New Mini DS **Plans and Specs** **NEW VIDEO UPLOADED**

[Aerogance]

Links to Plans and Specs for Scratch Builders:

Parts List (for balsa fuse/sheeted wing) (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12518011&postcount=44)
Battery Cells (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12518077&postcount=45)
Vertical Stabilizer Plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12518320&postcount=46)
Horizontal Stabilizer Plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12519021&postcount=48)
Wing Plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12519026&postcount=49)
Wing Plan Dimensioned (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12531042&postcount=73)
Fuselage Template (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12519341&postcount=53) | how-to (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12525672&postcount=67)
Fuselage Plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12519493&postcount=54) | build sequence 1 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12540438&postcount=93) | build sequence 2 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12542354&postcount=95) | build sequence 3 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12542910&postcount=96) | build sequence 4 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12552381&postcount=97) | build sequence 5 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12559908&postcount=104)
Tail Fillets (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12552381&postcount=97)
Wing Servo Location Plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12519544&postcount=55)
Formers / Bulkheads Sizes (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12522942&postcount=60)
Elevator Pushrod (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12534537&postcount=85)
Tips, Tricks and Finishing Touches (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12533536&postcount=79)
Starting CG, Throws, Expo/Diff (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12560148&postcount=107)
Light-Wind CG Range (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12710180&postcount=148)
Ballast Information (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12710265&postcount=149)
Heavy-Ballast CG Range (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12830368&postcount=156)



***UPDATED 6/14/2009***

So I decided to update my trusty old Mini 1 which has served me well for almost 20 years. I am sticking with the old-school spirit of the original kit, with some critical modifications to improve its DS performance.

FUSELAGE: I changed the fuselage profile to be sleeker with less wing incidence. The fuselage is built-up like the original Mini 1 kit but is wrapped in a layer of light glass. The length is over 2" longer to allow less nose weight to be used. The elevator servo is mounted behind the rear wing hold down.

WING: The wing planform has minor changes: the wingspan is reduced to 28" and the AR is reduced. The airfoil is changed to the RG14 and thinned to 7.5%. The length of the ailerons is shorter but they are now 20% of chord and tapered with the wing. The wing has no spars or internal ballast. The wing core is EPP (what I had on hand at the time) and is sheeted with 1/64" plywood with a balsa LE and Tips.

H-STAB: The h-stab is thicker and more foiled. The elevator is is smaller chordwise to improve resolution at high speed.

V-STAB: The v-stab is much taller and wider with a different outline than the Mini 1 to improve yaw stability through the shear. It also much thicker with more foiling.

RADIO: I am using a custom 4-cell square NiMH 650mah pack at 4.8v. The plane will be flown on 2.4ghz to elimate the mile of antenna hanging out the back. The reciever is the Spektrum 6100e. Elevator servo is the E-Flite S75 sub micro servo. I started with 2 E-Flite S-75 servos for the ailerons but they flutter around 135mph due to all the internal slop so I switched to the Hitec HS-65HB "Mighty Feather" servos that have basically zero slop and hopefully no speed limit.

FINISH: The fuselage and custom servo covers are finished in Neon Red-Orange paint. The tail feathers and wing are covered with Monokote. The surfaces are hinged with the same packing tape I use to hinge my JW60.

COLOR SCHEME: The entire plane is neon red-orange. Two neon yellow stripes under the wing give visual orientation to this little bird.

WEIGHT: The plane came in at 12.5oz unballasted. With ballast she weighed in at 25.6oz and flew to 137mph but fluttered. With the new servos, I plan to fly her at 28oz and should easily hit the 150mph-175mph zone or higher.

*******K & A MODELS "MINI 1" SPECS (http://www.kamodels.com/sprtslope.htm)*******
Wing Span - 28.5"
Length - 23"
Wing Area - 164 sq.in.
Wing loading - 9-10 oz./ sq. ft.
Ready weight - 10.5 - 11 oz.
Airfoil-Eppler 374 Mod
Current Airframe Record: 118mph

Comments: The latest Mini 1 from K&A Models looks like a fantastic value: prefinished moulded parts, 1-hour build time and light weight for lively frontside action. For the money and time investment, it is a great deal and an inexpensive way to add a small plane to your quiver. Please post any first-hand flight reports of the new kit from K&A.

********MINI DS SPECS********
Wingspan: 28"
Length: 26"
Wing Area: 144 sq.in.
Wing Loading: 12.5 -32 oz./ sq. ft.
Ready Weight: 12.5 oz. unballasted / 32 oz. fully ballasted
Airfoil: RG14 @ 7.5%
Minimum Wind: 6mph
Current Airframe Record: 167mph
Flutter speed with E-Flite S75 servos and "normal" linkages: ~135mph
Flutter speed with Hitec HS-65HB servos and MTS linkages: Not Known

Comments: The Mini DS is an all new plane designed specifically for dynamic soaring and high speed. While it is a completely different plane from the Mini 1, it is designed to capture the old-school charm of the original Mini 1. The Mini DS is not designed or sold by K&A Models. It is not intended as a frontside plane. The Mini DS flies best when loaded heavy in good wind. Plans will be available as a free pdf download for scratch builders from this thread. It is not a beginner airplane. A seasoned pilot with some DS skill will find it to be a handful at first. A skilled DS pilot will have no problem flying the ship. The Mini DS, as a dynamic soaring training aid, will help pilots hone their reflexes and improve their circuits.

