F3J Options

[Miraj]

OK, fellow F3J'ers, here is my situation. I dont what to fork out the $$'s to get a fully molded machine, I'm not at that stage of full comp and the wallet just wont open wide enough. So the next in line from what I have researched is the below list of "maybies"

Any preference of which may be a better model for thermalling from a bungee and winch. Or, are there any other that need looking at?
Needs to have Aileron, Rud, Elev, flap.

Mistral http://www.fvk.de/Englisch/Mistral F3J.html
Hybrid http://www.f3-modellbau.de/drupal5/en/page_hybrid_dbox_en
Hybrid-C http://www.f3-modellbau.de/drupal5/en/page_hybrid_c_en
Graphite http://www.fvk.de/Englisch/Graphite%20Voll%20D-Box.html

M

[Komet]

I own a Hybrid. Bought if from RC Sailplane in Aus. It's more than good enough for my level and relatively limited opportunities I get to fly at the moment. It's light and I found it penetrates better with at least one of the ballast tubes filled. The flaps slow it up really nicely for landing and it's taken some decent winch launches with no problem. It's a good value glider. I've heard it called a graphite clone.

[Tuomo]

OK, fellow F3J'ers, here is my situation. I dont what to fork out the $$'s to get a fully molded machine, I'm not at that stage of full comp and the wallet just wont open wide enough. So the next in line from what I have researched is the below list of "maybies"

I strongly suggest you to buy a second hand competition moldie. Pike Superiors, Sharons etc. sell quite cheaply now.

Ultimately the d-box planes you listed are like expensive toys. Ok for sunday flying, but you never see them in competitions. Wonder why? Proven competition moldies are much better investments. They are stronger, more easy to repair, fly better (!!!) and have higher re-sell value.

[KillerAir]

Why not look in the FS section. I just saw two TD ships available there. One was an Addiction and the other a Compulsion. Yes they are both older designs, however for the price of admission they will hold up to a very high level of flying.

Killer

[jirvin_4505]

Hi Miraj
Why not build something suitable?

Woody - go for a Bubbledancer
Develop you composite skills - Supra :)

cheers jeff

[regis]

Why not look in the FS section. I just saw two TD ships available there. One was an Addiction and the other a Compulsion. Yes they are both older designs, however for the price of admission they will hold up to a very high level of flying.
Killer
But they are in the U. S. and Miraj - I believe - is in Brisbane.

I agree that the Addiction and Compulsion make excellent full house Thermal ships at a reasonable price. They are easier to repair than a moldie and are competition capable and as well. I wouldn’t recommend them or a moldie to a novice though. Regis

[Miraj]

Regis
Yes, I'm in brisbane (Oz), second hand F3J's run between 1500-2000 for something decent, you may be lucky to score one cheaper.

Jeff, Yes, my plan is to bag me supra at a later stage, i was just after something for an all round thermaler, sunday flying and maybe some comp stuff that i can through some stuff in and go.
Someone was selling fuses for supra's fairly cheap.

As usual there are just too many planes to choose from.

M

[Jim Frahm]

Miraj,

My first F3J/TD plane was the Mistral GFK (fully molded). For the price you just can't beat it. I've also flown the Graphite with molded wing and built-up wing. The all molded Graphite is better suited for F3B. The built-up Graphite flies very well and is better suited for F3J/TD flying.

Juri (owner of FVK) was my neighbor when I lived in Germany; it was a lot of fun visiting him and looking at all those models.

Good luck on your search,

Jim

[bwilman]

Miraj,

Suggest you keep your eyes and ears open there are lots of good second hand moldies that sell much cheaper than the ones you are interested in above. Especially when take into account the cost of servos etc which are included in the price and they will be much stronger performers.

I know what it costs to build and you are not saving much after the costs of setup, materials and the failures a long the way, it is more about the pleasure obtained from the build process if you are considering that pathway.

Check the aussie sites often.

http://www.rctrader.com.au
http://www.rctradingpage.com.au/

cheers Brad

[Bill Henley]

:rolleyes:

[Miraj]

Brad
Yes, the thrill of the build, I do enjoy that side of things, I have a Sagitta XC about 3/4's done, plus a heap of models behind it to be done.
I'm a regular at those sites, both good and sites. Cheers for the info.
M

[skyboyken]

Hi Miraj,

have you considered an Ava? They are available in Oz, they allow you to focus on finding and working lift rather than flying the plane and working on fine-tuning the setup.

