I Can't Believe it!!!!

[Jcopter]

My Supositively New Fiberglassed Equipage Riviera never been in the water Deck is now spliting!! I thought that this problem was taken care of. I did not purchase it untill way after the other problems. I have the venice and it has not split too bad, now after almost getting my Riviera finished I am feeling the deck and noticed that it is splitting along the two seams at the front. This really sucks since now I have two trash boats!! I am Really Pissed off at EQUIPAGE, and I looked at the finish and could swear I saw some fiberglass weave, But now I guess it was just a bad finish job. Now what to do? Maybe I will call HP and Bitch (But it wont do any good)
Jcopter

[Aerominded]

Major bummer :(

[patmat2350]

Are you sure it was glassed? Easy to tell... if it was, you'll see shredded glass at the break. Also, they haven't done a very good job finishing, so the glass weave is quite visible on the deck.

This one has been sitting in my basement for a year now, no signs of splits. Took less time for my unglassed Monaco to literally explode in the same environment.

[Jcopter]

I thought I saw the weave under the finish It looked kinda Checkered But now it could just be bad final finish My father and I got 2 of them at the same time his has not split yet. I was so sure that I got one of the new ones It had the new metal windscreen and I looked at the deck. I just looked at it with a loop and do not see any Glass just dust in the splits.
Jcopter

[Kmot]

If you bought it from Hobby People, it is not a fiberglassed version. HP stopped being an importer of the Equipage boats long before the fiberglassed versions ever made it into a container ship. Everything HP has in inventory is the 1st generation stuff. They have been trying to sell off their existing inventory for a year.

[Jcopter]

I asked if they were the new ones and they said Yes
jcopter

[Kmot]

Did you ask Mike Greenshields? Or the kids behind the counter at your local HP?

[charlie eaton]

I have the Venice 90 and while it hasn't been in the water yet it is a 2nd generation hull. You can definatly see the weave of the F.G. on it and it has a coating of some sort inside. Looks to be a sprayed in resin.

[Kmot]

If that's the case and you bought it from Hobby People then I stand corrected.

[Jcopter]

I did not ask the kid behind the counter, In fact my father got the first one and when he got it home, I checked it and it was split all over rite out of the box, so back to the store and got the store manager to Order 2 of the New boats waited looked good when arrived I'm tellin ya In the finish it is dimpled looks like thin fiberglass coating but now it appears that it is just a bad finish. I am so mad I went round and round with the store manager about being sure that the boats are new and not the 1st ones caus I did not want another as I all ready have one bad boat and do not want another. I'm going to talk to him today as I have a good relationship with him, But I have so much Time and custom work into this boat as it is....SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS
Jcopter

[norgale]

Whew! Copter is mad and I don't blame him one bit. Better to build your own boats. Pete

[Kmot]

But I have so much Time and custom work into this boat as it is....SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS

Yeah, tell me about it! :rolleyes:

After the experience with my highly customized Venice 90 cracking all to he!! and the flip response from Equipage I decided to never again buy another product made by Equipage.

Sorry you are having to go through this. Been there, done that...

[charlie eaton]

If that's the case and you bought it from Hobby People then I stand corrected.

Nope didn't get it from them, got it from RCCommand.

[Kmot]

Then I re-stand on my original comment! :D

[Jcopter]

Why would HP continue to sell Items that they know are defective? seems Like they would send the 1 gens back and only get the new ones. But to continue to sell them seems to be bad for customer relations I purchased on good Faith and now this!
After the first round I said that I would not get another Equipage boat, But after reading that they had fixed the problem... I felt Safe in getting one (After all it is a good looking model) and did so, and now to find out that HP is offing these defective Items on the Public, I don't know what to say....
Jcopter

[Kmot]

Here is a question and answer session between myself and the President of Hobby People:

Tom "Kmot" Keliher Says:

November 12, 2007 at 9:05 pm
1) There is a rumor that Global will not continue to carry the Equipage line of boats. Is this true? If not true, will Global be stocking the newest Equipage line of boats?

rcgeneral Says:

November 12, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Tom,
Answering your questions in same order:
1) At this time, we are not sure what the future holds for us and Equipage. I think they are absolutely gorgeous boats, but I am not sure they are right for us as they have not been the hit with our customers I thought they would be. So, at this time, we do not have plans to add the newer boats.

I took this to mean they did not buy any of the 2nd gen boats. This is my interpretation. Yours may be different.

[herrmill]

Do we have any lawyers present? Sounds like a class action to me. If you don't get any satisfaction from your dealer, I'd contact their GM, Philip Hill of Equipage Co, Ltd. - Vietnam at equipagemodels@vnn.vn & start complaining.

