Trex 600-Got to share this Awesome setup

[missle]

I've been playing in this RC hobby for a couple of years now of which there's been a couple of things that have REALLY shocked me with it's performance. Well, today I must share my latest setup on my Rex 600 that is by far SUPER and far exceeds what I could've ever expected.

For beginners, let's start with the Outrage battery packs. I got the 6S 25C 5000mah bat's and they just stomp all over the others I've tried. I will admit that these packs are still in their infancy (about 10 cycles each), but so where the other packs I also had (TP 6S 5000mah extreme, FP 6S 4900mah). There is just more POWER! Nothing else can be said. More power ALL THE WAY TO THE END! Time will tell if there performance will hold after 100+ flights.
I had tried the Outrage packs on my 4S Rex 450 and was so pleased that I thought I would maybe try one for my 600 in the future when extra funds was available. Then at IRCHA, the Outrage folks had this deal where you could try their packs for FREE! So I did and I was hooked. I liked them so much, I sold my other new TP and FP packs and ordered FOUR of the Outrage packs.

The 2nd part to my setup is the eMultigov. The funny thing is that I had posted a question here on Rcgroups, asking if there was a governor out there that actually used the "True" headspeed to regulate a governor (as opposed to the typical ESC type gov) of which someone pointed me to the eMultigov. So I ordered one from a fellow rcgrouper, and installed it. I am sooooooooo surprised how much this 600 comes to life when it has the right electronics. I previously had the stock ESC setup at 90% and 100% flat throttle curves (also tried V curves) but was never satisfied with it's performance at the 4 to 7 minute points. It just seems like SO much power is wasted in the mid-stick range but if I lowered the mid throttle too much, the head wasn't responsive enough.
So with the eMultigov, I got it installed in less than 30 minutes! The setup I'm running now is 1850, 2050 and 2150rpm. So far I've got my timer (DX7) set for 6:30 sec of which the HS stays strong from the 1rst second to the last. The average I'm putting back is 3400 - 3800mah and that's with flips, rolls, tic-toc (my version of attempts at tic-toc's), multiple pitch pumps, flare outs, ect.... and so on. The best part is you just set the HS you want, the sensor READS the actually HS (no pulse-width crap here), and adjust power. When you land, you can actually see what the peak HS was during the flight.

Lastly, I noticed that despite changing out for the lightweight paddles, running a 100% HS, using new TP 5000mah bats, cyclic at 100%, and no flybar weights, my cyclic/collective response just wasn't "crisp" like my 4S 450 is. Then I started wondering if the servos have motors that will run stronger if I increase power to them, why not try running 2 of the Align 3A BEC's in parallel. Volla! MUCH better. So I immediately ordered a CC 10A BEC and that completed my needs for a much better, stronger, faster, and longer flying T-rex 600.

When I was at IRCHA, I watched all those SUPERB pilots and heli's out there and was wondering why I can't get my heli to mechanically (not the pilot part) perform like there's. Well, NOW I'VE GOT THE HELI TO DO IT :D :D :D

PS: Still trying to find a pilot to do it ;)

I'll post pics tomorrow for anyone interested.

[laughingstill]

Good to hear! Can you list your complete setup?

[missle]

Sure. I'll do a complete list this afternoon (or while I'm hard at work :) ).

[Happy|Harry]

glad to hear everything is working out for you :cool:, the e-multigov is one of the best governors available imho

phil

[missle]

Well Phil, I owe my thanks to you. I do have a question for you though; once you start using one of these, why would anyone NOT use it in all their heli's? I'm really curious as to why these gov's are'nt the normal in electric heli's.

[RC Man]

The eMultiGov is the best thing ever invented for EP helicopters – everyone should get one.

[Gadget01]

The eMultiGov is the best thing ever invented for EP helicopters – everyone should get one. Is it any better than the governor in the Kontronik Jazz/Jive?

[khaoz]

How about a video?