******MINI DS "PRO" SPECS*******
Wingspan: 30"
Length: 27"
Wing Area: 144 sq.in.
Wing Loading: 32oz.
Ready Weight: 32oz.
Airfoil: NACA 64a210

Comments: I am making moulds for an "unlimited" Mini DS. There will be changes to the standard Mini DS profiles to exploit the composite construction. Stay tuned.

******MINI DS "HORBANGER" SPECS*******
Wingspan: 12"
Length: TBD
Wing Area: TBD
Wing Loading: TBD
Ready Weight: TBD
Airfoil: TBD

Comments: Today's micro-miniature onboard radio systems allow for unheard-of small planes. I am adapting a plane I designed/built/flew in the '80s for these systems and with the single purpose of DS'ing. How small is too small?

[bjaffee]

This is Aaron, right? I thought that wing looked familiar! Look forward to seeing the redesigned version at Kanan.

Brett

[threcixty]

Hope you have some grass to land on... Balsa brings new meaning to the name "crunchie". Looks pretty cool though!

[Tailslide UK]

Aerogance,
Sorry for the threadjack, but your picture of the Mini may help to solve a mystery for me.

About 10 years ago, I ordered a P-38 PSS from K&A models. There where a number of delays in getting the plane to me. I crated it up when it came and shipped it to the UK from Nebraska with the rest of my stuff (it arrived on the day the truck came to get the crates, I did not even open it). Last year, I finally opened up the P-38 and built it. To my surpriese, there was another model in the box with a note saying something like "sorry for the delay, we have been working on this and put one in for your trouble". I never knew what it was called or anything about it.

I put it together as a slope-on-a-rope bird. I bungee it from small places and do acros. It is also a good slope flyer. I do not know the pedigree of your mini, but it sounds like it is your own design. Looking at the pictures, is it possible that these are one and the same plane? Mine has a FG fuse, balsa over foam cores and sheet balsa tail feathers. There were no plans, instructions or drawings. All that was there were the cores, the fuse and a tracing for the tail group.

Again, sorry for the thread-jack. I have been wondering what this model is.

Cheers,
Paul

[daboz]

Aaron and John had the Mini1 going at Parker, great little flyer. Tailslide I hope you have a Mini1 I bet a few mouse clicks (http://www.rcspeeds.com/images/Mini1DSl.jpg) with my morning coffe that it is. Hope you don't mind me using your photo, :o :D

Anyone know more specs., weight, foil, maker... for the Mini1 (http://www.rcspeeds.com/aircraftdetails.aspx?AC=246)?

[Aerogance]

Tailslide,
Your plane is the Mini. It looks like yours came with a glass fuse and therefore is a later version. The airfoil on yours looks the same as does the size and shape of the tail group. Seeing your 2servo wing has convinced me to do the same. I will not be using a rudder. Very cool little plane. I discus launch mine to test new spots.

Brett,
Yes, that's the same wing you have seen at Kanan.

Chris,
All I remember is that the kit was from K&A models. K&A also made a stretched version called the Kamu.

Aaron

[Tailslide UK]

Thanks,
At least I know what to call it now. :o

I hope that they made a new mould if they put the FG version on the market. The fuse I got (I can't complain - it was free :D ) did not fit together well. The whole top and bottom of the plane is made from bondo. One side was actually smaller than the other, like one side of the mould shrunk more than the other after they pulled the halves.

I am headed over to the K&A site now to see what I can find on it.

Cheers,
Paul

[1000MPH]

I had a mini 1 back in the day. All these years I thought they were called "mini eye".
I never got mine to fly very well with that swept back wing and lack of dihedral. Good to see it again though.

[Aerogance]

Well,
The old Mini took one for the team today. It was involved in a mid-air with a JW during a DS furball. I found almost all of the pieces.... Fortunately, the new Mini is almost finished so I will postpone the repair work until the new one is done.

[dynamicviper]

do you know where i can get the plans for this puppy. I would like to build one! Looks awesome!

[Aerogance]

Cutting the wing core tonight, finally. I hope to have it ready for Weldon on Saturday. Gonna build heavy with a full-span steel spar and lots of ballast. Keeping true to the original design with the exception of the airfoil change and the slightly larger vertical stabilizer so its still a Mini.

