Wicked powered Freewing F-35 from BPhobbies

[The Don]

I just received the Freewing F-35 EDF ARF kit from BPhobbies two days ago and I am impressed with the kit quality and the price. Only $60 and for the ARF kit with EDF unit.

The kit was purchased here:
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=C2991676&pid=C2991668

I will be posting photos of my entire build and installation of the Wicked 4800 KV EDF motor into this model. The intent is to fly this on a 3S 2200 lipo pack.

See posts below for the build pictures.

Current F-35 status:

9/18/2008: Model is finished and ready to maiden. AUW is 15.8 oz with a TP3S 2200 Extremem V2 lipo. Watts are about 420 at the beginning settling to abotu 380 watts after 20 seconds. Thrust to weight ration is WAY over 1:1

[The Don]

Mounting the Wicked 4800 into the EDF unit:

Additional notes:

1) The adapter used for installation can be purchased seperately here:
http://www.donsrc.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=72

When purchasing the Wicked EDF motor select "Standoff with XF/Eflite plug" when ordering and the adapter will be included.

2) You do not use the collet portion of the stock fan rotor adapter. You used the adapter listed above and the special mounting nut that comes with the EDF unit.

3) Before tightening the Wicked mounting screws all the way down, test fit the rotor to make sure it is not rubbing on one side only. If needed loosen the mounting screws and adjust the motor position until the rotor is centered in the EDF housing. Once centered, tighten the mounting screws.

[The Don]

ESC and Wicked Motor Installation:

[The Don]

Thrust tube nozzle:

[rcwck]

How about a flight report?...................I might need one

[corsair nut]

don, that little guy is going to cook! looks like fun!

[Three-Wire]

Don,

When your new one arrives, I'd be really interested in some test data with the Wicked 4000kv motor on 3 and 4 cells...

[The Don]

How about a flight report?...................I might need one

It was awesome right until it flew away on the maiden!
Here is all the video I have until it flew away!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2IRrbE1vs

Don

[The Don]

Don,

When your new one arrives, I'd be really interested in some test data with the Wicked 4000kv motor on 3 and 4 cells...

I will definitley do that. I willget eagletree plots.

Don

[jemdesign]

Don,
What is the purpose of the thrust tube nozzle and spacer?

[SmoothCruizer]

thrust nozzle? lol its where your mind thinks its faster right? :D Don did you get that plane back? :eek:

[The Don]

My first one is gone, I can not find it. The new one is here and I will be working on it tonight. As far as the nozzle, the nozzle is added as the exit area of the kit is larger than the fan sweep area. What that means is that the air coming out the nozzle is slower in speed than what is exiting the fan. Generally EDF models want an exit nozzle of 80-90% of the fan sweep area. The nozzle I made is closer to 80% which gets a little more speed in a trade for thrust. Since this model is so overpowered as it is, the thrust is way over 1:1 so the smaller nozzle helps gain more speed yet you still get tons of thrust.

Don

[Sammy70]

Any progress or flights on the new one Don?

[The Don]

Yep, the Specktrum AR6100E lost signal and it turned into a pile of foam in the ground :censored:

Don

[turbored21]

thats it the freewing jet is cursed!! "halloween!!" stay away..

lol...

sorry don i was really lookin forward to seeing how well that thing went.. ive been looking into my first real edf setup gonna try for a real scooter as it were wanted to see how that thing went with your gear

[The Don]

My flying buddy Kevin (RCG ID "Spid") has one powered with the Wicked 4800. Went to video his and the elevon flew off and it crashed. He has fixed it and says it goes great. I just have not seen him since then.

Don

[Spid]

Yes, it is all fixed. I flew it with Dave's (Maz) F-22 a couple of weeks ago and the 4800 motor with the thrust tube mod is a great hookup for this little foamie EDF. Plenty of power, just dial down the throws. I'm running 50% expo and 50% servo travel. I grooves pretty good. Looks like a piece of (you know what :) because of the crash) but it flies real nice.

[Stealdesk]

Don,
Did you do anything to strengthen the wings or any other mods to the airframe?
Thanks,
Jeff

[The Don]

Nope. I would suggest using epoxy to glue the taileron hinges in though.

Don

[cshark]

Hey Don,
Does the EDF rotor adapter you sell that works on this plane work on all of the freewing models that have a stock fan?

