Hangar 9 /Carden YAK 54 /Hacker A60-18L

[bsipro]

hey everyone
here is my latest project.
Hangar 9 -Carden YAK 54
89" wingspan
17-18lb.
Hacker A60-18L
XOAR 23-10 prop
Castle Creations 110HV ESC
5 - JR DS8711 servo's
1- A123 2300 mAh 6.6v RX batt.
Spektrum AR7000 RX
2 - 6s 4200 mAh MaxAmps Li-Po's
this setup should get me 3800-4000 watt's @17-18 LB.
My 33% Sukhio is getting over 7600watt's @ 23 LB.
the plane came in to day it looks good the covering needed a little work.
the construction of the plane is very differnt that the other H9 planes that I have worked on. it is very stiff there is a lot of cross bracing. the foam core wings are stiff and light.
Itook some picture of the plane out of the box I will post them later (left my camera at work)
I have the motor and ESC , i'm waiting on the the servo's
I'm going to try to bring both planes to NEAT this year I'm waiting to see what work thows at me.

[blucor basher]

Should be a great project. I ended up with a couple of these, wondering if I should do as you are doing or sell both of them. Will be watching your thread with interest.

[bsipro]

hey blucor basher
I got a good deal on this plane.
Im surprised that I have not seen a electric build with this plane.
what is your thought on prop size. I see that you have used this power setup in the past.
I

[appleflyer]

cool, thats a nice plane. some people say 8711's aren't that great, I've had 2 guys say that after 5-6 flights they start to have a bit of slop, what do you think? i dont know whether to use HS-7955s or 8711s on my 80cc sukhoi.

[BoneDoc]

Sounds like a great project there.

A couple of suggestions, you can either go 24 x 12 on your 18L
or drop down to 16L and 22x10 or maybe even 23x8. I think that'll help you get more oomph out of your system. Just make sure your Maxamp lipos can handle it.

[blucor basher]

24x12 or 15x12.5 are my choices for A60-18L on 12S in reasonable weather.

Currently I'm beating an A60-16L on 12s w/ 24x12. No problems yet.

[jfetter]

Pretty plane!

My only concern would be the 3500 watts (in) and 95 amps you'll pull at max power with that prop. I'm all in favor of pushing my electrics but I've found that propping down and staying within the amp rating (or closer anyway) for a relatively small drop in thrust (23 x 8 saves you 25 amps (72% of the amp draw with the 23 x 13) yet still provides 90% of the thrust of the 23 x 13)...

Jack

[bsipro]

hey guys
thanks for the info. I have a 24"12E APC im going to try. I like to use a Vess prop but they do not have a prop in the 24"-25" size. the MaxAmp li-po's Im using is a new pack that is a true 25c pack after a 7min fight in the Suk. they are only about 95deg.
and they are using under 2600mAh of each pack.
what kind of amp draw does the 18L do with a 24"-12E on 12s
here are some pic.

[cpt micah]

nice, i was wondering when someone would finally do an electric converion in here.

[ditchit]

It's not going to 3D on the A60-18L even on a 24x12 APCe and 12S. I know that from recent experience with my 16-17lb Yak. Flies OK but don't get the necessary brutal pull out of a hover. I brought the Hacker Masterspin 170 ESC couple of months back, just waiting for the new A80-10 to appear. Hacker have finished testing just last week apparently so am hoping my supplier will get it in next 2-3 weeks. And just to add that disappointingly I broke the shaft on the A60 at the weekend. Birch prop touched the deck on heavy landing (carbon U/C flexed) and it broke like it was cream cheese. Not even a scratch on the wooden prop. :confused:

Hub on the wood props are double the thickness of the APCe. Gonna make it difficult to fit a spinner I would have thought.

[blucor basher]

I totally disagree with ditchit. I own several 50CC aircraft between 15 and 18 lbs. on A60-18L, they will pull vertically out of hover strong enough for my taste. More is always better, but it's incorrect to characterize it with "It's not going to 3D" when there are many, many, many videos on the wb of planes this size and weight flying 3D on this power system.

[BoneDoc]

It 3D's my 19.5 lb 35% plane just fine. not a rocket pullout, but adequate.

[ditchit]

That was my point. Not a "rocket" pull out. I take back the "won't 3D".