[missle]

Is it any better than the governor in the Kontronik Jazz/Jive?

Depends. Can those be installed and completely programmed in < 30min? Can you set the actual HS? Can you view the actual HS? Will they allow you to set the HS for normal, Idle 1, and Idle 2? Can you purchase the complete setup for $100 (plus another $60 for the Align 75a ESC)?
I've never tried the Jazz/Jive ESC/gov's so I hope the above questions don't seem lame.

[RC Man]

Is it any better than the governor in the Kontronik Jazz/Jive?

The eMultiGov uses an additional channel so you can have headspeed selection and forward feed. The eMultiGov monitors throttle movement and makes the initial power adjustment as soon as you move the stick. The other governors have to sense a motor RPM drop before they increase power. So until ESC’s start using an additional channel they will never be quite as good as the eMultiGov.

With the eMultiGov you can fine-tune the response as you like and there I have never had a tail twitch problem. The forward feed gives you a sporty feel like throttle curves do but the headspeed is constant as the battery drains.

You really have to own an eMultiGov to appreciate how good it is. I think there has been some production delays. I’m not really sure why but hopefully there will be a new supply at dealers soon.


:) :cool:

[laughingstill]

Anybody know what the safest maximum headspeed is for the plastic grips on the Trex 600 is?

[Happy|Harry]

laughingstill i'd say 1900-2000rpm on plastic grips, but ymmv

i have to agree with rcman, though the jazz gov is good and i've even got the CC45HV working as well as the jazz with the new software but the function and performance of the e-multigov is above both of them imho.

phil

[misskimo]

Batteries , MAN! 6S on a 600 will really test out the pack to its MAX! what most dont know is your killing your packs. the proper setup to get the best out of your system is to HV it to the proper voltage.
trex min to me is a 8S or above heli.

[laughingstill]

^^^^^^^I agree which is why I am building a 10s Trex 600

[missle]

Batteries , MAN! 6S on a 600 will really test out the pack to its MAX! what most dont know is your killing your packs. the proper setup to get the best out of your system is to HV it to the proper voltage.
trex min to me is a 8S or above heli.

Now I must agree to disagree with you on this one. First off, the continuous amp draw on the Outrage packs is ~ a whopping 125amps at 22-24volts of which they are'nt even close to being warm. With a HS of 2000 - 2150, the max amp draw was only 75. I'm running them for 6:30 min of which I charge back less than 80% of it's capacity. Second, in order to run the 8 or 10S setup, you'd have to change the motor (stock is max 22V), change the ESC (max is 22V), as well as upgrading the entire head to metal. Then you'd definately be running a much more powerful heli, but why not just get a 90 size?

I think a better statement may be, "You need at least a HS of 2300-2400 to do extreme 3d of which you would most definately have to consider going to 7S or 8S to accomplish unbelievable power like mines"

[missle]

So here's my setup:

Main blades - stock Align 600mm
Tail blades - Curtis Youngblood 105mm
Cyclic servos - Futaba S9252
Tail servo - Hitec HS6965HB
Gyro - GY401
Main Bat - Outrage 6S 5000mah 25C
Rec Bat - TP 2S 1320mah 20C
Radio - Spektrum DX7 with AR7000
Motor - Align Stock 600 1620kv
Pinion - Align stock 10 tooth
Paddles - CY Stubbs
Head - Align stock plastic/metal mix
Tail - Align stock plastic/metal mix
BEC - CC 10A
Gov - eMultigov
The rest of the heli is stock CF unit. Here's some pics of the current setup. I've still got some tidying up to do with some of the exposed wires, but she's good enough to have fun with.

[Greybird]

Uh, What exposed wiring? Looks very nice..

