Dogwood's Swift and Approach Apache build

[Dogwoodtheone]

Well I held out as long as I could when all the other ECO fliers defected to the Swift camp :p then came a deal I couldn't say no to :rolleyes:

Swift should be arriving this Wednesday, even though it is a used heli it is still a build as it was disassembled for easier and better shipping :cool:

I currently don't have a battery pack that is appropriate for so I ordered a series cable to tests it a bit with 2 3s packs.

I currently plan on using A123's, thinking a 7s setup would mimic the 6s it was flown on before, since I don't do 3d and plan on making this a scale bird it should be good enough.

But since the A123s tend to come in a nice convenient 10 pack I can always go larger if need be ;)

It's coming with everything except the RX and gyro, I'll just "borrow" those from my ECO since I stripped the main gear on it recently and haven't changed it yet.

[johnm1019]

Go 8S. Just trust me. I converted a swift from a 6s lipo and 7s just isn't the same. I had to jump to eight.

[Cloud Cruiser]

Hi, I'm gonna use a123's on my new swift as well. I'll be using 10s and 12s a123's. I have an HK-4025 740 kv Scorpion and will be using a CC HV-85 esc. I'll use a BEC for my reciever power. I still have a couple of NIP DC9360's if your interested. I've harvested 36 cells already and may not need them. I'll be using 550 g-3 carbons.

Wasn't your Swift originally built by helitaiwan963?

Robert

[Spidious]

I think that is GOOBERSEPTEMBER who he bought it from.
About two minutes before I saw it advertised ! :mad: :rolleyes: :D

[jamesppp]

I think that is GOOBERSEPTEMBER who he bought it from.
About two minutes before I saw it advertised ! :mad: :rolleyes: :D


I think that Gooberseptember bought it from Helitaiwan. Didnt helitaiwan have a raptor head assembly on it at one time?

[Dogwoodtheone]

Hi, I'm gonna use a123's on my new swift as well. I'll be using 10s and 12s a123's. I have an HK-4025 740 kv Scorpion and will be using a CC HV-85 esc. I'll use a BEC for my reciever power. I still have a couple of NIP DC9360's if your interested. I've harvested 36 cells already and may not need them. I'll be using 550 g-3 carbons.

Wasn't your Swift originally built by helitaiwan963?

Robert

I'd love to take 'em off your hands, but I think I've pushed my luck with the wife as far as I dare this month, if you still have them next month let me know :D

[Fred Bronk]

Go 8S. Just trust me. I converted a swift from a 6s lipo and 7s just isn't the same. I had to jump to eight.

Maybe, but he just wants to cruise around. He might do better even staying at 6s and going 2p for the longer flights.

Keeping the HS to around 18-1900 and you will be more than happy. Even mild 3D is OK there.

FB

[Dogwoodtheone]

I think that is GOOBERSEPTEMBER who he bought it from.
About two minutes before I saw it advertised ! :mad: :rolleyes: :D

hehe you snooze you loose :D

hmm, starting to get a bit of background history on this bird :)
keep it coming

[Dogwoodtheone]

Maybe, but he just wants to cruise around. He might do better even staying at 6s and going 2p for the longer flights.

Keeping the HS to around 18-1900 and you will be more than happy. Even mild 3D is OK there.

FB

thanks Fred, the extra flying time would be nice, and it will probably be easier to keep the head speed in the 18-1900 range (will be running with a neu 1907/1.5, which is around 915kv I believe )

[Fred Bronk]

The Neu 1907 is a great little motor and will still handle solid 3D with a light heli.

FB

[Dogwoodtheone]

any suggestions on gearing? I can't see a 6s2p being a "light" heli :)

[Cloud Cruiser]

hehe you snooze you loose :D

hmm, starting to get a bit of background history on this bird :)
keep it coming


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=893100&highlight=swift

Robert

[Fred Bronk]

any suggestions on gearing? I can't see a 6s2p being a "light" heli :)

9t with 550 blades.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Nice find Robert, thanks :cool:

Looks like only a few things have changed since helitaiwan963 sold it to gooberseptember earlier this year :)




9t with 550 blades.


thanks Fred, I will give that a shot

[Dogwoodtheone]

Pulled down most of the finless videos, hopefully I can watch them before the heli arrives and have the semblance of a clue on how it goes together :)

[Gadget01]

Dogwood- glad you finally made it! Was starting to wonder. Now we'll have to try and convince Simages to get on board too.