They won't launch as high as a mouldie and they won't go as fast, but they will hang in, in weak conditions and they will cover ground, just more slowly. Also, you can fly in Rudder-Elevator class so you are competing with similar models while building your skills and experience, and by the time you have your Supra complete you'll be ready to make good use of it ;) .

And yes I'm biased, I have ordered an electric Super Ava which I intend to use for both electric and glider comps by swapping the nose cone. Before anyone tells me that's not as efficient as a pure glider, the consensus is the Ava flies better with ballast anyway so I don't reckon on losing much in the way of efficiency.

Miraj, Go Great!

Ken.

[Tuomo]

Ava is rather hopeles as the only F3J plane. For any wind, you need a moldie. Period.

In F5J competitions, or for that sunday fun, Ava is very nice, though.

[skyboyken]

Tuomo,

we don't fly F3J in Oz. We fly winch launch 10 mins in 12 with f3J landing tape, and there is a Rudder-Elevator class in which the Ava is top of the food chain ;) .

Having said that, at the last thermal comp I attended the rudder-elevator planes were doing a really good job at holding their own with the Open (mouldie) planes.

Go Great!

Ken.

[becsta]

I fly what we call "open class" gliders in NSW - essentially F3J, but with the local modifications as skyboyken said above.

If you're only starting out in F3J, it's a long road to the top (unless you're a natural at flying). It wouldn't be unusual for someone like Carl Strautins to fly a Spirit 2m in a comp, and beat open-class (F3J) gliders...

That said, you're likely not going to do well without a proper mouldie - they're just too efficient, launch to the moon, and range out near your limit of vision. If you're starting, I'd second the Ava. It's reasonably expensive, goes together well, looks fantastic, flies quite docile and slow, can thermal off a cow fart, and can do quite well against the mouldies. You're not gonna win open class, but you could do well in RES.

You can get the Ava from Dave Pratley. I would recommend the Ava w/ Flaps (3.2m wingspan), not the Super Ava (3.7m span), for you. The SA is a light air ship day, whereas the Ava is more rounded, and can be flown on more windy days. Get a ballast tube for it too.

If you're inclined to go something a little sturdier, how about a 2metre class glider? These will compete quite well with RES, but it's difficult to score well against the open class gliders - it's _really_ difficult to do 10 minutes using a 2m glider in less than big-air days.

Actually, another suggestion would be to talk to Klaus Weiss @ Airsports RC about a moulded Kwarkinski Starling Pro. This glider is 2.6m(?), is fully moulded, is easy to put together, flies quite nicely off the winch (has a considerable ping too), is 6-channel (R/E (v-tail config), flaps, and ailerons), and may well compete with the bigger gliders. It's smaller, but also much less weight, and you get the experience with a mouldie.

From time to time there are gliders for sale on the various club websites, as well as Dave Brown's RC Trading Page etc, so hunt around and ask a few people if they know of gliders going cheap.

- bec

[jojoen]

Of the 4 mentioned the Graphite D-box built up with V-tail from Vladimir is an excellent model (yes I actuall prefer V-tail since the X-tail is not full flying elev. on this model). It can take most winch launches up to very strong conditions and ballasted is fairly good. It will suffer beetween the thermals comparing to new models but at the same time it will launch very high and will outperform most models in dead morning conditions. It can take a lot of beating. Is easy to repair and parts are cheap/easy to get.

A used Perfect, Aspire, Supra, etc would be better but the Graphite launches better on bungee and that was one of your remarks!!

Regards Jojo

[Ben Clerx]

Get a good used moldie. Even the older moldies like the Pike Superior are still perfectly competitive and I see them for sale all the time at bargain prices. In any case, you need a good all-around plane, and that would be a moldie (instead of a specialized lightweight like an Ava or a vacuum bagged ship).

A good TD ship won't necessarily make a good F3J ship, but a good F3J ship will usually also be a good TD ship. If you're looking for a new plane but don't want to fork out the big bucks for something like a Pike Perfect, don't forget the Nan products (Shadow and Xplorer are VERY popular at the EuroTour F3J events) and they are also distributed here in the USA by F3X.com and Soaring USA.

Lastly, you could vacuum bag your own plane, but you should be an experienced builder a vacuum bagger. Expect to spend $$ on lots of carbon fiber. Consult with the likes of Kiesling, Perkins and Wurts who know what layup shedule will work. Better to buy a used ship and spend the time practicing.

Ben