[misskimo]

well Im all about extreme power, so you should be fine with a 1850 HS and 6S

[missle]

Thanks Greybird, but all the stuff around the rec is going to drive me nuts :( I'll figure something out that's both cosmetically clean as well as being very functional. For one, I think I'm going to try one of those on/off switches that has the charge port integrated into it so I can plug my rec charger in there (as opposed to having to disconnect the rec bat from the CC BEC). The cool thing is I can get 5 - 6 flights on the rec bat before the 13.3 - 13.8 volt warning comes on (of which I've still got about 40% capacity left in it).

[missle]

well Im all about extreme power, so you should be fine with a 1850 HS and 6S

That's cool. I too like the extreme power as I've got a 4S 480 rex that's running HS's in the 2800-3000 range on 350mm blades :eek: Now that's extreme on a heli thats 31oz!

[byHISgrace]

Anybody know what the safest maximum headspeed is for the plastic grips on the Trex 600 is?

I've run my 600e w/ Neu 1515/2.5 at 100 flat curve and plastic grips. After hearing the stories about the plastic grips, I upgraded to metal.

The most important thing with the plastic grips is to not over-tighten them

GO GATORS! -> Fl cracker here lovin' the weather here in volunteer land

[laughingstill]

I got a crazy deal on an Orbit 30-12 so that will be the powerplant with an 18t pinion. That should give me some flexibility to run 1900 (at 70%)-2300 (at 90%) headspeeds. That way I ca fly until the metal grips get put on and blast it when they do arrive.....Ron

[missle]

Got a question for all you smart heli guys out there. When using the eMultigov, is there any way to know how much throttle your using? For example, if I set my HS for 2150 rpm, is the motor running at 85%, 90%, ect... or is the only way to see if I've hit the max throttle, by reading the HS redorded via the monitor after the flight, of which if I didn't reach the desired HS then I know I've surpassed 100% throttle range?
Also, since during setup you set the throttle range to max (150% on Spektrum), is 100% throttle now equal to 150%?

[misskimo]

hey , the way I do it , run it wide open , find out your max hsp on a fresh pack, to be easy on the system , you really dont wont to go below 88% on your gov. Stuff starts heating up then,
if your max HS is around 2400 , 2150 would be great,
thats what I ran all last year with my 12S trex 600 with the emulity gov

[missle]

So then I should set my emultigov for a HS of like 2600, set the throttle curve for a flat 100%, and then hover her at these settings to get the max HS she can obtain with minimal stress. Then land her, get a max reading and set my new idle 2 HS for at least 88% of that reading?

[laughingstill]

GO GATORS!
<-------------------I know!!!!

[Cloud Cruiser]

GO GATORS! -> Fl cracker here lovin' the weather here in volunteer land[/QUOTE]


Did someone say GEORGIA BULLDOGS! :D

Robert

[laughingstill]

I got the Trex 600 completed today when the Orbit 30-12 showed up today (thanks Jag72!) along with the 18 tooth pinion. I will get some flights on it tomorrow and I will report back......Ron

[misskimo]

Dang Ron! I think you are Very much HOOKED on helis? you trying to keep up with Ozace huh? boy I remember when I first got into it , my wife was ready to D-V me
13 helis in 12 months. had to have them just to see. then sold half of them because I didnt need them :)
Hows the Joker?

[laughingstill]

Joker is awesome and I do have an addiction. :D I do a lot of selling and buying though. Right now I have the Joker, 3DMP-E, Trex 600E, Protos, and Logo 10. I got the Trex 600 kit for $100 so I could not pass it up ;) .........Ron

[laughingstill]

I got two flights in with the Trex today and it is a really nice flier! it tracks dead on, plenty of power and smooth. It's a little loud but that was after flying the Protos and everything seems loud after flying that heli :D . I got a LARGE assortment of spares for it so I will not be afraid to fly t PLUS the parts are reasonable. I am sure I will keep this one and get some serious practice in with it............Ron

[missle]

So Ron, what's your complete setup? I switched mine to an 11 tooth with the HS set @ 2100 and WOOOOOOW! Now this thing rocks even more than last week :) Of course there has to be a bad side of which when I charged the packs back up, I put 4800mah in one and 4900 in the other! The amazing thing is that I could barely tell a difference in the power from the first minute to the last (of which they were 6:00-6:30 flights). The batteries were barely even warm. Man these Outrage packs really rock! I normally don't like to run my packs below 4000mah (80% rule) so I'll have to back the HS back down to maybe idle 1 at 1900 and idle 2 at 2000. I know there will be slightly less power, but now it's time for me to learn better collective management so I won't need so much power.

