eRaptor 550 Build Thread

[Kawasaki297]

I received an eRaptor 550 kit last Tuesday and got it out for a maiden today.

The build was very straight forward other than the kit came with a Chinese manual. After I downloaded and printed off the English version things went much better. There were a few places that I did not follow along in the manual and I should have. One was the head and the direction of the flybar arms and washout direction. I had it all together and realized the washout arms would not fit on. Luckily it is very easy to turn the flybar over so I did not have to disassemble it. After that glitch everything went together very easily. The other mistake should be very obvious in the pictures! Oooops :rolleyes:

The only other thing that needed attention were a few ball links. Some were a perfect fit but many were too tight. Usually the kits I have received are all too tight or all fit well.

I even used the stock tail setup as I did not have tail boom mounts for the servo. It is very strange that they would put the rudder servo as far forward in the heli as possible but it does work well. I will still move the servo to the boom when I get mounts though. That is where the tail servo belongs after all! :D

All in all the quality of the kit was excellent and working on the larger helis is much nicer. Everything is bigger and much easier to work with. Hardware quality was great as well. The kit even has a bag full of extra parts which is good because one of the E clips went flying when building the tail. There are a few spares of these luckily.

Setup:

Stock OBL 43/11 motor (Z30 rebadged)
TT Ace 75 amp esc
Cyclic Futaba 3152 servos
Tail Hyperion HP-DS20-GMD (very impressed considering price, $40)
FG 550mm blades and stock tail blades
Futaba 401 gyro
Futaba Fasst radio 7ch
Also using a Rx pack for now
Zippy 5000mah 6cell Lipo
Headspeed is at 2100rpm
Cylcic is +/- 5 degrees
Pitch is +/- 10 degrees
AUW is 3500grams

Maiden Flight:

I was very impressed with the first flight. Initial spool up was smooth and vibe free. It lifted into a nice hover and after adjusting the trim I started flying around just doing circuits. This machine is smooth and precise. Its hard to describe how nice it flies. I think it has to be felt. The weight definitely adds to the stability of course but it does not feel very heavy in the air. Loops can be huge as this carries so much speed through maneuvers. I think this impressed me the most. Very impressive to watch the heli just climb straight up without slowing down. I did one roll as well but I will have to try it again as I fell out of it a bit. Roll rate was probably around 2 seconds though.

All in all I am very happy with the Raptor. The next step will be to stretch it out to 620 size. It is really too big for a 550mm machine. With the higher headspeed it is still as agile as my Hurricane running 530's at 1900 rpm and it is much more precise in FFF.

Here are a few pictures of the build and the Eagle Tree from the maiden. Turns out I can get 8.2 minutes to 80% capacity. I usually fly around 7-8 minutes with my other helis too so this is perfect.

Enjoy the pictures!

PS. My only complaint is that it doesn't have a head button to carry it around by! :p

[heli_addict]

Gosh, that looks vaguely familiar... ;)

If you pop over to the 620 build thread, they seem to be drawing 800-900 watts depending on head speed...so be aware of that if you stretch it. Any other upgrades planned for the stretch?

Mine has been typically drawing 400 mAh per minute at 10s, which is about 900 watts with 600mm Align blades, flying easy 3D. I think the blades make a difference as well.

Gotta get me one of those EagleTree loggers. I'm such a geek...

Nice fleet, by the way [drool]

Oh, and take a peek at the Kasama head at some point...it's gorgeous, and has a head button.

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki,

What are your swash settings on your Futaba 7C Faast Tx. Im building an E-620 kit I received last Friday and am about to install the rest of the electronics. I only have the servos in now.
It is a very easy, straight forward build.

Are you using the stock 90° swash?

I hope mine turns out as well as yours did.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

My first flight with the high headspeed (2100) was running about 488mah per minute. With hover drawing around 25 amps according to the ET. A bit high for my liking but I can't go any lower without changing out the 10 tooth pinion. I have two of the OBL 43/11 motors now and I think both have a kv rated higher than advertised. My first one I have figured is about 1230 and the second is somewhere around there as well.
Calculated headspeed should be around 1900rpm for 22.2 volts, 10 tooth pinion, 111 tooth main gear, and 90% efficiency. My headspeed is at 2100 confirmed with the ET and an optical tach. And my radio is at an 80% flat throttle curve.
I am already looking at other CNC heads for it. :D This is one of the reasons I got the Raptor because there are lots of aftermarket parts for it.

Jimmy I will have a look tonight. This is the first heli I have with the 90 degree swash and it is working well so far.

I will have to go through the 620 thread again. I was wondering if spinning 600mm blades at 1800-1900 rpm would be less of a draw than 550's at 2100 rpm? But I need the boom and belt before I do that. And a metal head for peace of mind ;)

Cheers

[P-38J-Lightning]

Nice! You'll have alot of fun with it! Looking great man :)

I guess if you'd like we can let an E550 owner into the E620 Thread too :p ;) Kidding.

Joel :D

P.S. If anyone needs any raptor parts PM me, I got some I can unload fairly cheap.

[jamesppp]

Where is the best place to buy mavrikk metal and Kasama metal head and tail assemblies

[Kawasaki297]

I haven't ordered from them ever but probably will soon.

http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=804390

[gpach]

The CA and threadlock arent even dry on this new bird and already you are circling the wagons on the CNC upgrades.

Looking forward to seeing it up close. Nice build RB.

[litespeed]

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t463843p1/

Good price on a kasama head for the Raptor.

Tom

[P-38J-Lightning]

FYI, Maverikk is "Heliproz" Brand i think.