[Aerogance]

do you know where i can get the plans for this puppy. I would like to build one! Looks awesome!

www.kamodels.com (http://www.kamodels.com/sprtslope.htm) may be a good place to start

[Aerogance]

Well,
Delay after delay but I am very close to getting this little bad boy in the air. Wing is sheeted and ready for ailerons to be cut/hinged and radio installed. Some pictures of it mocked up:

[Aerogance]

Some pics of the wing covered and servos installed. Ailerons are hinged and ready for control horns. I ran out of red covering so the wing is neon red and neon orange. She will need some nose lead to balance out and will be a few ounces heavier than the original. The thin RG-14 airfoil looks like a screamer.

[Aerogance]

Was hoping to have her finished for a maiden tomorrow (Sunday) but it looks like I am short a few bits for the linkages. I repainted the fuse neon red and recovered the tail to match the new wing color. Check her out!

[Aerogance]

I maidened the new Mini DS at Kanan today in rather gimped 12-15mph wind. She needed 1 ounce of nose weight and flew fantastic. The new Mini DS is substantially faster and much more stable than its predecessor. But with the new airfoil and camber she can stay up in less wind. What surprised me the most was how much better a DS plane the new mini is. Without ballast she effortlessly holds energy through the circuit. With a 3oz lead brick installed the plane flew even better and faster. The neon red with neon yellow bottom stripes is very easy to see.

[screamin' eagle]

I haven't heard anyone mention that site in a few years! I learned to DS there and there used to be a local crew including Alex Neigher and a few others...not a bad spot other than the heat and the hike.

[bjaffee]

...not a bad spot other than the heat and the hike.

It keeps the riff-raff away. :)

(jk)

[OZPAF]

Aero,

Your mini DS looks fun for a small slope, and I just happen to have one close.
just for kicks I had a look on Xfoil, using Profili at a couple of mods to the RG 14, which you used thinned to 7.5%.

All at the same thickness of 7.5%.
Benchmark 1.6% camber
Reduced camber - 1.3%
Increased camber - 1.7%.

The last one with the increased camber, could be great for hauling weight in DS without losing much at lower Cl's.

have fun

John

[OZPAF]

tried it again as pdf's.

John

[Aerogance]

Thanks John. I went with 7.5% because that was the minimum thickness that would fit a sub-micro servo where I wanted. High alpha suffers a bit as expected. I would go 8.5% on the next one for more flexibilty in servo placement.

[Aerogance]

Flew the Mini DS at Parker today in a very clean and steady 20mph west wind. I put 5 Opus slugs in the fuse for ballast and she flew incredibly clean laps in the slightly bumpy backside conditions. Despite being a small plane, she has very minor bad habits and is easy to fly in the groove. The new Mini DS is light years better than the old Mini 1. I hope to get her in a good 30mph+ day soon to get a better idea of how much ballast to use and to get some good radar readings.

The next step will be to make a few minor planform mods and bag a wing. I want to use better servos and build a heavy version for high winds. The plane flys clean enough that I believe it coud break 200mph with minimal revisions and a beefy build.

After the next prototype, if she performs as hoped, I will post plans in this thread. It is an easy plane to build from scratch and can be built for less than 30 bucks (not including radio of course).

Aaron

[Aerogance]

Wow! I need to post this flight report. The new MiniDS is turning out to be an outstanding little plane. I flew her today in energetic 15-25mph winds at my local slope. The ds zone is fairly small and turbulent but good otherwise. The MiniDS weighs 12.5oz unballasted and flies in as little as 6-8mph wind. But who wants to do that! I made a couple of ballast modules that fit inside the fuse and have noticed that plane loves the extra weight. But today I decided to throw in both ballast modules and some additional ballast that I had to load her up nice and good. She weighed in at 22.5oz with the extra ballast.

The extra 10oz of weight in this tiny plane transforms it from a fun little sloper to basically a mini Opus! The plane came alive with the extra weight and begged for more. I didn't have radar so I guesstimate the front side cruising speed to be around 50mph+, about triple its unballasted cruise. Okay, enough about the front side, stay awake and keep reading!

The DS performance improvement imparted by the heavy ballast was a revelation. The little plane felt like a big plane the way it was able to fly big open circuits. It blew through the shear and turbulence with fantastic ease. The sound of the plane cooking along was similar to a clean moldie. The mindboggling sky-high punch outs were a kick. She held energy like a big plane and had absolutely no bad habits. In fact, she ate up the turbulence and came back for seconds! The way she held speed and energy allowed for DS-ing anywhere in the zone, including way out behind the ridge. Perhaps the biggest grin I got was when the little plane got blown out of the circuit 2 laps in a row, but still had loads of energy and was able to get right back in the groove with speed. Without the ballast, she would have just stopped moving after the first blow-out and would have landed on the back.

