JR 12X versus 9303

[SaltyOne]

Are there enough advantages to the JR 12X over the 9303 to justify the expense of changing Tx's for sailplane use? I was playing with one at my LHS and it looked nice. There are a lot of extra buttons and trims compared to the 9303. I particularly like the trims on the upper corners of the sticks (of course I don't know what they do). The only problem is the price is about 3 times the 9303. The LHS owner said JR is having a promotion if you buy a 12X you can buy any Rx and get a second Rx for free. I got the impression you could buy as many Rx's as you want with the promotion deal. The promotion is supposed to expire at the end of the month. This helps a little bit with the price problem. Another problem, other than price, is the Data Safe is proprietary to the 12X. Apparently the 12X Data Safe is incompatible with the Data Safe with my 9303, so all settings would need to be reentered into the 12X. You would think the engineers at JR would be smarter than this. Putting this asidehowever, I'll probably switch if there are enough advantages. Any comments are appreciated.

George

[mlachow]

For converting from 9303 to 12X, you can copy equivalent mix and setting values from 9303 menus to 12X menus. You only need to double the values when copying from the 9303 butterfly menu to 12X brake menu. At least you can preserve your old programs without much effort. Once nice part about most JR radios for a long, long time is you could copy program settings between different radio models at least manually and be ready to go. I've done it with 8 models already for 9303 to12X.


The USB interface (not older serial data safe) does work with both the 12X and 9303. However it does not translate programs for you. There are two different interfaces.

The RX promotion is like they had on all the other radios earlier in the year before 12X was available. I think it's good for up to two free RX's. But check with your LHS for details.

The extra trims you noticed on the corners of the sticks are the same as the 9303 aux trim, flap trim or hov pitch hob thro if you had the Heli version.

You will notice the 12X has more 3-position switches. So there is no need to decide between aircraft or heli switch positions.

If you do scale stuff or want to go to 6 servos in wings or even 8 if you have two spoilers, the 12X already has all the sailplane mixes built in. Nothing extra to set up.

If you don't like the flap aux trim method of setting your wing up for flight modes, the 12X now has a CAMB menu that lets you set the aileron and flap positions for all six wing servos (if you have 6) individually. If you use the trims to set things, the trim step is now 3 instead of 4.

More options on mixes for how you select your mix0 mix1 settings on the programmable mixers.

More options on timers than the 9303.


Then there is a bunch of other stuff I haven't even had a chance to play with.

And the screen looks even nicer than the 9303.

[SaltyOne]

Mlachow - thanks for the info. It sounds like it has some pretty nice features. One thing I forgot to mention is the LHS said the servo step resolution is 2048 instead of 1024. This might be valuable for very accurate elevator control and smoother flying. Mere mortals like myself probably wouldn't notice any difference. Someone like Gordy could claim there is a big difference. Have you noticed a difference? Thanks.

George

[jtlsf5]

Mlachow - thanks for the info. It sounds like it has some pretty nice features. One thing I forgot to mention is the LHS said the servo step resolution is 2048 instead of 1024. This might be valuable for very accurate elevator control and smoother flying. Mere mortals like myself probably wouldn't notice any difference. Someone like Gordy could claim there is a big difference. Have you noticed a difference? Thanks.

George


I believe Mike flies 2.4G , so the difference between a 1024 and 2048 processor probably wouldn't show up very well. Someone flying 72 might see a difference.

JT

[mlachow]

I do fly 2.4G. I started flying with the modules. When you go from 72 to a native 2.4 transmitter, either the 12X or 9303 2.4, you should notice a difference in response time. If you happened to be doing it on an existing model, e.g. you copied 9303 program to 9303 2.4, then you will notice it on launch with your timing on the zoom and on landings. I do have one model, an Aegea 2M which weighs all of 23 oz where you really need all the speed you can get because the dive and pull up for zoom is so fast with such a light model. Not quite as critical on bigger or heavier models.

The higher resolution on the servos only appears if you have servos and control linkages good enough to produce that. With the 12X, you can sit there and tweak your flaps and ailerons individually down to that small step if you want to go crazy setting you your wing and your linkages are good enough.

I believe Mike flies 2.4G , so the difference between a 1024 and 2048 processor probably wouldn't show up very well. Someone flying 72 might see a difference.

JT

[IBWALT]

Are there enough advantages to the JR 12X over the 9303 to justify the expense of changing Tx's for sailplane use?

