CamLight System's CC-400 Programmable Electronic Load for discharging

[JohnMuchow]

CamLight Systems is proud to announce our CC-400 Programmable Electronic Load for the discharging of any cell/pack chemistry.

http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-Front.jpg

Note: All images omit the "wall-wart" power supply and cell/pack wiring.

The CC-400 is not a discharger, it's a load that you use to extend the capabilities of other devices to discharge your cells and packs over a wide range of current settings. It offers 3 modes of operation:
1) CC Mode: constant-current discharge at one setting.
2) Burst Mode: alternating discharge between two current settings (with independent timing), typically one is the "background" level and the other is the "burst" level.
3) Throttle Mode: variable-current discharge based on an external connection to any device that outputs a standard servo/ESC signal.

The CC-400 can operate alone, with any logger/wattmeter that offers an servo/ESC output, or under control of an analyzer/discharger such as the West Mountain Radio CBA II (“CBA”). Using a CBA to control the CC-400 offers an easy way to increase the CBA's power handling. The CC-400 automatically starts and stops when the CBA does and offers both the CC Mode and Burst Mode of operation. Just pass one of the CBA's battery leads thru the CC-400's current sensor, run the CBA at 1A or higher, and the CC-400 is now under CBA control. There are no electrical connections between them other than their connections to the battery and no modifications to make to your CBA.

http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-with-CBA.jpg

Using the CC-400 allows you to operate your CBA at a much lower power level and temperature but still use its software to plot and store cell/pack test results. In addition, having only 1A pass through the CBA’s leads means that the voltage drop along the leads is minimal and detection of the cell’s/packs’ actual voltage will be more accurate. The CBA’s software display will not take into account the addition of the CC-400, but the data you can export from the CBA will be accurate and can be easily managed with Microsoft Excel.

The CC-400's twin terminal blocks allow easy paralleling of multiple CC-400's to increase the power handling of your logger or CBA to any level. Currently, using six CC-400's, our in-house test load operates at 2400W, up to 600A. With alternate wiring, it can easily operate at up to 900A. Or, if not paralleling CC-400’s, you can have two different sets of battery connections. For example, one set of 12AWG wires with Dean’s or PowerPole connectors and another set with bare-end 4AWG wires to clamp directly to a cell.

http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-2-units-with-CBA.jpg

http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-5-units-with-CBA(b).jpg

The CC-400 is the first in a line of products being developed by CamLight Systems to increase the power handling of existing analyzers, dischargers and loggers. We are building a small batch of twenty CC-400's to test the market and gather feedback on the features our customers want for the other products in this line. Currently, future products in this line will include an 800W version (CC-800) and a controller to allow easy programming of multiple CC-400’s or CC-800’s. We anticipate that these will be ready by early next year.

CC-400 Retail Price: US$389.00 + shipping.

CC-400 Basic Specifications:
- Current: 1A-150A for 2V-60V cells/packs, dropping to 100A max. at 0.9V.
- Voltage: 0.5V-60V
- Power: 400W continuous at 30C ambient, 500W for 15 seconds. Allows for 100A discharging of a Li cell.***
- Basic Accuracy: From 1A-20A, +/-35mA, from 21A-150A, +/-1%, typically better than +/-0.6%.
- Size: 6.75"W x 4.25"D x 5.75"H.
- Weight: 33 ounces.
- Battery Connections: Twin, paralleled, 2-pole 4AWG-16AWG terminal blocks. Either can be used at any time.
- Powered by an external "wall-wart", 100V-240V, 50Hz-60Hz, US twin-blade plug.
- Modes of Operation: Constant-current discharge, alternating discharge between 2 values, ESC/servo signal controlled current discharge.

***A jumper-enabled override is available to bring the rating up to 500W continuous, 600W for 5 seconds, but this voids the warranty as it lets the MOSFETs operate at up to their maximum rated temperature. This is not advisable for continuous operation, but if you typically test cells/packs at very high current levels that drop the voltage of the cell/pack quickly, the override allows you to start at a much higher power level.

The CC-400 has been undergoing beta-testing for several weeks now and the feedback of the testers has been incredible. Thanks to them, we have added several new features beyond those originally envisioned and we are very grateful for all the help they've given us in making the CC-400 such a useful product. Before that, our in-house test units underwent several thousand hours of operation at their rated maximum power levels and temperatures with zero failures. We feel strongly about the reliability of our products and don’t stretch their ratings. Even at full power, the CC-400 won’t run its components any hotter than the temperature recommended for “high reliability” applications. One of our beta-testers even requested that we remove the power limits for his unit and he has been successfully operating it at peaks up to 700W!!

