and not lovesong wings?

[gavoss]

Uh, the cores are the same. Or did I miss something? :)

[jtlsf5]

Cores would be the same. Cutouts for spar would be a little different, but not much. If George offers basic cores without cutouts, there is no difference.
JT

[gavoss]

I haven't decided on the cutouts yet. It depends on the cost/time factor. I guess I should have titled it Lovesong wings as I doubt anyone would use the Windsong spar system these days. Eric Jackson built my Lovesong and I know it would take a pretty strong launch. I didn't try to destroy them on launch mind you. Besides, they don't zoom like a typical moldie will, though you will gain enough height to make zooming worth while.

I remember seeing Tom Brightbill on an old Dodgson video (which I still have somewhere around here) trying to touch wingtips on launch. The wing tips looked like they were a good 18" displaced from the static position. You hear Bob in the background telling you: "you don't need to push it this hard."

Speaking of hard...wing flex is greatly reduced by using epoxy and vacuum bagging the skins onto the wing. With the transfer tape method, the skin is never really bonded to the core. The skins are bonded to the tape and the tape is bonded to the foam. The transfer tape provides a certain amount of give to the wing. Even if you didn't use the Lovesong spar system, a set of wings with the skins epoxied to the foam will be stiffer than a wing skinned with transfer tape.

I've heard some people have tried Gorilla glue for sheeting. I haven't tried it. I'll probably make up some test panels and see how the weight/strength vary from epoxy.

One other thing, Jim can correct me if I stick my foot in my mouth, but the Camano and Pixy all share the same inner foam section, so if you want one of those cores, these will work.

I have Pixy fuse I got from Shawn a while back and I plan on making a Pixy with servos in the wings. Maybe I'll pull the camera out and take a few photos and post them for nostalgia sake. Eric did an AWESOME job on my Lovesong and the covering is still stuck to the wood after more than 2 decades! That's why I asked Jim for his method of covering.

[jtlsf5]

One other thing, Jim can correct me if I stick my foot in my mouth, but the Camano and Pixy all share the same inner foam section, so if you want one of those cores, these will work.


George, you are correct. The same base panel was used for all three planes. Song got an extension, Camano as is, Pixy got cut down. The router templates used to cut out spar slots was different for the various planes.

JT

[lincoln]

What happens if you use transfer tape but you bag the sheeting down? I've read the instructions on vhb tape, and they recommend more pressure than the foam could withstand, so it makes sense to use as much as you can without messing up the cores. I think the number might have been something like 15psi, which white foam can't take.

[Curare]

Acutally the cores aren't the same, the windsong used an E205 section (from memory)

and the Lovesong is a SD7037.

which airfoil are you using?

[D_Ryan]

Curare;

The Windsong, Lovesong, and then the Windsong Classic and Silver Editions all used the same E-215 airfoil.

The Anthem had a Windsong/Lovesong planform and used a SD-7037, as did the Saber (120" span).

r/
Dave Stack

[jtlsf5]

Curare;

The Windsong, Lovesong, and then the Windsong Classic and Silver Editions all used the same E-215 airfoil.

The Anthem had a Windsong/Lovesong planform and used a SD-7037, as did the Saber (120" span).

r/
Dave Stack


Well, you're getting closer. The original Camano 111 was offered with an E-193. This was a wood winged, glass fuse plane.

The 111 evolved to the standard class, 100" Camano 100. First with the E-193 in foam core, then a E-205 version appeared for a short time, along with an F3B version (don't recall the foil) with 1/64" ply supplied for the wing skins. These versions of the Camano 100 spawned the K-Minnow, a 2M variant with the same E-193 foil.

In 1980 the Windsong came along which was Dodgson's first use of the E-214. The Camano 100 was switched to the E-214 to take advantage of the great performance and consistency for manufacturing ease (same main panel). When the Pixy was designed, it too took advantage of the Camano 100 foil and fuse. The Pixy looked like a cut down Camano 100 for good reason, same wing panels trimmed to 2M, same fuse, smaller stabs to match the smaller wing area.

The Anthem had the SD-7037. It was to be an updated Song with obechi skins (I'm pretty sure on both), but never matched the performance of the original Songs with 214. Sabre was a unique design based on the SD-7037.

Only variations were custom builts. I did a couple of S-3021 planes, a Windsong and a hybrid 3M ship. Not sure what other tinkerers did.

JT

[D_Ryan]

JT;

Thanks for the rudder correct. Suppose I should dust off my Lovesong, accompanying plans and build manual, finish it up, fly it, and better ingrain the airfoil into my memory.

Embarrassed,
Dave

[Mr. Kite]

To add to JT some of the Camano's came with a E-205 for a very short time ...Thanks JT for putting in all the good infor on the Dodgson kits....

