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View Full Version : CSM200HLG - A question


Kevin
Feb 23, 2003, 04:12 PM
Group

A question, my 2 month old CSM200HLG has developed a problem, but has anyone
else experienced it?

Basically the HH function ceases to operate, but he "rudder" servo can still
be operated from the TX.

Moving the airframe side-to-side does not induce a negative response from
the gyro. Anyone think of a reason why this failure may have happened.

Will be popping the unit back to CSM for repair - but just wanted to know
if/what would cause this.

Kevin

Heli Genius
Feb 24, 2003, 04:32 PM
In my utterly expert, genius opinion, it sounds like it may be fucked.

H.G.


"Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Gja6a.3270$Ax1.211@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Group
>
> A question, my 2 month old CSM200HLG has developed a problem, but has
anyone
> else experienced it?
>
> Basically the HH function ceases to operate, but he "rudder" servo can
still
> be operated from the TX.
>
> Moving the airframe side-to-side does not induce a negative response from
> the gyro. Anyone think of a reason why this failure may have happened.
>
> Will be popping the unit back to CSM for repair - but just wanted to know
> if/what would cause this.
>
> Kevin
>
>

Kevin
Feb 24, 2003, 05:32 PM
That was my thought also! Will have to see what CSM say! Expect they'll
use some technical jargon to explain that!


"Heli Genius" <I_know_all@notreal.com> wrote in message
news:4%v6a.429$e_1.105@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> In my utterly expert, genius opinion, it sounds like it may be fucked.
>
> H.G.
>
>
> "Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Gja6a.3270$Ax1.211@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Group
> >
> > A question, my 2 month old CSM200HLG has developed a problem, but has
> anyone
> > else experienced it?
> >
> > Basically the HH function ceases to operate, but he "rudder" servo can
> still
> > be operated from the TX.
> >
> > Moving the airframe side-to-side does not induce a negative response
from
> > the gyro. Anyone think of a reason why this failure may have happened.
> >
> > Will be popping the unit back to CSM for repair - but just wanted to
know
> > if/what would cause this.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
>
>

Beav
Feb 24, 2003, 08:42 PM
"Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Wiw6a.123$Wc2.25@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> That was my thought also! Will have to see what CSM say! Expect they'll
> use some technical jargon to explain that!

Yep, they'll tell you that TECHNICALLY, it's fucked:-) Then they'll fix it
or swap it.


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

Leech Meister
Feb 25, 2003, 05:32 AM
Unless of course the gain has somehow ben set to zero

:D


"Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
news:mdz6a.3561$EN3.28704@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Wiw6a.123$Wc2.25@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > That was my thought also! Will have to see what CSM say! Expect
they'll
> > use some technical jargon to explain that!
>
> Yep, they'll tell you that TECHNICALLY, it's fucked:-) Then they'll fix it
> or swap it.
>
>
> --
> Beav
>
>
> Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
> (with the obvious changes)
>
> Beavisland now lives at
> www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
>
>

Kevin
Feb 25, 2003, 01:02 PM
Fortuantely the problem is there no matter what the gain setting is!


"Leech Meister" <mindyourown@go.fu.ck.off> wrote in message
news:nxH6a.1053$WI6.805@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Unless of course the gain has somehow ben set to zero
>
> :D
>
>
> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
> news:mdz6a.3561$EN3.28704@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:Wiw6a.123$Wc2.25@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > > That was my thought also! Will have to see what CSM say! Expect
> they'll
> > > use some technical jargon to explain that!
> >
> > Yep, they'll tell you that TECHNICALLY, it's fucked:-) Then they'll fix
it
> > or swap it.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Beav
> >
> >
> > Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot
com"
> > (with the obvious changes)
> >
> > Beavisland now lives at
> > www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
> >
> >
>
>

Alan Rait
Feb 25, 2003, 01:23 PM
To add to the thread, I've just returned my CSM 200 as well! It's only had
three fights was VERY twitchy and made the tail feel uncomfortably loose.
The gain had to be below 50% (otherwise it hunted like a hound dawg) and the
ATVs were reduced to about 50%. (CSM suggest about 60-65%). On Sunday I
strapped the heli, LOGO 10 to the table, took the blades off and sparked her
up.

First off, I noticed with the gyro plugged in there was a twitch on the left
roll servo, this was BEFORE I'd connected the flight pack BTW. When the
flight pack was connected and the whirly bits were going round, every three
seconds or so the tail gave a huge twitch, after a while, the swash was
moving in tune with the tail twitch. ODD!

