257" B-36D Scratch Build 6 a turning and 4 a burning

[dag214]

Well,
This is the start of my thread on my B-36D project. I started the design 8 years ago with the intent of it be 256" with 6 gas engines, but after doing all the calcs I realized that the plane would weigh over 110 pounds because I would need 45 pounds of ballast to off-set the engines weight at the trialing edge of the wing. Now with electric motors I can build a 257" B-36D and hit about 51 pounds. I have drawn the entire plane in both 3D max, and AutoCAD so I can scale the drawings to any size I need. The plane will have 6 AXI 4130/20 Motors turning Zinger 3 blade 20" props, in testing I get about 5 minutes at full power and 12 at 65% cruise power. I have just got all of my plans printed out on my plotter to start cutting wood. The retracts are going to be Century Jet Models, Inc. and be Scale b-36 gears. I have been using Ecalc and it looks to be spot on with what I am seeing in testing.

Will try to update weekly or better.

Thanks, DAG

[Tim Farrar]

I'm here Dag, !!!!

This is going to be awsome !!!!

Seeya, Tim

[alchemique]

Subscribed!

You are crazy DAG! :)

[dag214]

Subscribed!

You are crazy DAG! :)

Yes I am, but you may be talking about me hitting the 51 pounds. I had a 178" B-29 with 4 4-stroke engines, the whole thing with fuel only weighed in at 41 pounds. 236" with electric should be do-able.

I have ordered the plywood for aircraft spruce and will start cutting next week.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

I'm here Dag, !!!!

This is going to be awsome !!!!

Seeya, Tim

Thanks Tim,
Just wondering, did you ever get your power back? Hope all is well.

DAG

[3Deranged]

The real one was nicknamed" Aluminum Overcast" ,this one will be " Balsa Overcast"! :)

[Wilian Amaral]

Here I am too!!!

Anxious to see this project flyin'

[dag214]

This may sound crazy, but because I have 99% of all the parts drawn, there will not be much guess work, I plan on having this plane in the air by June 2009, that’s if the boss (my wife) does not catch how much I am spending, batteries and motors are over 2.5k :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I will post more of the 3D renderings, what is vrey cool is every part I have drawn gets put into a 3D model then I build it in 3D, if the parts fit in 3D then they will fit when I cut the kit out of wood.

This is something very cool to me because I have wanted to build the B-36 for over 30 years, for the last 15 I have been getting drawings and photos, I even have this old control-line kit that was made in Japan (though I have never built it). And here I am now about a week from cutting wood.


Rock On!

DAG

[Sabrejock]

Would using a shaft from the motors to the T/E help with the awful prospect of so much ballast? A bearing at the rear and gimbal style motor mount at or ahead of max thickness would seem to be helpful. Tex.

[Tim Farrar]

Hi Dag, What do you think of Tex's idea ?

That might be a good way to think about doing your motors so you dont have a bunch of nose weight.

You may have your own ideas already though...

I got my power back a week or two ago now !!!! Thank God !!!

I dont remember for sure because I am already taking advantage of it !!!!
You dont miss it until you dont have it !!!

Thanks for asking !!
Seeya, Tim

[dag214]

Would using a shaft from the motors to the T/E help with the awful prospect of so much ballast? A bearing at the rear and gimbal style motor mount at or ahead of max thickness would seem to be helpful. Tex.

Tex,
That is a great idea, I have thought about it on gas power to get the weight at the front of the wing. My wing loading at this point will be about 26oz, that's at 52 pounds so the plane is going to fly great, however if I end up over 55 pounds I will have to look into this. What makes me not like the idea is keeping everything straight so I don't end up with vibration from the shaft and the connections. Do you know of any shafting that would work at about 14” in lenght and turn an 18-12 3 blade prop?

Attached is my weight and moment chart. You can see the motors are kind of close to the CG that the true off-set is about 2 pounds of ballast, the rest of the ballast is from the main-L-gear, H-stab and the V-stab.

Tim,
Glad you are back with us that have power. I will post more 3D rendering of the nose, and hopefully show you some parts cut out by Monday.

Thanks all, DAG

[dag214]

Welllll,
After thinking more about what Tex said about shafting the motors I think it is 110% the way to go. It is funny how you get tunnel vision after designing a plane for a bunch of years. The weight savings will be about 4.5 pounds taking my ballast down a ton. I had a design for shafting G-26 engines and these electrics can't be any harder than those.

Attached is the start of the re-design of the nacelles.

This site is cool because I get different eyes looking at my designs and builds.

Thanks, DAG

[Sabrejock]

DAG, might I suggest that you look at the shaft/prop as a unit and connecting with a 1:1 (or whatever) ratio gearing or belt drive. I think this would make alignment and vibration conrol easier. Tex.

[dag214]

DAG, might I suggest that you look at the shaft/prop as a unit and connecting with a 1:1 (or whatever) ratio gearing or belt drive. I think this would make alignment and vibration conrol easier. Tex.

Tex,
I tested a G-26 with soft mounts and a direct shaft on a prop hub I made myself. It had a 6061 T6 1/2" shaft. The shaft had 3 bearings and was 26" long. The soft mounts allowed the engine not to bind on the bearings. It kept things very light. With this layout, shaft, bearings, and extra bearing bulkheads I am saving 2.65 pounds of ballast. The G-26 did shake a bunch, but I think I will make a test nacelle and see what happens.

Thanks, DAG

[AmpAce]

Dag, I was having the same thoughts as Tex about gearing the prop drive down some with a belt drive. You could turn the scale props with a smaller motor, and probably save some more weight, overall. The belt drive system should also be easier to keep straight, and vibration free, since your connection to the prop shaft would be via a belt. You could just have a straight shaft running through the nacelle, with a bearing at each end, and probably one near the drive sprocket, if it doesn't end up near the end of the shaft. This kind of a system would give you more flexibility as to the size and type of motors you use. I've also heard that a belt drive system for electrics makes a much more realistic sound than a direct drive motor. I've never heard one, though.

There is a wealth of information available from SDP-SI I sent for their free catalogs, and was very pleased with the information and products they contain. Here's a link to their website: http://www.sdp-si.com/

What a magnificant project you have taken on! I remember as a kid, just after WW II, seeing B-36s flying over our house, out in the hills in western Oregon. Sometimes there were as many as six in a formation. The windows in the house would actually start vibrating before you could hear the engines in the house. The flights would usually go over quite low above the hills, so the noise was amazing.

Best of luck with this project, I'll be watching!

AmpAce

[dag214]

Dag, I was having the same thoughts as Tex about gearing the prop drive down some with a belt drive. You could turn the scale props with a smaller motor, and probably save some more weight, overall. The belt drive system should also be easier to keep straight, and vibration free, since your connection to the prop shaft would be via a belt. You could just have a straight shaft running through the nacelle, with a bearing at each end, and probably one near the drive sprocket, if it doesn't end up near the end of the shaft. This kind of a system would give you more flexibility as to the size and type of motors you use. I've also heard that a belt drive system for electrics makes a much more realistic sound than a direct drive motor. I've never heard one, though.