Joel :D

[AMA Outlaw]

Modefos has listed Kasama and Trex heads for the E-Raptors. Some folks like the cross-pollination (misogyny?). BTW, nice heli! I liked mine so much I bought a second one, but stretched it with a 600 boom to 570/580 mains w/95mm tail blades to lower the disk loading with the heavy AT 5000's.

[truthunter]

I been running a mavrik head on my E-Raptor for over two years... just a word of caution... The preinstalled bearings are cheap and get notchy quickly and replacing them is just about impossible without ruining the head. Also the tabs on the bottom of the head below the head bolt are known to break but mine haven't yet though I am not cabable of flying hard 3D. I've also tried the Mavrik seesaw with head button and the preinstalled bearings were notchy from the get go and again are impossible to change. Most of the other simple Mavrik stuff works good though like spindles, tail hubs, etc...

[AMA Outlaw]

Oops, that should be miscegeny. Anyways, if you want to run the 600 blades on the Z30 TT motor it could work if you're doing nothing more than sport flying. The longer blades really start pulling amps at higher pitch and power loadings. I'm using 540-570mA per minute doing spirited sport flying and some light 3D, peak watts are 1350-1400 on 570's and H/S with my TT motor w/10T was at 1950 for the last minute or two of a pack. Hovering at about 30-32 amps and 60 amp peaks. With the 550 SAB's I was at 28A in hover, 57A peak and used only a little less average wattage per flight with the same motor/pinion. I'd post a graph but have nothing current with h/s logged. Oh yeah, with lots of c/f I'm at 3095gr RTF with FP 6S 4500 installed or 2349gr w/out battery. Overall I love this heli, only way to make it better would be going to 8S.

[Kawasaki297]

I got another flight in today. It was excellent again. I really like the way this one flies. I think gpach was impressed too. The size is really impressive. And after only two flights I already purchased a few upgrades! :D
Here is another Eagle Tree and the new parts pictures.

I went with the 50 Titan boom and belt so I can run up to 620's if I want.

[Kawasaki297]

Kawasaki,

What are your swash settings on your Futaba 7C Faast Tx. Im building an E-620 kit I received last Friday and am about to install the rest of the electronics. I only have the servos in now.
It is a very easy, straight forward build.

Are you using the stock 90° swash?

I hope mine turns out as well as yours did.

Thanks,

Jimmy

My Radio is setup as follows. Your settings may be reversed though.

Swash "HE3"
Ail -50%
Ele -50%
Pit +45

All my pitch curves are linear 0 to 100%
Throttle curves are all flat.
Normal all 0's
Idle 1 is 80% 2100 rpm
Idle 2 is 85% Haven't tried it yet.
If by chance your servos are setup the same as mine then channel 3 and 6 need to be reversed.

[jamesppp]

Thanks Kawasaki. That will help me out a lot. Are you getting a full -10/+10 collective with the 45% Pitch setting on the swash?

That head design really falls into place on its own. I havent powered my servos yet but with the servo arms at 90° and the bellcraksat 90° it sure looks like the blade grips are right at 0° pitch using the manual ball lnk measurements for 120°. I wonder if all of the manuals only list lengths for 120 and 140° and make no reference to what the kit comes with, swash wise...90°....

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

I am getting +/- 10 degrees with that setting. I did have to change the link lengths though to raise the swash a bit. It was binding at full negative.
I am also only getting +/- 5 degrees on the cyclic but I have not tried to increase this at all and it is enough for now.

I put the 9 tooth pinion on last night to see how it flies with a lower headspeed. Should be around 1900 now. I will then add the longer boom and belt and see if that increases draw at all. Then I will add the 600mm blades and see what the difference in draw and flight is without changing anything else. Hopefully the power system is up for it. I can always put the 550's back on until I get a HV system in there though.

[jamesppp]

That sounds good. Do you measure the cyclic range from the paddles or use a protractor to measure the flybar / rotor angle.

Im also going to use a battery pack for now For my receiver power, As shown in the Finless Bob video, I bought an Align 6A BEC(really this is just a voltage regulator). It has a built in switch and leds shown remaining power. Ill have several 2S packs to power it with from 1850 to 2220 mah. I also will use the included in line step down to lower the voltage for my JR 8900G tail servo.

I have on other helis Kool Flight System UBEC's (Swift 16) and my Beam has a Castle 10a switching BEC and I have a Dimension Sport BEC on my JR Micro. None of the ones I have are rated for enough voltage for the 10S system Ill be running on this E-620 ..so the Align thing is going in.Hopefully Ill remember to switch it on every time...If not, Ill probably only forget once!

I have Hyperion DS-2 FMD servos on the swash( never had any Hyperion servos before) and the programming cable.

I dont have any data logging equipment so all Ill be able to do is tach the headspeed and measure the temps of the components..and hope for the best. There is plenty of room on this heli for some logging equipment though...it might happen..

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

I use a pitch gauge on the blades to measure cyclic pitch as well as collective. You just orient the blades parrallel or perpendicular to the tail boom and with the blades at 0 collective pitch hold full elevator or aileron and measure the resulting pitch on the blade. This will give you either aileron or elevator. Then rotate the blades 90 degrees and repeat to get the other cyclic direction.

I also have a HV bec that I can use up to 10 cells but I was too lazy to solder on the leads for it to my esc. I always forget to add the leads when I solder on the Deans connectors and I hate having to redo it so I just used a receiver battery and a switch. Much easier. I will put on the bec eventually though.

[litespeed]

I have been using the Kool Flights "UBEC" for years on high voltage and never had the slightest problem with them. I have 2 planes and 2 heli's using them, one being a gasser. They are small, light and easy to use and the voltage is dead on what they claim it is.

http://www.koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm

I always buy the 5 volt HV one cause you can use them on anything meaning high or low voltage and it's Futaba gyro safe. I'm getting to the point where I prolly could benifit from the increased servo speed of a 6 volt system. You need to decide for yourself what your requirements are.