The 12X is an awesome radio but I'm still not using all of the whistles and bells on my 9303. I suppose if I were JW (not Jack Womack :D ) or was big into scale ships it would be the radio to have and I would have to start saving. But just being a weekend competitor/hobbyist I am going to stick with my trusty X9303.

Walt

[SaltyOne]

"The higher resolution on the servos only appears if you have servos and control linkages good enough to produce that. With the 12X, you can sit there and tweak your flaps and ailerons individually down to that small step if you want to go crazy setting you your wing and your linkages are good enough." Mlachow

The LHS told me the higher resolution is important to serious Pattern flyers. This makes sense to me as regular TD flights are at low airspeeds and Pattern flying is at a higher speed and is very precise. Maybe an F3B pilot would benefit from the higher resolution in the speed task.

I'm a little confused. Is the 2048 the number of steps per degree of servo rotation, or is it the number of steps over the full range of servo rotation? If it is the former, I don't see how anyone could sense a difference.

George

[jtlsf5]

"The higher resolution on the servos only appears if you have servos and control linkages good enough to produce that. With the 12X, you can sit there and tweak your flaps and ailerons individually down to that small step if you want to go crazy setting you your wing and your linkages are good enough." Mlachow

The LHS told me the higher resolution is important to serious Pattern flyers. This makes sense to me as regular TD flights are at low airspeeds and Pattern flying is at a higher speed and is very precise. Maybe an F3B pilot would benefit from the higher resolution in the speed task.

I'm a little confused. Is the 2048 the number of steps per degree of servo rotation, or is it the number of steps over the full range of servo rotation? If it is the former, I don't see how anyone could sense a difference.

George

The latter. In a simple sense you could think of it as the number of divisions that the total servo throw is divisible by. Its a bit more complicated than this when you take centering, mixing, end point, and all the other perturbations into account. Regardless, 2048 has twice the available resolution of a 1024 system. What Mike is adding is that to realize any gain, your linkages have to be tight and slop free.

JT

[Larry Jolly]

Mike,
Described it pretty well, but I would like to mention my favorites. First you have 5 flight modes you name them and you choose which 3 position switch you use. Each flight mode has it's own elevator trim, trailing edge set point, diff, expo, ail -rud mix etc. You can now set the trailing edge camber indivuidually instead of flaps and ailerons as pairs like the 9303. Very helpful if your horns are not the same. On the Diff menu you can set the Braking Diff for each flight mode. You have 4 indivuidual stick switches and set points for determining the point they become effective. The radio is very cool and has a bunch of capability. Larry Happy 12x Guy

[tewatson]

Each flight mode has it's own elevator trim, trailing edge set point, diff, expo, ail -rud mix etc. You can now set the trailing edge camber individually instead of flaps and ailerons as pairs like the 9303. You have 4 individual stick switches and set points for determining the point they become effective.
Those are my favorite features...besides the feel of the case and gimbals.

I spent several years on the 10X and ran out of capability. The 9303 fixed some of that, now the 12X takes it even further. The only thing that would make it perfect is the capability to activate a true flight mode with a stick switch.

Tom
New 12X guy

[mlachow]

Larry is correct, there are additional features I haven't tried to figure out yet. One is the breaking differential, which will change things like aileron differential relative to how far you have moved the landing stick. I don't use a huge amount of crow and normally have my ailerons move on a curve, first moving down for about the first 20% of travel so entire trailing edge moves down, then they come up later when I get to full throw.

The other cool feature is called balance. This is for the guys who can't set horns at the same length or set the initial angle on the servo arm to match on both wings. It lets you tweak things so that them move the same even though the geometry sucks.

Sorry infinite programability guys, but it doesn't do that.
It does provide four different stick position switches if you like that. And it does add the ability to and multiple switches together for those who like that logic approach. JR has always had two totally different mix values rather than just on or off, so you could usually do things using that way. But with flight modes, it might be simpler for some folks to say when I'm in this flight mode and this switch is in this position, then you get the position 1 mix rate instead of the position 0 mix rate.

[SmokinJoe101]

So the question remains is the 12X worth $1000 more that a X9303? :eek:

From a happy X9303 user :)

sj

[mlachow]

Depends on what you fly and what you really care about. For most TD pilots, the X9303 2.4 is more than you'll ever use.