I think you'll find putting the Swift together is vastly easier than doing anything with the Eco, mainly because of the bigger hardware is just easier to see and handle. Little touches, like the way the tailboom is keyed to fit a notch in the tailbox is nice. Another nice touch is the flybar comes notched for the flybar arm setscrews.

It's nowhere near as delicate of a model either. It can take a lot of abuse and just shrug it off. I was afraid to learn autorotation landing with the Eco out of breakage fear. I'll autorotate my Swift any day now, especially in a good headwind.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your build.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Thanks Gadget, getting excited, can't wait for it to show up :)

[Greybird]

Everybody likes a good build thread... Dog, Can I add some pictures of my number 2 when I get it? Seems silly to have 2 new build threads going.

[Dogwoodtheone]

That would be cool greybird. feel free to add as many as you want.

[Greybird]

Dogwood, Isn't it the middle of the night where you are?

[Spidious]

I have the 9t pinion and 550mm fiberglass blades.
With the Castle ESC and link I can go from 1300-2300 rpm by just plugging in the controller to my computer.
Really long flight time at 1400 for scale flying :D
Extremely responsive flying at 2200 rpm ! :eek:

[Dogwoodtheone]

Dogwood, Isn't it the middle of the night where you are?

It sure was...... my dain is bramaged from lack of sleep :censored:

[Greybird]

Got it flying yet? ;)

[Dogwoodtheone]

I really don't like fedex ground :mad:

Gooberseptember was good enough to get it shipped out right away on the 9th, initial ETA was wed. the 15th, now its the 16th :mad:

7 days ! :censored: :censored: freaking post office can do better than that! :rolleyes:

sorry had to vent - jonesing for my new toy :D

[Greybird]

My 2nd one will be shipped tomorrow.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Hope it doesn't take 7 days to get there :eek: :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

It's here! :D :cool:

initial unpacking looks good, pictures to follow :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

I really like how the tail boom assembly is done, very modular and slick.

Gooberseptember did a real nice job bundling up the wires for a neat appearance, he also nicely labeled them so I wouldn't have to guess as to wha was what :cool:

First thing I noticed was the cyclic links where a bit tight, loosened them up a bit.

[Dogwoodtheone]

My 2nd one will be shipped tomorrow.

Got an ETA on it Greybird?

[Dogwoodtheone]

Head assembly was a bit tight as well, figured out that the bolts holding the washout where a bit snug, loosened them a bit - much smoother and easier to move :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

popped the head assembly on :)

[Greybird]

Hey, Looking good! Mine should be next tues, or wed. I may add all the aluminum to mine. I already own all the stuff anyway.

[Gadget01]

Hey, Looking good! Mine should be next tues, or wed. I may add all the aluminum to mine. I already own all the stuff anyway. Go for it, Greybird. If the bearings in the grips are notchy, or if you have to install them and they are next to impossible to get seated, I can size them for you- complimentary, shipping included.

[Dogwoodtheone]

She's got legs :D

man those skid are a pain to get on :censored:

[Dogwoodtheone]

well mechanically she's together, now to pull some electronics off the ECO :eek:

[Dogwoodtheone]

alright, pulled the electronics from the ECO

Got a AR7000, Gy401 and a eagle tree to keep an eye on things :cool:

I just hope the 401 works, got it in a trade and haven't tried it yet. :eek:

[Cloud Cruiser]

The rate your going, you'll fly that thing in the next 2 hours! ;)

Robert

[rotoraddict]

Starting to look pretty good :)

[Cloud Cruiser]

I crashed today while trying some inverted flight! Pilot error, poor collective skills while disorented! That sounds better than,,,"I messed up!" :eek:

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

I crashed today while trying some inverted flight! Pilot error, poor collective skills while disorented! That sounds better than,,,"I messed up!" :eek:

Robert

OUCH!! :( sorry to hear/see that :(

that one looks a bit expensive, that battier pack doesn't look too happy :censored:

on a more positive note :D I got the ar7000 and GY401 mounted.

watching the finless videos to make sure everthing is setup correctly - hoping to spin her up today :cool:

[Spidious]

Thats why I will stick to scale flying Up is Up.
I can do it on the simulator 3D, but I do not want to risk it in real life. Just do it on the simulator to increase my finger/eye coordination...

[Dogwoodtheone]

hey GrandRC has sale prices on a bunch of swift part, lots are out-of-stock but there are still a few good deals on things you might need (I got the last fly bar - $1.39 :D )

[Cloud Cruiser]

I've been getting a little bored with my standard buzzing around, so I decided to push myself alittle each time I fly. Today I pushed to much. I have alot of parts on hand and shouldn't have to order to much.

Your swift is coming along nicely! I saw my first ever, in person, nitri heli fly today. This guy pulled up while we were flying and had a Trex 600. It was very cool!

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

yep, the only way to move forward its to push it a bit :)

Glad to hear your down time will be minimal

[Dogwoodtheone]

well, trying to get the gyro setup, having some issues.

First time I plug it in and turned it on everything worked as expected.
Second time it just kept flashing, and seemed to be in rate mode.

Played around with the radio setting and finally figured out what was happening.

Seems the sense line wasn't/isn't seating well or came loose. I unplugged it and the gyro behaved the same way so I pulled the plug apart to check it, seemed OK, plugged it back in making sure it seated well and the gyro worked fine again.

fun fun

[Dogwoodtheone]

was hoping to have her in the air today, ain't going to happen.

The head needs a lot of setup, the linkage was off by a good bit and the servo arm on the elev. was too long, nice solid alum. job but too long.

Of course centuries choice of length made it hard to get the right length and my closest lhs is a craptastic chain store.

did find an arm long enough that I could drill a hole in the right place.

but then I manage to break a link :( so long store short - I'm fubar

[Heritic]

Thats why I will stick to scale flying Up is Up.
I can do it on the simulator 3D, but I do not want to risk it in real life. Just do it on the simulator to increase my finger/eye coordination...


Or as I am slowly ,doing upside down 450 size grass /hay field that is 4ft to5ft tall and if it go's wrong hit throttle hold.
A 24oz heli has MUCH less kinetic than a 5-8lb heli and NO damage.
For what it's worth
Heritc (2 x Swifts and a 3dX)

[Dogwoodtheone]

that's actually a good idea, assuming you can find a field.

[Dogwoodtheone]

well I tried to combine some uber bling with old school bling and just wasn't able to get the right length, so I said the heck with it and ordered a link set from heliproz south

guess I get to work on the guru z for a bit, time to take up the swift slack greybird :)

[Gadget01]

well I tried to combine some uber bling with old school bling and just wasn't able to get the right length, so I said the heck with it and ordered a link set from heliproz south Somehow, one of the head linkages went missing after my Swift's last too-close encounter with pavement. Luckily, my LHS had a package of Hirobo linkages and one of them worked out for what I needed. I tried 3mm linkages (swash to mixing lever) but they collide with the flybar cage too easily.

I had 2 nice flights yesterday afternoon- big loops and some inverted hovering. I feel a lot more comfortable pushing the boundaries of my flying with the Swift vs the Eco. It's easier to see in the air (perhaps in part because my Eco has that stealth Vader canopy) and if you do lose the battle with gravity, you're not as likely to do major damage- and then replacement parts are easier to get. I'll fly my Eco again.... one of these days.