The best part of all is that being such a small plane, you get invaluable high-speed DS experience but at normal speeds and at a normal slope. Flying this tiny plane at 100mph requires the skill and focus to fly an Opus at 250+. I feel that the Mini has helped me grasp the most important skills of DSing quickly. If you want to learn to fly fast DS but you don't have a big plane, this new MiniDS is a great option to develop your reactions. Small, built-up wood planes like this build quick and the materials do not cost very much. The original Mini was the plane I learned to DS on and this new Mini is light-years better. My goal now is to build a high-speed one with better servos and the appropriate geometry for high speed, keeping this current one for the light winds I built it for. I am currently using E-Flite S75 servos x3, and this may be the fastest RC model ever to use those. I have my eyes on the hitec or JR metal gear sub-micros for the next Mini (or the new JR wing servo if it will fit).

I have a few minor revisions to the design, then I will post plans in this thread for anyone who wants to slap one together. I am also in the process of making moulds for certain parts of the plane. This current Mini has wood sheeted wings. I am going to bag the next one with some heavy Volan remnants I have. I want my fast one to have an unballasted weight of 25oz, so the Volan will help alot. The plane is a blast to fly and I hope to get a few more people behind the wheel of this one before I pile it in!

Aaron

[OZPAF]

Aaron,

Great stuff - sounds like a real winner. I also like the idea of a small balsa/ply model.
The thin RG14 is obviously working better at the higher Re Nos - as shown by the increased energy to drag ratio from your observations. Nice when it happens with your own design.Congrats.

I'll have to add something similar to the project list.

John

[Antonsoarer]

Aaron, I can relate to your enthusiasm for this small model. The smallest model in my collection is a similar design and gets more air time than any other. The fact that it probably doesn't reach the same speeds as the larger designs has no impact on the fun factor, the opposite being true with the larger models often appearing slower.

It's only 39" span and is unbeatable in terms of bang for buck. :)

Been flying it now since 2005 and it's still going strong.

Details:
39” span
AUW 18oz
Wing loading 11 oz-sq-ft
Section GS24
Fuz PPA30 and carbon tube and balsa sides on the nose
Wing PPA30 and carbon tubes and PU I-beam
Tail feathers: Balsa and Basswood
Ailerons: PPA and obechi veneer
Glues used: PU and Hot melt
Covering: Bi-directional tape and Solartex with pvc tape on control surfaces.
Elevator control runs down carbon tube fuz longeron


Tony.

[-DoubleV-]

Now you know how I felt to get my minimako up to 149. For a 29" foamie to do that really felt like an accomplishment, and took alot more concentration than flying an opus @ 240. People seem to frown on the smaller planforms because of the desire for WR #s but they are absolutely a blast. Cant tell you the amount of times Ive heard 'I dig your ships but theyre too small for me'. Ive been flying minis for years now and love the workout they give your reflexes and mind. Makes me think about Mikey from the old Life cereal commercial- "try it, youll like it.....hey Mikey!" :)


I thought that I read in the slope forum about the minis and their creator one day, is that your design Aaron?

[Aerogance]

K & A Models has announced a 25th anniversary moulded Mini 1 kit on their website. Check her out www.kamodels.com (http://www.kamodels.com)

[Aerogance]

I flew the Mini DS at Weldon today in 25mph wind. With a ballasted weight of 25 oz, she clocked in at 137mph! She had more in her but alas, my light-wind build fluttered. The next Mini will have Mike-the-Snake linkages and no speed limit. But even my light wind Mini had command of the sky today and flew brilliantly.

[Jantar2A]

Pretty cool that they now have a molded version of the plane,too bad they kept the old e-374 airfoil,,I would have orderd one right away if it had a better foil.

I've had a ton of planes with the 374 and I guess I've just grown out of it.

Nick

[flyboyjimi]

Seeing your plane fly Saturday at Weldon to a 137 was very impressive!! The color made it a little easier to see and it seemed so solid for such a little plane. And thank you and Spencer for helping me maiden my MC3!! And we all went home with no carnage!! Jimmi

[Aerogance]

I recently read the specifications on a full size craft that has a wing loading of 65 lbs/sf. If wingloading didn't scale with size, the little Mini would have to weigh over 70lbs...heavier than a D160!

[Aerogance]

New oversized servo covers are out of the mold and trimmed to fit. Better servos (more torque and much less slop) are on hand, ready to be fit into the wing. I have over 1lb of derby lead ready to be stuffed into every available cubic inch of space inside this little bird.

With these upgrades, this Mini DS should easily blow by 150mph without any flutter and could challenge the 175mph mark. Now I just need to keep her in one piece long enough for that magic Weldon day...

[Aerogance]

Servos changed out and new servo covers painted/installed. Ailerons are now rock solid. If you can find tighter ailerons, marry 'em!

[Aerogance]

I made a test panel today from an EPP core I cut a while back. I made this to test compatability of paints/primers/release agents. I am thinking of ordering a few sets of cores made from spyder foam and doing a heavy layup to push the next Mini DS to 2 lbs AUW.

[screamin' eagle]

Aaron, where do you order your cores from? Perhaps we should do a group core buy and build a gang of these...