[Spid]

Nope. I would suggest using epoxy to glue the taileron hinges in though.

Don

I agree 100%. (Don't ask me how I know) ;)

[Stealdesk]

OK mine is ready to go now. I was wondering if you know what you started with for control throws as there is no info on this in the manual.
Thanks.

[Remington001]

what mm are you setting the throws at? Mine will be here tomorrow and I'm hoping to get at least the maiden in next week. I live in NE Ohio so who knows. It could be March before I get a decent window to fly

[Spid]

My ailerons were level and my elevons had about 2.5mm of "up" dialed in. My throws were at 50% with 50% expo on both channels. Flew real smooth for me with this setup. I did not measure the actual throw travel, sorry.

Hope this helps.

[Stealdesk]

Test flew mine yesterday it has the 40 amp esc 4800 kv motor and bec from Dons RC, flight power 2070 lipoand AR500 reciever. It came im at 1 pound and 1 oz. This thing is very fast with a flight time of 4 minutes at WOT. :eek:

[The Don]

Awesome! Glad you are liking it. That power setup in that model is crazy!

Don

[hyperdyne]

I am busy building mine now. Has a 4800kv wicked with 40A ESC. Ended up using an edo rotor and plug. Hope to put a 2200 3-cell in her and an AR5000 Rx. I will also install one of my afterburner LED kits, as it can only help track such a small plane in the sky. I already have enough pucker factor flying the L-39 "wicked" rocket.

Don, I know your woes with the 6100. I despise that Rx. I have lost no less than 5 planes to that crappy receiver. I switched over to the 6200 and havent had any problems since. I am going to try the newer 5000 since it costs less and still advertised as a full range Rx.

[ian84]

Just fitted a 4300Kv Outrunner into mine, using stock 5 blade fan. Hyperion 2200 25C 3Slipo. 30A esc

When tying to measure static thrust. I noticed by accident..

The thurst i got when testing it with the battery hatch attach... was Less than with the battery hatch OFF !

the difference was huge..

on the scale.. measuring the air as it blows bout 20 cm up.. (i have a square peice of board ontop my my small digital scale.)

It measures 600 - 650 g with hatch off.
and 560 ish.. with Hatch Attach...


basically i am guessing. the stock motor does not suck Enough to strave itself of air..

and my 4500kv outrunner is sucking Way more... and with the stock inlets its not enough air comming in.. thats why whith hatch OFF thrust/power increases by alot!

I am planning to cut the back end of my Hatch off.. just where the last magnet is.. and make a small streamline scoupe on top..facing forward, to allow it to suck more..


Having said that.. there is Ramming Effect once she is flying..compare to static air..


Umm.. Also.. The outlet Cone everyone is talking about.. wat are we trying to achieve with them?

Any advise most appreciated.. as i am deciding wat to do next..

The plane with a 2200 25C lipo 3S flying weight is 470G . i can get a thrust of 600-650 with the hatch Off...

as far as 1:1 .. this got plenty WOT with her nose on the bottom of my palm.. she just spins there and really wanting to push up.. (Hatch OFF of cos..) and with hatch on.. she will have 1:1 but not strong..

and with hatch OFF, more than 1:1 for ages!

Please let me know wat u all think about my setup and issue..


Oh yeah. Teh Max Amps is no more that 30A.. 30A for only 5 seconds.. or less...



Cheers guys

[rcwck]

The outlet tube is called a thrust tube and airflow velocity is increased. It's figured by 80-90% reduction of fan diameter.

It is possible that the stock intakes along with all the wire and esc interference inhibits smooth air flow. Some rc jets come with cheater holes to increase smooth air flow. The new E-Flight BAe Hawk looks like a cheese grater on the bottom. I sometimes install some naca intakes to see if they help. Some builders think they are silly looking. I care more about go than show.

Some real jets have naca intakes to increase smooth air flow. Google "naca jet intakes" for more info.

I'm running Wicked 4800 on a 30-50c 2200 4S using the stock 5 blade fan and a Pentium 60 esc. I'm gettting 900 watts of power at 60 amps in bursts. Basically I breathe the F-35 upwind and make wot passes downwind. I have two runs so far and the only issue is on launch. It really likes to torque roll to the left. I use a bungie and I think around 1/2 throttle on launch is the best. I'm thinking speed is in the 120mph range. I will use the Stalker gun soon to get an accurate mph read.

