Pilot-1 Champ 1/8 Scale

[Flyboone]

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/acw800.jpg (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pilot1champ.htm)

ACW800 Pilot-1 "Champ" 1/8 Scale ARF

52" wingspan, 32" long, 362 sq. in. wing area, 34 oz. flying weight. All laser cut built-up wood construction with true scale outline and proportions. A contemporary of the Piper Cub; the Champ was its biggest competitor and in many ways its superior. Like its full scale counterpart, the 1/8 scale Champ is a joy to fly, easy and relaxed. Shoot touch-and-go's, cruise around or do some lazy aerobatics, it's all in a day's work with the Champ. The model comes with all main components pre-built and pre-covered with all hinges pre-slotted and ready to glue. Landing gear is pre-bent and ready to install. Fiberglass cowl is pre-finished to match the color of the airplane. Complete step-by-step photo illustrated instructions assure that even a novice builder will be successful. Assembly will take about 6-8 hours. For 4-channel control: Ailerons (2 servos), Elevator, Rudder and Throttle.

For more information and to watch the video click HERE (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pilot1champ.htm)

Use this thread to discuss any and all things related to Pilot-1 Champ 1/8 Scale.

[Flyboone]

Hey guys,
The Champs are in stock!!!!!!! We just got them in and will be shipping out back orders immediately. Enjoy. http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pilot1champ.htm

Thanks,
Jason Cole

[ctyankee]

I just got mine!!!! Can't wait to get it flying!!!!!!!

[nageotte]

I cannot afford the expensive motors that are recommended with this plane.

How many Watts and KV should a motor have for this plane?

Thanks

[Tank52]

So what are the initial reports on the Champ? It looks like a sweet flyer...

[3010charles]

I received mine in the mail today! And I can say that the quality of this ARF is very good! Mine has no wrinkles or warps!!! That's always a plus with me. I hope to maiden mine this coming weekend.

[pda4you]

I cannot afford the expensive motors that are recommended with this plane.

How many Watts and KV should a motor have for this plane?

Thanks

I would say about 175w-200w would be about right for this plane...

http://lightflightrc.com/

Has suppo 2217-08 or 09 motors that are 1100kv and 950kv respectively.

I would go with the 950kv for this plane for a larger prop as it will be no speed demon.

They are less than 20 bucks!

But.... The AXI's are wonderful motors.... :)

Mike

[3010charles]

This is the motor I plan on using
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atlas2317.htm
You can get this with 20% off :D
Have a Full 3-year warranty!!

[Tank52]

Here's another power option (http://www.bmkdesigns.net/Scorpion-2215-18-1131kv-210-Watt-Brushless-Motor-pr-172.html).

This chart (http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/Scorpion/Motor%20Comparison%20Web.htm) says the Scorpion 2215-18 is a close match to the Axi 2217/16. Not bad at half the price for this motor. What do you think?

[Tank52]

I've heard some great things about the Scorpion line...just bought a 2212-22 for my Tyro-100 (http://www.mountainmodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_151&products_id=464&osCsid=6cb1852d0350579e6de117b0ed63cebf) after a recommendation from a fellow RCG'er (thanks Joe). We'll see how that one runs...

[pda4you]

I have heard good things about Scorpion - but have not run them. And it is a bit more than the Suppo's. I really have liked the Suppos as well.

Mike

[dee-grose]

I'll chime in here with a comment on the power for the Champ. Also, since I'm doing a full review of the Champ here on RCG, I won't give away too many details and spoil the scoop! :D

I maidened the Champ this past Saturday morning. My thoughts on the power system is that the recommended Axi 2217/16 is PLENTY of power for this plane. I flew three packs through it, and I think I only went to full-throttle a handful of times...just to see what it did. I only did one full-throttle takeoff and that was from the grass. That takeoff was very exciting and resulted in the Champ getting "yanked" off the ground and climbing like a homesick angel! :D

Stay tuned for more flight report details and pictures! ;)

Andy

[nageotte]

Andy,

With all the motors discussed, I am not certain as to which motor you are referring.

Jim

[dee-grose]

Jim, sorry about that. I wasn't clear, was I? I flew mine with the recommended Axi 2217/16 motor.

I'll go edit my post to clear up any confusion.

Andy

[Jaybird]

Mine is on order from my LHS. Maybe in time for Christmas? I see floats in the near future and skis at the very least as the snow is falling in Maine. My LHS carries the E-Flite motors and I've had good luck so far. I have the E-flite Taylorcraft with their 450 outrunner on floats and it works great. That is a clipped wing (46") version so I assume that since the two planes are about the same weight and the Champ has a full span (52") wing that the 450 might be a good motor for that one too.

Looking forward to some build tips and video.

Gotta love a Champ!

Jaybird

[pda4you]

Jaybird - I suspect the 450 will do just fine, the 480 might be even a touch better and closer in power to the recommended AXI....

Mike

[Jaybird]

I just picked mine up at the LHS at noontime today...just as it was coming out of the shipping box! The guys at the shop looked it over with me and everything looks good...nothing broken and the covering is in good shape. This one has the switch cut out but since my esc has one I'll use it. I'll start bulding tonight.

Have the reviews been posted yet?

Jaybird

[pda4you]

Jaybird - you can watch the status of the eZone review on the Comming Soon page here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/upcoming.php

Mike

[dee-grose]

Jaybird...my review of the Champ should go live any day now. It has been submitted for publishing. Stay tuned...

Andy

[Jaybird]

I may not be able to wait that long!

I'll look back through the thread before I start tonight.

Jaybird

[dee-grose]

No need to wait to start on your Champ. There are no "gotchas" in the assembly process. Just pay attention to the instructions and you should go fine. If any questions come up, just gimme a holler if you want to.

Andy

[Jaybird]

The assembly seems to be fine but there is debate on the CG location. It will be a long time before it flies, but it would be nice to get the electronics in a positon to help the CG and not have to move them later or add weight.

Jaybird

[dee-grose]

If you're going with the recommended setup, it balances almost perfectly at 2" as is. You have to add a little lead to the nose if you wanna bring it forward some and make it a little more stable. Mounting your receiver and ESC as far forward as practical may help a little.

[aero104]

I'm still working on the Champ manual v2. Until then, here is a list of the NEW recommended control throws and CG ranges.

CG= 45mm(1.75") to 51mm(2.0"). Start with 45mm then move aft if desired.

Aileron Up=13mm(1/2") -----Down=4mm(1/8")

Elevator UP=21mm(7/8")-----Down=16mm(5/8")

Rudder Left=12mm(1/2")-----Right=10mm(5/16")

Aileron-Rudder mix= 25% is recommended. This means a mix where full aileron also moves rudder about 6mm(1/4") in the same direction as the aileron stick.

Exponential is recommended to "soften" the controls near center stick. Aileron expo=20%, Elevator expo=25%, Rudder expo=15%

(low rate would be about 4mm(1/8") less).

The wings should have zero twist (No wash-out/wash-in).

I hope this helps.

Chris

[Jaybird]

Chris,

Why would you have the rudder travel different left and right, that doesn't make sense to me. I always set up my planes, large and small, with full rudder deflection to both sides and then use my left stick to control it as needed.

Curious.

Jaybird

[dee-grose]

Whatever you do, don't set up the rudder on your Champ to full deflection. You'll be calling Hobby-Lobby for a new kit if you do!

Chris steered me in the right direction after my first flight. I would listen to him. :D

Andy

[Jaybird]

I think I know what you are getting at in flight...the E-Flite Taylorcraft rudder is extremely powerful and if full input is used while flying you'd better hang on. The reason I have full rudder is so when it's needed (for taxiung or cross wind) or wanted (hammerhead stall,etc) it's there. It just didn't make sense to have different amounts of travel. You have control of it's travel with the left stick...so use what's needed.

I just dry fit the tail parts together and find a good solid fit between the stabilzer and rudder and into the fuselage. The problem is that the back end of the saddle needs some trimming to clear the stabilizer/elevator assembly. It is currently too short and binds the stabilzer and elevator halves in place front to back. No big deal, but it will need to be trimmed or the elevator will not move. The rudder will also need to be trimmed at the front a bit to allow it to sit flush on top of the stabilizer. The very front rides on the fuselage and stabilzer laying in the saddle area is about a 1/16" lower and makes a gap. Pretty standard building things to take care of, but if the intent was for anyone to pull this out of the box and assemble it, there are details to take of on the manufacturing end.

I noticed the manual does not mention marking and removing the covering from the bottom of the stabilizer for glueing to the fuselage saddle. Most modelers know to do this, but if there is a revision to the manual, it might be good to include that so the inexperienced builder doesn't glue the film covering of the stab to the fuselage saddle at step #20.

I'm anxious to get started, but I have an hour long drive in a snow storm to get home first.

Jaybird

[dee-grose]

Good points, Jay. I agree with all of them.

Andy

[aero104]

Jaybird, Thanks for the input. I will include items mentioned in new manual.

As for the rudder throws, I should have just put same travel left and right for simplicity. The Champ is not a 3D plane and should not be setup as such. The reason for different travel left and right is for the full-time Ail-Rudder mix. It just seems to fly a bit better (right thumb only) with rudder throw set up as noted. I have flown RC for 32 years and full scale for 25 years (including 300hrs in various Champs). I feel that my setup on low rate gives really nice scale-like flying qualities. :-)

I'm glad you like your Champ. You will be even more impressed with the new Pilot-1 planes coming soon!

Chris Woodward
(www.hobby-lobby.com Jr.R&D, builder,pilot,photos,etc...)