We can currently handle PayPal payments, personal checks or money orders. We are in the process of adding dealers for this new line and the ability to accept credit cards at our web site for online ordering, but it will be a bit longer before we can get that done. Finishing the first batch is our top priority.

You can download the User's Guide for the CC-400 here: http://www.camlight.com/techinfo/Camlight_CC-400_UserGuide.pdf

If you are interested in purchasing a CC-400, or have any questions, please feel free to contact me at (212) 579-1901 in New York City. Or, you can reply to this post or send me a PM, and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Thank you for your interest in our products!

John Muchow
Project Director
CamLight Systems
http://www.camlight.com

[JohnMuchow]

Here's some more info to answer some of the questions we've been receiving...

Can I power the CC-400 with a battery pack?
It can be done but the range of acceptable voltages is small. The wall wart is a high-quality (i.e., low noise and well-regulated) 15V unit, rated at 1.2A. The CC-400 draws about 800mA when the fan is on and just a few mA when the fan is off. The battery pack must NEVER drop below 14.5V and must NEVER rise above 17V. If your battery pack can deliver that, either alone or with an external voltage regulator, you can use it to power the CC-400. Be aware that operation of the CC-400 can be unpredictable if the battery pack voltage drops below 14.5V. We do not recommend allowing the voltage to drop that far and cannot be responsible for any damage to the CC-400 or the battery pack that might occur.


Can I use less than 1A to "activate" the CC-400?
Yes, as everydayflyer mentions in his post below, you can loop the wire thru the CC-400's current sensor more than once. Each time you pass it thru (after the first time) lowers the current needed to activate the CC-400 by about 1/2. Therefore, 1 pass = 1A, 2 passes = 0.5A, 3 passes - 0.3A-O.25A.


How do I change the current setting or mode?
The discharge current setting is made via three rotary DIP switches on the front of the CC-400. The current can be set from 001A-150A. Settings above 150 (2XX, 3XX, etc., where X = don't care) are used for changing modes, calibrating the throttle control mode and programming the burst current timing and values.

In the lower left, in its mounting clamps, is the "CC-400 Programming Stick". :)
This device was created by everydayflyer (Charles) to make adjusting the current levels easier and a bunch were graciously donated by him for the first batch of CC-400's. It makes a BIG difference in how easy it is to change the settings...thanks Charles!!

You can also see the 10-pin Control connector which is used to select the maximum power level, via jumper, for the CC-400 (400W or 500W) and for connecting the ESC/servo output of a logger or other device being used to control the CC-400.
http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-current-switches.jpg


How do the CBA and CC-400 connect to the battery?
There are a large number of ways you can connect the CC-400, CBA or logger, and battery together. It's one of the great features of the CC-400's layout but it can be confusing at the start. Here are a couple of ideas. Note, the wire leading off the left of the photos is going to the CC-400's wall-wart power supply. The wire going off the right is the CBA's USB cable.

Sensing the pack voltage right at the pack itself for the most accurate readings. Notice the CBA's positive lead (red) passing through the CC-400's current sensor.
http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-sense-at-cell.jpg

Hi-amperage connection to the cell and sensing the cell voltage at the terminals for a more accurate reading.
http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-sense-at-cell-hi-amp.jpg

Hi-amperage connection to the cell and sensing the cell voltage at the load for simplfied wiring. With beefy wiring to the cell, the voltage drop along the leads is minimal and there is little loss in cell-voltage measuring accuracy.
http://www.camlight.com/products/images/CC-400-sense-at-load-hi-amp.jpg

More info to follow....

[everydayflyer]

Just pass one of the CBA's battery leads thru the CC-400's current sensor, run the CBA at 1A or higher, and the CC-400 is now under CBA control.

A trick I use is to pass the current sensing lead through the current sensor multi turns to reduce the require load. I use three loops (pass troughs) of 12 ga. which reduces the require current level to approx. 0.3amp.

Another trick is to use a power source(battery) , load (light bulb) and a switch to generate the turn on signal.


Charles

[supi7]

John,

you definitely got my attention,

I want to be able to take 5000mAh 5S packs and be able to discharge them at 20C continuous.





how does the CBA communicate with the loads, to graph out accurately?
I dont understand how the CBA only draws 1A and still manages to plot correctly with only the discharge wire connected?

and how do multiple loads communicate with each other? Do they have to be programmed separately for a test?


Dan
TrueRC

[JohnMuchow]

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your interest!