There is a wealth of information available from SDP-SI I sent for their free catalogs, and was very pleased with the information and products they contain. Here's a link to their website: http://www.sdp-si.com/

What a magnificant project you have taken on! I remember as a kid, just after WW II, seeing B-36s flying over our house, out in the hills in western Oregon. Sometimes there were as many as six in a formation. The windows in the house would actually start vibrating before you could hear the engines in the house. The flights would usually go over quite low above the hills, so the noise was amazing.

Best of luck with this project, I'll be watching!

AmpAce

AmpAce,
Great seeing you here.
I have tested my motor set up with a AXI 4130 turning a 18-12 3 blade zinger and get the trust and motor time I want, If I needed to turn a bigger prop with a smaller motor I understand that gearing would help turn it. But I don't see the advantage of making the connection between the motor and the prop better. Help me see it. In most case that I have seen the gearing with a belt will add weight over just a shaft and 3 bearings. Also I would have to off-set the motor from the prop thrust line, no big deal as I could mount the motor down (which would give it more air) and then belt drive up to it.

The info you sent looks cool, just keep in mind that moving the motors forward was the only reason I would need to shaft drive it, it does save me about 2.75 pounds but installing belts and gearing may take away the advantage of moving the motor forward, thus making it better to just add the ballast and put the props on the motors direct.

One thing that I just found out is that I can’t move the #2&5, and #3&4 motors to the leading edge, I have an 8’ carbon fiber wing tub, I can still move them up close to the wing tube though. And what is funny is the karma gods must want me to belt drive it, by off setting the motor down in the lower air intake the shaft would clear the wing tube.

I know that I am going to have to make one test nacelle of engine #3 using a direct shaft, and one test nacelle of engine #3 using a belt drive. The reason for #3 is that it would have the longest shafting.

I added a rendering, the bulkheads and truss are read to be cut, but the wing truss needs to be confirmed that it lines up with the wing ribs mounts.

Thanks a ton for the input everyone.

DAG

[AmpAce]

Dag,

Just so you know, I haven't actually experimented with belt drives. What I stated in my last post is mostly heresay, imagination working overtime, and just what I've read.

It just seems logical that a belt driving a shaft would be less likely to set up a vibration between the motor and shaft, due to alignment imperfections, than would an end-on coupling of some sort.

As far as weight savings, I was thinking mainly about using brushless inrunners, of a smaller size than the Axi 4130. Some of the better ones are supposed to be quite a bit more efficient than any outrunner, and with the different sizing of sprockets available, could be geared to turn the scale props at whatever RPM needed to get the thrust. My thoughts are that you could probably also get by with smaller battery packs for the same power and duration.

As you noted, the belt drive system does give much more flexibility in locating the motors. Given the shape of the nacelles, though, you might not be able to get the motors quite as far forward with a belt drive, as with an end-on coupling, except where the wing tube is in the way.

Let us know how your tests of the two systems go!

Great project!

AmpAce

[dag214]

Dag,

Just so you know, I haven't actually experimented with belt drives. What I stated in my last post is mostly heresay, imagination working overtime, and just what I've read.

It just seems logical that a belt driving a shaft would be less likely to set up a vibration between the motor and shaft, due to alignment imperfections, than would an end-on coupling of some sort.

As far as weight savings, I was thinking mainly about using brushless inrunners, of a smaller size than the Axi 4130. Some of the better ones are supposed to be quite a bit more efficient than any outrunner, and with the different sizing of sprockets available, could be geared to turn the scale props at whatever RPM needed to get the thrust. My thoughts are that you could probably also get by with smaller battery packs for the same power and duration.

As you noted, the belt drive system does give much more flexibility in locating the motors. Given the shape of the nacelles, though, you might not be able to get the motors quite as far forward with a belt drive, as with an end-on coupling, except where the wing tube is in the way.

Let us know how your tests of the two systems go!

Great project!

AmpAce

AmpAce
It is really funny, I was about 98% sure of what I was going to use for power, now after inputting some inrunner motors and gearing them 4-1 or 5-1 in ElectriCalc I can say that I am just about back to square one. To be scale I need a 18" 3 blade prop, when I look at gearing it is funny that my 100 power flying time would Calc out to about 3.9 minutes at 54mph, but pull the power back to 65% at 39mph and I get about 13 minutes, that is where I plan on fly at anyway. Thats with a smaller motor and gearing the prop. I have a lot to learn :rolleyes: . But at least the parts can get cut out for now and a bunch of building can get done before I have to land on what power plant I am using.

Thanks a ton for your input.

DAG

[B Sickels]

Here are a few picture of the B-36 James Anderson is building. I made the glass fuse and molds. Butch

[dag214]

Here are a few picture of the B-36 James Anderson is building. I made the glass fuse and molds. Butch


VERY COOL :)

What is the specs on it?
What is its span and projected weight?
What is he using for power?

Thanks, DAG

[Sabrejock]

DAG: If you would like to [1] decrease weight of the power source and [2] increase the flight time, then geared/belted high kv inrunners is the way to go. I have used the 41 series AXI's and they're OK. But get into the high end inrunners and you'll be miles ahead. I have four MaxCim motors but unfortunately Tom is in hyatus, but Steve Neu [NeuMotors] would be where I'd put my money for a project of this importance. From what I've heard he will probably help you with the settups. Tex.

[Usta Bee]

........

[dag214]

DAG: If you would like to [1] decrease weight of the power source and [2] increase the flight time, then geared/belted high kv inrunners is the way to go. I have used the 41 series AXI's and they're OK. But get into the high end inrunners and you'll be miles ahead. I have four MaxCim motors but unfortunately Tom is in hyatus, but Steve Neu [NeuMotors] would be where I'd put my money for a project of this importance. From what I've heard he will probably help you with the settups. Tex.

Tex,
This old dog is learning new tricks. Been a control line and RC gas guy for over 30 years.

Looks like it will 110% be a geared combo. The weight saving is big, also if I re-design the wing to have 2 wing tubes I can still shaft drive the geared motor from the front of the wing going between the tubes. Looks like if I used a Neu combo and Lipo’s I will only be spending about an extra 5% on power and batteries, be nice if I could find a qty discount for buy 6 motors, 6 Speed controllers, and 6 Lipo's.

This re-design of the wing will set me back some, but making this plane stay at under 55 pounds will give it a wing load under 26oz. This plane will chug along and look pretty cool fly a more scale (slow).