[Jcopter]

I just Can't Believe that they would continue to sell these models without disclosing the faults which I know that they know about, anyways I will talk to the manager tomorrow and see what he says, and see what happens. I just cant get over it and I worked so hard on it New Shaft/Lithiam Greese all shafts/ new back name lettering/ new coupler/ new motor mount/ Cooling System/ Custom batterys from Canada/ Custom Homie Driver/and the list goes on. I was so proud of that model, I got That close to finally getting it in the watter and now I am so dissapointed!!! Idid a new inspection and I have just found more cracks Crapp
Jcopter

[Kmot]

Chuck, you know what Mr. Phillip Hill of Equipage said to Global Hobby about this issue?

He denied that anyone had any complaints, #1. Then he suggested I read the RCG thread on how to fiberglass by Pat Tritle, and repair my own boat! So much for customer support.

However, he did say he was going to implement fiberglass finishes on future builds.

Jack, I hear ya. I went though the exact same thing:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525368&page=28&highlight=Venice+90

[jeepers1940]

I do feel for all you guys who spent good money in good faith on those wooden timebombs. I hope all of us - victims and non-victims - show them that we have loonnng memories.

[Jcopter]

Kmot I read all of your stuff Thats how I found out my Venice was Defective
from you threads and you did all that custom stuff also, However I would not have got a new one Had I not been assured that I was getting 1 of the new boats as I do not need 2 EXPLODO BOATS! And as far as them not getting complaints I complained, They Know!, And I know how to glass a model But should not have to, to a finished suposta be glassed or I would not have got one, Finished model
Or I would only own one and not two. So I shall see how tomorrow goes
I'm going to go down and bitch
Jcopter

[der kapitan]

I'm glad that I'm not in the position to have to buy this imported Chinese garbage, as I build my own. :)

But to do an upgrade on these boats, and have them self-destruct is pure heartbreak---. :eek:

Raise hell with the guys that sold you this crap, and push until you get satisfaction, or put them out of business---. :p

Next time, BUY AMERICAN, or roll your own---. :D

[herrmill]

Kap,

Its Vietnamese, not Chinese garbage, in this case. Equipage is not made here & you'll undoubtedly see more RTR boats coming from Vietnam in the near future as the Chinese production moves south to the land of lower labor costs.

Its interesting to find you'll see similar complaints about lack of quality regarding Vietnamese ARF planes. Reminds me of China a few years ago when the industries were brand new.

Chuck

[Aerominded]

And there was a time when "Made in Japan" was regarded as "garbage" too... Go where the cheap labor is, give them sharp tools, the time to master those tools- quality will improve and production will eventually cost more... and the cycle will begin again...

I like to roll my own when I can... I pay myself in beer ;)

[Bob Bighinatti]

Hay Jcopter. My Monaco 100 split down the side and almost sank. I emailed HP and got on responce from them . I emailed Global Hobbies thay responed within 2 hrs and said ship it back to them. I got a new one in about a week .
Look up my build thread .
Bob Big :)

[norgale]

Jcopter; They are stuck with the models as the Mfger won't take them back. However the least they could do is say that there is a defect that could be repaired by a modeler and knock the price down a bit. Then you'd know what your getting. You need to think twice before buying from HP again and Equipage too. This wood spliting has been going on for some time now so buyer beware. Pete

[Jcopter]

Went to HP today Talked to the Mgr. And what they said was they do not have any New 2 gen Boats, So I would not get one from HP, They are just getting rid of old stock. The Mgr at HP said that they could refund my money and let me keep the boat, that was the best they could do. So I will take it apart and glass it real quick before it gets any worse. Any Ideas on the best way to do it and recomendations on what kind of glass should I use... Sand of the old finish or just sand and apply new? Any Ideas
Thanks
Jcopter

[Kmot]

Search for, and read the article on here by Pat Tritle on how to fiberglass a mahogany boat. That was the recommendation from Equipage themselves.

[Shaun Hendricks]

I have to ask a question here... how would you repair the full scale boat in case of such a split? I can't imagine the model being too different an operation.

Any full scale boat fixer folks around that might be able to chime in with a fix? Isn't the issue that the wood wasn't dried properly?

Maybe you would have to strip the planks off and re-do the hull... ugly prospect, but perhaps better than a boat that isn't worth being a shelf ornament...

[trawlerlover]

Search for, and read the article on here by Pat Tritle on how to fiberglass a mahogany boat. That was the recommendation from Equipage themselves.

I've got that thread bookmarked. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329811

[Jcopter]

Good God shawn Be gentle! I just want to put a glass coating on what I got. I did'nt want to even have to do that, But now if I want to keep this boat it must be done.... or I could just let it pop apart
Jcopter

[patmat2350]

One of the big problems is that the planking was glued to Masonite frames... no strength in that joint, because it's glued to sawdust. When those cracks open up, it's not the wood shrinking THAT much, but rather the planks springing away from the frames.