[Dogwoodtheone]

found a bit more history on my Swift http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8623991#post8623991

seems it was originally owned by Torqeroll ->helitaiwan963 -> Gooberseptember -> DogWood :D

everybody should know their roots :)

seems very little has changed on it, except a few sets of landing gear :eek:

[simages]

Dogwood- glad you finally made it! Was starting to wonder. Now we'll have to try and convince Simages to get on board too.
I've been following all you collaborators and have certainly entertained the thought of joining the Swift club and have been on the hunt for a great deal while putting together my SJM Fleet. :rolleyes:

[Dogwoodtheone]

come on, drink the cool-aid, you know you want too :D

[jamesppp]

found a bit more history on my Swift http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8623991#post8623991

seems it was originally owned by Torqeroll ->helitaiwan963 -> Gooberseptember -> DogWood :D

everybody should know their roots :)

seems very little has changed on it, except a few sets of landing gear :eek:



Hey Dogwood,

If you find one of HeliTaiwans threads with a picture in it and scroll back 5 at a time on the pics, you can find some pics of your swift with, I believe a Raptor head on it if I remember correctly...

[Dogwoodtheone]

cool, thanks James, I'll do a bit of searching.....

[simages]

come on, drink the cool-aid, you know you want too :DSTOP IT!!!!:eek: But if you come across a deal..... let me know...:rolleyes:

[Dogwoodtheone]

well I did come across one screaming deal.... but I bought it myself :D

[jamesppp]

well I did come across one screaming deal.... but I bought it myself :D

Have you seen the video of Helitaiwans maiden flight with it yet?

[Dogwoodtheone]

not yet, haven't had as much time to go thread spelunking as I'd like

[Greybird]

Here is a picture after stripping Swift #2 down. It looks to be in very good shape. It was an ARF. Ball links are very tight. I am short one ele servo spacer. I am re-doing servo arms to match my other Swift. It also came with an 8 tooth pinion? I did not even know they existed. I will swap it for a 9 tooth. The tailboom holder also has hex heads instead of phillips. :D

[Cloud Cruiser]

Very nice! I like the blades.

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

Have you seen the video of Helitaiwans maiden flight with it yet?

Found it, was just farther along in Chris's first thread than I had gotten to yet.

I like the orange tail blades :cool:

[jamesppp]

Here is a picture after stripping Swift #2 down. It looks to be in very good shape. It was an ARF. Ball links are very tight. I am short one ele servo spacer. I am re-doing servo arms to match my other Swift. It also came with an 8 tooth pinion? I did not even know they existed. I will swap it for a 9 tooth. The tailboom holder also has hex heads instead of phillips. :D



Greybird, I had a Revco 8T pinion that I tried out with the 890kv motor I originally put in my Raptor 620. It was a good, 1piece pinion. ASW20rr used an 8t Century pinion in his Swift and it came apart on him.

I have now swapped out the 890kv motor with a 740kv motor and am starting with a 9t on it. I may end up with a 10t.

[Dogwoodtheone]

my ball links arrived from heliproz-south :)

with a bit of luck I might actually finish the head setup tonight.

[Greybird]

Today's progress. Servo's tested, and re- mounted, new servo wheels, new ele arm, aluminum upper bearing block, aluminum motor mount, new main shaft, and collar. The servo arms were pretty far off on the previous build. Ele servo was installed backwards. Heli must have been very hard to control.

[Greybird]

Another interesting find. All 4 bearings in the tail grips were notchy. Replaced with Align 3x8x3 bearings. 6 bucks. The bolts were also lengthened to tighten on the tail shaft. 14.52 mm, vs 14.00mm stock. This is very worthwhile in my opinion. Bolts held with only Locktite does not seem right.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Well I think I have my head all sorted out, equal pitch on both blades +10 -6

Saw your post Greybird, figured I'd better check mine as well, one side of the tail is notchy the other smooth. looks like I need to add tail bearings to the list of things to get. :rolleyes:

now to read the esc manual as I've never used a Schulze before. :confused:

If I can get it figured out I might be able to do a test hover tomorrow :D

[jamesppp]

my ball links arrived from heliproz-south :)

with a bit of luck I might actually finish the head setup tonight.



Dogwood, are you just replacing the links for good measure? That heli was in flying condition before the former owner disassembled it wasnt it.