[Larry Jolly]

Jetz,
No Elitist here! Merely explaining the features in comparison to the 9303. If you think the 12X is bling you are probably right it is more radio that you need to enjoy your Hobby. As for the dig on better building, A good friend just got a top of the line F3B model in, that has the Left Flap- Right Flap horn geometry slightly out of sync as factory installed. With the 9303 when you drop flaps for launch they come down together. We were able to get an acceptable workaround by manipulating the end points and trim centers. It was a Mickey Mouse deal but got us flying. It would have been so much easier and more Precise with the 12X. I can't remember having a better radio and I have flown quite a few professionally and for the Hobby. Larry

[OVSS Boss]

Larry,
I am starting to get a handle with my new 12X, and WOW, what a platform for setting up ships!

It is just such a precision instrument compared to anything I have ever had aswell.

Marc

[Larry Jolly]

Marc,
Yea it is so much fun learning a new radio. I look forward to hanging out with the Red Shirt Gang at the Masters, and see what you guys figured out that I didn't pick up on. I always end up with one of those, I wish I would of that of that moments. Keep working with it We can swap programs. LJ

[Ronald Mong]

Are manuals available for the 2.4 - 9303 and the 12x?
Trying to decide between the two.

TIA

Ron Mong

[jtlsf5]

Are manuals available for the 2.4 - 9303 and the 12x?
Trying to decide between the two.

TIA

Ron Mong

All are available for download at www.jrradios.com.

JT

[SaltyOne]

The documentation included with the 12X is way better than the documentation included with the 9303. It also comes with a nice aluminum carry case, but that's the kind of bling I don't really need.

George

[mlachow]

x9303 2.4 has a 1500 mah TX pack. The 12X is a 2000 mah TX pack.

You can adjust the stick tension on the 12X without removing the back of the radio.

The 12X probably has a better feel on the 0 point on the sliders as well as the knobs (which the 9303 doesn't have) and the beep at 0 is pretty loud.

12X antenna is easier to adjust to get a nice angle on it however you hold the TX.

For the strap hangers, the 12X is balanced properly for the strap. The 9303 was originally designed for a 72 antenna, and is out of balance in the 2.4 version so there are an assortment of hanger adjusters out there.

You can store an extra 72 antenna for your friends in the 12x......


And for those that have to have both 72 and native 2.4, the 12X is the way to go compared to using modules in a regular 9303.

[timbigley]

Is the 12x on the same level as the MC24?

TimB

[Tuomo]

Bling bling features are nice, but I agree with Larry - advanced servo travel adjustments are not bling. They are important and very practical. If you take a critical look at symmetry aileron travel/differential and flap movements, you will find how difficult they are to get mechanical 100% right.

The funny thing is JR pricing, which is very different from comparable Graupner pricing in Europe. 35 Mhz mc-22 is about 450e, mx-22 anout 600e, mx-24 about 730e and mc-24 about 900e. The difference between mx 22 and 24, being only 130e!!!

I am currently flying with mc-24, and I lreally like the tray-layout and travel adjustments, but I might move to mx-24. It has some nice new features, like a scanner. A 9 channel JR (9X II) sells here as low as 200e, which makes it ideal back up tx for a sailplane pilot.

[AWorrest]

Several comments. The 9303 has 2048 resolution when used with the R921 (or 9 channels and more) receivers.

Of course your LHS may have its own promotion but the one that Horizon has requires that you buy an additional receiver before you get a free one. For integral 2.4 system that comes with a receiver you have to buy another. That means you end up with three receivers. If you buy to two additional receivers, Horizon will send you two more for a total of five!

The MV modular version has a really nice 72MHz alternate system. The RF module incorporates a frequency scanner. It is not full time but only works when in using the System menus. It also remembers what frequency is associated with which model. If you get the MV, don't plan on switching RF modules on a regular basis. The module pins are not as sturdy as those on the crystal controlled RF modules. Otherwise, the MV has the same performance as the integral 2.4GHz transmitter.

I haven't tried it yet but I think you set the 12X up for an 8 servo wing: four ailerons, two flaps, and two spoilers. While it may seem trivial, one feature I like is that you can set the timer to beep at regular intervals, something that was on the 8103 but dropped on the 9303.

Allan

[OVSS Boss]

Larry,
Tk and I have been having 45+ minute phone calls comparing what we are doing with the radio and how to get to different things via different ways.

You are right, new radios are a blast!

Marc

[tewatson]

On the Diff menu you can set the Braking Diff for each flight mode.
Larry - Mike,
I'm trying to figure out what the setting value reference is... On the Differential menu there is a "Break" (should be brake?) setting for each FM that can only be set between zero and 100%. Is this value is the percentage of aileron differential "removed" from the primary setting?

Example: if aileron differential is 50% and break/brake differential is 50%, with the flap stick pulled down is differential effectively now 25%?