Then I disconnected the gyro and tried again. This time NO twitch on the
roll servo and the tail was dead steady at all collective positions. Skyline
models are checking it out in the morning and either returning it 'cos I'm a
pratt and missed something obvious, or replacing it.

Will let you know

--
Alan

alanDOTrait@btopenworld.com
Replace the DOT to reply

http://heliweb.users.btopenworld.com/



"Leech Meister" <mindyourown@go.fu.ck.off> wrote in message
news:nxH6a.1053$WI6.805@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Unless of course the gain has somehow ben set to zero
>
> :D
>
>
> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
> news:mdz6a.3561$EN3.28704@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Kevin" <kevin.steed@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:Wiw6a.123$Wc2.25@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > > That was my thought also! Will have to see what CSM say! Expect
> they'll
> > > use some technical jargon to explain that!
> >
> > Yep, they'll tell you that TECHNICALLY, it's fucked:-) Then they'll fix
it
> > or swap it.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Beav
> >
> >
> > Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot
com"
> > (with the obvious changes)
> >
> > Beavisland now lives at
> > www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
> >
> >
>
>

Andrew Duncan
Feb 25, 2003, 03:32 PM
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Rait"
<alanDOTrait@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Just a thought - the Schultze instruction (18.46K esc) say to use a
graphite spray on the tail rotor drive belt. The graphite particles
are conductive, and should dissipate any static build up. My logo
started to glitch more and more after about 5-6 flights, so I,ve
ordered the recomended Graphit 33 spray from electrovalue today. Will
report later on the result.

I agree about the CSM200. The gain needs to be well under 50%, and the
tail is certainly not locked. This surprises me , as the Logo 10 is
the smoothest heli I,ve ever had.

a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk
Unscrew NUT to reply
>To add to the thread, I've just returned my CSM 200 as well! It's only had
>three fights was VERY twitchy and made the tail feel uncomfortably loose.
>The gain had to be below 50% (otherwise it hunted like a hound dawg) and the
>ATVs were reduced to about 50%. (CSM suggest about 60-65%). On Sunday I
>strapped the heli, LOGO 10 to the table, took the blades off and sparked her
>up.
>
>First off, I noticed with the gyro plugged in there was a twitch on the left
>roll servo, this was BEFORE I'd connected the flight pack BTW. When the
>flight pack was connected and the whirly bits were going round, every three
>seconds or so the tail gave a huge twitch, after a while, the swash was
>moving in tune with the tail twitch. ODD!
>
>Then I disconnected the gyro and tried again. This time NO twitch on the
>roll servo and the tail was dead steady at all collective positions. Skyline
>models are checking it out in the morning and either returning it 'cos I'm a
>pratt and missed something obvious, or replacing it.
>
>Will let you know

Andrew Duncan
Feb 26, 2003, 12:32 PM
Graphit 33 spray arrived today. Ran the motor as slow as possible with
blades off, and sprayed the belt around the front drive pulley area
for several seconds. this should have coated the belt inside and out
with graphite particles.
On the lawn and into the hover - twitched a bit for 30 seconds
or so, then steady. no more glitching!!
The tail still dithers a bit in the hover with CSM gyro, maybe
because it's a Hitec HS81 servo on tail and only doing about 1300 rpm.
Turning the gain down to 25-30% helped the wandering, as did
putting the rpm up to about 1500.
As a test I flew sideways into wind. The tail held solidly,
but when I stopped, it turned slightly into wind.I think a better tail
servo would help a lot.
How have you got on with Skyline/CSM?

a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk
Unscrew NUT to reply

>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Rait"
><alanDOTrait@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>Just a thought - the Schultze instruction (18.46K esc) say to use a
>graphite spray on the tail rotor drive belt. The graphite particles
>are conductive, and should dissipate any static build up. My logo
>started to glitch more and more after about 5-6 flights, so I,ve
>ordered the recomended Graphit 33 spray from electrovalue today. Will
>report later on the result.
>
>I agree about the CSM200. The gain needs to be well under 50%, and the
>tail is certainly not locked. This surprises me , as the Logo 10 is
>the smoothest heli I,ve ever had.
>
>a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk
>Unscrew NUT to reply
>>To add to the thread, I've just returned my CSM 200 as well! It's only had
>>three fights was VERY twitchy and made the tail feel uncomfortably loose.
>>The gain had to be below 50% (otherwise it hunted like a hound dawg) and the
>>ATVs were reduced to about 50%. (CSM suggest about 60-65%). On Sunday I
>>strapped the heli, LOGO 10 to the table, took the blades off and sparked her
>>up.
>>
>>First off, I noticed with the gyro plugged in there was a twitch on the left
>>roll servo, this was BEFORE I'd connected the flight pack BTW. When the
>>flight pack was connected and the whirly bits were going round, every three
>>seconds or so the tail gave a huge twitch, after a while, the swash was
>>moving in tune with the tail twitch. ODD!
>>
>>Then I disconnected the gyro and tried again. This time NO twitch on the
>>roll servo and the tail was dead steady at all collective positions. Skyline
>>models are checking it out in the morning and either returning it 'cos I'm a
>>pratt and missed something obvious, or replacing it.
>>
>>Will let you know