A 5S Li pack at 20C? Depending on the cell, that's about a 1800W to 2100W starting power level. That we can do. :)

I only briefly touched on how the CBA handles the data in my original post. There is no communication between the CBA and the CC-400 load. Using the standard CBA II software, you must export the data to Excel and add the additional current into the data there (however the time and voltage level data is accurate as is). Easy to do, but definitely an extra step in the process. However, using the CBA 10x Amplifier software, you can "trick" it into displaying accurate data. For example, for a 30A discharge, set the CBA to 3A and the CC-400 to 27A and you get accurate 10x graphing within the CBA 10x software. Our beta-testers are doing this very successfully. However, we haven't tested that to beyond the rating of two 10x Amplifiers (up to 1000W) so I don't know if the 10x software will let you do that for your application, which is significantly above 1000W. I suspect that the software would prevent >1000W discharges, as it does now for >150W discharges for a standard CBA discharge.

There's no communication between multiple CC-400 loads and each one must be independently set. Each unit has one of the CBA's (or logger's) battery leads passing thru its current sensor to tell it when to turn on/off. Each load is then set to the desired current level, independently. In your 5S, Li-pack, application perhaps each of the five CC-400's would be set to 20A. This would result in a starting power level of 3.6V x 5cells x 20A = 360W to 4.2V x 5 cells x 20A = 420W for each load.

Under development now is a controller that can make this multiple-load current setting process a lot easier. But it only take a few seconds to set the current level on the CC-400's. By keeping one or more CC-400's at a "base level", perhaps 60A, only one or two other units need to have their discharge current levels changed to match the requirements for the test. This is how we do it here at CamLight.

As envisioned now, the controller will handle only up to four CC-400's at a time. If most of our multiple-load customers typically use more than four loads at a time, i.e., discharges >1600W, we can certainly modify the design to handle any number of loads.

John

[Edit] Another option is to use a logger to accurately record the data for the discharge. You can still use the CBA to start/stop the discharge or use a logger with an ESC/servo signal output such as the MHW unit to control the discharge current. Or, if you have a logger without an ESC output, use the CBA to start/stop and the logger to record.

[sjslhill]

FYI, we have several of John's products, they all work as advertised!

Sarah Hill
Robotic Power Solutions

[BEC]

My goodness, John, that's quite a device. I should have expected nothing less.

Now that MHW is gone (so I gather) someone needs to get Jeff Little to add a voltage cutoff feature to the Medusa PA Pro's ESC driving software so it can control this device....

[JohnMuchow]

Thanks Bernard! :)
Other products in the line will be following as soon as we can get this batch finished. No matter what we get done, the list never seems to get any shorter!

John

[kgfly]

Now that MHW is gone (so I gather) someone needs to get Jeff Little to add a voltage cutoff feature to the Medusa PA Pro's ESC driving software so it can control this device....Indeed! I have been asking Medusa for a number of enhancements, including that one, for exactly this kind of application.

[everydayflyer]

And I have made the same request of Bill at Eagle Tree. Perhaps someone will come through for us. Sure hated to see Mile High close up shop as they had the best battery test function of any logger that I am aware of. Still find it had to believe that MHW and BNB both closed shop this year.


<Edit> Perhaps Hyperion may have such desired feactures someday but they sure seem to have issues with deadlines.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10556434&postcount=320

Charles

[BEC]

Yeah, why not - let's see who can get there first. I thought of Medusa first because the Power Analyzer Pro already can drive an ESC through a predefined pattern and there is a "fault" conditional for an ESC waveform that at least in theory could be used to say "stop when the voltage falls below X". A playback function of an Oracle log would be the final piece.

I need to experiment with the fault stuff to see how well that works. I've never used before.

[gulio]

I'm adding up total currents. Maximums (whichever comes first)

400 watts with a lipo = 120-150 amps
100 watts with the cba = 25-35 amps

They are added together so one might be able to do a single lipo cell at 150-200 watts if the jumper is used and the voltage doesn't hold very well. Do I have that right?

[kgfly]

- Power: 400W continuous at 30C ambient, 500W for 15 seconds. Allows for 100A discharging of a Li cell.***So the CC-400 alone will discharge a single LiPo cell at 100A = 350W->250W. You can probably get another 20A = ~60W out of the CBA as well. So depending on how the cell holds up your total load at about 120A would mean something in the range of 420W to 300W.

[gulio]

My figures are expecting 3-3.5 volts (not very good for a cell) maybe realistic, maybe not. 100 amps + to start out with.

[JohnMuchow]

For the CC-400 (and the CBA), the starting power levels will guide a lot of what they are capable of. Assuming a 4.2V starting voltage on the cell, the CC-400 will give you 500W / 4.2V = 119A for 15 seconds. The CBA will give 150W / 4.2V = 35.7A until it overheats. Together, you can get about 150A+ for a few seconds.