You'll be ready to fly this weekend for sure it looks like.

Jimmy

[Dogwoodtheone]

I just needed to replace the link I broke, the links where all too tight on the balls so I did the old "squeeze" method and got carried away on one :(

Gs said it was, and for the most part I believe it was, although I think he started disassembling it because of a hard landing, one of the skids still had a piece of under carriage on it.

also there was some serious interaction going on in the cyclic, which might be why he wasn't happy enough with it to keep it.

Getting a pair of 3s 2200's charged up so i can at least track the blades and get a shakedown hover in.

[Spidious]

How the heck was the elevator installed backwards and was able to work at all ?

[Dogwoodtheone]

I think I have the Schulze figured out (mostly) but either way I'm just going to follow Fred's advice on setup (in his blog)
and KISS :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

HMMM, starting to think I might just get a pair of truerc 3s1p 4000mAH packs, gets me my 6 cells without the need for a new charger and should provide for a good long flight (well longish) a pair only costs $110 :)

[Dogwoodtheone]

STOP IT!!!!:eek: But if you come across a deal..... let me know...:rolleyes:

not the screaming deal, but he does keep dropping the price
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t391558p1/

you might try puttting in an offer :D

[Greybird]

How the heck was the elevator installed backwards and was able to work at all ?
The ele servo arm was 12.5mm.(should be 20mm) The cyclic servo arms were 20mm. (should be 25mm) It must have been a handful. Also, the swash follower thing was so tight, it had to bind the swash. Took quite a bit of filing to fix it. All ball links need to be sized. Makes you wonder about the ARF's.

[Dogwoodtheone]

ARF = always ready to fail :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

Spooled her up today :eek: :D

had a bit of "jello mold" shaking on spool-up, not as bad as I've seen on the ECO before so I just rode it out, things smoothed out as she spun up.

Saw 1850 RPM on the tach, 100% throttle, around zero pitch (maybe slightly negative)

tracking was off just a bit, decided to hover her anyway, did a quick and short hover, need to re-adjust my pitch curves a bit, but the tail seem to hold nicely and she felt fairly stable - so far so good

[Greybird]

HEY!!! Looks like a heli, instead of a pile of parts...What is that battery arrangement? Looks like a lot of wire.

[Greybird]

Soldered on some new bullets, New Deans. Set the head on to see how it will look. Waiting for the metal tail to do more building.

[Dogwoodtheone]

it's 2 3s1p 2200 packs in series, figured it would be adequate for initial setup

[Dogwoodtheone]

whats the align part number for the bearings you got for the tail?

[Greybird]

AGNH1156 Bearing 3x8x3(4) $6.49

[Dogwoodtheone]

Thanks Greybird.

got in another short setup hover, adjusted the tracking a bit then tried a hover.

I was able to hover the ECO quite easily in the front yard, no so with the swift, a lot more responsive (plus my flying skills are a bit rusty)

Moved out to the street (advantage of living on a cul-de-sac) and got in a nice hover, eagletree reports I was using about 435 watts on average for it.

:D

[Greybird]

I hate the pitch links on the Swift. This piece fits like shown, and everything lines up. I thought it was wasted 30 bucks, but, at least I can use half of it. Way better pitch links. I was also thinking of trying this Logo thrusted tail set-up. $30. The grips and everything look the same between the 2 heli's. Maybe I'll take one of my Logo and see if they are interchangable before ordering. Hmmm, I guess I will just order on my next ordering session, it could go on the Logo if it does not fit the Swift. DUH!

[jamesppp]

Thanks Greybird.

got in another short setup hover, adjusted the tracking a bit then tried a hover.

I was able to hover the ECO quite easily in the front yard, no so with the swift, a lot more responsive (plus my flying skills are a bit rusty)

Moved out to the street (advantage of living on a cul-de-sac) and got in a nice hover, eagletree reports I was using about 435 watts on average for it.

:D


Dogwood,

Dial in a little aileron and elevator expo to smooth it out and it will help..about 20% on Futaba works well for me.

Looks good.