Alan Rait
Feb 26, 2003, 02:12 PM
Gyro did NOT arrive at Skyline this AM, have to sack the secretary, she
missed the 5:30 post Monday night. Unforgivable.

I'm using Hitec 85 BB servos, same as the MHW build in the Jan 2003 edition
where Russ Deakin said he was impressed with the tail rotor assembly and the
way the tail flew. He ALSO used the CSM 200.

Odd

--
Alan

alanDOTrait@btopenworld.com
Replace the DOT to reply

http://heliweb.users.btopenworld.com/

"Andrew Duncan" <a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eftp5vg6167ca4iovn2aj6ooorjhk1jrpl@4ax.com...
> Graphit 33 spray arrived today. Ran the motor as slow as possible with
> blades off, and sprayed the belt around the front drive pulley area
> for several seconds. this should have coated the belt inside and out
> with graphite particles.
> On the lawn and into the hover - twitched a bit for 30 seconds
> or so, then steady. no more glitching!!
> The tail still dithers a bit in the hover with CSM gyro, maybe
> because it's a Hitec HS81 servo on tail and only doing about 1300 rpm.
> Turning the gain down to 25-30% helped the wandering, as did
> putting the rpm up to about 1500.
> As a test I flew sideways into wind. The tail held solidly,
> but when I stopped, it turned slightly into wind.I think a better tail
> servo would help a lot.
> How have you got on with Skyline/CSM?
>
> a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk
> Unscrew NUT to reply
>
> >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Rait"
> ><alanDOTrait@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >Just a thought - the Schultze instruction (18.46K esc) say to use a
> >graphite spray on the tail rotor drive belt. The graphite particles
> >are conductive, and should dissipate any static build up. My logo
> >started to glitch more and more after about 5-6 flights, so I,ve
> >ordered the recomended Graphit 33 spray from electrovalue today. Will
> >report later on the result.
> >
> >I agree about the CSM200. The gain needs to be well under 50%, and the
> >tail is certainly not locked. This surprises me , as the Logo 10 is
> >the smoothest heli I,ve ever had.
> >
> >a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk
> >Unscrew NUT to reply
> >>To add to the thread, I've just returned my CSM 200 as well! It's only
had
> >>three fights was VERY twitchy and made the tail feel uncomfortably
loose.
> >>The gain had to be below 50% (otherwise it hunted like a hound dawg) and
the
> >>ATVs were reduced to about 50%. (CSM suggest about 60-65%). On Sunday I
> >>strapped the heli, LOGO 10 to the table, took the blades off and sparked
her
> >>up.
> >>
> >>First off, I noticed with the gyro plugged in there was a twitch on the
left
> >>roll servo, this was BEFORE I'd connected the flight pack BTW. When the
> >>flight pack was connected and the whirly bits were going round, every
three
> >>seconds or so the tail gave a huge twitch, after a while, the swash was
> >>moving in tune with the tail twitch. ODD!
> >>
> >>Then I disconnected the gyro and tried again. This time NO twitch on the
> >>roll servo and the tail was dead steady at all collective positions.
Skyline
> >>models are checking it out in the morning and either returning it 'cos
I'm a
> >>pratt and missed something obvious, or replacing it.
> >>
> >>Will let you know
>

wavey
Feb 27, 2003, 01:32 AM
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:23:07 +0000
Andrew Duncan <a.duncanNUT@helicop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> The tail still dithers a bit in the hover with CSM gyro, maybe
> because it's a Hitec HS81 servo on tail and only doing about 1300 rpm.
> Turning the gain down to 25-30% helped the wandering, as did
> putting the rpm up to about 1500.

I'm flying a csm200hlg in a shuttle with a hitec hs5925mg and the quickuk pushrod thingy.
With lower rotor speed the tail did dither a fair bit. Recently i've been able to measure rotor rpm and setup 1500rpm - things are a lot more locked now. Gain must be somewhere between 50-70% although its hard to tell exactly with the fiddly pot adjuster