Wish I could get the motor direct from Neu, not to sling mud, but I have left 3 voice mails at the place that distributes their motors and never get a response. You would think that a guy going to spend 2.5k on a power plant would get a call back. Hopefully I can find what I want from a dealer or on line. Or if I contact Neu direct they can tell me if the set-up I have put together is the best then just order it on-line from their distributor.


Thanks, DAG

[B Sickels]

The wing span is about 236". The fuse is 165". The weight is "one heavy mother". It has 6 Quadra's with 3 bladed props. James has been setting on the project for awhile, hope he gets back on it soon. I told him I would make a glass wing if it would get him back interrested in the project. A glass wing would be much lighter and stronger.

[AmpAce]

Dag,

I think you are wise to take some time and look around to see just what motors are available, and will work best in your application. I haven't personally used them, but Neu motors have a great reputation, and I understand that they can build just about any configuration you might need. I've also read that Steve Neu is very good about providing help to customers, especially for a special project like yours. Sorry, I don't know how to contact him direct.

I'm not sure just how much experience they have with Neu motors yet, but Castle Creations, makers of excellent speed controls, are now carrying them. They have been very good to me about customer support questions, so might be able to help you. Here's a link to Castles Neu Motor Page: http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm.html

This project is going to be great fun to follow!

AmpAce

[dag214]

Dag,

I think you are wise to take some time and look around to see just what motors are available, and will work best in your application. I haven't personally used them, but Neu motors have a great reputation, and I understand that they can build just about any configuration you might need. I've also read that Steve Neu is very good about providing help to customers, especially for a special project like yours. Sorry, I don't know how to contact him direct.

I'm not sure just how much experience they have with Neu motors yet, but Castle Creations, makers of excellent speed controls, are now carrying them. They have been very good to me about customer support questions, so might be able to help you. Here's a link to Castles Neu Motor Page: http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm.html

This project is going to be great fun to follow!

AmpAce

Thanks AmpAce,
I know Castle has the best speed controllers, but I got a name from a guy at SR batteries that was helping me with my harnesses and batteries to call at Castle about working out what controller would work best and left the guy 3 messages and never heard a thing. Not very impressed.

I am going to try to reach out to Steve Neu and see if he can help me with a wish list of what I really need. After looking at the fact I can turn a larger prop with a gearbox I may take the B-36 back to the 256” size and forget about the 55 pounds, this project has kind of been my mother of all projects and should build it all out. At 256” I may still be able to hit 55 pounds, but my calc’s show 62 pounds.

Thanks,

[dag214]

The wing span is about 236". The fuse is 165". The weight is "one heavy mother". It has 6 Quadra's with 3 bladed props. James has been setting on the project for awhile, hope he gets back on it soon. I told him I would make a glass wing if it would get him back interrested in the project. A glass wing would be much lighter and stronger.

Thanks for the specs,

That is the same as mine, I have seen 3 guys try to do the b-36 and keep it under 100 pounds with gas, all of them ended up with over 25-35 pounds of ballast in the nose, that why I went the direction I did with electric. Would love to know how you get your glass so light. I use balsa and carbon fiber tape then cover with ultracote and paint. All of the 50% planes I have built that had glass fuses were 10-15% heavier that wood, I had a 50% Pitts S-1 that I saved 6 pounds on by building my own built-up wood fuse, wish I knew your secret.

My fuse will have the inboard part of the wing built into it so it can set on it's gear when the wings are off it.

Thanks,
DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi Dag and everyone else!
Here's a picture of my giant scale B-17, and it's mostly an electrically operated airplane by the way!
Man those electric motors were a BEAR to INSTALL, and you should see my BATTERY PACK!!!!!
Notice the bomb bay, those are really m Lipo batteries, neat way to conceal them eh?
Easy access to get them in and out!
Actually they plug in with a big auxillary charging cord.
The car is to just give you an idea of the scale! LOL!
Okay Dag, let's see you build that B-36 to match the size of my B-17!! LOL!!!

Ed

[dag214]

Hi Dag and everyone else!
Here's a picture of my giant scale B-17, and it's mostly an electrically operated airplane by the way!
Man those electric motors were a BEAR to INSTALL, and you should see my BATTERY PACK!!!!!
Notice the bomb bay, those are really m Lipo batteries, neat way to conceal them eh?
Easy access to get them in and out!
Actually they plug in with a big auxillary charging cord.
The car is to just give you an idea of the scale! LOL!
Okay Dag, let's see you build that B-36 to match the size of my B-17!! LOL!!!

Ed

Hey Ed,
Great to see you here.

Well I did think about making one close to that size, but the 6,955 LiPo packs were to hard to charge LOL, and the 30hp 3 phase 480 motor would not swing my 3 blade 19' prop.

I do have some news though, I have re-scaled my Balsa Overcast back to 258" It will take me about 3 weeks to get the nacelles re-designed around in-runner motors, but fuse work will start this week end :) .

The 1919 had some problems that seemed to go away once I got the wings on, but if she never flies I might see if the EAA museum would want it.

Is that the 17 that was at Purdue and Mt. Comfort?

Take care,

DAG

[TRWXXA]

Hey Dag!

Can't wait to see the completion of this project. Where do you fly, Muncie? I'm over in Zionsville and would love to see it fly in person.

Ed,

I like your Mustang (and your B-17 ;) ). I have a '93 SSP that I enjoy playing with.

[dag214]

Hey Dag!

Can't wait to see the completion of this project. Where do you fly, Muncie? I'm over in Zionsville and would love to see it fly in person.

Ed,

I like your Mustang (and your B-17 ;) ). I have a '93 SSP that I enjoy playing with.

I am really hoping to get this in the air next summer, just depends on how far I get with the powerplants. I fly at Muncie with my big planes, just the place get busy in the summer. Wish I had a place to fly at as a alternate. With the wing loading this bird won't need to big of a field to fly at. When I get to the point of test flying, the more the merrier :) .

Thanks, DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi Dag!
Yeah buddy, charging those Lipos up takes a week! LOL!
I applied to our Govt for a BAILOUT LOAN to buy them!!!
Got in early before all this mess in Washington, only took a couple million to buy them.
You should see those ESC's too!!!! LOL!

Ed





Hey Ed,
Great to see you here.

Well I did think about making one close to that size, but the 6,955 LiPo packs were to hard to charge LOL, and the 30hp 3 phase 480 motor would not swing my 3 blade 19' prop.

I do have some news though, I have re-scaled my Balsa Overcast back to 258" It will take me about 3 weeks to get the nacelles re-designed around in-runner motors, but fuse work will start this week end :) .

The 1919 had some problems that seemed to go away once I got the wings on, but if she never flies I might see if the EAA museum would want it.

Is that the 17 that was at Purdue and Mt. Comfort?