[blucor basher]

..and, just to cloud the issue, the Hacker A80 is apparently going to be shipping out to dealers this week, and we should get a Reaper GR-70 to test very soon.

[mexico]

Pretty plane!

My only concern would be the 3500 watts (in) and 95 amps you'll pull at max power with that prop. I'm all in favor of pushing my electrics but I've found that propping down and staying within the amp rating (or closer anyway) for a relatively small drop in thrust (23 x 8 saves you 25 amps (72% of the amp draw with the 23 x 13) yet still provides 90% of the thrust of the 23 x 13)...

Jack

But does it provide enough pitch speed to fly well?

[NumbSkull]

This should be a great build.

You're not going to have any problems with flying that on the 18L. I have an Extra that's in the 16-17 pound range, and it flies very well on the 18L.

The spin box says I'm pulling 3600 watts out with the 24x12 APCE on 12S. That's 211 watts/pound if the plane is 17 pounds. It will pull out with power, and does have unlimited vertical, it might not be ballistic, but MORE then plenty to make me smile everytime I take it out.

[jfetter]

This should be a great build.

You're not going to have any problems with flying that on the 18L. I have an Extra that's in the 16-17 pound range, and it flies very well on the 18L.

The spin box says I'm pulling 3600 watts out with the 24x12 APCE on 12S. That's 211 watts/pound if the plane is 17 pounds. It will pull out with power, and does have unlimited vertical, it might not be ballistic, but MORE then plenty to make me smile everytime I take it out.

Just a minor point, the Jeti Spin can only measure Amps and Volts (Watts) in, not out. You'd have to take a guess as to the efficiency of your motor to get watts out...

Jack

[bsipro]

hey everyone.
the power system that i'm using is a proven one, I'm sure that it will be more that what I need for this project. I'm setting up this plane to be a everyday allround fun practice plane. I have my suk. that is the rocket. let's see how it turns out and go from there. who knows I might put floats on it.
anyways. It was good to talk to Ben and I got some props coming from him. I picked up my servos today from my LHS, I hope to start working on it this weekend. I will post as I go.
a little side note I saw the H9 suk fly with the hacker A80 impressive.

[bsipro]

hey everyone
I have a lttle progress report.
I have all of the servo's installed. the pull-pull setup installed I'm using JR 8711 servos all around (they are a little overkill but I can use them in other larger planes down the road.) I'm using the stock hardware that came with the ARF but I did replace the steel pro link turnbuckle's with the JR Ti ones. they are only 2".I'm also using the JR HD alum. servo arms.
make sure that you route the pull-pull wires though the holes in the gussets in the rear of the FUS.
you will need 36" servo ext. for the elvator servos. and 12" on the aleron servos. I use shrink tube on all of the conections.

the horizontal stab's require some work to get them right. there are not any antirotaion pins on the wings or hor.stab's they use bolts.
the rudder is pice of cake,
the one theing that I noticed is that the manual is lacking so you have some large scale setups under your belt.

[Jeffery]

That's a clean fuse, looking forward to the rest of the build.

[bsipro]

I also have the motor mounted.
the plane comes with 2 wood mounting blocks for the engine / motor. the blocks have thrust angle cut in them. one has a little more angle than the other for downward thrust.
the manual only states (thin side) in a picture.
I mounted the motor in the Hacker Motor mount. there needs to be 6 1/2 inches from the firewall to the lip of the cowl.
so I adjusted the motor mount legs to get 6 1/2 inches from the motor mount leg bolt tab ot the prop shaft rear flange.
the motor mount legs tabs will need to face inwards.
center the motor on the center mark on the firewall. mark for your bolt holes.
I used 5mm bolts to mount the motor to the firewall.
see pictures

I mounted the ESC under the motor box uning HD velcro and a cable tie.
I drilled a 3/4 hole to get the wire were they need to go.

I also cut a 4" hole in the bottom of the cowl for cooling.
See pictures

[bsipro]

I'm at the point were I have the CG figured out.
I mounted the 2 - A123 2300mAh RX batterys on the top of the motor box, and the 2 - 6s Li-Po's in the motor box
that will get me to the suggested 7-17/32 inch CG at the Fus.
the wieght of the plane with out Li-po's /spinner /wheel pants is 13.2 lb's
with Li-po's and battery tray 16.4 lb's
I should ready for maden tomarrow after work.

