Need help landing, F-22 raptor

[donxavr]

Can anyone give me advice on landing my plane.
Thanks

[Wayne V]

From your other post i would suggest staying away from poles when landing, while a nice open field might not help your landings it will save you money over hitting a pole.

[jetmech05]

stay out of the middle of the runway and get yourself an instructor

[hogflyer]

jetmech,

If he doesn't get an instructor he won't have to worry about landing with the F-22 - won't get that far into the first flight to worry about landing. :D :D :D :D

Hogflyer

[donxavr]

jetmech,

If he doesn't get an instructor he won't have to worry about landing with the F-22 - won't get that far into the first flight to worry about landing. :D :D :D :D

Hogflyer

I've flown the f-22, my problem is landing. I maidened it myself. Have two more but selling one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J4u8WR_gbU

[donxavr]

stay out of the middle of the runway and get yourself an instructor

I wasn't that close but the camera I used is slow on the zoom so we just keep it zoomed in it's not a camcorder but a 7 megapixel camera... so I can understand you thinking I was flying towards the cam guy. No one was in any danger but the plane.

[jetmech05]

my apologies sir.....then get yourself an instructor....explainning how to land a plane would be kin to explainning how to drive a car...It could be done but I don't want to ride with you....much easier to show you how...that's why I say get yourself an instructor

[Bob Mitchell]

jetmech,

If he doesn't get an instructor he won't have to worry about landing with the F-22 - won't get that far into the first flight to worry about landing. :D :D :D :D

Hogflyer
This same guy was posting in RCU in early July about landing problems. He titled his thread "Need help taking off? I did it! I did it!". The opening comment?

"Hey guys it's me again. I didn't listen to you guys and went on ahead and took my raptor up despite all the insisting on getting an instructor and let me just say that I was successful so yes Adui I "beat the odds and flew great" it was the landing that was a little ruff as you can see from the pic. "

The attached video showed him taking off from the parking lot of his workplace, with buildings, cars, curbs and light poles in the field of view. He claimed to be using it only for take off and landing and was actually flying over a vacant open area. Doesn't look like his second choice of fields was much better.

He doesn't think he needs an instructor, apparently, and probably won't listen to advice given here any more than he did 6 weeks ago on RCU.

Bob

[hogflyer]

I've flown the f-22, my problem is landing. I maidened it myself. Have two more but selling one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J4u8WR_gbU


Sorry, I didn't realize you had flown it before until I saw the incident with the pole. You should really evaluate the area you fly in for obsticals considering the speed and weight of that plane.

I too would highly recommend you find an instructor at a proper flying field to learn to land this plane. I've flown similar planes and know what it takes to properly handle one.

Hogflyer

[donxavr]

He doesn't think he needs an instructor, apparently, and probably won't listen to advice given here any more than he did 6 weeks ago on RCU.

Bob


Hey Bob, I found an instructor out here around my area. So I did mean it when I said I was gonna get one. I just couldn't wait though, and I just had to fly again. And as for listening to advice, well you saw I wasn't at my place of work :D

[Bob Mitchell]

[QUOTE=donxavr]Hey Bob, I found an instructor out here around my area. So I did mean it when I said I was gonna get one. I just couldn't wait though, and I just had to fly again. And as for listening to advice, well you saw I wasn't at my place of work :D[/QUOTE

Do you really think you can learn to land your plane by reading something that someone here tells you to do in terms of actual stick moves?

So, here you are, six weeks plus later, still asking for help on how to land. Still flying in areas where it's clearly not a good idea for someone with some skills, let alone someone who can't even land his plane yet and lets it run out of fuel. Still with no instructor. Still crashing planes. A plane that is marginal at best as a trainer even WITH an instructor.

What is this now, 3rd crash? 4th? How many planes have you gone through?

Why should I, or anyone else here for that matter, take the time to give you advice when you clearly have no intention of taking it? You're not going to hear anything new here that you already haven't been told on RCU.

[donxavr]

[QUOTE=donxavr]Hey Bob, I found an instructor out here around my area. So I did mean it when I said I was gonna get one. I just couldn't wait though, and I just had to fly again. And as for listening to advice, well you saw I wasn't at my place of work :D[/QUOTE

Do you really think you can learn to land your plane by reading something that someone here tells you to do in terms of actual stick moves?