Tom

[jamesppp]

Litespeed,

I have a Kool Flight UBEC, the problem is the label is long gone and I dont remember if it is a 35v or 40v rated unit. I do know the output is 5V.

[litespeed]

Litespeed,

I have a Kool Flight UBEC, the problem is the label is long gone and I dont remember if it is a 35v or 40v rated unit. I do know the output is 5V.


I think you would need to play it safe and assume it's a 35v one or maybe you could send it to them and they could tell you??? I seem to remember one time on my Swift after a major crash it tore the shrink wrap off and it was marked some how. I don't remember what it said though.

Might even call them or E-mail them and ask if there is some sort of distinguishing marks on the board.

Good luck on the quest and post your finding should you persue it.

Tom

[jamesppp]

You are rght. I wouldnt risk not knowing what the rating of the BEC is on this heli.I have a Kool Flight UBEC on my Swift and the label is gone from it too. I am just going to use the 6A Align BEC with some 2S 2220 and an 1850mah battery pack. I think Ill like it and feel safe with it. I am going to mount it toward the back of the frame where the canopy doesnt cover it and the leds will show so I know its on.. I think the 620 can stand the extra weight...for sure.

[jamesppp]

My Radio is setup as follows. Your settings may be reversed though.

Swash "HE3"
Ail -50%
Ele -50%
Pit +45

All my pitch curves are linear 0 to 100%
Throttle curves are all flat.
Normal all 0's
Idle 1 is 80% 2100 rpm
Idle 2 is 85% Haven't tried it yet.
If by chance your servos are setup the same as mine then channel 3 and 6 need to be reversed.


Kawasaki, thanks again for the settings. The swash menu settings were perfect. I havent set my pitch and throttle curves yet... Using Castle ESC's .
requires that channel 3 is reversed with Futaba radios.

i had to readjust my swash to bellcrank links. I just made them both up 2mm to long and my washout and flybar control arm balls were not lining up at center stick..Other than that it was good

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

Glad that worked for you. You should have it the air pretty soon I guess.

I had the Raptor out again today. It was a pleasure to fly and alot different than my other helis.

Here is another ET graph. I dropped the headspeed to 1900 and it still flew very well. Not sure I would be able to tell if I didn't know it was slower. It may have rolled a little slower though but everything else felt just as fast.

Current draw is better now! Now I can throw on the 600mm blades.

[Kawasaki297]

James can you please check your tail assembly for me and see if your tail shaft will move back and forth in the tail case? I am missing a spacer or something I think.

I also posted my question in the 620 thread as I am almost there. Just need to figure out the tail issue.

Thanks

[RC Man]

The most common mistake in building a Raptor kit is assembling the tail pulley incorrectly. Don’t feel bad as this problem has been posted hundreds of times. The small side of the tail pulley in installed backwards – just flip it around and there will be no play in the tail shaft.

[RC Man]

The most common mistake in building a Raptor kit is assembling the tail pulley incorrectly. Don’t feel bad as this problem has been posted hundreds of times. The small side of the tail pulley in installed backwards – just flip it around and there will be no play in the tail shaft.



:) :cool:

[jamesppp]

James can you please check your tail assembly for me and see if your tail shaft will move back and forth in the tail case? I am missing a spacer or something I think.

I also posted my question in the 620 thread as I am almost there. Just need to figure out the tail issue.

Thanks



Kawasaki,

Sorry I missed this post yesterday somehow. I saw your post in the 620 thread and thought you meant that the boom was not fitting well.

Hopefully RC Mans answer fixed you up.

Ill check when I get home from work to see if you got the problem taken care of.

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

The most common mistake in building a Raptor kit is assembling the tail pulley incorrectly. Don’t feel bad as this problem has been posted hundreds of times. The small side of the tail pulley in installed backwards – just flip it around and there will be no play in the tail shaft.

Excellent, Thanks for the answer. It looks like they have it backwards in the manual. I will give it a try after work.

[jamesppp]

Excellent, Thanks for the answer. It looks like they have it backwards in the manual. I will give it a try after work.


Do you just flip the pulley flange around the other way???

[Kawasaki297]

I think that is what he meant. I remember almost building it the correct way when I put it together and then looked at the manual a bit closer and it looked like I had it backwards. So I switched it to the wrong way. I will flip it back when I get home. It should be an easy fix as long as the pulley comes apart easily.

[RC Man]

Do you just flip the pulley flange around the other way???
Yes, flip the tail pulley flange (BK0051) around the other way. When assembled correctly there is no play.

:) :cool:

[RC Man]

The most important think when installing the tail pulley in to use plenty of thread lock to secure the pin. Put lots of thread lock in the end of the tail shaft before inserting the set screw. That way the thread lock will get squeezed in around the pin and it will never come loose. Just putting thread lock on the set screw threads will not do the job and it may come loose in flight.


:) :cool:

[Kawasaki297]

I got the tail fixed now. Very easy other than prying it apart. It is a very tight fit when assembled the wrong way and a loose fit the correct way which is probably why I switched it originally. Looking at the pulley it should be obvious which is the correct way as the guide is beveled a bit. I guess I was in a hurry.

It is now officially a 600mm heli! :D I got the boom installed and the larger blades and now that the tail is fixed (thanks!) it is ready for a test flight. The battery is charging right now. Hopefully it will finish before it gets too dark.

I also added a camera mount while I was working on it.

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki, looks good. I like your camera mount too.

I suck with decals, any advice on those. Do you use any liquid to help position them???