It does not appear to be true negative differential capability, because travel on the upward moving aileron is not affected - it only increases travel on the downward moving surface.

Tom

[jtlsf5]

Larry - Mike,
I'm trying to figure out what the setting value reference is... On the Differential menu there is a "Break" (should be brake?) setting for each FM that can only be set between zero and 100%. Is this value is the percentage of aileron differential "removed" from the primary setting?

Example: if aileron differential is 50% and break/brake differential is 50%, with the flap stick pulled down is differential effectively now 25%?

It does not appear to be true negative differential capability, because travel on the upward moving aileron is not affected - it only increases travel on the downward moving surface.

Tom

Tom,
Page S-30 covers it. Brake (Break) just reduces the absolute amount programmed to Diff for each flight mode, so it ratios what you entered for that flight mode. To my reading, you can't change from positive to negative with the Brake setting; only at the flight mode Diff setting you can select positive or negative.

JT (12X wannabe)

[tewatson]

Saw that, but it doesn't really explain what the numbers mean. I think my assumption is correct - it's a percentage of decrease (e.g., 100% means all the differential is removed).

I was hoping to actually get some real stick time today, but cannot break away. Drat.

Tom

[IBWALT]

For converting from 9303 to 12X, you can copy equivalent mix and setting values from 9303 menus to 12X menus. You only need to double the values when copying from the 9303 butterfly menu to 12X brake menu. At least you can preserve your old programs without much effort. Once nice part about most JR radios for a long, long time is you could copy program settings between different radio models at least manually and be ready to go. I've done it with 8 models already for 9303 to12X.

mlachow, when you say copy do you mean manually copy or can you connect the 9303 to the 12X via the dsc cable?

Walt

[Hoot]

Walter,
Are you considering a 12X?
I want a twelve X but I don't need a 12X. I barely know how to use my 9303 !

[tewatson]

when you say copy do you mean manually copy or can you connect the 9303 to the 12X via the dsc cable?
Manual entry. The values are identical.

Tom

[SaltyOne]

Mike indicated that the "butterfly" values need to be doubled when converting from the 9303 to the 12X.

George

[mlachow]

That is correct, well it's called Break instead of Butterfly on the 12X. That is just for values entered on the butterfly screen. If you happened to use mixer 1 or some other mixer for an elevator curve, you can copy those values directly.

Mike indicated that the "butterfly" values need to be doubled when converting from the 9303 to the 12X.

[IBWALT]

OK, one last question before I start selling and saving. How much does the 12X weigh? As compaired to the 9303.

Walt

[tewatson]

Heavy. Think of the old 10X...if you liked it, you'll love the 12X.

Tom

[LEO 71]

This thread is so cool. I'm so grateful that all of you have bought this radio then pointed out all the great features. It's been years since I have been able to buy a new radio (last one a Vision) and now with all of the great comments from Larry, Tom, and mlachow it really helps a guy like me. When Larry mentioned how you can adjust your flaps and ailerons individually (I never can get that right from the start) and then adding the 5 flight modes you name and being able to choose the 3 position switch that I want this was the deciding factor.

I've decided not to buy a 9303 and now will order my 12x today!

[rrdiaz30]

OK, one last question before I start selling and saving. How much does the 12X weigh? As compaired to the 9303.

Walt

Walt,

I weighed the 2.4ghz versions of both radios.

X9303 - 2lb 3.3oz
12X - 2lb 9.9oz

IMO, I like the feel of the 12x over the 9303, the sticks and weight are spot on.

Rick

[IBWALT]

Thanks to everyone for the info. I guess I need to start saving my money and selling a few things.

Walt

[SmokinJoe101]

Thanks to everyone for the info. I guess I need to start saving my money and selling a few things.

Walt

You will have to sell more that a few things :eek:

sj

[Kevin Matney]

Does any 1 have a set up for a supra for the 12X they will sent me to up load to my new TX

[OVSS Boss]

Kevin,
Are there any more Weak Signals Sunday club contests, I have been invited and w could download if I got up there. I am not sure I can download to my PC to send you.

Marc

[mlachow]

Downloads require the USB PC Data Transfer Interface. At least the CD for the 12X should have been in the box. You have to manually install the driver. It not all Windows automagical. But I have had it exhibit the other standard Windows features like crashes. Also, the manual talks about selecting PC or another TX for the transfer. I still used TX to TX transfer when using the PC Data Transfer Interface. I'm not sure what selecting PC does on the menu.