[Aerogance]

Aaron, where do you order your cores from? Perhaps we should do a group core buy and build a gang of these...

I cut these with an old feathercut. I am with you on ordering a pile of cores. Jason turned me on to airfoam.com so that is where I was planning to get the next sets of cores from.

[screamin' eagle]

I cut these with an old feathercut. I am with you on ordering a pile of cores. Jason turned me on to airfoam.com so that is where I was planning to get the next sets of cores from.

Got a link? www.airfoam.com comes up empty...

[Aerogance]

Got a link? www.airfoam.com comes up empty...

Oops. Try this one www.flyingfoam.com (http://www.flyingfoam.com)

[screamin' eagle]

Oops. Try this one www.flyingfoam.com (http://www.flyingfoam.com)

Ah, I know the site. Thanks.

[Aerogance]

The other half of the wing is in the bag.

[Aerogance]

Both halves came out okay despite the EPP core. I wasn't planning on finishing this wing, but what the heck...

[Aerogance]

I put 17.5 oz of stick-on pine derby weights in place of the opus slugs and lead scraps I was using as ballast. She flew in good Weldon today but the wind was light at mid 20's gusting to the low 30's most of the time. With the extra ballast, the Mini DS hit 148mph, with many passes in the 135mph range. I drove for over 100 miles through 50-60mph desert winds to reach the relative calm of Weldon, but I can't complain about the beautiful day and clean backside conditions. I hope to get this little bird in 40-50mph winds before she bites it. I think with the new linkages and the correct amount of ballast, even this "dirty" Mini DS could scratch the 175mph mark.

[daboz]

Yea, that little heavy plane was a blast yesterday. I'll have to get one,, one of these days just so I can really ring it out... :)

[Aerogance]

Jimmi a.k.a. "Flyboyjimmi" has a new set of bagged Mini DS wings and will be starting to build his Mini DS. I will be adding content to this thread to help him along as well as anyone else who wants to build one.

For starters, I have put together a parts list for building an "old-school" balsa / foam core model.

I will be putting up plans for the fuse/wing/tail as I get it done.

[Aerogance]

These are the cells (http://www.batteriesplus.com/p-27169-sanyo-aaa-nimh-consumer-button-top-industrial-rechargeable-cell-hr-aaau.aspx) the plane is designed for. Order a square pack with 4 cells for a total of 4.8v / 800mah.

[Aerogance]

Here is the plan for the vertical tail. The arrows indicate grain direction.

[flyboyjimi]

Aaron, thanks for the drawings Im sorry we got cut off my phone went dead! I got the servos receiver and battery the clevis connectors and I still need the spagheti carbon to glue to the ends and the plastic clevises you suggested I got the 1/2 A horns for the tail but I need the ones for the aielerons. Tomorrow I will see about some wood to start glueing and I found some very light cloth to cover the frame as per our discussion Thanks again and when I start getting some pieces together I will try and get a picture or two to show you my progress Talk to you soon Jimmi

[Aerogance]

Here is the layout for the horizontal stabilizer.

[Aerogance]

Here is the wing layout.

[flyboyjimi]

Aaron forgive my thinking but is the two pieces in front of the vertical different grain patterns to give strength to the vertical or would one piece not work and yhen fasten it to the vertical stab(rudder)

[Aerogance]

Aaron forgive my thinking but is the two pieces in front of the vertical different grain patterns to give strength to the vertical or would one piece not work and yhen fasten it to the vertical stab(rudder)

The grain direction helps the thin strake not fall apart as it does if you run the grain vertically. It is also easier to shape the edge if you are with the grain.

You know this, but for the benefit of others, there is no rudder.

[Aerogance]

Aaron, thanks for the drawings Im sorry we got cut off my phone went dead! I got the servos receiver and battery the clevis connectors and I still need the spagheti carbon to glue to the ends and the plastic clevises you suggested I got the 1/2 A horns for the tail but I need the ones for the aielerons. Tomorrow I will see about some wood to start glueing and I found some very light cloth to cover the frame as per our discussion Thanks again and when I start getting some pieces together I will try and get a picture or two to show you my progress Talk to you soon Jimmi

Sounds good! I am planning to try the glass/balsa/glass sandwich fuselage construction we talked about. I will post some shots when I lay it up tomorrow.

[Aerogance]

Here is the outline for the fuselage sides (not including top/bottom sheeting or nose block)

[Aerogance]

Here is the fuselage side view showing sheeting etc.

[Aerogance]

This is where I put my wing servos. Any further out and they will surely stick out. I may move them closer to the center line on the next one.

[Mihai]

Airfoil? What's the target AUW without ballast? Any thoughts on make one out of EPP? Thanks a lot for sharing the design.
Mihai

[screamin' eagle]

Yes, the airfoil would be very helpful to know! We should get together a group buy on wing cores from Compufoamcore - it's a lot cheaper to order in volume since he only has to set up the CNC once. I am in for a set for sure.