What kind of heli is the yellow one?

As someone recommended Im going to decal the stock canopy and I have a FG Mavrikk canopy coming from heliproz

Thanks

[Kawasaki297]

The yellow one is a little HDX500 (425mm blades). It is a great flier now but I would not recommend it. Takes too much work to get working where it should be stock. Quality is fairly poor too.

I find the decals pretty easy. Just trim the decal and the backing and then overlay it on the heli to make sure it fits. Then when you are ready just peal back a little bit of the backing and align the decal again without letting the pealed part touch the heli. When it is aligned just press the pealed part on. Then slowly peal back the backing while pressing the rest of the decal on. It can be lifted and realigned if you still leave some of the backing on and folded back until the last moment. Hopefully this makes sense.

I got the Raptor out for a test flight with the 600mm blades. It is a fair bit more sensitive around hover (pitch) now which makes landing and hovering a bit more difficult. I usually cut throttle in the air to land though which I find much easier and smoother than a powered landing. Power draw was not much more than with the 550's. Hover draw was about 3-5 amps higher. Peaks were higher though and I am sure the power system would choke if I really tried to wring it out. But it is great right now for gentle circuits and loops and rolls. Basically gentle aerobatics. It also sounds much tougher with the big blades! Not blade flex but just moving the air.

[gpach]

Nice solid headspeed with the 600s. I read back over the thread and you mention the TCs are flat but I didnt notice if you are in govenor mode or not? If not, why flat versus V curves?

Thanks for all the excellent pictures. Brings a lot to a build thread as well as the ET charts to log the actual in flight data.

[Kawasaki297]

This one is in gov mode as well. The only one that isn't now is the Swift. Although I think I will fix that right now as I just put the new tail servo on it.

Gov mode is much easier to setup than curves and it gives you a good headspeed as long as the power system can sustain it throughout the flight.

[gpach]

What ESC is in the Eraptor.

It seems you have very very good luck running in govenor mode. Very little tail wag and excellent HS control. Looking forward to the g550 results once you repinion and leave the esc some headroom.

Thanks

[Kawasaki297]

http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=36_41&products_id=2006

This is the esc. It is the same as the one in the Swift. Gov mode had a good tail wag in the Swift before because of the crappy tail servo.

I forgot about the little Hurricane. I guess I will have to get that pinion changed before the next outing!

rb

[gpach]

"little hurricane"......now thats nice considering its my BIG bird... :D

I need to put a the futaba servo on the tail of my 550 and try govenor mode again once I get the Z30 on it. The problem is Align is not known for making an ESC with a govenor that works. I wish I had one of those ace ones.

[jamesppp]

I find the decals pretty easy. Just trim the decal and the backing and then overlay it on the heli to make sure it fits. Then when you are ready just peal back a little bit of the backing and align the decal again without letting the pealed part touch the heli. When it is aligned just press the pealed part on. Then slowly peal back the backing while pressing the rest of the decal on. It can be lifted and realigned if you still leave some of the backing on and folded back until the last moment. Hopefully this makes sense.


Kawasaki, Thanks for the excellent instructions!

I like the 550 decals better than the ones that came in my 620. The 620 stickers look like an Esky HoneyBee or something.

I ordered a set of cheap 600mm woodies to try initially . It is good to know that my 620 G 5 wide blades might make the heli a little harder to hover as Im a little worried about setting up the JR g7703d gyro on my Futaba radio....after reading the thread with the yet unmade 770 set up video by Finless Bob, I believe I could set it up with a JR radio but I dont know how the gain amount works out using the different scale Futaba uses and the JR setup uses both dual rates and expo while keeping the ATV maxed out..Without proper setup it seems that a tiny rudder input may initiate blazing fast piros...maybe Ill get lucky with it..I just wanted to try this thing...

Are you going to put a Hyperion servo on your Swift. I played around with the programming feature on my Hyperion swash servos the other night. When I selected Futaba as the radio, it altered the center position setting a bit. For some reason, when I moved the slider control of the centering function, it didnt seem to have any affect on the position..Have you tried the programming cable with your tail servos yet?

Thanks for all of the good advice.

Jimmy

[jamesppp]

I
Thanks for all of the good advice.

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

Your welcome, glad they helped.

I have had the Hyperion tail servo on my Swift for two flights now. The tail holds way better than before. It still has a tiny little bounce when it stops but this doesn't bother me yet.
I have not tried to program any servos yet. I am not sure what the benefits of this are other than being able to center them easily. What are the benefits of programmable servos?

The Raptor is still incredibly stable in the hover. It is just a little bit harder to control the elevation. If it is descending slowly then the tiniest movement up on the pitch will make it climb slowly. I could not get it to sit still. There was no wind either while trying so I would have to change my pitch curves a little maybe.

What Hyperion servos are you using on cyclic?

Wish I could help out with the gyro but I have not used a JR before. The Logictech 2100t controls the pyro rate with the rudder endpoints. You basically set the endpoints to 140% in the radio and set up the travel adjustments then if it pyros too fast you just turn down the endpoints in the radio and the gyro still has full travel available to it. Maybe the JR is similar??

rb

[jamesppp]

Your welcome, glad they helped.

I have had the Hyperion tail servo on my Swift for two flights now. The tail holds way better than before. It still has a tiny little bounce when it stops but this doesn't bother me yet.
I have not tried to program any servos yet. I am not sure what the benefits of this are other than being able to center them easily. What are the benefits of programmable servos?


What Hyperion servos are you using on cyclic?

rb



I have the DS 20 FMD servos on my swash. Not as fast as the GMD but they have a huge amount of torque and holding power. They are metal geared but sound like plastc as they dont have the grating sound and have a fine tooth precise sounding action.