[LEO 71]

All this is making me excited! I sure hope they fill my 12x back order soon! YOU guys are the best :D

[motowncali]

I am not sure how long the deal is going on, but remember that if you bought or are buying a 12X, send in the UPC symbols off the radio and off two RX's and JR will send you two more identical RX's...

Loving my 12X, don't know that it will ever see the dirt of a slope, but for my IMAC plane I love it.

[Tappet]

In reference to your original post......no.

[Kevin Matney]

OVSS Boss you have a E Mail

[OVSS Boss]

Got it Kevin, I am not in a position to download to the computer.

Marc

[Kevin Matney]

OVSS Boss I can wait.

[OVSS Boss]

Let me call Rick a call and find out if I might make it up there.

Marc

[claude60]

On my 9303 I have it set up so that when I pull down the flap stick it turns off the ail to flap mix, that way I don't have to flip a switch for landing. How do I achieve this with the 12X? This is one function that I have not been able to figure out how to make work. Thanks and it is a cool radio.

[rrdiaz30]

Check out page A-15 "To program a stick position switch" in the maunal.
Setup up the stick position switch in the System Mode. You have 4 stick switches (SPS0,SPS1,SPS2 & SPS3). Start with SPS0, then select which stick to use (SPOI, AILE, ELEV or RUDD), then select if the switch will be on in the up or down position. The POS number allows you to fine tune when the switch toggles. Once you are happy with this setting, assign the mix to SPS0. That should do it.

Rick

[OVSS Boss]

Rick has it, flap stick as a switch, that is one way to do it.

I have also done it via setting up a flight mode for some throw changes I wanted and then I am doing just what you are and ditching the A-F coupling and a couple of other things, including getting rid of A-R mixing. On final I want the axis' split to better correct either yaw or roll that gets out of shape.

Marc

[nuevo]

claude60, how did you turn off the ail->flap mix with your 9303?

[claude60]

In the ail to flap mix there is a deal called spoi stk, I set that at 90. When I pull down the flap stick a little ways it turns off the ail to flap mix. Claude

[IBWALT]

In the ail to flap mix there is a deal called spoi stk, I set that at 90. When I pull down the flap stick a little ways it turns off the ail to flap mix. Claude

That option is not available in all JR9303 transmitters. At least not mine.

Walt

[claude60]

Maybe your transmiter has the older firm ware.

[tewatson]

On my 9303 I have it set up so that when I pull down the flap stick it turns off the ail to flap mix, that way I don't have to flip a switch for landing. How do I achieve this with the 12X? This is one function that I have not been able to figure out how to make work.
If you use the native mixer, there is no stick switch option...you have to use a PMIX to effectively mix it out. If you set up a PMIX for AIL-FLAP coupling, then you can use a stick switch.

Tom

[tewatson]

That option is not available in all JR9303 transmitters. At least not mine.
You have the first generation firmware. Horizon fixed that quite a while back.

Tom

[IBWALT]

Can you use a fast charger on the 12X or does it have a diode built into the modular batt. pack that prevents this?

Walt

[rrdiaz30]

Can you use a fast charger on the 12X or does it have a diode built into the modular batt. pack that prevents this?

Walt

Walt,

Page I-14 of the manual indicates:

"Note: When using a fast charger to charge the transmitter
battery, do not exceed 1.5 amps (or 1500mA) charge rate
or damage to the transmitter or battery can occur"

Rick

[LEO 71]

I just read that the JR Data Transfer System does not support the 12x. This is a bummer. When will it support it? Any team guys know the answer????

[rrdiaz30]

The 12X comes with it's own data transfer software. An image of the splashscreen is attached.

Rick

[LEO 71]

Oh that is great! I'm on the back end list for this one. Hope to get it real soon!

[jtlsf5]

Finally made the jump and took delivery of a 12X yesterday afternoon. A nice full charge overnight and it was time to start learning.

In a nutshell, the 12X is all its cracked up to be. I used one of my Supras as a test bed, same one I used to convert from a Stylus to a 9303. Everything transferred easily except how to decouple flap-aileron mixing during landing.

My solution may not be the only one, but it worked. I don't have a dedicated Landing Mode because I use a 2 position switch for Launch (the Mix switch, upper right rear, a hold over from Airtronics switch positions). So Cruise mode doubles for Landing Mode. To do the decouple, I activated a Stick Switch on the Spoiler (Flap) stick for about 50%. It is on from neutral flaps to 50%, then off from 50% to full flaps. A Standard programmable mixer did the rest. Turned out the right set up was Ail as Master and AilP as slave. By setting up the Pos1 values for the percent of flap-aileron mix I wanted I was set in this Flight mode. The mix is is always on from neutral flaps to 50% (Pos1 values), then goes to 0% mix when the stick passes the 50% point.