I did install a cf wing tube spar and used Blenderm tape on all hinge areas. Everything is epoxed together with sprue holes made with a scribe were the epoxy goes. The rest of the build is stock.

[The Don]

I'm running Wicked 4800 on a 30-50c 2200 4S using the stock 5 blade fan and a Pentium 60 esc. I'm gettting 900 watts of power at 60 amps in bursts.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[ender707]

The Don-

I was looking at your site to purchase the Wicked motor for a Freewing F 35, And it warns not to use the motor with certain ESC's.

Can you recommend a brand of ESC that is affordable and works well with your motor?

I am currently thinking of using a "Turnigy Plush 40 Amp".

Thanks in advance, Glad I found this thread.

[The Don]

Turnigy Plush is fine. Set the ESC to "low timing" and "normal" startup.

Don

[ender707]

Great. Thanks for the quick response. I am looking forward to getting this setup together. And now I also know I should get the 'Dual Link' Spektrum receiver for it too.

Have you had any trouble with the stock fan?

[Spid]

Great. Thanks for the quick response. I am looking forward to getting this setup together. And now I also know I should get the 'Dual Link' Spektrum receiver for it too.

Have you had any trouble with the stock fan?

I'm running mine with Dons Wicked 4800 and the stock fan and have had no issues at all.

[The Don]

Kevin,

I picked up a new F-35 airframe, hopefully this one will last :eek:

[Spid]

Kevin,

I picked up a new F-35 airframe, hopefully this one will last :eek:

LOL! Ya I've got a new one in box sitting on my build pile. I'll see how the other one holds up first and then transfer the setup over to the new one. :)

[heh70103]

I set mine up with Don's 4000kv, Pentium 40 and 4s 2200 25c. I also cut some cheater holes in the handgrips. This is one fast setup and really fun to fly. I would say over 100mph. It is really hard to keep up with because of its size and speed.

Chris

[Spid]

Nice setup Chris. I know mine hauls on a 3s with the 4800 but it bet it's crazy quick on a 4s with the 4000.

[heh70103]

It is really to fast for its size. Half throttle is all you need and that is still very fast. Full throttle is for impressing the other people watching and unlimited vertical. It turns into a dot real quick.

Chris

[Smokescreen38]

Hey, Don!!

After some tuning, I am thrilled with your 4000kv/4s/Eflite fan setup in my Phase-3 EF-16. :cool:

Would this motor/fan/battery combo work in the FW F-35 as well or is 4s 2250/25C pack too heavy for this little airframe?

I figure there must have been a reason why you would go for the 3s setup.

[The Don]

It is a pretty small airframe and a 4S looked just huge. But I know some have done it!

Don

[heh70103]

I did mine with 4s 2200 with no problem. The intakes cannot supply enough air on 4s. I would suggest cutting some cheater holes and then there is enough air.

Chris

[Smokescreen38]

Thanks, guys... It looks pretty fast with that 3s setup, Don! Cool video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2IRrbE1vs

[Smokescreen38]

Don,

I just ordered my F-35....I'm about to order one of your power systems for it but I have a couple of questions first:

Will the Pentium40 be enough with the 4800kv motor, stock fan, 3s 2200 20C pack?

Can you offer any build tips? Do you think it needed any reinforcement?

Is there any chance that you would share your exhaust cone template?
EDIT: Just found the PDF on page 1...not sure how I missed that! Thanks... very cool of you to post that. :D

I know you have had bad luck but was the launch as tricky as some people say?

Thanks!!! Looking forward to having another Don's Wicked powered jet! If you have a decal for your company, I would proudly put them on my jets. Everyone asks me where I got the motor for my P3 F-16 :)

[Smokescreen38]

Nevermind... about the esc. I just went for it! :D

If necessary, I have a Turnigy 60A that I could use, though I would prefer to stick with the smaller/lighter Pentium unit so I hope that works!

[rcwck]

[Smokescreen38]Nevermind... about the esc. I just went for it!
If necessary, I have a Turnigy 60A that I could use, though I would prefer to stick with the smaller/lighter Pentium unit so I hope that works!

Smoke.........use that 60 Turnigy, a good 4S 2000-2200, stock 5 blade fan and let yer rip! Everything fits. You'll need a cf wing spar and some Blenderm tap added to hinges. That's the 4800kv set up that I like. Use moderate throttle on launch, she like to torque roll to the left.