[NumbSkull]

16.4 pounds!!

Very nice!! Should be nice and floaty!!

Cant wait to hear the maiden!!

[BoneDoc]

Good luck.. sounds like a floater.

[flynz4me]

I had one on gas at 16.1 pounds and it flew through snaps it was so light... My buddy has one on 50cc gas and it is a floater too at 17.6 lbs.. The extremely large squares and light wings make this baby perform...

Enjoy the plane it is an amazing one from Dennis and Hangar 9.

Devin

[bsipro]

Hey All
here is the Maden report.
CG WAY OFF . nose heavy. it needed a lot of up elevator to fly level.
I moved the batterys and I ended up with the RX battery just behind CG. and even with the Li-po's hanging halfway off the the tray it still fell to the nose(vertical / inverted / knife edge / uplines)
other than that. I have4 flights on it.
the plane flyes a lot better than a EF 74" YAK. it holds it's lines well.
it slows down nicely. the Alerons are very sensitive event with the throws turned down. it lands like a Yak you need to hold the tail down once on the ground.
this is the 3rd yak that I have owend. It is not even close to my H9 33% SUK.
but it flys well and I'm sure that once I sort out the CG it will a Nice plane.
on the power performance.
12s2p 4200mAh 25c :
43.2v @wot
83 amps @wot
3585 watt's @wot
it has good power but i'm used to a lot more in my planes. I have to check the ESC I was getting a little growl out of the motor when I when from 1/2 - 3/4 trottle
the motor came down @ 109 deg.
the li-po's @ 98 deg.
any suggestions on ESC setting would be great.
it's a CC110HV with the latest software update.

[BrunooO]

Great build!
In my opinion this is one of the coolest painting I have ever seen
have you made some videos?

[bsipro]

here is a picture of the new battery tray and RX battery position.
i'm running one rx battery until I get the other switch.

[NumbSkull]

There's been a lot of talk on programing the CC HV 110 in the 87" SHP thread.

Here's what seems to be working for everyone with the Hacker A60-18L.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10304070&postcount=2782

If your packs can hold it, you might cut it down to 12S1P and drop some weight. I've been flying mine on 12S1P 5000 25C packs, and getting similar watt readings as yours with a 24x12 APCE prop.

[bsipro]

hey NumbSkull
thanks for the info. I saw that post I just need to revisit it. I'm running the li-po's at 12s1p I must of had a typo on one of my post.

has anyone tried a 25x12 prop on this setup

[BoneDoc]

25x12 should be fine.

[rcman]

I have this same plane and I just ordered the A80-10L from Aeromodels so it should be interested to see how it compaires to your results with the A60.

David

[blucor basher]

Just got my A80-8, looks pretty darn nice...$$$ though. Will be testing on 10S ASAP. Love the Da-50 style prop drive.

[cpt micah]

yes thats what im running on my 18l, but i cant tell you the diffrence because i havnt tried a 24x12 on it yet. it works fine though, doesnt get to hot or anything

[NumbSkull]

How much are the A80s going for? I cant find any info on them on the hacker site.

Are you selling them Ben?

[Jeffery]

How much are the A80s going for? I cant find any info on them on the hacker site.

Are you selling them Ben?

Hacker in Germany has the A80 (http://www.hacker-motor.com/images/Catalog08/Hacker-2008-WEB%2021.pdf) listed for 499.00 Euros (http://www.hacker-motor.com/images/P080201.pdf), but you should be able to get the 19% VAT tax lifted if you buy them here.

[NumbSkull]

Hacker in Germany has the A80 (http://www.hacker-motor.com/images/Catalog08/Hacker-2008-WEB%2021.pdf) listed for 499.00 Euros (http://www.hacker-motor.com/images/P080201.pdf), but you should be able to get the 19% VAT tax lifted if you buy them here.

Thanks Info!!!

That is a pricey little motor!!

I'm not familar with the VAT tax, does the $499 Euros already include the VAT tax?

At 499 Euro, puts it at about $730.

[bsipro]

hey everyone,
$700.00 for the A80 seems high I paid that for the A100. what kind of watt's and Amps is the 18L with a 25-12 prop producing.