[laughingstill]

My setup:
Trex 600
Plettenberg Orbit 30-12
18 tooth pinion
Jazz 55-10-32 ESC
Futaba 9252 servos on cyclic
Gy 401/9254
CSRC switching BEC
3s 2200 FP EVO 25 rx pack
AR 9000 rx
Radix 600mm blades
Align CF tails
(2) 5s 3700 FP EVO 25 3700 lipos in series for 10s

[missle]

Have you tried the G-force weighted tail blade grips? I just got mines in and was all ready to put them on just to find out that you've got to have the 600N tail hub cause the stock one is too short. I guess I'll have to order one today. I also think I'll have to try a taller tail vertical fin as the stock one only leaves me about 1/4" between the tail blade tips and the ground. I think I'm going to try and find a rex 700 vertical fin and see if that gives me a lil more clearance.

[missle]

My setup:
Trex 600
Plettenberg Orbit 30-12
18 tooth pinion
Jazz 55-10-32 ESC
Futaba 9252 servos on cyclic
Gy 401/9254
CSRC switching BEC
3s 2200 FP EVO 25 rx pack
AR 9000 rx
Radix 600mm blades
Align CF tails
(2) 5s 3700 FP EVO 25 3700 lipos in series for 10s

I sure wish I had a couple of those 5S 3700 cause I've got a Deuces Wild that I'm thinking about running the 5S packs on.

[laughingstill]

I sure wish I had a couple of those 5S 3700 cause I've got a Deuces Wild that I'm thinking about running the 5S packs on.
What is that?

[missle]

Just my 1500 watt - twin engine - 62" wingspan - new girlfriend :D

[laughingstill]

Ooooooo!

[laughingstill]

Here are some pics of my TREX 600E:

[Old Sloppy]

What up with the gyro location?
better to relocate it under the tailboom, for protection of course.
A buddy just crashed his Logo 600, the gyro has a big crack in the side and the servo gears have no teeth at all.
the servo arm does a 360 degree swing, it looks funny.

Just want to save you some money (and heart ache too).

anyway the 401+servo combo boxed is $220.

Harry

[laughingstill]

I have always placed my Gyros there on almost all my helis and I have yet to hurt one of them. Thanks for the advice though.....Ron

[Old Sloppy]

I have always placed my Gyros there on almost all my helis and I have yet to hurt one of them. Thanks for the advice though.....Ron


I have (over the years) crashed many times (3 different heli's) and I have never damaged any gyro or the tail servo.

I guess I must be a "gracefull crasher" (if there is such a thing...)

Harry

[misskimo]

well crashing can ruin alot of thing, and they really aint made for crashing. but the trex 600 has a mount for the gyro , nice spot too. I liked it there. the rx can be placed on the side of the frames. but Ron likes it where its at. as long as at the end of the day, your heli is in one peice, then its all good.

Dang Ron , you planning on keeping that one a while. I had mine a year

[laughingstill]

Dang Ron , you planning on keeping that one a while. I had mine a yearYeah I have a MOUND of spares for it so I will be keeping it a while......Ron

[Old Sloppy]

the trex 600 has a mount for the gyro , nice spot too.


My trex 600e has
1) mounting spot on top of the boom and
2) another spot on the bottom of the boom.