Take care,

DAG

[gtfreeflyer]

I will post more of the 3D renderings, what is vrey cool is every part I have drawn gets put into a 3D model then I build it in 3D, if the parts fit in 3D then they will fit when I cut the kit out of wood.
DAG

Good luck! I'm a design engineer and this statement is definitely not always true! Are you laser cutting parts or are you just going to cut one by one?

[dag214]

Good luck! I'm a design engineer and this statement is definitely not always true! Are you laser cutting parts or are you just going to cut one by one?

What part is not true? :)

I also have been engineering plane for many years, I have built both full scale aircraft and this monster. Everything I have ever design either in solid works or Max 3Ds has alway fit 110% perfect :) . If it is drawn 1 to 1 and plotted 1 to 1 how can the parts not fit? If I were to do a real bad job of cutting it might take a hammer, or if I don't input the correct scale if laser cutting I might have problems, The parts on 55% Pitts S-1 fit like a glove, same with my 181" B-29. I have never had a problem with parts fitting if drawn right and then plotted correct, and then cut correct. :)

I have drawn over 10 planes to date with Max 3Ds alone and so far so good.

My next project is a 195" T-28

Cheers,

DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi Dag!
Hey let's collaborate and do an Ercoupe! LOL!

Ed

[dag214]

Hi Dag!
Hey let's collaborate and do an Ercoupe! LOL!

Ed

Hey Ed,
I think we will have to do it with rudder peddles. It would be 200% and that way we could put a radial in it.

It is funny, I have met a few people out there that say they have problems getting stuff to fit after designing it in 3D, I have employed engineers in the past and if they could get the parts to fit using 3D software I would fire them.

The T-28 has 895+ parts, and most will fit fine, now if I missed where an air hose goes I might have to open up a bulkhead, my B-29 had 1560+ parts and work perfect. I think many people miss the fact that good 3D drawings have many layer, on my B-36 I have a layer for just about every system, and a layer for every structure at this point I have over 65 layers. It might take me months to design, but in the end the build goes very fast.

I still have to get up north and see your plane and FBO.

DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Hi guy's, I am here watching and reading but I cant contribute yet...lol lol lol...

I do think the belt drive is a good idea but you all have already come to that conclusion anyway...lol lol lol...

I do admire you Dag for the fact that you are so willing to start over for a better idea, Which is the right thing to do but I am lazy I guess because I will think of something and stick to it even if its wrong because I dont want to start over...lol lol lol...

I guess I am joking a little but I do hate to start over...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim

[dag214]

Hi guy's, I am here watching and reading but I cant contribute yet...lol lol lol...

I do think the belt drive is a good idea but you all have already come to that conclusion anyway...lol lol lol...

I do admire you Dag for the fact that you are so willing to start over for a better idea, Which is the right thing to do but I am lazy I guess because I will think of something and stick to it even if its wrong because I dont want to start over...lol lol lol...

I guess I am joking a little but I do hate to start over...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim

Hey, Tim

Yep starting over is a real pain.
The airfoil on this plane is a NACA 63(420)-422 for the root, and a NACA 63(420)-517 for the tip. This is a very thick wing, but every time I change anything in the wing it makes something else not fit. Gearing the motors and shaft driving the props won’t be nearly as hard as I had thought. The problem is that the wing has a 3 degrees incidence, this make fitting everything in the wing tricky because the prop shaft has to exit the cord line. So when I went from the motors at the trial edge it made me have to go back and completely lay the ribs out again, that means all of my systems, landing gear, flap actuators, wing tubes, wiring harness, speed controllers, air system, and batteries have to be relocated to keep my CG moments correct to hit my target weight. I will tell you the math that has gone into this project is un-real.

I am building a engine nacelle for testing the shafting, when I get it cut out I will take some pics, though next week I am traveling for my business and won’t get much done.

Thanks,

DAG

[crashsiegel]

Dag,
Tom Hunt of www.modelairtech.com has a lot of experience with large belt drives. I used a couple of his for a few years. Unfortunately, I don't see them on his web site anymore (guess outrunners did them in). But you could talk to him, he is a very helpful and a great guy.

If you look inside the clear cowls on P109 and P131 at this link you will see examples of his belt drives:
http://www.modelairtech.com/sport.html

Hope this helps,
Crash

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hey Ed,
I think we will have to do it with rudder peddles. It would be 200% and that way we could put a radial in it.

It is funny, I have met a few people out there that say they have problems getting stuff to fit after designing it in 3D, I have employed engineers in the past and if they could get the parts to fit using 3D software I would fire them.

The T-28 has 895+ parts, and most will fit fine, now if I missed where an air hose goes I might have to open up a bulkhead, my B-29 had 1560+ parts and work perfect. I think many people miss the fact that good 3D drawings have many layer, on my B-36 I have a layer for just about every system, and a layer for every structure at this point I have over 65 layers. It might take me months to design, but in the end the build goes very fast.

I still have to get up north and see your plane and FBO.

DAG

A BIG ROUND ENGINE!!! in an Ercoupe!!! :D
Yeahhh buddyyyy!!!! LOL!!

I happen to know where there is a 28 cylinder Pratt & Whitney setting at just across the airport from my hangar.
Think it would have enough power? LOL!!!
In reality IT IS the spare engine for the Howard Hughes Flying boat.
It was donated to the airplane museum in Auburn.
I do admire your work Dag!
I'm one of those OLD CURMUDGEONS who still uses Exacto knives,Elmers glue. epoxy sometimes, and puts an airplane together piece by piece instead of pulling it out of a box already put together.
Sometimes I even scratch build, like I said I'm an ancient dinosaur type, who also uses scroll saws, band saws, radial sanders, for making my own parts, and pins and vises for assembling an airplane.

Ed

[dag214]

Dag,
Tom Hunt of www.modelairtech.com has a lot of experience with large belt drives. I used a couple of his for a few years. Unfortunately, I don't see them on his web site anymore (guess outrunners did them in). But you could talk to him, he is a very helpful and a great guy.

If you look inside the clear cowls on P109 and P131 at this link you will see examples of his belt drives:
http://www.modelairtech.com/sport.html

Hope this helps,
Crash
Crash,
Thanks a ton. I seemed to be having bad luck finding anyone who wants to help me on my motor set-up. I sent 2 e-mails to Neutronics and have not heard anything yet, I did leave a message for Steve Neu, I hope he calls me back. I have used the Neutronics motor calculator, and ElectriCalc and think I am getting close.

ElectricCalc says that I need a Neu 1509/2Y with a 6.7to1 gearbox. And with a 4cell LiPo at around 4100 MAH I will get a good cruise of around 12 minutes turnning a 20" 3 blade prop.

I think I may just have to build my own belt drive system and experiment with motors. I will try to get in touch with Tom Hunt and see if he can guide me in the right direction.

This is great info, thanks.