[The Don]

Nevermind... about the esc. I just went for it! :D
If necessary, I have a Turnigy 60A that I could use, though I would prefer to stick with the smaller/lighter Pentium unit so I hope that works!

If you are going 3S then the 40 is fine, you will get about 350-380 watts on that setup and is what I had in my video.

Don

[Smokescreen38]

If you are going 3S then the 40 is fine, you will get about 350-380 watts on that setup and is what I had in my video.

Don

Excellent. This is the performance I was hoping for so I'll stick with this for a while anyway. :)

I'm happy with the Pentium40 I have in my EF-16...its relatively slim and light and works perfectly.

Don, thanks for shipping so quickly!! :)

...
Smoke.........use that 60 Turnigy, a good 4S 2000-2200, stock 5 blade fan and let yer rip! Everything fits. You'll need a cf wing spar and some Blenderm tap added to hinges. That's the 4800kv set up that I like. Use moderate throttle on launch, she like to torque roll to the left.

Really?!?! The motor will hold up to that?! :cool:

One problem with EDFs is that its hard to get a "temperature calibrated finger" on the motor to check the temps. Have you ever had a watt meter on it? Do the blades stretch and hit the housing? Some stock fans just can't handle the RPM.

Great advice about the spar and the hinge reinforcement. Thanks.

Don, do you have any thoughts on pushing the 4800kv motor like that?

[rcwck]

[QUOTE=Smokescreen38]
Really?!?! The motor will hold up to that?!

One problem with EDFs is that its hard to get a "temperature calibrated finger" on the motor to check the temps. Have you ever had a watt meter on it? Do the blades stretch and hit the housing? Some stock fans just can't handle the RPM.

Great advice about the spar and the hinge reinforcement. Thanks.

Don, do you have any thoughts on pushing the 4800kv motor like that?

I have run a good 4S on a bunch of Don's 4800's on many different fans with zero failures on the blades. I always check motor and lipo temp with an ir temp gun after the first flight. I never see temps above 110F. On burst I see 880 watts at 60 amps. Something very powerful happens when you add just one cell. Andrew Jeski had the last flight and after the flight the F-35 would still spin vertically in the palm of my hand. Realize with these watts you have to let her breathe alot and make highspeed passes. Timer is set to 3.5 minutes. I haven't had Don doppler or haven't used the Stalker yet, but I'm sure the speed is 100+.
Notice in pics the day-glow orange tape over the cf spars, which visually helps with flying, cheater holes top and bottom, placement of esc and 6100 rx and Don's thrust tube. CG is an inch in front of where aileron wires enter the fuse. auw is 20.5 ounces.
Go for it it's awesome.

[Smokescreen38]

Yep... its a rocket. :D
Thanks for putting together a killer setup, Don!!

This is by far the hardest to fly plane in my fleet...but its such a thrill.

[Smokescreen38]

So I think I found a flaw in the Freewing F-35 (one more to add to the pile)..

After doing a towering vertical climb out to the edge of visual range (thanks to 390 Watts of Wicked power), I throttled off and nosed the plane down into a free-fall...

After dropping about a hundred feet and picking up some speed, the hatch blew right off!! The plane flew very strangely as I struggled to get it back in for a landing, but it landed okay..

So taking a look in side, it occured to me what happened- when nosing over, the drag from the freewheeling (or stationary) rotor caused pressure to build up on the intake side of the fan...which includes the battery area... and it lifted the hatch!

Unfortunately, the hatch was never to be found and it seems like parts are not available.

Does anyone have a crashed one with a spare hatch that they might sell?

[ender707]

Recieved and built my F-35 yesterday. Used Dons Wicked 4800, Pentium 40, HS-55 servos, Spektrum ar 500 rx, and a 3s 2200 mah lipo. I used the stock EDF housing, but an EDO rotor plug and EDO fan. I got them with my motor, and the EDO fan felt a lot sturdier than the stock one. No thrust tube yet.

Flew it today and wow. What a difference from the F-27 Strykers I have been building and flying. The launch was a little iffy, but I was able to counter the torque roll and fly away ok. Got it trimmed and it was fast but tame. Just need to increase my throws at the servos now for maximum effect (a stryker habit). Looks, Sounds, and Flies great.