I imagine a strap cinched around the hull would pull it together... but you still have nothing solid to glue the planks to, and a thin layer of cloth will be hard pressed to hold it.

Maybe strip off the deck, reinforce the frames with "real" wood, and relay the deck?

[patmat2350]

Figure out the process, and make a business of salvaging Equipage models!

[norgale]

I agree with Pat. When you have defective wood and you fix it you still have defective wood. I'd try to remove the whole piece that's cracked and replace with something else. While your at it sister up those masonite frames with wood ones and then you'll probably have a decent looking deck that will last or sides or what have you. How about a picture of this bad wood and the boat? Pete

[patmat2350]

here ya go

[Jcopter]

Now, Mine is not that bad yet, I can feel the splits with my finger nail I do not believe that it has become loose from the inner areas... still small Splits. And the way I see it, if I sand it and them glass the whole boat where can the wood go?
so thats my plan and I'm stickin withit
Jcopter

[Jcopter]

What really upsets me is that HP is continuing to sell these to people who do not know what to expect.... If they said upfront, this is for sale, here is the price and this is what to expect, well at least you would know what you are in for and not be suprised and become an unhappy customer. I know I would rather have Happy customers who came back with their cash often... But that is just me
Jcopter

[Aerominded]

If it has not been said already, use epoxy resin, Jcopter, not polyester... with poly, if the surface is not completely bare/clean, you run the risk of having a reaction with whatever the finish is on the boat... that would make a bad situation a much worse and sticky one...

[Jcopter]

OK Polyester it is
Jcopter

[Kmot]

use epoxy resin, Jcopter, not polyester....
epoxy resin, NOT polyester. ;)

[Jcopter]

My Bad.... EPOXY ...

[norgale]

What? Particle board? Do I see particle board in the picture of the motor? I cannot believe this. What knothead would use particle board in a boat of any kind? This is a rip off. Pete

[norgale]

If that split is in the wood then it could be repaired without too much trouble. However if it's a joint between two pieces of wood then I would think the frames are spreading like horizontal hogging. In that case the wood should be removed and the frames strengthened and new wood put back on. If this is supposed to be fiberglass covered then it's some very poor fiberglass. Really hard to decide from here but there is definetly a problem with this construction. IMHO! Pete

[patmat2350]

The picture with the splits is un-glassed.
The other boat IS glassed, and is in as-new condition after a year.

The splits are between planks, and I'm tellin'ya, the planks have come free of the frames.

[Predreadnut]

I've had a similiar thing happen to my Proboat Classic Runabout. I've had it for a few years now and its not unusable.....yet. I'll tell ya, Proboat has sold ALOT of these, and if they all do it, that would be another big group of unhappy modellers.

[steveciambrone]

One of the big problems is that the planking was glued to Masonite frames... no strength in that joint, because it's glued to sawdust. When those cracks open up, it's not the wood shrinking THAT much, but rather the planks springing away from the frames.


Pat, I had thought the problem might be the masonite frames since I had never seen any model built with it before. Seems like an odd choice for a building material.

My Monico 100 is looking pretty bad. Still get iritated about getting ripped on this model.

Thanks
Steve

[Jcopter]

steveciambrone Did you ever tell the People At HP?
I know that they know about the problem, but they tried to make it seem like it was not a persistant Problem, only happening to "some" models But I Know different.
So how many of you have complained to them about this? Even thou I had got mine a while before I still got some compensation. But they can not say there is no problem if all who got a boat and had a problem told them. I'm sure many who buy this just say Oh Well and move on with out saying a word, we should not keep our mouths shut, If a product is subpar Complain, or they will just keep going like nothing is wrong. I for one was tired of getting ripped off! And I said so, So should You. Just My Opinion
Jcopter

[Shaun Hendricks]

Good heavens, I had no idea they were using masonite for frames...

Well, trying to be an optimist here, in theory you could strip the hull, unplank it, take the frames apart, re-draw them on better work, reassemble the frames & planks, and then glass the boat. At least the only cutting you'd have to do was the new frames... LOL! :D

I agree Pat, there is no way masonite can hold anything in a marine environment. Just the moisture in the air would swell and pop the seams. I have no idea what equipage was thinking. I hope the Gen 2 hulls have real wood frames.

I'm kind of surprised nobody is using sintra and such for production frames. The stuff has to be cheaper than masonite and it's totally waterproof and glues up nicely.

I don't understand the choice of masonite. Did they not test their build materials at all? I am so sorry for all you guys. That just really sucks.

[patmat2350]

2nd generation stills uses Masonite, see above.

[Bob Bighinatti]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831839&page=8
here is what i did to a new Monaco
Bob Big :cool: