ATTN: Aussies: UAV and FPV Special Interest Group (SIG) for the MAAA

[Mick Molloy]

I posted this in another thread but thought it deserves its own...

Since a few Aussies are in this group, do you think there would be much interest in a UAV Special Interest Group (SIG) for the MAAA, www.maaa.asn.au. At the moment they ban us from flying at MAAA flying sites and our insurance won't cover use either, but they are not specifically banned.
The SIG could aim to promote Autonomous Flight in Aus as a hobby address insurance issues and flying locations. It should be hobby based, so no commerical activities.

FIA does recognize Autonomous Flight as a class F8 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=945020 and the MAAA is affiliated with FAI via ASAC http://www.asac.asn.au

Some MAAA MOP links re SIG's

RECOGNITION BY THE M.A.A.A. OF A NATIONAL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP PROCEDURE (http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/procedures/MOP020%20-%20Proc%20RECOGNITION%20OF%20A%20NSIG%20%20%2023%2 0Dec%202002.pdf)

SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP CODE OF ETHICS (http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/policy/MOP043%20-%20Policy%20SIG%20CODE%20OF%20ETHICS%20%2005%20Sep t%202004.pdf)

MOP065 Policy UAV’s http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/pol...gust%202007.pdf

MOP057 Insurance Conditions http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/pol...0August%202.pdf

[CenTexFlyer]

Good on ya, mate!

Good luck and keep fighting the GOOD fight!

[Blunderbum]

Good Luck with that Mick, if I was you I wouldn't bothering wasting the ink. They are all just a bunch of old :censored: fuddy duddies that can't accept new technology. How long has it taken for them to accept 2.4Ghz and even then you can only operate 10 at one time. What a joke.

I posted this in another thread but thought it deserves its own...

Since a few Aussies are in this group, do you think there would be much interest in a UAV Special Interest Group (SIG) for the MAAA, www.maaa.asn.au. At the moment they ban us from flying at MAAA flying sites and our insurance won't cover use either, but they are not specifically banned.
The SIG could aim to promote Autonomous Flight in Aus as a hobby address insurance issues and flying locations. It should be hobby based, so no commerical activities.

FIA does recognize Autonomous Flight as a class F8 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=945020 and the MAAA is affiliated with FAI via ASAC http://www.asac.asn.au

Some MAAA MOP links re SIG's

RECOGNITION BY THE M.A.A.A. OF A NATIONAL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP PROCEDURE (http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/procedures/MOP020%20-%20Proc%20RECOGNITION%20OF%20A%20NSIG%20%20%2023%2 0Dec%202002.pdf)

SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP CODE OF ETHICS (http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/policy/MOP043%20-%20Policy%20SIG%20CODE%20OF%20ETHICS%20%2005%20Sep t%202004.pdf)

MOP065 Policy UAV’s http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/pol...gust%202007.pdf

MOP057 Insurance Conditions http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/mop/pol...0August%202.pdf

[chancesAU]

Mick go for it thats unreal... im waiting for some more cashflow but im hoping to have a uav happening when the parts become available (atto).
Which do you think will get adopted first by the MAAA... FPV or UAV ?? :P

[Mick Molloy]

FPV has a lot less insurance issue compared to UAV's so I think they will be first a simple safety pilot and buddy box....

[chancesAU]

Hey Mick ive been looking into the requirements for getting a CASA UAV operators certificate, theyre talking about flight experience and ATF experience... I dont have any of that! :(
Do you know how hard it is to get them to issue a license?

Max

[Mick Molloy]

Hey Mick ive been looking into the requirements for getting a CASA UAV operators certificate, theyre talking about flight experience and ATF experience... I dont have any of that! :(
Do you know how hard it is to get them to issue a license?

Max

One of the hard parts with the CASA UAV operators certificate is the should statements it has throughout the document plus the manufacturers training and type flight training, they dont count for home grown or open source systems.

Check out this link, page 15 on http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/101/101c01.pdf spell out the things we SHOULD have ... not shall have.

I think this is another area where an SIG could help...

[chancesAU]

Hmm well its going to be 2009 soon and that doc was published in July 2002. So much has changed since then, im sure the commercial autopilot systems back then were very primitive compared to now.
All I can do is try to address everything and see what they say.

[Mick Molloy]

Hmm well its going to be 2009 soon and that doc was published in July 2002. So much has changed since then, im sure the commercial autopilot systems back then were very primitive compared to now.
All I can do is try to address everything and see what they say.

You only really need that for commercial applications. I.E. getting paid for the UAV work you do..

Check out http://www.bobtait.com.au/NewBooks/Newbooks.htm for the theory you need

[AXI Motor Models]

If you operate a small UAV below 400ft for commercial activity do you need a certificate? I thought the certificate was only for large UAV's.

That would be great if insurance covered hobby UAV's.

If you get permission to fly on someone elses property with standard rc aircraft are you covered with insurance?

[patrickegan]

Has anyone brought the AMA Supplement Code 550 to their attention?

[Mick Molloy]

Has anyone brought the AMA Supplement Code 550 to their attention?
AMA Supplement Code 550 would help the FPV pilots but not UAV

[patrickegan]

True, but it's a start. :) Also, I have suggested a dialogue with CASA about the UK CAA’s CAP 722 document.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=415

[AUSUAV]

I posted this in another thread but thought it deserves its own...

The SIG could aim to promote Autonomous Flight in Aus as a hobby address insurance issues and flying locations. It should be hobby based, so no commerical activities.


Hi Mick,

Yes put me down as interested. I'll keep up to date with things here and / or PM me.

Is / Isn't there a similar group for CASA relating to Commercial UAV Ops? If so could we get on their coat tails?

Cheers
Aaron

[Mick Molloy]

We have smart skies at the top end of the field for large UAVs http://www.arcaa.aero/research/directory1/directory1/
and
UATAR
http://www.uatar.com/

[ios]

The SIG could aim to promote Autonomous Flight in Aus as a hobby address insurance issues and flying locations. It should be hobby based, so no commerical activities.


Cool, so how can one contribute to the SIG?

I'm in the situation of flying an autonomous plane at my rc club on a regular basis. I fly it purely for the fun of it (I work in the industry, but I fly for hobby purposes only), and because I fly regular patterns, apart from those who know me, no one suspects my plane is doing autonomous laps around the field! I keep a low profile, both at the field and here because MAAA does not allow autonomous flight at it's fields for insurance reasons, but I have a clear conscience because I know I'm not breaking any CASA rules (i.e always within LOS and below 400ft) or laws.

In more recent time I have purchased a bigger airframe, which looks more like a UAV (as opposed to a scale Edge 540, or whatever), and my hobby is becoming a little more serious in terms of the airframe and systems I want to fly. Just like those guys who make 1/4 scale models of an Edge 540 or whatever, and fly it around for fun at rc clubs, I'm interested in building a UAV lookalike which does what a UAV does, but for fun. Ok, and admittedly I think it would be fun to enter the Outback Challenge as well - but ultimately I don't see any difference in what I'm doing to someone who is restoring a classic car.

I also fly a camera plane (not quite FPV yet) from my field, which everyone knows and loves, and is encouraged. In my experience however my autonomous plane has always been safer than any regular rc plane inclding my camera ship (think about it - a hobby UAV is normally flown at a single altitude and predominantly staight and level with turns at pre-designated waypoints- not too many UAVs are doing rolls,loops, 3D or hovering!! - and usually the flights are within 5m of the planned ).

Unfortunately, most discussions in this group lead to some sort of commercialisation of what we're doing. Things like getting a COA, or Commercial UAV Ops, or Sense and Avoid systems should really be outside the scope of what we need to discuss. The current CASA Regs are great in that thay allow us to legally fly our small UAVs within Line of Sight and below 400ft - and there is no reason for us to fly these 'hobby' UAVs outside those boundries. Its not like we go flying our other rc planes in the NAS, so why are we discussing it for this class of planes. So the only issue I think needs to be addressed for hobby UAVs is the MAAA position on flying autonomous at their fields (be it for insurance reasons or whatever - but I'm not sure that we understand this reason completely - it might be a matter of demonstarting safety and having a specific code of safety for this class of hobby grade autonomous planes).

I personally don't mind also discussing the commercial uses for these UAVs, but it seems to continually detract from the purpose of this site, which should be for habby and educational purposes.

Furthermore, I'm irritated at individuals who continually make claims here of knowledge about curtain aspects of the commercial UAV reguletory status (patrickegan for example and others,...), but don't actually share any information to allow this community to grow.

If one has commercial asperations for this technology, thats fine by me, but I'd like to see the free flow of information. How can we open up this community on RCGroups so that people start talking about their experiences.

So,... I'll ask again,...if we're going to have a SIG for hobby grade autonomous planes (in australia at least), how can we contribute? and what is the scope.

[Mick Molloy]

Thanks for the reply ios, I think you have covered most of the reasons why we need a SIG. The use of UAV at club fields whether with or without other club members in attendance I think will become a real issue in the future, so getting our voice heard by the states and MAAA will be of the utmost importance.

Scope?

It was mentioned earlier in this post that FPV piloting is suffering the same issues with the MAAA so I have been thinking that a combined approach to technology in aeromoddelling is not a bad idea, plus increased numbers in the groups would not be a bad thing.

Contribute?

I have created a Yahoo group (AAUFPA) and all people who wish to join please follow the link below, I will see how many people we get and got from there… promote this group get as many people to join, both UAV and FPV and we will take things from there.

I will look at rules of association IAW Dept of fair trading, cost etc.

Mick

Click to Join AAUFPA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAUFPA/join)
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/i/au/ui/join.gif

[Mick Molloy]

I have had a few people join already both from FPV and UAV backgrounds great to see in one day.. even some pics added.

[Mick Molloy]

Over 20 memebers a growing.