I have Logitech and Futaba 401 gyros. I had a little trouble initially with the Logictech manual. Once I found a setup thread here on RC Groups that clearly explained it with pics, it was a breeze
The confusing part of of the JR setup is using Expo and Dual Rates. It may not be nearly as hard as it started sounding reading pages of posts where people had differing ideas of how it should be done.

The JR gyro manual is a single sheet. I will just try it step by step as the manual suggests...there is just no support concerning Futaba of course.

I thought Finless Bob had already posted a set up video as it is on his Heli Freak video list. He has a few vids dealing with the Expo and dual Rates logic of the setup but has put off the actual install and setup video as he has decided to install the JR on a Compass Atom instead of the original subject heli...

The Hyperion programming isnt necessary for most applications. It is however nice to be able to control servo speed and you can greatly increase or decrease travel throws so that they cant be over ridden on the Tx. For instance if you wanted to use one a retract servo, it is easily done with programming.Centering is nice as well as being able to set up some of the push pull systems where the links are no where near 90° to the servo case and still have full throws in both directions.

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

What does everyone think the bare minimum torque required in a cyclic servo is for a 600mm bladed heli?
I am starting to worry about the 3152 servos I installed and am wondering if I need something a bit stronger.

Thanks

[RC Man]

What does everyone think the bare minimum torque required in a cyclic servo is for a 600mm bladed heli?
I am starting to worry about the 3152 servos I installed and am wondering if I need something a bit stronger.

Thanks

That depends on your flying ability. The S3152 is good for sport flying and learning basic 3D. A good extreme 3D servo should have 90 in/oz of torque and a speed on 0.14 or faster. The BLS451 is the ultimate servo for a 600 size helicopter.


:) :cool:

[jamesppp]

What does everyone think the bare minimum torque required in a cyclic servo is for a 600mm bladed heli?
I am starting to worry about the 3152 servos I installed and am wondering if I need something a bit stronger.

Thanks


Kawasaki, I have Futaba 3152's on my Swift

The Hyperion DS-20 FMD's I bought for my Raptor based on the recommendation of a guy that really likes thier servos but has only used the smaller sized of them as well as thier ESC's with switching BEC'cs

He told me that Hyperion uses actual torque numbers derived in some way that represents what is actually available as opposed to some mfg's that exaggerate the numbers. Im just taking a chance here and just chose the FMD model based on the torque, It isnt the fastest or strongest in thier line but seemed to have good numbers and reasonable power requirements

The rated torque and speed at 4.8v/6v is 98/114.8oz.in and .17/.13.

The servos move freely while unpowered like my Futaba tail servo(9452?)(Imdyslexic and get the numbers wrong) and the new JR 8900. They move easier than my Futaba 9257 on the tail of my Beam

I think Im really going to like them. Im going to run them on 6V and step the voltage down for the 8900 tail servo.

If these work out well then you cant beat the price. They are only a couple of bucks more than the Futaba 3152. Most placed sell them for less than 40 dollars ea. Also the spline pattern is compatible to Futaba. I have a box full of Futaba wheels and horns somewhere but I couldnt find them ..of course.. The hyperion servo horns are thick enough but I like very stron ones. The ball spacing was perfect on them

The GMD tail servo has more speed , less torque and less current draw whic of course is a good thing since it will be loaded non stop almost during a flight.

I remember when Hitec stuff first came out. We were afraid to try it for airborn stuff because it was so "cheap" I tried thier best steering servo in a buggy and it worked well. As soon as it became accepted by mainstream users, the price began to creep up relatively.They retail a popular analog micro servo for $35.00...There is a healthy profit margin in there Im sure.

[Kawasaki297]

I am using two of the Hyperion tail servos now. One in the Raptor and one in the Swift. They are working great so far and look/feel like good quality stuff. Hyperion is at least a well established brand name too.
I was looking to try some more Hyperion servos on the swash and move the 3152's over to something else. I can't say I fly 3D yet but it shouldn't be too far off and I would hate to see a servo failure in flight. So for the peace of mind it may be worth it to upgrade to a stronger servo. I was looking at the HP-DS20xTMD or SMD. Both look like great options and the price is right.

TMD is 0.16 speed, 8.0Kg/cm dynamic torque with metal gears and ball bearings.

The SMD is 0.13 speed, 7.0Kg/cm

I think the conversion from Kg/cm to oz/inch is 13.8 so that would be ~110 and 96 respectively.

These are 4.8volt numbers as I have not tried 6volts yet.

[Kawasaki297]

That depends on your flying ability. The S3152 is good for sport flying and learning basic 3D. A good extreme 3D servo should have 90 in/oz of torque and a speed on 0.14 or faster. The BLS451 is the ultimate servo for a 600 size helicopter.


:) :cool:

Thanks. I was thinking around 90 oz.in would be a good number too.
The BLS451 does look like a nice servo but I don't think I can justify the cost.

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki, who has those in stock? I didnt look very hard but when I ordered my Raptor kit from A Main hobbies, they didnt have any of the coreless motor servos in stock.That is what I wanted and I found a chart with the FMDxx coreless servos listed but couldnt find them. I thought I ordered the coreless ones at first but later I noticed that the ones I had coming didnt have ther xx suffix... Mine seem to be very smooth and strong though.

Ill know soon. I just have to get this JR Gyro set up

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

This is where I found them.

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3957

Good luck with the gyro. Don't be afraid to experiment if you can't figure it out. As long as you have the direction correct it should still hover fine. You can fine tune as you go. Besides it sounds like you have a good idea of what to do anyway and the Futaba radios are dead simple for HH vs Rate mode. None of the above 50% is HH and below is Rate and then figuring out what the % actually is.