(this is where mine is, just rotate it around upside down)
no adjustments are required, just a new square of doubble sided foam gyro tape. ;)

Harry :)

[missle]

So I've been playing with the eMultigov settings and flying the heli out of this heli and all is good EXCEPT the tail! It's like one second the gain is too high (shutter on quick load changes) to being too low (blowout on reverse tail down flight with wind). The gain has been 74 - 82 with the HS running 2050 - 2150. Like I mentioned earlier, I did order the G-Force blade grips and then had to order the 600 nitro tail hub.
Let me digress for a moment: First, G-force has a great LOOKING product but buyer please beware. First, they need to either include the 600N tail hub or put a warning on their website stating you will need the nitro heli hub cause the 600 electric hub will NOT work. Second, their instructions include M3 washers, M3 x 8mm screws as well as M3 x 18mm screws (for tail blade) of which NONE of these are included in the kit (nor are they on a stock tail). So again I had to put in another darn order for parts to complete the tail assembly. Is there ANYBODY that makes a good product anymore? .

Okay, I'm done whinning so back to the install. So I installed the tail and the only snag was that one of the grips had to be pryed open (approx 1/2mm) so that the tail blade could fit (the other one was perfect). I know the instructions state that there should be some play, but it is really nerve wrecking to see the play in the tail grips while knowing that the M3x8mm screw is only being held by blue locktight. Anyways, I took her out for a test hover and holy crap the entire thing almost vibrated into a billion pieces. My gain in normal mode was at 88 (which was without vibe on the stock setup) but I ended up turning it down to 78 to get the normal mode vibe to stop. Then I went to idle1 and the same thing. The gain was at 82 so I ended up having to turn it down to 75 of which there was still some flutter with hard 45 deg tail spins/stops but I ran out of sunlight to continue testing and reducing gain. I've not even got to testing to see if the tail is going to blow out with reverse flight.
I hate to say it, but so far I'm really dissapointed in these grips so far. I did however notice that there's about 2-3mm more travel space on the tail shaft so I'm going to re-set up the gyro/tail mechanics as well as a re-bind to see if things are any better.
For those running the weighted tail blades, is it normal to have to reduce the gain after installing them? If so, is it cause the servo input is actually more effective cause the blades can be moved so much easier?

[rdespins]

yes I had to turn my gain down on my T450 that had a weighted tail. Your servo is barely working now.

[RC Man]

I don’t think much of G-Force products. Kasama has much higher quality products.

[missle]

I don’t think much of G-Force products. Kasama has much higher quality products.

RC Man, I've heard nothing but good things about Kasama products so I'm sure your right. I went to their website this morning to cruise through their 600e upgrades and boy was their head design different. The problem is that they don't have any pics with the head or tail assembled, their are no descriptions on it's application, and they don't have a weighted tail grip. Thanks for the recomendation though.

So last night, something told me to take the tail blades off and check to see if the M3x8mm bolts were holding (remember they are only held with threadlock) and holy shiiii, THEY WERE LOOSE :eek: :mad: One more flight and the blades would've been launched across the field. That was lucky but oh so bad. So, after reading several threads on fixes for the G-Force grips, I decided to go against the grain and I used the permanent Red Threadlock. My reasoning is simple, don't want the grips to come off but also don't want to tighten the bolt to the thrust bearings. I figured the only reason I'd ever have to remove the blade grips from the tail hub is after a crash in which they'd have to be replaced anyways. I'm not worried about the tail hub as they are only a couple of bucks so this way, the grips and hub can be removed as a single unit.
I checked the bolts this morning (they dried in place over night) and now they're as tight as my wifes purse is :D Hopefully I'll get a chance to try them today with the gain turned down, but the rain is here and spoilling any chances of that.

[Old Sloppy]

Is there ANYBODY that makes a good product anymore? [/I].




Kasama ;)


Harry

[Happy|Harry]

. Is there ANYBODY that makes a good product anymore? .



Quick UK ;)

phil