I can still set up specific flap-aileron mixes for the other flight modes using the Flaperon menu with only the Cruise (Landing) mode on the mixer.

This is gonna be fun!!

JT (No longer a 12X wannabe)

[Robglover]

Cool!

Stylus boy now X Man?

[rrdiaz30]

The Fed-ex man was good to me today. The JR R1222 PowerSafe RX landed at my doorstep this afternoon. As I was going through the manual, I was suprised to find out that the main unit does not contain any RX electronics, just the power distribution circuitry. The RX duties are handed off to the supplied 4 remote units. Cool! 2 - 4500mAh 6.0v NiMH w/ EC3 connectors also showed up to supply the power. Now to tackle the installation.

Rick

[akaram]

Hi Guys,

I got my 12X from Ishiimokei in Japan and the data transfer software is in Japanese :( Could somebody who has the English version zip the installation folder on the cd and send it by mail ? it should be not more than 5 MB.
My email is alex.karam@gmail.com

Thanks in advance !

[rrdiaz30]

Hi Guys,

I got my 12X from Ishiimokei in Japan and the data transfer software is in Japanese :( Could somebody who has the English version zip the installation folder on the cd and send it by mail ? it should be not more than 5 MB.
My email is alex.karam@gmail.com

Thanks in advance !

Software sent.

Rick

[chetosmachine]

Is the 2.4ghz 12X a native 2.4 or is it just the 2.4 module?
Could i swap the 2.4 ghz module for my 35mhz synth 9303 module?
Could i use the 2.4ghz 12x's module on my 9303?

[jtlsf5]

Is the 2.4ghz 12X a native 2.4 or is it just the 2.4 module?
Could i swap the 2.4 ghz module for my 35mhz synth 9303 module?
Could i use the 2.4ghz 12x's module on my 9303?


The 12X comes in two versions. The 12X 2.4 is a native 2.4 GHz unit, and is supplied with an R1221 receiver. The 12X MV is a module based transmitter that includes both 2.4 GHz and 72 MHz modules, but no receiver.

The modules supplied with the 12X MV only work with the 12X MV; you cannot swap modules from the 9303 to the 12X, or vice versa. Different plug/pin setup. The other key difference is that the 12X recognizes which module is plugged in and only menus specific to that module are active. When you have the 72 module in, menus for modulation and frequency are present. They are not active when the 2.4 module is in.

Another thing I discovered. A setup on 72 remembers what frequency it was programmed with. When the 2.4 module is used these setups work seamlessly as long as you have a 2.4 receiver.

I hope this helps.
JT

[bundyglida]

is there any difference between the mc22 and the jr 12x? they look similar and both have 12 channels....

[jtlsf5]

is there any difference between the mc22 and the jr 12x? they look similar and both have 12 channels....


Send me a MC22 and I'll let you know. ;)

JT

[chetosmachine]

Thanks!

The mc-22 is very far from the 9xII-9303-12X !
May be you're talking about the mx-22 and/or the mx-24?

[bundyglida]

yes, sorry, I did mean the mx-22, it looks very similar to my 9xII, but with more channels....would it be worth upgrading to?

[SaltyOne]

Rick - what kind of sailplane are you putting the JR Power Safe into? It seems like overkill for the typical AMA TD sailplane. I've seen them in the big 40% F3A planes where the servos can use more than 1,000 ma in a 5 minute flight. I've never seen this system in a TD sailplane. Probably would be useful in a large scale sailplane. Just curious, whats up?

George

[rrdiaz30]

Rick - what kind of sailplane are you putting the JR Power Safe into? It seems like overkill for the typical AMA TD sailplane. I've seen them in the big 40% F3A planes where the servos can use more than 1,000 ma in a 5 minute flight. I've never seen this system in a TD sailplane. Probably would be useful in a large scale sailplane. Just curious, whats up?

George

George,

It's going to be used in a 5m HFModell ASG29 scale ship. I have had this bird since the spring, just need to set the time aside from other task's and finish her this winter. It will be supplying power to 9 digital servos, with the 10th (landing gear) on a separate battery.