DAG

[dag214]

A BIG ROUND ENGINE!!! in an Ercoupe!!! :D
Yeahhh buddyyyy!!!! LOL!!

I happen to know where there is a 28 cylinder Pratt & Whitney setting at just across the airport from my hangar.
Think it would have enough power? LOL!!!
In reality IT IS the spare engine for the Howard Hughes Flying boat.
It was donated to the airplane museum in Auburn.
I do admire your work Dag!
I'm one of those OLD CURMUDGEONS who still uses Exacto knives,Elmers glue. epoxy sometimes, and puts an airplane together piece by piece instead of pulling it out of a box already put together.
Sometimes I even scratch build, like I said I'm an ancient dinosaur type, who also uses scroll saws, band saws, radial sanders, for making my own parts, and pins and vises for assembling an airplane.

Ed

Ed,
I will make some time this winter to get up there and see that engine. I too still used the caveman tools. Wish I had a CNC router. But most of my parts come from a bandsaw, jigsaw, and belt sander.

DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi Dag,
Would it be difficult to build a CNC router?
The reason I ask, I have a freind of mine who is an ex-IT computer specialist
and also an excellent carpenter and very knowledgeable on power tools and actually designed a unique router attachment for table saws and is presently seeking a patent on it.
I would think between the 3 of us, you, I and him, we could come up with something.
I have a set of plans for a CNC foam cutter, but havee never built it

Ed

[dag214]

Hi Dag,
Would it be difficult to build a CNC router?
The reason I ask, I have a freind of mine who is an ex-IT computer specialist
and also an excellent carpenter and very knowledgeable on power tools and actually designed a unique router attachment for table saws and is presently seeking a patent on it.
I would think between the 3 of us, you, I and him, we could come up with something.
I have a set of plans for a CNC foam cutter, but havee never built it

Ed
Ed,
There are kits out there for making a CNC router and they look simple, 2 axis is about 4k, the pro built one can be over 20k :eek: .

I saw one once cut out a bunch of ribs, it was very cool.

DAG

[appleflyer]

so how far have you gotten on the B-36D? all ive seen for far are pics of the 3D animations.

[dag214]

so how far have you gotten on the B-36D? all ive seen for far are pics of the 3D animations.

I have plotted out all of the fuse bulkheads and trussing and hope to start cutting them out this weekend, my company comes before aviation and next week and I have to be traveling. I also hope that I get the #3 engine nacelle cut out this weekend as I want to get the mock-up of that built before I order all six motors. One reason I started this build thread so early is that when I started the thread on my Vintage 1919 everyone wanted to see how I designed it. My goal is to have all wood cut out by mid November. I hope to have the fuse framed up by November 1st week in November. I also had built and taken a part the left main gear which now will be built by Centry Jet Models.

Thanks, DAG

[gtfreeflyer]

LOL! It would only be better if you had the neighbor's kid sitting in their Power Wheels next to this.

Do you do any stress analysis on these huge models or do you just design by "general rule of thumb"?

[dag214]

LOL! It would only be better if you had the neighbor's kid sitting in their Power Wheels next to this.

Do you do any stress analysis on these huge models or do you just design by "general rule of thumb"?

My girl has a jeep, never thought of that picture but would have been really funny.

Most of structural analysis are "rule of thumb", the only place that I really look at the numbers are the landing gear, and wing, on my B-29 my landing gear ended up weighing over 9 pounds for all three of them, after going thinner wall aluminum, and using carbon fiber tubing for the strut arms I was able to get them down to 5 pounds. I also used carbon fiber rod as the axles. This planes wing is going to be my lightest design yet and I am going to build the truss spar and see what it can hold, then build the wing accordingly. I have found that most forces on a properly designed wing are just like loads on a bridge. In most cases you should only have loads in tensile (pulling), and not moment (bending). My built-up 55% Pitts S-1 top wing weighed 4.5 pounds, but could hold my sons weight at the time of 120 pounds. With this thick wing I have the luxury of being able to build a true truss structure as the wing spar.

Thanks, DAG

[gtfreeflyer]

One more question...
Where do you store all these planes? Have you built a hanger yet :)

[Tim Farrar]

One more question...
Where do you store all these planes? Have you built a hanger yet :)
Wow !!
I never thought about it but that is a great question !!! :D

Where do you keep them Dag !!!!...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim

[RiBell]

I have found that most forces on a properly designed wing are just like loads on a bridge. In most cases you should only have loads in tensile (pulling), and not moment (bending).
My understanding on structural designs is that the parts that are under compression need to be a little bit beefier as they will fail before the parts in tension.
There is a neat little game program called bridge builder. It's a little bit addicting, you have to build a train bridge, on a budget. You can do a stress analysis to see where it failed. Most failures are compression.
Yes I know its a little game, but it does seem to give a pretty accurate results or at least how I understand.
Anyway back to watching a B-36D
Rick

[dag214]

gtfreeflyer/Tim:
I keep most of my planes broken down in a room above my garage.

RiBell,
You are 110% correct, thing are stronger in tension, than compression. But what is a real bad idea is to design around bending forces.

I what to update you all on a conversation I had with Tom Hunt, he is really into electrics and has overloaded me with what works and what does not. Tom has been doing electrics since the 80”s and he is a real engineer at Northrop Grumman for almost 30 years. He said the reason belt drives have fallen of the earth is because they are just not efficient and other technologies have made them obsolete. Tom has given me plenty of direction on what will work, now I have to finish the re-design of the plane to see what size prop I really will be turning. In the end he said that be it geared or direct drive you still have to have the same load to turn it, its just at what weight the power plant needs to be. The out-runner with direct drive will still turn the prop I need, but the geared in-runner is half the weight. Steve Neu got back with me and is going to tell me which motor/gear box combo will turn my prop. So my plans are to build a mock up of my #3 nacelle and try the Axi direct drive, then the Neu geared and see which gives my the rpm’s I need and also which one gives the best trade-offs for weight. The Neu motor may be light enough that I would not need to shaft drive,which would be great.

More rendering attached of my wing and fuse development.

Cutting out some wing ribs and bulkheads tomorrow.

Thanks all.

DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Great Dag !!

I'm glad you are getting somewhere now with your motors, I know that has been bothering you !!!

I'm really glad you started your build thread now for us so we can see how you do this with your drawings...

I appreciate you doing this, it is very interesting to keep up with.
Even when I dont post I am here reading...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim

[dag214]

Great Dag !!

I'm glad you are getting somewhere now with your motors, I know that has been bothering you !!!

I'm really glad you started your build thread now for us so we can see how you do this with your drawings...