[jtlsf5]

JT;

Thanks for the rudder correct. Suppose I should dust off my Lovesong, accompanying plans and build manual, finish it up, fly it, and better ingrain the airfoil into my memory.

Embarrassed,
Dave


Dave,
More important to finish and fly the plane than to sweat the details of history. Memories can be fuzzy, but the plane is real. Enjoy it.

I have built probably 100+ Dodgson planes since discovering them in 1980. You could say that I was a bit fanatical about them from 1980 until 1989 when the Falcon 880 and computer radios came along.

There hasn't been a stretch of more than 3 or 4 years since that I didn't have one in the hanger. Currently a Lovesong, the immediate precursor to the Lovesong build I did in this forum for Rob Glover. Gotta love the old designs. I still have a Lovesong kit sitting in the rafters.

JT

[gavoss]

Here is the deal guys, I have to have at least 5 people order cores to make this worthhwhile to all of us. I have a guy that uses a CNC cutter and he cut all the cores I use when I ran Soaring Specialties and sold kits. He's very good and the price is basically what everyone else sells CNC cut cores for, unless we have 5 or more of the same cores cut at the same time. Mainly because it saves setup time

So, I need someone other than Kirk and myself to order cores. gv

Lincoln: Please read post 5 again. Vacuum bagging the skins with transfer tape will be better than just weighting them down as there is no way we can apply 3lbs per square inch by putting books, lead or what have you on the cores. A mechanical press could be used but few people do that.

Still, the point is that the tape is still tape and has some 'give' to it. It doesn't change properties like epoxy does going from a liquid to a plastic solid. Bagging the skins while using the tape is much better than using weight alone, but having the adhesive form a covalent bond with the wood and foam is what makes the wing stiff, along with the spar of course.

[MichaUT]

Wouldnt it be easier to just order from Shawn Lenchi (sp) He has the factory templates and all. Last I Heard he had fuses also.

[gavoss]

Shawn doesn't sell cores, just the fuses and plans. That's the only reason I don't get them from him.

Shawn, how about a short kit with fuses and cores? gv

[gavoss]

OK, the price is in. After checking several sources and getting quotes on sets of 1, 5 and sets of 10 cores, things look like this: Several people can only cut 32" length so the max of 2 panels is 64" instead of the 65" needed. That isn't a big deal IMHO. One guy can cut a 48" panel and then a 17" panel just like Dodgsons kit used to supply. I had prices range from $100 a set, down to the $42 a set which is the best price if we order 10 sets. 5 sets will run us $45 a set. Spar slot top and bottom is included. Shipping isn't included.

What does everyone think about getting a 1/8x1/2" slot cut for the spar? That's 1/8" wider than stock. This way the wing will be stronger even if the builder doesn't add carbon to it. Input please?

[D_Ryan]

George;

The way you describe the 1/2"x1/8" spar slot makes it sound like a channel top and bottom.

It's been ~10 years since I built my Lovesong wings, but I seem to recall it being cut clean through from the top to the bottom of the core, and the spar assembly fit between the front and back halves of the foam core, at least part of the way out from the root.

I do recall having to sand a spar slot into the wing top and bottom (still have the tool I fabricated to sand those slots), is that the work you are referring to having pre-fabbed?

regards,
Dave

[gavoss]

You are correct. The inner panel has the spar cut going completly through the core. However, with the slot for the top cap is cut, it will be easy for the modeler to complete the cut with a knife or saw. gv

[PiK20b]

I vote for a 3/8" slot. If anyone wants 1/2", they could easily make the 3/8" slot wider. A lighter wing could be built with the 3/8" slot and if you need more strength, add some carbon or enlarge it to 1/2". Maybe we could get the 17" outboard sections without spar slots to keep the tips light. If we ran the carbon all the way to the tip, it should still be plenty strong. Also if we could get the slot for the servo wires cut into the 48" inboard pannels, it would be nice.

[Les Horvath]

OK, the price is in. After checking several sources and getting quotes on sets of 1, 5 and sets of 10 cores, things look like this: Several people can only cut 32" length so the max of 2 panels is 64" instead of the 65" needed. That isn't a big deal IMHO. One guy can cut a 48" panel and then a 17" panel just like Dodgsons kit used to supply. I had prices range from $100 a set, down to the $42 a set which is the best price if we order 10 sets. 5 sets will run us $45 a set. Spar slot top and bottom is included. Shipping isn't included.

What does everyone think about getting a 1/8x1/2" slot cut for the spar? That's 1/8" wider than stock. This way the wing will be stronger even if the builder doesn't add carbon to it. Input please?
Give me a call at 570-828-7396
Les