The rest of the endpoints, expo and dual rates you will have to fly it to adjust it anyway. Are you ready to fly yet?

rb

[jamesppp]

I believe you will like the Hyperions. The quality seems to be there and I havent been able to find anything negatve about them anywhere.

My Raptor is only in need of some some final setup. I havent checked the carbon 620 blades for balance yet but I ordered a set of 600mm woodies that Ill put on for the initial hovers but they are taking thier time getting here. Delivery has been moved up to the 13th. I thought that might be a good idea to fly with them till it is dialed in . I should have everything ready for the weekend. I even got the decals on the canopy tonight. there is nothing but a big empty box..

This bird should be nice. It sure was a pleasure to build.

jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

What other birds do you have? You must have some 550's sitting around! Or did you jump up to 600mm size rather than build up slowly and realize you need something bigger after every new heli?

[jamesppp]

What other birds do you have? You must have some 550's sitting around! Or did you jump up to 600mm size rather than build up slowly and realize you need something bigger after every new heli?


Kawasaki.

I got a tiny tiny 2ch heli last christmas that got my interest in RC stirred back up. I flew planes for years and have a bunch of them.I had cars , trucks buggies etc but for some reason drifted away from RC in 2002.

i bought 2 coaxials to learn. They are Lama 3's. One has never been opened. 2 weeks later I bought 2 honeyBee Fp's and used one to learn to fly single rotor, the other stayed in the box till a couple of months ago. About 3 weeks after getting the HBFP's I boiught a Swift. My goal was always to have a big heli.

I bought 2 JR Parkmites. I have a flyer and a kit. Then I built a Beam in June and then bought a Compy kit and a guru Z kit both are little fixed pitch helis cause I missed flying in my yard in the afternoon

Now the Raptor. I know im going to love it. I can see the bigger helis better. I lose orientation with the Beam quick. The PM and Compy I just fly low and close and I dont like to get very far away with my Swift. Im not a good flyer at all. Ill get some better but probably will never be much good at it..but I have fun trying.

Bigger is better
Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

Im not a good flyer at all. Ill get some better but probably will never be much good at it..but I have fun trying.

Bigger is better
Jimmy

I used to think that too! I started with a POS heli that took lots of my time and money. I eventually gave up on it and started flying planes, which were and are much easier to fly. That was probably from ~ 2000 to 2006. Then in 07 I got back into helis. This is my second season flying them and I have already built up a decent fleet.
You will reach a point where the heli skills just click and you will progress much quicker. I always get to the point where I tell myself that I will never be able to do something. But with enough altitude and patience I get there too. The fixed wing flying also helps a great deal especially in FF and being able to fly through maneuvers where you might otherwise loose orientation. The size and precision of the Raptor will help there too.
I have seen others break through the barrier so I know its not just me.

Did you maiden the 620 yet?

rb

[jamesppp]

Hopefully Ill fly it in the morning.

I can hold a blade of a blade grip and turn them by havd and there is a tiny bit of play. Like if I hold a blade grip in each hand I can rotate them just enough in opposite directions to make justa little click. Is this normal?

Thanks

[Kawasaki297]

Mine wiggle a little bit from the minor slop in the ball linkages etc.. but no clicking or anything to worry about.

Good luck with the maiden. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If there are any problems they will hopefully show up before lifting into a hover. Just pay attention when getting light on the skids. I am sure it will go well though.

rb

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki, everything worked out pretty well. Some trimming issues. The 3rd hover of the day and I got a noticible shake. I believe I had put the blades back on too tight cause it didnt do it on the other 2 hovers

[douglas4]

:eek: A hollow main shaft. cricky just when I thought i was gonna finally go with a good quality machine i see this. Oh well back to the window shopping drawing board. what ever happen to solid main shafts. :(

[Kawasaki297]

Kawasaki, everything worked out pretty well. Some trimming issues. The 3rd hover of the day and I got a noticible shake. I believe I had put the blades back on too tight cause it didnt do it on the other 2 hovers


Good job! I read the flight report in the 620 thread. I am hoping to get out tomorrow too. Hope the wind lets you test that thing out.

Cheers

[Happy|Harry]

:eek: A hollow main shaft. cricky just when I thought i was gonna finally go with a good quality machine i see this. Oh well back to the window shopping drawing board. what ever happen to solid main shafts. :(

you do realise that a hollow main shaft is stronger than a solid one, not only that but it's lighter too ;)

phil

[Kawasaki297]

I got in another nice flight today. It was a beautiful day other than the temperature around -5 degrees Celsius. Good thing the sun was out!

The Raptor flew great but is starting to feel a little sluggish as I turned the headspeed down a bit more. I am just below 1800rpm now and will probably go up to 1800 or 1850. Amp draw is pretty good considering I am still running 6 cells. I am also very impressed that the OBL43/11 (Z30) is holding the headspeed so well. This was not a very gentle flight. Loops, rolls, and flips. Even a little inverted hovering for the first time with the Raptor. Incredibly stable and punched out well at the end. The two big spikes are entering and exiting inverted flight. It is interesting that the lowest current draw was while inverted!

Average amp draw was 30.39amps
Average watts 650 with 1394 max
3064mah's out of the 5000mah battery for 6 minutes. I'll add another minute to the timer.

I am loving the Raptor. I even learned a new stunt with it today!

Cheers

[jamesppp]

I got in another nice flight today. It was a beautiful day other than the temperature around -5 degrees Celsius. Good thing the sun was out!