I'm going to do a lost foam fuselage.

Dominic

[Aerogance]

Yes, the airfoil would be very helpful to know! We should get together a group buy on wing cores from Compufoamcore - it's a lot cheaper to order in volume since he only has to set up the CNC once. I am in for a set for sure.

I'm going to do a lost foam fuselage.

Dominic

Airfoil is the RG14 from root to tip. Check post #1 for updated specs.

The wing cutout in the fuse is a little big, it was originally intended for the old mini size wing, but the root chord of the ds is smaller. FYI if you build to the plans above. I will fix it soon.

I am building a fuse plug for a moulded fuselage. Let me know if you would be interested in one. I will be posting the build here in this thread.

My current Mini DS has epp cores, but they are sheeted with plywood. I am down for a group core order of some good spyder or blue foam.

[Aerogance]

Airfoil? What's the target AUW without ballast? Any thoughts on make one out of EPP? Thanks a lot for sharing the design.
Mihai

RG14 @ 7.5%

My MiniDS came in at 12.5oz unballasted. For light winds (12-15mph) I have been flying it at 15.5oz. I believe that 32oz (2 pounds) will be the supreme weight for very windy conditions (40mph).

I am not sure if the plane would make a good EPP smashie, but try it and let us know!

Aaron

[Aerogance]

The front plywood former is 7/8" wide (adjust for your particular battery pack).

The front wing hold down/former is 1" wide.

The rear wing bolt hold down/former is 1" wide. NOTE: This plywood hold down needs to be removed for elevator servo installation, so tack it in when building the fuse and epoxy it in after the servo is installed.

The end of the tail should come in at 3/8" wide or slightly wider to allow for a 1/4" hole to be drilled for the elevator pushrod.

[flyboyjimi]

Sounds like you covered all the bases Aaron. now I gotta go find the right kind of wood hopefully at local hobby people today and Ill be ready to start. When I enlarge my PDF files to 70 percent it just about fits the wing I got from you perfectly! Ready to start with leading edge and end caps then cutout aielerons and servo holes and run wires Good instructions so far Keep up the plans and especially the details.

[screamin' eagle]

.

I am building a fuse plug for a moulded fuselage. Let me know if you would be interested in one. I will be posting the build here in this thread.



Thanks Aaron. Yes, please put me on the fuse list.

Dominic

[Aerogance]

Sounds like you covered all the bases Aaron. now I gotta go find the right kind of wood hopefully at local hobby people today and Ill be ready to start. When I enlarge my PDF files to 70 percent it just about fits the wing I got from you perfectly! Ready to start with leading edge and end caps then cutout aielerons and servo holes and run wires Good instructions so far Keep up the plans and especially the details.


Generally, print the PDF files with page scaling turned OFF. They are generated to scale

[flyboyjimi]

Good tip. Once again my lack of computer savvy eludes me Thanx jimmi

[Mihai]

RG14 @ 7.5%

My MiniDS came in at 12.5oz unballasted. For light winds (12-15mph) I have been flying it at 15.5oz. I believe that 32oz (2 pounds) will be the supreme weight for very windy conditions (40mph).

I am not sure if the plane would make a good EPP smashie, but try it and let us know!

Aaron

Thanks. A couple more questions if you don't mind - what's the role of the extension in front of the rudder? Does it have an aerodynamic role, or it's cosmetic?

Also, you seem to have the servo links on the bottom - any particular reason for that? Usually, on the bottom they're more likely to get snagged on landing; also, often the bottom of the airfoil has a chance to get laminar flow if it's undisturbed by links... is anything bad if I put it on top?

Thanks,
M.

[Aerogance]

Thanks. A couple more questions if you don't mind - what's the role of the extension in front of the rudder? Does it have an aerodynamic role, or it's cosmetic?

Also, you seem to have the servo links on the bottom - any particular reason for that? Usually, on the bottom they're more likely to get snagged on landing; also, often the bottom of the airfoil has a chance to get laminar flow if it's undisturbed by links... is anything bad if I put it on top?

Thanks,
M.

The extension in front of the vertical stabilizer is similar to the original Mini 1. I kept it for nostalgia. Aerodynamically and structurally the are pros and cons. It pays homage to the original and looks cool in the air.

I have the servos under the wing. The servo covers protect the servos and also act like landing skids to help protect the wing on hard surface landings. The servos could easily be installed on the top of the wing. I am not sure which way is "faster". I made a mould for oversized servo covers. My covers work with the "Mike the Snake" style linkages and act like landing gear. Let me know if you need a set.

[Aerogance]

I am building a plug for a fuselage mould. I will be building the plug exactly as if I were building a standard built-up fuselage and will post the build progress. Here is what I have so far:

[Aerogance]

The next step is to use CA to tack-glue the two halves together and sand them as a unit to get the outline perfect. Then add your formers, triangle stock and top/bottom sheeting. Add the nose, sand it out, glass it, finish it and fly it....