[Jeffery]

Thanks Info!!!

That is a pricey little motor!!

I'm not familar with the VAT tax, does the $499 Euros already include the VAT tax?

At 499 Euro, puts it at about $730.

Yes, you get to take the 19% off the 499 Euros, that puts it at 404 Euros, or $592.

And that price is just speculation based on the retail price off the German site, it may well sell for less than $592 through dealers here, I really don't know.

[NumbSkull]

That's not so bad. Still expensive, but more reasonable then with the VAT tax. (Didn't know if it was added after the sale, or in the included price).

Think I'll wait for some results before I go diving into a project with the A80 though...

[blucor basher]

Basically $600-ish for an A80.

[BoneDoc]

Makes it kind of a wash when compared to NEU financially speaking. But the convenience of having a bolt on DA50 style prop adapter & outrunner design might make it worthwhile for some.

[bsipro]

hey everyone
I got the yak out today to see how the new battery tray location is.
I ended up with the RX battery over CG and the lipos centered on the tray. the plane flys good it still needs a little up elevator, but horzontal /inverted /knife edge looked good. a few more flights and I should have it.
the CG is 1" back from recomended.
just a little side note it flys acceptable on 10s for pattern practice.
I also found out way the Alirons were so senstive. the EXPO was reversed.

[Ron101]

Hacker told me $669 for the A80-10
they want you to run there hacker master spin 170 with this motor
It's $640 ... I was told that this ECS was desinged for this motor

the timing may not work with a CC110HV

and it also pulls 110 amps with a 24x12 prop on 12s

not a cheap settup.. but powerful

[bsipro]

I saw this motor in H9 33% suk. it has nice power. but the down side is that it takes 8,000-10,000mAh on 10s to get a 8min flight. (4 li-po's per flight)
that will add 2+ lb to a 50cc size plane. the question is how will the plane perform at 19+ lb.
I think this motor is great for the 33% planes @20+lb
I would like to see some real numbers on this motor.
weight.
watt's.
amp's
to see what we are working with.

24x12 prop seem way to small I saw it with a 26b vess on 10s

[Jeffery]

24x12 prop seem way to small I saw it with a 26b vess on 10s

It should be able to run a larger prop on 10S than on 12S.

[jfetter]

I saw this motor in H9 33% suk. it has nice power. but the down side is that it takes 8,000-10,000mAh on 10s to get a 8min flight. (4 li-po's per flight)
that will add 2+ lb to a 50cc size plane. the question is how will the plane perform at 19+ lb.
I think this motor is great for the 33% planes @20+lb
I would like to see some real numbers on this motor.
weight.
watt's.
amp's
to see what we are working with.

24x12 prop seem way to small I saw it with a 26b vess on 10s

Are you sure that's where this motor fits in? From what I see it's designed to fill the gap between the largest A60 outrunner (2,600 watts) and their A100-8 outrunner (7,000 watts)...

Jack

[bsipro]

yes they are to be used with 33% size planes. (85cc) it sounded like there thoughts of using this in a 50cc. planes

[bsipro]

Hey All
I have the yak dialed in. I got some input on my CG question from H9. I moved the RX back to the top of the motor box. the CG is 3"-3/8 at the wing tip.
the power seems to be good more would be better. but everything is staying cool 105deg motor / 96deg lipo's / 90deg ESC .
this is a great plane and the setup is solid.

[BoneDoc]

Try 25x12.5 then.

[dpoles]

I saw this plane fly last week and it was sweet! A beautiful build/conversion.
If only I could learn to fly (takeoff) like bsipro.

It was quite funny that he referred to this as his "small" plane.

ps. bsipro-the cub is ready for a re-maiden

[bsipro]

hey dpoles,
glad to hear the cub is ready (ground speed is your friend).
hey All.
I had the suk & the yak at the field today. there is quite a contrast in planes the suk has ulimited power and flys like it's on rails. it is olny 10" bigger than the yak but feels like its 10' bigger.
the yak is real smooth you can thow it around like a .40size plane . power is good and does not present as big in the air.
you have to fly both planes in to a landing they will slow way down and need a little speed for smooth landings.

you can go wrong with this plane and power combo
enjoy!!!!

[bsipro]

here are some pictures of the Yak and Suk