But, that cells' voltage better drop to 3.35V or less for the CC-400, to drop to 400W, and 3.10V or less (assuming Frigi-Mod Kit modified) for the CBA, to drop to 110W (max recommended power for Frigi-Mod CBA), within a few seconds. I think that 150A is doable but is not recommended. You're flirting with the absolute maximum ratings for both units and that's never advised. :)

But, assuming you don't want to purchase a second CC-400, 120A should be just fine for a single-cell Li-Po. That's a 420W start for the CC-400 at 100A and a 84W start at 20A for the Frigi-Mod CBA...no problem as I'm pretty sure that any Li-Po cell being discharged at 100A will drop to 4.0V within that time at a 100A discharge.

But, with a pair of CC-400's, you can easily do 200A with everything running just fine. :D

John

[JohnMuchow]

Due to a large order we just received, we are able to produce the next batch of CC-400's at a lower price.
We have decided to pass this lower price on to buyers of the first batch of CC-400's and are contacting all owners. We didn't think it was fair to not give the first buyers of our new electronic load the discount too. :)

CC-400 Retail Price is now US$389.00 + shipping

The CC-400 User's Guide is also available online:
http://www.camlight.com/techinfo/Camlight_CC-400_UserGuide.pdf

The large order is for parts to produce a 20kW load at 1,000 amps...yup, 20,000 watts!
To reduce the amount of wiring involved to connect the loads, we'll be designing new circuit boards that will hold five CC-400's per board, for a total of 2,000W. Five of these boards will be arrayed in a line down either side of copper bus bars, for a total of ten 2,000W units.

Now, that's a load! And it shows the capability of the CC-400's design to be easily scaled up to very high power levels.

If you have a need for an electronic load that the CC-400 doesn't fit, give us a call. We'll be happy to modify it to fit your needs or design an entirely new device. We have created dozens of semi-custom and fully-custom discharger and electronic load solutions for our clients, including ruggedized units for the US Army and 100% RoHS-compliant devices.

Thanks!
John

[JohnMuchow]

I've updated the User Guide for the CC-400 to better explain that when using CC-400's with a CBA, the Volts vs Minutes graph option for a test (discharge) is accurate when using any number of CC-400's. If using the Pro Upgrade, it's easiest to set the Amplifier setting to No Amplifier. But, if you're exporting the data for a Minutes test, you must correct the discharge current data.

Both the Volts vs. WattHrs and Volts vs. AmpHrs tests can be accurately plotted when using one or two CC-400's. If you're using more than two CC-400's for a discharge, the data must be exported to Excel to correct the discharge current info. This is because the CBA software can only be set to handle the discharge current from one or two Amplifiers. In addition, for these two tests, you're limited to multiples of 10A for correct data plotting (e.g., 10A, 20A, 30A, etc.). See the User's Guide for more information.

For any of the tests, the voltage and time data is correct no matter how many CC-400's you use.

Updated User's Guide:
http://www.camlight.com/techinfo/Camlight_CC-400_UserGuide.pdf

John

[jfetter]

Why is the CC-400 not listed on the Camlight web site?

Jack

[JohnMuchow]

Hi Jack,

The CC-400 was produced in lower quantities that we typically do to test the market for a high-power, affordable, electronic load. Because of that, we didn't want to have a very large number of orders that would swamp us as we gathered feedback from CC-400 users and considered what changes might be made for a follow-on product. Even doing that, we still needed to assemble a second batch to meet demand. :)

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or via email at info at camlight dot com

[jfetter]

Hi Jack,

The CC-400 was produced in lower quantities that we typically do to test the market for a high-power, affordable, electronic load. Because of that, we didn't want to have a very large number of orders that would swamp us as we gathered feedback from CC-400 users and considered what changes might be made for a follow-on product. Even doing that, we still needed to assemble a second batch to meet demand. :)

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or via email at info at camlight dot com

Will there be a follow up product, what if I want a couple of units?

Jack

[JohnMuchow]

There will be a new 800W unit based on the existing unit, the CC-800. It will have the same feature set but the current-setting switches will be moved to the left end of the unit to allow for easier current-setting changing when multiple units are paralleled and connected close to each other. And an 800W, 250A continuous rating too.

But, this unit will not be ready for sale for a few months as I'm currently working on a couple of battery management and smart charger systems for two clients. Paying customers always get priority over new product development. :D

I do have seven CC-400's in stock at the original $389.00 price though.

[jfetter]

There will be a new 800W unit based on the existing unit, the CC-800.

Estimated price?

Jack

[JohnMuchow]

Too early to say.
It will certainly cost less, in $$/watt, than the CC-400. But not by a lot. Since only a few parts are not used twice in the CC-800 (vs. two CC-400's), and the assembly costs are essentially the same for a CC-800 vs. two CC-400's, there's not a lot of room to drop the price.

The CC-800 is primarily for users setting up multi-kilowatt loads. The significantly reduced wiring required, and smaller size, for such loads result in big savings in both wiring and terminal block cost and the space needed for the loads.

John