Rick

[IBWALT]

I have been using a LiPo in my 9303 for almost a year now. I get a month of flying before I need to recharge. It has worked so well that I put one in my 12x with excellent results. I had to alter the 12x battery case and the PC board inside (cut a trace and added a jumper) but the results have been excellent. No more 1.5amp restriction on charge amperage and the 3s 2500mah LiPo really extends the time between charges. If anyone wants the particulars I can post pic's.

Walt

[djklein21]

please do

[ThermalBuster]

I'd be interested as well. I hesitate about lipos because I accidentially leave my transmitter on ocassionally. Do you have some kind of low voltage cut off?

Thanks
Rick

[IBWALT]

Well, I have had several requests for the photos and how to so here goes.

First I purchased a Dualsky 2500mah 3s lipo from 2Dog R/C. I chose this LiPo because it has a built in cell balancer. Other than the LiPo all I needed was my trusty Dremel with a cut-off wheel a 1/32 drill bit a soldering iron and solder, a short piece of insulated wire (I used a short piece cut from an old servo extension) 28 awg a small piece of double sided tape and finally a short piece of nylon string.

First I removed the battery box from the 12X. Next I removed the tape seal on the side of the battery box and the four (4) screws that hold the box together. Next I removed the battery and attached printed circuit board from the battery box and set them aside.

The LiPo is to wide to fit in the 12X battery box but it will fit if placed on its side. So the top of the battery box must be modified. Please see the attached photo. I marked where I wanted to cut and then used the Dremel cut-off wheel to remove the top of the battery box.

Once I had the battery box top cut to size I used my soldering iron to remove the leads from the battery to the circuit board. Don't worry if you forget which side is pos or neg. It is plainly marked on the board with a B+ and a B- on the corners of the pc board. Next I turned the board over and on the back side I drilled two small holes in the back side. One hole (the pos is already there but it is tinned over on the trace side and must be drilled through. Next I drilled the hole for the neg battery lead about an 1/8 inch outboard of where the diode goes through the board (see photo). Your probably asking why not just go through the big hole like they had the stock battery hooked up. Well there is not much room to work doing it that way and if you let the + and - lead touch even momentarily the cell balancer in the LiPo is toast. Then your out $50 bucks. Don't ask me how I know. :confused: But attaching the leads from the back is much easier and safer.

Next, take your Dremel and cut the trace on the pc board that goes from the center pin on the charge port to the diode (see photo for location). You can cut anywhere between the two nylon lugs that hold the connector to the pc board. Now you need to make a jumper from a short piece of wire and connect the center pin of the charging jack to the pad that you removed the neg battery lead from. The cutting of the trace and the addition of the jumper allow you to bypass the diode and charge the battery directly. In the case of the Dualsky LiPo it would be 1C or 2.5amps.

Next strip one of the leads from the LiPo and tin it. The reason I said to do one at a time is that there is less of a chance of shorting the leads if you only work on one at a time. Feed it through the hole that you drilled in the back side of the board. Remember red (pos) goes in the hole that connects to the B+ side of the pc board and black (neg) goes in the B- side (this is also the side that the diode is connected to.

Now that the hard work is done. Put the double sided tape on the bottom of the battery box and place the LiPo on the tape (battery should be layed on its side to fit properly). It might help if you do a trial fit to make sure you modification of the battery box top is adequate enough. Reassemble the battery box and plug it back into the 12X. Oh, tie the nylon string in a loop and place it around the battery box. Your modification of the battery box removed the small bit of plastic that you could use to remove the battery. The nylon chord makes it much easier on your fingers to remove.

Yes, I know that this will void the warranty and yes I did leave my 9303 tx on once. Yes the LiPo was puffed. I soldered a couple of leads to a D cell battery and hooked it up to the LiPo. I let it take enough of a charge to be able to put it on my LiPo charger. I cycled the LiPo a couple of times and it has been fine since (that was seven months ago). But I can tell you that I am extra careful now about making sure that the tx is off before I put it up.

If your not sure of something or if I have not been clear in the instructions pm me and I will be happy to answer your questions.

Walt

[ThermalBuster]

Thanks Walt! Very nice and the info is appreciated.

Rick

[SmokinJoe101]

I guess if upgrade to LIPO's you can forget about any warranty from JR

I sure would hate to cut into a $1400 radio.... :eek:

sj

[tewatson]

It has worked so well that I put one in my 12x with excellent results. I had to alter the 12x battery case and the PC board inside (cut a trace and added a jumper) but the results have been excellent. No more 1.5amp restriction on charge amperage and the 3s 2500mah LiPo really extends the time between charges.
I'm trying to understand how an extra 500 MAh (stock is 2,000) makes enough of a difference to justify wrecking a $1,400 TX and at least certainly voiding the warranty. And, if 2,500 MAh is still that important, 8 AA cells would be a virtual drop-in at far less risk.