The Raptor flew great but is starting to feel a little sluggish as I turned the headspeed down a bit more. I am just below 1800rpm now and will probably go up to 1800 or 1850. Amp draw is pretty good considering I am still running 6 cells. I am also very impressed that the OBL43/11 (Z30) is holding the headspeed so well. This was not a very gentle flight. Loops, rolls, and flips. Even a little inverted hovering for the first time with the Raptor. Incredibly stable and punched out well at the end. The two big spikes are entering and exiting inverted flight. It is interesting that the lowest current draw was while inverted!

Average amp draw was 30.39amps
Average watts 650 with 1394 max
3064mah's out of the 5000mah battery for 6 minutes. I'll add another minute to the timer.

I am loving the Raptor. I even learned a new stunt with it today!

Cheers


Good job, the wind howled around here all day 20-30mph..unusual fro October here.

I hope that I can learn to fly half way decently some day. I dont like the sim very much at all. I might like a better sim more but I dont use my clearview at all.

I took a break just now and flew a pack with my compy FP..the wind had died down some but now its dark.

Im going to take my Raptor to my field one day after work this week. I cant wait to get this thing in the air..even if it is just to putz around.

jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

I very rarely use the sim and when I do I get bored after about 2 minutes. Altitude is my safety net! There is no substitute for the real thing.

[Kawasaki297]

James what are your pitch range and cyclic setup on your 620? I was not able to get much out of mine but will have another try if others are getting more than +- 10 collective and +-5 cyclic.

Thanks

[jamesppp]

James what are your pitch range and cyclic setup on your 620? I was not able to get much out of mine but will have another try if others are getting more than +- 10 collective and +-5 cyclic.

Thanks

I got -10/+10 on collective without funny noises from the servos or binding anywhere. If I use 0 on the bottom of the pitch curve I get -12.

I just measured the cyclic and I have +-6. I think there is more available there...but Im not sure.

[Kawasaki297]

Thanks.

I just reduced my collective pitch a bit and increased my cyclic. Will have to wait until the next flight to see how it behaves.

[gpach]

I very rarely use the sim and when I do I get bored after about 2 minutes. Altitude is my safety net! There is no substitute for the real thing.

I too suffer the same problem.

I think that it has less to do with the challenge of controlling the heli and more to do with the penalty for loosing control.

There is no magic red reset button in real life!

Although I still tend to mess around too close to the ground!

[gpach]

It is interesting that the lowest current draw was while inverted!

I am loving the Raptor. I even learned a new stunt with it today!

Cheers

I have heard that the body of the heli "spoils" the airflow when in normal upright flight so perhaps this would explain a bit lower power requirements to hover inverted as there is no obstructions below when inverted.

What new stunt did you learn with the 600 this outing?

[Kawasaki297]

It was like a traveling flip. Start with FFF and then pull back quickly and give lots of negative pitch. Keep pulling back and time the positive pitch to keep the heli traveling forward and not gain or loose any elevation. It is not very difficult and looks cool!

[Kawasaki297]

I have now upgraded my Raptor to a 10 cell machine. It is running a 6 cell 5000mah and a 4 cell 5000mah battery in series. I got the 10cell motor/esc package from Heli-World. It seemed to work great today. Nice slow spool up and the governor held amazingly well.

My AUW is now 4150grams and the heli felt pretty sluggish today but the headspeed was pretty slow @ 1750. I will up this to ~2000 for the next flight out. At this low headspeed I could get over 13 minute flights though!

It was a beautiful day out today and all the machines made it home in one piece.

I have a question though. My hover watts is now up from before. With 6 cells it was around 550. Now it is around 650. Is this just due to the extra weight? My headspeed was much slower this time out too.

[rhampton]

WOW Kawasaki,,,It would be nice to get like 13 minutes of Flight time..I'm lucky to get like 5 or 6..lol.....I have the E550 and only using a 5s 3700mAh..Simple setup but i do have fun with my pattern Flying....Awesome Raptor..

Reggie

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki,
It would have to be the weight, right? You are producing more watts with less amps using higher voltage.

It was taking 24.8amps to produce the 550watts with 6S

It is taking17.5 amps to produce the 650watts with 10S

Looks like the 10S system is about 30% more effiecient and it is taking 16% more watts to fly the increased weight for a nice net increase in effiency.
It will be interesting to see how it does at a higher headspeed.

What motor/esc did you get?

Looks good. how does your buddy like the Knight 600E?

Jimmy

[Kawasaki297]

Yah, the weight is the only thing that makes sense for the increase. I did add about 625grams.
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/productdetail.htm?currentid=345&prtnm=CNE276PK
This is the motor and esc. Nice package for the price. Its too bad they didn't have a 12cell package to make it a little more future proof. But I am sure 10 cells will be fine for now.

The Knight looks like a nice machine and is much more nimble than the Raptor. The head design has more room for cyclic and collective than the Raptor. It feels and flies more like a 500mm or 550mm machine. The Raptor still feels much more solid, stable and precise in the air but I would like to get a bit more cyclic pitch. I still need to try it at the higher headspeed and I would like to get lighter paddles for it too.

They are both still getting setup and tweaked for now so it is hard to compare. The dry fall weather up here has also possibly caused some static in the Knight so it did not get flown much yesterday as the tail was jumping around randomly.

[Kawasaki297]

WOW Kawasaki,,,It would be nice to get like 13 minutes of Flight time..I'm lucky to get like 5 or 6..lol.....I have the E550 and only using a 5s 3700mAh..Simple setup but i do have fun with my pattern Flying....Awesome Raptor..

Reggie

That is a nice looking heli. What is the AUW with the 5cell battery? You must have built light to get 5 minute flights with that battery.

Cheers

[gpach]

Very nice looking Canopy Reggie. I didnt know a Raptor could look so good!