I appreciate you doing this, it is very interesting to keep up with.
Even when I dont post I am here reading...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim
Thanks Tim,
I have always had the feeling that you were there lurking in the shadows. This motor thing has been a big deal. In designing something where every once is scrutinized is what makes this so hard. If I use a out-runner I need 2 wing tubes so that I can have a clear path for the shafting to the props, if I use a geared in-runner it may be light enough to leave it at the rear on the nacelle, this would save on having 2 wing tubes and that associated weight, but any ounce behind the CG needs ballast in the nose. If I have time I am going to re-calculate this weekend what the geared in-runner weight saving will be, but I took today off to try to get set up to start cutting some wood, I may cut some ribs to day but not the wing tube holes as I may go back to a single wing tube design.

And thanks for all your support, my b-29 never had a thread and everyone that saw it didn’t know that it was a Don Smith plan drawn in 3D so that I could re-design it as an electric, everyone wanted to see pics and it’s progress, but in the end it was scraped because it called for a wing design that had the bottom main spar cut out to allow the landing gear a place to go in. In the end the wing was to light to take flying loads and just didn’t work, a year of work down the tubes. The whole airframe only weight 11 pounds and had a 181" wing. Completed my weight was 36 pounds

Thanks, DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Oh Man !!

I cant imagin all that work for nothing !!!

It sure looked great though from those pictures !!!

I mean it really looked nice !!!

I know it is spilled milk now but if you still have it you should some day try shuving a aluminum tube or a carbon fiber tube down that wing.

I guess there isnt enough room though or something like that because I know you wouldnt have scrapped it if there was something that could have been done.

11 lbs at the stage you had it is really great too !!!

Well, I suppose it may have served a purpose for this one...I bet you have that spar problem in mind this whole build until this wing is finnished...lol...

For real though, I hate that you had to scrap such a nice job and so far in the making...
It is sad to me...


Seeya, Tim

[jfetter]

Welllll,
After thinking more about what Tex said about shafting the motors I think it is 110% the way to go.

Thanks, DAG

Awesome project, will be watching with great interest!

I do have an alternate suggestion to the shaft idea, that is use the LiPo's for ballast. I imagine you will want them in the nacelles anyway (or in this case, a pocket in the front of the wing in line with each nacelle) to reduce the wing joint stress at the fuse...

Jack

[dag214]

Tim,
All that work showed me how to use my mill and lathe:) , and all that work helped me to understand how important it is to make sure it fits in 3D, because if it don't it won't when you cut it out. It was a set back, but I never would have taken this on this project with out knowing what I do now.

jfetter,
My batteries are at the leading edge already in this design, at first I was going to put them in the nose, and then I learned that the battery should not be more than 18" from the speed controller, the in-rush of current stored in the long wire run can blow out the speed controller, that was a huge set back, but I think I have it under control now, at least I hope so.

Thanks all,

DAG

[jfetter]

jfetter,
My batteries are at the leading edge already in this design, at first I was going to put them in the nose, and then I learned that the battery should not be more than 18" from the speed controller, the in-rush of current stored in the long wire run can blow out the speed controller, that was a huge set back, but I think I have it under control now, at least I hope so.

Thanks all,

DAG

DAG,

You are correct about the Battery-to-ESC leads BUT you can extend the ESC-to-Motor leads considerably. I've extended them 36" in pushers before without issue (make sure they are even) and I've heard others that have extended them more...

Jack

[Tim Farrar]

DAG,

You are correct about the Battery-to-ESC leads BUT you can extend the ESC-to-Motor leads considerably. I've extended them 36" in pushers before without issue (make sure they are even) and I've heard others that have extended them more...

Jack
Wow, I hate to put something else on your plate to think about but that does sound like something to look into Dag.


Seeya, Tim

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hey Dag,
You ever get an uneasy feeling that Homeland Security may come knocking on your door in relation to the "large scale" Air Force you're building???
LOL!!!! :D

Ed

[Sabrejock]

DAG,

You are correct about the Battery-to-ESC leads BUT you can extend the ESC-to-Motor leads considerably. I've extended them 36" in pushers before without issue (make sure they are even) and I've heard others that have extended them more...

Jack

And you can add another couple of good size capacitors at the input side of the ESC, just like the ones that are already there. I do this with large twins that have the batt in the fuse. I really don't know when they become needed, but I did it as a safety factor. Tex.

[dag214]

DAG,

You are correct about the Battery-to-ESC leads BUT you can extend the ESC-to-Motor leads considerably. I've extended them 36" in pushers before without issue (make sure they are even) and I've heard others that have extended them more...

Jack

jfetter,
What amp ESC were you using, what size motor. I was told by Castle not to go more than 12" from battery to motor. If I can go more then I will move all my Lipo's to the front center of the wing with the ESC close by then run wire out to the motors. I may have to test to make sure it will work.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

And you can add another couple of good size capacitors at the input side of the ESC, just like the ones that are already there. I do this with large twins that have the batt in the fuse. I really don't know when they become needed, but I did it as a safety factor. Tex.

Tex,
Castle said that I needed to add the same size capacitor that is one the ESC for every 1" that I go past 18", now others have told me that it is 1 capacitor for every 6". But if I can add on the motor size that would help a bunch.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

Well here is the first Rib (really Rib#2, but the first one cut).

It is only 1.5oz, which is .5 heavier than I had wanted.

I am using my V.P. of develpment (Emma) in the pic for scale.

This is really going to be a cool project.

DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Well here is the first Rib (really Rib#2, but the first one cut).

I am using my V.P. of develpment (Emma) in the pic for scale.

This is really going to be a cool project.

DAG
Wow that is really huge !!!!

I cant imagin how this will look when finnished !!!

The VP there must be doing a great job because she is the same as the one for your last build !!..lol...


Seeya, Tim

[gtfreeflyer]

How do you cut the rib? Do you print out the shape full scale and then trace it onto the rib? Do you then just carefully cut it manually with your router? What's the trick to getting it exact?

[dag214]

How do you cut the rib? Do you print out the shape full scale and then trace it onto the rib? Do you then just carefully cut it manually with your router? What's the trick to getting it exact?
gtfreeflyer,

I will take some pics when I cut the next one. I was lucky enough to find a used HP plotter very cheap that prints up to 110" long, and 36" wide. Plot out the rib, then take 3M super 77 adhesive and spray just a dusting on the back of the plotted paper rib, then stick it to the wood, then cut on the lines. The whole process from plotting to a cut rib is about 20 minutes, but keep in mind that I cut the ribs in pairs so it goes a little faster than you would think.

If anyone ever has any giant scale projects in CAD that need plotting let me know, in most cases I can do as long as shipping is covered, if it takes a bunch of paper I might have to have some help with the cost of the paper.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

Here is cutting out a bulkhead.

DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

gtfreeflyer,

I will take some pics when I cut the next one. I was lucky enough to find a used HP plotter very cheap that prints up to 110" long, and 36" wide. Plot out the rib, then take 3M super 77 adhesive and spray just a dusting on the back of the plotted paper rib, then stick it to the wood, then cut on the lines. The whole process from plotting to a cut rib is about 20 minutes, but keep in mind that I cut the ribs in pairs so it goes a little faster than you would think.