Jimmy

[Spidious]

I have mine set at 30% on my DX7, and it makes it a lot smoother to hold a steady hover !

[Cloud Cruiser]

Congratulations DogWood, I hope you enjoy your Swift as much as I enjoy mine. GreyBird, Yours is looking great as well. Are you going to be using the 3rd bearing block or leave it as standard?

DogWood I got it and will ship Monday!! :cool:

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

Dogwood,

Dial in a little aileron and elevator expo to smooth it out and it will help..about 20% on Futaba works well for me.

Looks good.

Jimmy

thanks,

I had it set at 25% (DX7) I think I'll try spidious 30% and see how it goes.

Got a few more tweaks to make.

was also a bit windy :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

DogWood I got it and will ship Monday!! :cool:

Robert

Thanks Again Robert, time to go read up on making the packs :eek:

will have figure out what else I'll need to put it together :cool:

[Cloud Cruiser]

Here was my first attempt at battery building.
Seems to be OK! :D

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

Going to have to say that looks pretty good for a first crack :)

[Dogwoodtheone]

Going to plug a couple really good threads on building A123 packs by LBMiller5, yea you could find them with a search but I feel there well worth posting the link to :D

Before you can build, you much destroy or in this case take apart a DeWalt pack
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587606

then you can build
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599316

[Dogwoodtheone]

well so far me and the Swift aren't getting along all that well... :(

I was trying to tweak the setup and should have stopped when I noticed the right side servo wasn't centered when I'm sure it should have been.

ahh the joys of sleep deprivation :rolleyes:

what happened the next time I spooled her up was she yawed right pretty badly, panic ensued, cyclic was given, up and right (very quickly :D ) she went, throttle hold was hit (yea that reflex is getting programmed in :cool: )

and lucky into a tree and not my neighbors house she went.

destroyed one blade, bent the flybar, so far that seems to be it :cool:

[Cloud Cruiser]

Ouch!!!!

Today all I could do was watch Jimmy and Eddie fly. I enjoyed watching those guys and talking about the hobby. Man, I'm sorry about the crash, but it could have been alot worse, just look at my last crash pictures! :eek:


Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

thanks Robert,
Yea it could have been much worse, I'm not happy that it happened, but I'm not really upset thought either.

Really glad I scarfed up that last flybar from grandrc at a $1.38 :D

Debating whether or not I should spring for some new frames (these are the old non re-enforced ones)

Also thinking the Hitec digital servo programmer might come in handy - that will definitely have to wait :)

Oh Robert, what size shrink wrap did you use?

[Cloud Cruiser]

thanks Robert,
Yea it could have been much worse, I'm not happy that it happened, but I'm not really upset thought either.

Really glad I scarfed up that last flybar from grandrc at a $1.38 :D

Debating whether or not I should spring for some new frames (these are the old non re-enforced ones)

Also thinking the Hitec digital servo programmer might come in handy - that will definitely have to wait :)

Oh Robert, what size shrink wrap did you use?

126mm from:
https://www.tanicpacks.com

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

Thanks Robert, just ordered some :)

[Cloud Cruiser]

Thats where I got my taps as well. I've ordered quite a few of their straps, but I seem to break them when I crash. :o Oh well, the joys of RC Heli's!

Robert

[Dogwoodtheone]

got my taps from Ka-planes, a little cheaper, but then shipping was more

should have waited till you answered me :D

[Dogwoodtheone]

the governor setup for this Schultze is rather weird in a German kinda way. :confused:

They expect the throttle to be set to a slider in governor mode, and then you play games with it to get the desired head speed.

I think I will just set it to normal throttle operations and set my throttle curve.

it also bases its throttle position on the pulse timing width and I don't know about you but I usually leave my oscilloscopes at work :rolleyes:

and I don't see a timing graph in my DX-7's manual :rolleyes:

to top it off my servo's seem to center in a different spot each time I turn them on. :censored: :censored:

[Cloud Cruiser]

I use throttle curves, and it works good for me and the way I fly. The servos not centering the same each time, sounds like a nightmare! :eek:

Robert