[Aerogance]

The extension in front of the vertical stabilizer is similar to the original Mini 1. I kept it for nostalgia. Aerodynamically and structurally the are pros and cons. It pays homage to the original and looks cool in the air.

Here is an image of the new larger vertical tail compared to the original:

[screamin' eagle]

I'm thinking about ordering my cores. I'm going to order full cut for bagging. If anyone else is interested in cores as well (i.e., a group buy) - are you guys going to be sheeting yours? With 1/64th ply? All this has to be worked out for the core order. I think Laszlo at Compufoamcore really likes to use pink foam, so that's probably what I'll use.

[screamin' eagle]

Aaron, sorry to pester but I'm checking on cores - could you post the root, tip, and sweep dimensions? When I print the wing PDF to actual size I am getting a 20" wing panel and 40" span, and I don't think that's right. THanks!

[Mihai]

Aaron, sorry to pester but I'm checking on cores - could you post the root, tip, and sweep dimensions? When I print the wing PDF to actual size I am getting a 20" wing panel and 40" span, and I don't think that's right. THanks!

I'm confused as well - I always thought that it's a 40" span, but the first post says 28"... so which one is it? It's a big difference between the two :).

M.

[Aerogance]

Aaron, sorry to pester but I'm checking on cores - could you post the root, tip, and sweep dimensions? When I print the wing PDF to actual size I am getting a 20" wing panel and 40" span, and I don't think that's right. THanks!

I dimensioned the wing template. Check it out:

[Aerogance]

I'm confused as well - I always thought that it's a 40" span, but the first post says 28"... so which one is it? It's a big difference between the two :).

M.

It is 28" span. I am working on a revised version of the wing and fuse but it will be some time before I build one and test it. Just some minor changes to improve the plane. One change will be the chord length and thickness and will be largely based around the best servo for this size plane and the speeds it flys. The Dymond servos are working well with the D40, maybe those would work well in this plane. For me, I want the cheapest and thinnest no-slop servo that can get the job done. I am curious about the Dymond, if anyone tries it let me know how it worked.

[Aerogance]

Aaron, sorry to pester but I'm checking on cores - could you post the root, tip, and sweep dimensions? ...

The leading edge is swept back, the trailing edge has zero sweep.

[flyboyjimi]

These new pics answered the questions i had for you now to try and start cutting sides for the fuse Jimmi

[Aerogance]

Looks like a good west wind has picked up this afternoon. I will be flying the Mini at Kanan at 5:30pm. Stop by and check it out.

[Aerogance]

Flew Kanan, wind was 20avg when I got there and decent energy but crappy lift. Then the wind tapered off....

I got a bunch of fun laps in before the wind died. I took a few shots of the Mini on the front in the dieing air.

Boy that plane sure looks small, good thing the neon red color POPS!

[Aerogance]

While trying to take pictures of a tiny and ballasted little plane in almost dead air with an iPhone camera, I managed to cartwheel the Mini DS real hard and blow out the rear wing hold-down. This type of damage is typical on a hard cartwheel and takes about 60 seconds to fix in the field with CA, even less time if you use kicker.

I have taken pictures of the carnage for the benefit of those attempting to build a Mini DS. Check out these photos for hints and tips on how to put your Mini DS together:

[screamin' eagle]

I miss flying Kanan. I hit Temescal on my way home and it was cranking (by Temescal standards). I flew the new 60" Halfpipe and had a blast...

[flyboyjimi]

Ouch!!! And I saw this very plane rack up some impressive speeds. Sorry to see it busted up BUT,it answers many questions I had about reinforcing my wing and placement of wing rod and blocks and removing the triangle around where the servo sticks right to the side of the fuse. I got a might Feather servo for my elevator so whichever hole makes it center down the inside of the fuse I will use. Are you gonna patch this one up or build a shiny new one? And did you remove any ballast when the wind died or is that why it stalled on you. jimmmi

[flyboyjimi]

Aaron, i got the 256 ends and the plastic clevises and the 80 thousanths carbon rod did you drill out the control rod ends or shave down the carbon rod I thought I would do both as now the hole is very small and grinding down the carbon enough to fit seems like it would make the rod weak right where it fits into the control rod ends?

[Aerogance]

Ouch!!! And I saw this very plane rack up some impressive speeds. Sorry to see it busted up BUT,it answers many questions I had about reinforcing my wing and placement of wing rod and blocks and removing the triangle around where the servo sticks right to the side of the fuse. I got a might Feather servo for my elevator so whichever hole makes it center down the inside of the fuse I will use. Are you gonna patch this one up or build a shiny new one? And did you remove any ballast when the wind died or is that why it stalled on you. jimmmi

I flew with different AUW's ranging from 15.5oz to 22oz. The plane is a quick fix, I just brought home the wreck to photograph it. It will fly again.

The second hole from center on the servo arm prevented the clevis from binding against the servo. I would have rather gone with the #1 hole instead of the #2 hole.