[Jaybird]

Hi Chris,

Again, thanks for listening to all of us and being willing to consider our suggestions. As a design engineer/pilot/RC pilot myself, I fully understand the compromises and considerations that go into the design of a new product and the fact you can't please everybody. You make the best product you can within the parameters of size, weight, performance, cost, etc. and make changes as needed.

I do think it's a shame to leave your left thumb out in the cold, stuck on the throttle and not engaged with the fun and thrill of flying...nothing like a little adverse yaw and big load of p-factor to get the blood pumping. I do use some mixing, but to leave the rudder to the aileron mix is to miss great opportunites to learn (sometimes the hard way) what the rudder is REALLY for.

It will be built this weekend (I'll be home alone) and fly as soon as possible.

Jaybird

[pootman]

My buddy got me a Champ for Christmas and it arrived today!!! I have a E-Flite Taylorcraft and love it, so this plane should be a great fit. I also have some stuff laying around that might work well in this airframe.

Motor: Scorpion 2215-18
ESC: hacker 30
3 Futaba mini digitals (looking for a 4th servo at this time)
2 TP 2000 Pro-lites

All I need is an extra servo and a RX and I'll be set:) If anyone gets a scorpion 2215-18 in theirs I would love to hear how it works out... BTW, beautiful plane right out of the box.

pootman

[Jaybird]

I found the same stabilzer mounting surface issue as you did. When comapred to the wing the stabilzer is not level side to side and tilts several degrees up from left to right. It looks like there might be a slight twist in the fuselage but there is so much structure to try and untwist i think I'd end up breaking a stringer or former. I'll sand down the saddle like you did, but this might be another manufacturing detail that Hobby-Lobby should check.

I also trimmed the rudder to seat better onto the stab and bent the tailwheel mount at the support end so that it will mount flat to the bottom of the fuse and then be perpendicular to the rudder. Another point that should be looked at in the kit. At least warn people about it.

I got home very late last night so only had time for a little bit more dry fitting of parts. Once the stab mount issue is taken care of this plane will go together quickly. My skis fit too!


Jaybird

[Flyboone]

I've got to see a photo of your Champ on the skis!!! Please post when you are finished.


Thanks,
Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[Jaybird]

Hi Jason,

Will do. I'll start my build in earnest tonight and will hopefully get a test flight in tomorrow...we have plenty of snow!

The skis are home made but work well. I had them on a Taylorcraft before I switched that plane over to floats. I have the mini plastic DuBro skis on an Extra 300.

Jay

[Jaybird]

I've got to see a photo of your Champ on the skis!!! Please post when you are finished.


Thanks,
Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Well, here it is. Some inside and outside shots. It taxies well in light powder.
Big storm tonight so a real test flight will have to wait...until the repairs are done...doh!

Jaybird

[nageotte]

I am really interested in your flight reports! Whenever I tried skiis on a model, they dug in too much. I have had to go with floats. Very nice looking skiis, and I don't want to belittle them by nit picking, but you should consider a ski for the tail wheel also. Have fun!

[Jaybird]

I've found that the tail ski is so small it doesn't support the plane any better than the tailwheel. This last storm was really fluffy powder and will have to settle and pack a little before even my float planes can be used...it would also be nice to get temps up over 20 degrees F too!

I can say it's a tough little bird as it's had it's first "hop" and crash into the snow the night I taxi tested it. It damaged the landing gear and broke one of the internal mounting blocks, but it is repaired and ready when the conditions are right. It got stuck while I was taxing late last night (10:30 p.m. in a lighted school field and 17 degrees...stupid, I know but I'd worked all day on it) and when I gave it some power it broke free and took off. It was okay for a bit and then started to bank right and I couldn't seem to correct it with left stick and I couldn't see it well so I brought the power back and it stalled to the left and dove into the snow catching the left ski and breaking the prop. Other than chipping the paint on the bottom of the cowl and bending the left gear frame, no other damage. Yes, I am stupid..and cold...infact the speed control and motor were still chilled by the time I got back home.

Hopefully less excitement (and moore daylight and warmer temps) next time.

Jaybird

[Flyboone]

That looks great Jaybird. Thanks for sharing.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[Jaybird]

Thanks.

Floats would be better in the soft snow but when it gets packed or crusty the skis are better.

Jaybird

[Jaybird]

I guess we are looking to move all further discussion over to the review thread located here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958725

See you over there.

Jaybird

[realtimerecon]

moved post

[Flyboone]

New permanent pricing change.... Now just $129.99

[txflyboys2]

The new Champ looks great and definately has my interest, since I soloed in a 7CCM back in the late '60's. From the video on the factory website, that model leaves no doubt that the recommended motor has all of the power you would ever need for sport flying and then some. The model's speed had it looking more like it was powered by a rocket motor than a prop-driven. I'm as big a fan of having power in the hole when you need it but it seems that making the Champ "look like a Champ" in the air (in regard to airspeed) may be the biggest challenge. My curiosity has gotten the best of me on this one and I'll be purchasing one to find out myself! ;)

Larry