Personally, I find 2,000 MAh more than enough.

Tom

[IBWALT]

Personally, I find 2,000 MAh more than enough.

Tom

Tom, you would be correct if the LiPo were just a 2s but this LiPo is a 3s. If you do the math you will see that the LiPo has about 10 more watt hours than the stock 2000mah battery that comes in the 12X. The 12X won't go a month without a recharge like my 9303 but I fly on the average of two to sometimes three days a week and I can do that for a two or three weeks without ever worrying about recharging.

But if your worried about the warranty on your radio don't do it. I'm just showing you how I did mine.

Walt

[gavoss]

Receiver rebate question:

Please let me know if I'm correct concerning the following information:

If I buy a receiver, and turn in the UPC label, Horizon will send me a second receiver free.

Do I have to buy a specific receiver or will any 2.4 rx do? How many rx's can I buy and get a second rx? When does this expire? gv

[tkallev]

I think that promotion ended last Summer, I couldn't find anything on the Horizon website about it any more.

Best to call Horizon to be sure of the deal and the parameters.

tom

[tewatson]

When it was in effect, the deal was: buy a 2.4 TX and RX (together, on the same receipt) and you got another identical RX free. The RX packaged with the TX in complete packages did not count.

Tom

[gavoss]

I checked with Horizon and they stated the offer had ended. I'll still be getting a 12X in a few weeks. I'm just waiting for a few checks to arrive so I'll have enough to pay for it. Does anyone need a very nice 10X for a reasonable price? :) Thanks for those who responded.

[guillaume83]

Hi,

could someone please post a picture of the 12X synthesized module (72 mHz) as well as its compartment on the Tx ?

I have a Graupner MX24s and wondering if the 12X 72 mHz module is compatible with my Tx....MX24s'module has two rows of pins unlike the MX22's (JR 9303) which has one row. The channel selection is done with the menus on my MX24s while one needs to adjust potentiometers on an MX22'synthesized module.

If the 12X's module fits, I guess its 2.4 gHz module would also fit on my Tx.

Thanks in advance,

Guillaume

[IBWALT]

Tom, you would be correct if the LiPo were just a 2s but this LiPo is a 3s. If you do the math you will see that the LiPo has about 10 more watt hours than the stock 2000mah battery that comes in the 12X. The 12X won't go a month without a recharge like my 9303 but I fly on the average of two to sometimes three days a week and I can do that for a two or three weeks without ever worrying about recharging.

But if your worried about the warranty on your radio don't do it. I'm just showing you how I did mine.

Walt

I just thought that I would post what kind of flying time I get between recharges with the lipo battery. The volt meter on the screen of my 12X says 10.6 volts (probably good for a couple of more hours of flying) and the total flight/setup/adjustment time from each model is thirteen hours and fifty five minutes (13:55).

Walt

[SaltyOne]

Walt - I think a 3s pack gives more than 12 volts when freshly charged. 8 AA is about 10.8 volts. Any chance the extra voltage could damage the radio? Thanks.

George

[SmokinJoe101]

Walt - I think a 3s pack gives more than 12 volts when freshly charged. 8 AA is about 10.8 volts. Any chance the extra voltage could damage the radio? Thanks.

George

Walt posted he burned up the radio once :eek:

BUT for contest flying I like to make sure that everything takes a charge the night before that means reading how many mah went into all packs so I have that secure feeling.
sj

[IBWALT]

Walt - I think a 3s pack gives more than 12 volts when freshly charged. 8 AA is about 10.8 volts. Any chance the extra voltage could damage the radio? Thanks. George

George, your right. After I finish charging my lipo I get a reading of about 12.5v and yes I guess it is posible that the higher voltage could damage the voltage regulator. But 8 double A batteries in a tx pack is 12v and this setup is used all of the time in transmitters.

Walt posted he burned up the radio once :eek:

BUT for contest flying I like to make sure that everything takes a charge the night before that means reading how many mah went into all packs so I have that secure feeling.
sj

I may have said that I read somewhere that someone had smoked their voltage regulator but I have never had it happen to me. I have used the lipo in two 9303 transmitters (72mhz and 2.4ghz) and my 12X and have never had a problem. But I will throw in my usual caveat that this mod may not be for everyone. If you think that it might damage your equipment then don't do it. I am just relating my experiences with the lipo tx pack.

Walt