Aaron

[Aerogance]

Aaron, i got the 256 ends and the plastic clevises and the 80 thousanths carbon rod did you drill out the control rod ends or shave down the carbon rod I thought I would do both as now the hole is very small and grinding down the carbon enough to fit seems like it would make the rod weak right where it fits into the control rod ends?

Jimmi,
There are a few different versions of the 2-56 couplers available. One is made for ~.070 wire and that is the one that works with the carbon rod. Sand the rod end a hair and should be a nice fit. Sullivan makes the ones I use.

Sullivan Products (http://www.sullivanproducts.com/ContSysAccMainFrame.htm)
S513
2-56 x 1-1/8" Threaded Brass Couplers for .035" to .070" cables and rods
2 pieces

[Aerogance]

Here are photos of the assembled pushrod and the pushrod exit hole at the tail of the fuselage.

Parts List:

Great Planes Small Nylon Control Horn (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK107&P=M)
Du-Bro #228 Mini Kwik-Link Nylon Clevis (http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=228/101.0)
Midwest .080 Carbon Rod (http://www.midwestproducts.com/item_detail.asp?item_id=438)
Sullivan S513 Brass Couplers (http://www.sullivanproducts.com/ContSysAccMainFrame.htm)

[alkoo]

Aaron,

Maybe Im missing something, but if this plane is designed to be DSed, why would you go to the trouble of making such sturdy pushrods and then use nylon clevises?

Metal clevises would be a much better choice.

Just my 2 cents.


Waz

[Mihai]

Thanks a lot for the pics - they help a lot in figuring out how to put it together!
M.

[Aerogance]

Aaron,

Maybe Im missing something, but if this plane is designed to be DSed, why would you go to the trouble of making such sturdy pushrods and then use nylon clevises?

Metal clevises would be a much better choice.

Just my 2 cents.


Waz

Good observation. In practice, the nylon hardware is adequate for the speeds and loads the plane achieves. The carbon pushrod is light and stiff but still flexible so you can "yoga" it into the fuselage. Also, metal clevises are too big to fit well in this little plane (I have tried it). And the sub-micro servos lack the girth of larger ones to exploit a full-metal drivetrain.

The moulded Mini DS Pro is being designed for strong servos and metal drivetrain, but that thing is still a ways out before the first prototype gets airborne.

[Aerogance]

Thanks a lot for the pics - they help a lot in figuring out how to put it together!
M.

Post some pics as you progress!

[screamin' eagle]

I also like plastic clevises in a ship this size because they have much less slop out of the box.

[flyboyjimi]

I have seen several people fly this exact plane to the high 140s and what Aaron says is both logical, practical, and works! slop, size, and light load makes for a sturdy yet adequate setup. I got the parts and the linkage will be a snap, once I wiggle the upside down servo back into the fuse! Everything is logical and practical so far. Keep up the explanations They are helping me out immensely Jimmi

[Aerogance]

I have seen several people fly this exact plane to the high 140s and what Aaron says is both logical, practical, and works! slop, size, and light load makes for a sturdy yet adequate setup. I got the parts and the linkage will be a snap, once I wiggle the upside down servo back into the fuse! Everything is logical and practical so far. Keep up the explanations They are helping me out immensely Jimmi

I think the plane will be solid to 175mph with a light build and plastic linkages. For a 200mph contender, I would consider beefing everything up as extra insurance and to help get more weight into the plane.

[Aerogance]

Here are assembly photos of the balsa fuselage. I will post more as I continue working on it:

[Aerogance]

As you can see from this photo, the battery and receiver just fit, leaving only enough room for nose weight to balance the plane out.

[Aerogance]

Next step is to add triangle balsa stock to the fuselage:

[Aerogance]

Cut 10 pieces of 3/16" x 4" balsa sheet cross grain and at least 1 1/4" wide to sheet the top and bottom of the fuselage:

[Aerogance]

At this point, you should sand the top and bottom fuselage sheeting flush with the fuselage sides. Make sure you do not sand the fuselage out of square. This is the perfect time to make the tail fillets. It is also the perfect time to add the nose block (I am out of balsa blocks so I will have to make a run to the store before I can continue past this point). You could also make your wing fillets if you have your wing completed already. I will assume you do not have your wing finished and will make the wing fillets later on:

[screamin' eagle]

I couldn't resist. I had this nice 32" carbon wing waiting for a fuse. I was following this thread, and next thing you know... :eek:

[Zimodile]

Super nice model!!! It doesn't appear to have any dihedral - would you put some in next time?

Many thanks

Zim

[screamin' eagle]

Super nice model!!! It doesn't appear to have any dihedral - would you put some in next time?

Many thanks

Zim

There's a touch of dihedral in there; the top of the wing is flat. In its former life, I actually found the wing to be a bit too stable (considering its size) so I'll be interested to see how it performs now. I'll report back.