If anyone ever has any giant scale projects in CAD that need plotting let me know, in most cases I can do as long as shipping is covered, if it takes a bunch of paper I might have to have some help with the cost of the paper.

Thanks, DAG

Hi Dag, I have a set of plans for a 78 inch JN-4 Curtiss Jenny on a CD.
Can you print something like that out?
I am also interested in blowing up a second set of plans to 150% or 117 inches.


Ed

[gtfreeflyer]

Very cool. Thanks for the explanation. What is the row of holes for? Does it serve a function other than lightening? Holes like that are pretty bad for stress as you can get a "gang chain crack" that can easily run across all the holes very quickly. I've done that on one of my designs here at work, and it got torn apart by the stress analysists. I think the rule of thumb they stuck to was two or three diameters between each hole. Lightening holes actually don't lighten as much as they weaken. When I'm trying to reduce weight of a part, it's much better to decrease the thickness rather than cut a hole in the part. Of course, this would be a big pain in the butt in your situation unless you have a planar next to that jigsaw. Sharp corners are another concern as cracks will propogate from here. Try to put corner fillets, even 1/16" radius will do, wherever you can.

[B Sickels]

DAG, you are doing the same thing I have already been through. The mold is done. Sure would save a bunch of time.

[dag214]

Hi Dag, I have a set of plans for a 78 inch JN-4 Curtiss Jenny on a CD.
Can you print something like that out?
I am also interested in blowing up a second set of plans to 150% or 117 inches.


Ed

Ed,
How big is the drawing on the CD, can you e-mail me the plans, if not I bet if you copied the CD and sent it to me I could figure it out.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

Very cool. Thanks for the explanation. What is the row of holes for? Does it serve a function other than lightening? Holes like that are pretty bad for stress as you can get a "gang chain crack" that can easily run across all the holes very quickly. I've done that on one of my designs here at work, and it got torn apart by the stress analysists. I think the rule of thumb they stuck to was two or three diameters between each hole. Lightening holes actually don't lighten as much as they weaken. When I'm trying to reduce weight of a part, it's much better to decrease the thickness rather than cut a hole in the part. Of course, this would be a big pain in the butt in your situation unless you have a planar next to that jigsaw. Sharp corners are another concern as cracks will propogate from here. Try to put corner fillets, even 1/16" radius will do, wherever you can.

The big holes on the sides are for carbon fiber tubes, the fuse breaks down into 3 parts.
The other holes are both for lightening and systems, airlines, power cords.

The right angles in the fuse bulhead is where the long fuse truss lives, this is where I get 80% of my strenght from so I am not to worried about having to many holes in each bulkhead.

Keep the in put coming though I am not ever 100% sure that anything I do does not have a better and more stronger way.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

DAG, you are doing the same thing I have already been through. The mold is done. Sure would save a bunch of time.

This plane has a 257" span and the fuse is 182" long now. Didn't you say your molds were for a 161" fuse??

Thanks, wish you had a 182" fuse.

DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Ed,
How big is the drawing on the CD, can you e-mail me the plans, if not I bet if you copied the CD and sent it to me I could figure it out.

Thanks, DAG
Dag I have the plans on an email attachment if you want to take a look at them.
emailed the files to you.
let me know if they came through.
I also have them on a CD.
I tried Kinkos here locally, but the gal running the place seemed totally stumped when I told her that I simply wanted the plans printed out.
She tried 3 times, and 3 times they did print but were on the paper the wrong way, and about 1/3 of the plans were cutout.
So I gave up, and after waiting for an hour also, I went home.
Obviously with no plans.

PS- Our VAA Chapter had a movie nigt tonight at the clubhouse at the airport. We watched a trilogy of three short movies "Flights of Courage" about the US Air Mail Service, very good, then the next one was "The Red Baron, also quite good, and the last short movie was "The Lindbergh Story".
My buddy Geoff got it through Netflicks.


THanks!
Ed

[redjem13]

Wow.


Absolutely Fantastic. I'll be watching.

~Matt

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hey Dag,
You know you have to get a copy of Jimmy Stewart in "Strategic Air Command", there's some great video on B-36's in it!!!

Ed

[Tim Farrar]

Wow Dag your Fusealage Formers and ribs are looking awsome and you make the scroll saw look like it is easy !!!!

I have always liked a wood frame up myself rather than fiberglass anyway.

I dont know how to exsplain it but I just do...lol...


Seeya, Tim

[dag214]

Dag I have the plans on an email attachment if you want to take a look at them.
emailed the files to you.
let me know if they came through.
I also have them on a CD.
I tried Kinkos here locally, but the gal running the place seemed totally stumped when I told her that I simply wanted the plans printed out.
She tried 3 times, and 3 times they did print but were on the paper the wrong way, and about 1/3 of the plans were cutout.
So I gave up, and after waiting for an hour also, I went home.
Obviously with no plans.

PS- Our VAA Chapter had a movie nigt tonight at the clubhouse at the airport. We watched a trilogy of three short movies "Flights of Courage" about the US Air Mail Service, very good, then the next one was "The Red Baron, also quite good, and the last short movie was "The Lindbergh Story".
My buddy Geoff got it through Netflicks.


THanks!
Ed

Ed,
Got the drawings, they are 90 degrees off what most printers would like to see them in, but that should be no problem, I will try a test print this afternoon. You also said that you would like to blow them up, by what %? I think I can do it, but once you get past 36" wide in one direction you will need to get the tape out and start attaching the drawings.

Rock On!

DAG

[dag214]

Wow Dag your Fusealage Formers and ribs are looking awsome and you make the scroll saw look like it is easy !!!!

I have always liked a wood frame up myself rather than fiberglass anyway.

I dont know how to exsplain it but I just do...lol...


Seeya, Tim
Tim,
Some guys are great with glass, but I have never seen a plane yet where glass was really lighter, if it was easy all the 3D guys would be using alot more of it, but just my 2 cents, don't what to de-rail the thread about glassing. The scroll saw is just about going 150,000% slow, and taking your time. I have had many parts where the first 20 cuts were great, then had to trash the part because I got to far off the line. If I were rich I would have a laser cutter, but I get close and it only takes about a month to cut all of the parts.

DAG

[dag214]

Hey Dag,
You know you have to get a copy of Jimmy Stewart in "Strategic Air Command", there's some great video on B-36's in it!!!

Ed
Ed,
Have watch it many, MANY times. The scene where it takes off I was told was shot from a b-25 out the waist gunner position.


DAG

[dag214]

This pic shows how she will break down.

DAG

[dag214]

Wow.


Absolutely Fantastic. I'll be watching.