Dons parts worked great, and I will definately be ordering more power systems from the site for my next projects. I need an edf with landing gear, maybe the Freewing F-15?

[The Don]

Glad to hear it worked well and you are enjoying the model. EDFs are much more fun when they have a little extra power in them.

Don

[ender707]

I am liking this one a lot. I am on my #2 due to a battery restraint issue...

Also it turns out that this plane does not seem to like a lot of elevator throw. It made sense after my emergency landing and immidiate adjustments. It seems like if the elevator moves too much while pulling up/banking in turns, it acts like an airbrake and causes dramatic slowing and stalls. Low throws, no problems.

In other news I ordered another Wicked 4800 setup for the FreeWing F-15 64mm which I hope flies as well as the F-35 with the same setup. It is almost twice the size! Has landing gear though, I need a break from hand launch anxiety.

[Smokescreen38]

I just posted this in the EDF forum thread but I though more flight experience might be useful to people on this forum considering this plane/power system:

I finally took this puppy up again last night after recovering from my previous mid air hatch loss incident....

So I got two back to back flights on this plane with the stock fan, Don's Wicked 4800kv, Pentium 40A esc, 3s 20C pack, and a thrust tube roughly made from Don's template... and wow. I am enthralled with this plane now.

The launch is ugly every. single. time.... everyone who is watching you fly will cover their groins because it looks like "you don't got it." :eek:
There's definitely something aerodynamic going on related to the combination of thrust from the tail pipe and zero airspeed over the surfaces because this plane will slide right in for a power-off landing with no hint of tip stall....and you can go from power off slow speed glide to hammer-down with none of this issue... its like it only happens at zero mph and takes just a monent to recover from after launch.

Once its on-step, this plane is off the proverbial hook!

It will literally put around slike a slow flyer but transition into Saturn V mode effortlessly! :cool: The static thrust from this setup must be 1.5:1 power to weight. It certainly has one of the broader speed ranges amongst the planes in my fleet.

Top speed is MORE than enough for this tiny ship. I never stay at WOT for more than a couple of moments but it has to be right around the 100mph mark. It certainly feels faster than my 500W EF-16.

if it weren't for the bizare launch issues with this plane...it might be my favorite jet ever...but there is something exhilerating about saving it from a brush with death, then rocketing off into the stratosphere!

Thanks again, Don for putting together a great setup! This really might be the fastest EDF on 3s

[ender707]

Smokescreen38

I have found that on lauch I have the same issues as you. It seems that it works better for me to give it a good throw almost straight up at 75% power (on the same setup as yours) and just watch it flip upsidedown, hang around a second or two, then power out just fine. Funny, but it works, and avoids the more "level" toss lawndart issue.

[ecfarr]

how many minutes of flight are people getting on the f-35 with a 4800kv motor and 3s 2200 battery. I plan on getting the exceed rc f-35 but that uses a 1300 mah battery and only gets about 3.5-4 minutes.

can you get close to 6 or 7 minutes with this setup?

[ender707]

how many minutes of flight are people getting on the f-35 with a 4800kv motor and 3s 2200 battery. I plan on getting the exceed rc f-35 but that uses a 1300 mah battery and only gets about 3.5-4 minutes.

can you get close to 6 or 7 minutes with this setup?

I get more than 6 minutes using the 4800kv, 3s 2200 20c Flightmax Lipo, and a pentium 40 amp ESC. I am not at WOT the whole time though, and on a typical flight I let it glide on a few passes. I would estimate 8 minutes per flight using throttle management.

The Exceed RC F-35 uses a 1300mah battery STOCK. The battery cage can be limiting, but you can get around that eaisily enough. I had the Exceed F-5 which also had a cage for a 1300mah lipo, but with a slight mod I was able to fly my 2200s no problem.

After cutting the cage and removing some foam towards the nose, my 2200mah fit fine. I removed the foam where the nose gear servo had a mounting hole, so I created a new space for it and epoxied it on farther forward. Everything worked great. The CG did not change that much, as using DonsRC's standoff adapter on the motor makes the motor's weight sit farther aft than the stock motor would. But it flew great, all in all, until I made a bad move and crashed it.

The F-5 came with the top and bottom not glued together so you could run your wires and set up the nose gear, I imagine the Exceed F-35 is probably the same, and this same mod will work for you.