Kawasakis Raptor flies like its on rails. It will bennefit from the higher RPM. Its not fair to compare the two as the knight was running 1900 RPM with 620s and only 8S/5000 mah batteries. The raptor was turning 1750 with a touch more weight.

I think Kawasaki just needs to remove the flybar off the raptor and he will be off to the races!

[jamesppp]

Kawasaki, is your flying season over???

[rhampton]

Everything is Stock on My Raptor E550....I dont know how im gettn 5 minutes...Maybe cause my head spead is not a full RPM?? i do have it on Ide up one and i really dont do any 3d as of yet..Just pattern Flying....I wanted to move to a 6s and a 11 tooth pinion but it seems as tho stock everything is fine for what i'm doing....but i do wonder tho, if i did have a 6s what would i experience different compared to the 5s...
My Flying Skills arent complicated,,,,I just enjoy Flying around.....i was gonna put a fuselage on there and i know that's gonna ad a lot more weight...I Bought twinstar Fuse but then changed my mind. Just not ready for the scale setup just yet....i end up selling it...

Thanks for the compliments on the Raptor,,,just thought i'd upload a few more Photos of my E550 in different Mood swings...lol....It's the same Raptor,,,,It gooes thru Mood changes...or is it me

Reggie

[RC Man]

A 6s LiPo should give you more flight time and make the motor run more efficiently.

[Kawasaki297]

Kawasaki, is your flying season over???

Not yet! We are still flying up here. We have been lucky with the weather on the weekends. The hands get pretty cold but it is still warm enough to get out and drain some batteries.
I am charging my batteries now to head out in an hour or so.

The Raptor is still doing great and is one of my favorite helis to fly. I would like to get a little more cyclic pitch out of it but other than that it flies really well. It flies like a bullet train! Very fast, precise, and does nice big, smooth aerobatics. It is also very stable and is great for inverted hover practice.

It is 0 degrees C (32F) here right now and will probably warm up a few degrees before the batteries are done. We do get the odd very warm chinook wind that blows in during the winter which warms things up enough to fly. So even though it is rare we can probably get out a little during the winter.

Did you get your static issues resolved yet? My friend here with a Knight 3D has been having issues with his tail that I think is static related. It flew earlier in the year with no issues. I am hoping that grounding the boom etc will cure it but he has too many other helis and hasn't got around to the Knight yet. :D

Cheers

[rhampton]

wow kawasaki297,,u need to come to FL....I'm from NY so i know Cold...But moved to Fl a few years back..Do you guys have a nice large Decicated Heli Field,,,or do u ust Fly where ever..

Reggie

[Kawasaki297]

There are a few RC dedicated fields around but I usually fly in any open space that is free of people. There are lots of fields around that are alot closer than the dedicated fields and they are always free this time of year.

As far as 5 cell vs 6 cells, I like to set up my helis with high voltage setups just for the efficiency it offers. You can get just as much performance out of a 6cell setup as you can with a 10cell setup with similar headspeeds. Within reason of course. I know that 10cell 5000mah setup has more potential than a 6cell 5000mah setup.
My Raptor was using about 25-30 amps in general flight and hovering with the 6 cell battery and now with 10 cells it is down to 15-20 amps so I get much longer flight times but the flight characteristics are about the same.
There is also a price jump in going over 6 cells due to the HV esc, new motor, and batteries needed.
If you are happy with your Raptor right now and don't need improved performance I would invest in more batteries. If you get matching batteries then you can put them in series down the road and try out a 10cell setup. You would obviously need a HV esc and low kV motor but you would have batteries covered at least.

[rhampton]

yeah i was thinking of that myself,,,your on the same page as me....i have a 2 nice 5s 3700 Evo FP,,,the orange pak...i can use two of those to get 10s if i ever decided to switch to the E620 version,,,but let me ask you,,,,,can i leave everything alone and just go to a 8s? leave motor,esc, boom, belt and just switch to 8s,,,is that any damage to motor and other components? i would have a KICK ASS heli then...

i have another issue i desperately need help on but i'll wait for your response on this first..( just purchase a DX6i and cant bind rx (ar6200) )

Reggie

[Kawasaki297]

I would say no on going to 8 cells. The stock esc is only good up to 6 cells. Any more and it would likely not arm or burn up. The motor is also only rated to 6 cells but it would probably handle 8 cells except that the kV would be too high. On second thought it may work with a 9 tooth pinion. Your headspeed would be fairly high though.

Kv Voltage Pinion Main Gear Efficency Gear Ratio Motor Rpm Headspeed
1050-29.6-9-111-0.9-12.33-31080-2268

I would recommend getting a new motor and esc if you want to go HV. Century have nice power combos.

As far as Spektrum binding problems someone else will have to help there. I am a Futaba man.
I have done it once or twice on Spektrums without issue though. Just plug in the bind plug to the correct slot and then hold down a button on the transmitter as you turn it on and then power up the receiver. Here is a thread on it. Post #4 has a good description.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843420

Good luck

[jamesppp]

Did you get your static issues resolved yet? My friend here with a Knight 3D has been having issues with his tail that I think is static related. It flew earlier in the year with no issues. I am hoping that grounding the boom etc will cure it but he has too many other helis and hasn't got around to the Knight yet. :D

Cheers[/QUOTE]

I sent the HV 85 ESC to castle last week and havent heard back yet. Im not putting the other one that I have for my ordered Outrage 550 in it till I hear from them or properly ground the heli.

I ordered a set of aluminum idler pulleys from Quick UK yesterday.I think. Those and a metal tail case or a ground from a tail bearing to the boom would solve the problem.

Glad to hear that you are still able to get some flying in,

Jimmy