~Matt

Thanks, DAG

[Ercoupe Ed]

Ed,
Have watch it many, MANY times. The scene where it takes off I was told was shot from a b-25 out the waist gunner position.


DAG

Hi Dag, I never really payed attention to the credits of the mvie, but I am going guess that either Clay Lacy or Tallmantz aviation did the filming. I do belive Clay lacy has a B-25 that he rigged for aerial filming.

Ed

PS- Have you ever seen "One Six Right"?
Great flick!

www.onesixright.com

[Tim Farrar]

Dag, In my oppinion you have to be the best designer in the world !!

That is just simply awsome !!!

Seeya, Tim

[Tim Farrar]

Hi Ed, that is a great video !!

I may have to buy the DVD !!

Right now they have left and right videos, (Two part I guess) for about $27.00 and free shipping !!

I love that movie you guy's have been talking about !!
Jimmy Stewart and June Allison always made great movies together !!!

June Allison's husband used to call Jimmy Stewart his "Husband N Law"...lol lol lol...
Because they played married parts in so many movies you know...lol lol lol...

Dag, if it isnt to much trouble !!
I would love a set of those plans that you are printing for ED.
What size are you guy's going for ?
I was actually wanting 105" wingspan to be an even 1/5th scale but I dont want to be more difficult.
If what Ed wants is close, I will just take those so you dont have to redue everything.
I will pay for the time, Paper, and shipping...

I'm a little embarrased to be sticking my nose in this so if I am stepping out of bound I will understand.

Seeya, Tim

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hey guys,
Since we all enjoy aviation, this reallly isn't about electrics,
but go to

www.onesixright.com

and then click on "Flying Full Circle" and watch it, about ten minutes long --AWESOME!!
Then click on "Aviation Epic"

Good stuff!!!
If you haven't seen "One Six Right" you're really missing out on a great movie!!!


Ed

[dag214]

Dag, In my oppinion you have to be the best designer in the world !!

That is just simply awsome !!!

Seeya, Tim
Thanks Tim,
Not sure about the best, I just love designing in 3D then builting it. The hours in this project are most likely over 200 of design and drawing. The first CAD drawing was in 1999, the first 3D was in 2003. It started as a gas, but was just going to be to heavy.

Attached is the #2 nacelle it is for the mock-up to test how a in-runner would attached and be cooled. The other mock-up will be for the out-runner shaft driven, but it is really looking like 6 Neu in-runners at the rear of the nacelle, the weight savings are a lot.

Thanks, DAG

[dag214]

Hi Ed, that is a great video !!

I may have to buy the DVD !!

Right now they have left and right videos, (Two part I guess) for about $27.00 and free shipping !!

I love that movie you guy's have been talking about !!
Jimmy Stewart and June Allison always made great movies together !!!

June Allison's husband used to call Jimmy Stewart his "Husband N Law"...lol lol lol...
Because they played married parts in so many movies you know...lol lol lol...

Dag, if it isnt to much trouble !!
I would love a set of those plans that you are printing for ED.
What size are you guy's going for ?
I was actually wanting 105" wingspan to be an even 1/5th scale but I dont want to be more difficult.
If what Ed wants is close, I will just take those so you dont have to redue everything.
I will pay for the time, Paper, and shipping...

I'm a little embarrased to be sticking my nose in this so if I am stepping out of bound I will understand.

Seeya, Tim

Tim,
I am seeing at what scale Ed's drawing will print to. It looks like the paper is 106" long, so the wing will be around 103"-105"

I will let you two know once I see if it works.

Rock On!

DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Tim,
I am seeing at what scale Ed's drawing will print to. It looks like the paper is 106" long, so the wing will be around 103"-105"

I will let you two know once I see if it works.

Rock On!

DAG
Thanks Dag, this is exstreamly nice of you especially when I know you would rather be doing something on the B-36 !!!

Thanks
Seeya, Tim

[RiBell]

Well here is the first Rib (really Rib#2, but the first one cut).

It is only 1.5oz, which is .5 heavier than I had wanted.

I am using my V.P. of development (Emma) in the pic for scale.

This is really going to be a cool project.

DAG
It's going to be huge 257" doesn't sound all that big; until you see a part cut out; or do the math 257/12 that's over 20 feet :eek:
I'm along for the watching; should be kinda cool when it's all done.
Rick

[turbonut]

Very cool project! I have a set of the plans from the kit you have(t.m.h.k.) toyko moki i think...some day I would like to turn it into an rc ..if you ever want to sell that kit let me know! I will be watching your progress
Scott

[BoneDoc]

Awesome work Dag! Looking forward to the progress.

[dag214]

Awesome work Dag! Looking forward to the progress.
Thanks,
It will go a little slow this next 2 weeks, then after that I should be able to put about 20 hours a week into building. She should look like a plane by mid november. I still have to build the table a jig for the wings though.

My work takes up a ton of my time, but with the summer hobbies coming to a end I should get more done.

Thanks, DAG

[Tim Farrar]

Thanks,
It will go a little slow this next 2 weeks, then after that I should be able to put about 20 hours a week into building. She should look like a plane by mid november. I still have to build the table a jig for the wings though.

My work takes up a ton of my time, but with the summer hobbies coming to a end I should get more done.

Thanks, DAG
Ya, I didnt think about it but you probably have to do as much work setting up to build this monster as building it !!!

Seeya, Tim

[B Sickels]

This plane has a 257" span and the fuse is 182" long now. Didn't you say your molds were for a 161" fuse??

Thanks, wish you had a 182" fuse.

DAG
Your right I wasn't paying attention. Sorry

[dhelms9138]

dag, what cad program did you use to draw the plans? I scanned through the whole thread before asking, but didn't see anything.

[dag214]

Tim,
I have to build 4 tables, one for the fuse, 2 for the wings, and one for the H-stab. The H-stab is 80", heck the H-stab is IMAA legal LOL.

dhelms,
I used AutoCad 2000. Just never got around to updating it. I only use it for my models. I can output any of my darwings as dwg, or dxf files.

Thanks all,

DAG

[dag214]

This project is going to be a true "Balsa Overcast"

100-3/32"X4"X48" balsa sheets
40-1/2"X1/2"X48" balsa sticks
50-1/4"X1/4"X48" balsa sticks
50-1/2"X1/4"X48" balsa sticks
20-1/2"X1"X48" balsa Sticks
1 sheet 4'X8'X1/8" Lite plywood from Aircraft spruce.
1 sheet 4'X8'X1/4" Lite plywood from Aircraft spruce.
And 125 feet of carbon fiber tape 1" wide.
All this shipped for abour $480.00

Not bad for such a hugh airframe.

DAG

[dag214]

Some data:
one shows a 19" prop at 12 pitch, and the other at 16 pitch look at the amps used and the air speed.

DAG