So, here you are, six weeks plus later, still asking for help on how to land. Still flying in areas where it's clearly not a good idea for someone with some skills, let alone someone who can't even land his plane yet and lets it run out of fuel. Still with no instructor. Still crashing planes. A plane that is marginal at best as a trainer even WITH an instructor.

What is this now, 3rd crash? 4th? How many planes have you gone through?

Why should I, or anyone else here for that matter, take the time to give you advice when you clearly have no intention of taking it? You're not going to hear anything new here that you already haven't been told on RCU.


Bob, I never crashed a plane until now, please pay attention if your gonna try and belittle someone. The last time was just a ruff landing and the only reason I had to do repairs was because the front landing gear in the F-22 needs to be braced, so please don't make up #'s just to make me out to be something I am not. I didn't ask you to post anything here, you chose to do that. So you do what you want, frankly either way it doesn't effect me :p . I'm gonna take what I can and keep it movin'. I'll be flying again tomorrow with my "instructor". Oh, and yes I will fly again.
Thanks.. :D

[Bob Mitchell]

>> Bob, I never crashed a plane until now, please pay attention if your gonna try and belittle someone. The last time was just a ruff landing and the only reason I had to do repairs was because the front landing gear in the F-22 needs to be braced, so please don't make up #'s just to make me out to be something I am not. I didn't ask you to post anything here, you chose to do that. So you do what you want, frankly either way it doesn't effect me . I'm gonna take what I can and keep it movin'. I'll be flying again tomorrow with my "instructor". Oh, and yes I will fly again.
Thanks.. <<

So it's the airplanes fault that it got broken? Really?

OK, let me rephrase the question. How many times have you "broken" your airplane and had to "repair" it before you could fly again?

I have no doubt that you will fly again. I also have no doubt that you will have to "repair" your "not-crashed" plane again as well. Until you actually fly with an instructor in an area meant to fly such a plane as the F22 PTS you are going to be "repairing" your "not-crashed" plane for some time to come. BTW, any competent instructor would also be giving you advice about how to keep track of flight times without getting distracted, and how to monitor and estimate fuel consumption. Not to mention how to handle a dead-stick landing as well. For a newbie who can't land their plane without it requiring repairs anyway, a deadstick landing is the last thing you want.

Again.......given that you've ignored the advice you got several weeks ago in another forum, and have been continuing to try to teach yourself how to land without requiring "repairs", why should you expect anyone here to waste their time giving you advice, much less trying to post written "landing lessons"? If you're just going to ignore the advice given to you, why even bother to ask in the first place?

I can't imagine anyone here (or there, either) that want's you to continue having problems, and either losing your plane or needing significant repairs to try again. You've been given some honest, thoughtful answers by folks who want newcomers to succeed and enjoy the hobby. The fact that you're getting essentially the same advice here that you did on RCU is not just a coincidence. OTOH, if you keep doing the same things, you have to expect the same results. (I think there is a definition in there somewhere)

Feel free to have the last word. I really don't have anything else to say to you about this that I haven't already said. Good luck, and I hope you stick it out and become a competent RC pilot who isn't consistently endagering his own equipment, or any one who happens to be in the area.

Bob

[jetmech05]

Oh yea I remember you now...your second choice of a flying site wasn't much better than your first....
When I told you then do get an instructor...I meant for you to fly with that instructor until you were solo'd....
Good luck

[deerfreak]

I'm sure you are not the first nor will you be the last to get excited and want to fly your new plane. Search in forums there are several post on how to land now with that said. You can read all the forums/posts you like, it may give you a few tips but it will not replace hands on sticks with instructor. Glad to see you got instructor. Someone said either in here or in RCU (Take off is optional landing is mandatory), the instructor will also help you with fuel consumption tips. Good Luck and get yourself some extra epoxy and a assortment of CA (thin/medium) ain't repairs FUN

[GunnyGlow]

I don't think I read anyone suggest a sim...like Real Flight!!!

Poles and airplanes don't mix....nuff said.

[Viper Pilot]

Get an instructor or suffer the consequences. It's really your choice.

BTW, an instructor isn't really much help if you insist on taking flights on your own when you want to.

[donxavr]

I'm sure you are not the first nor will you be the last to get excited and want to fly your new plane. Search in forums there are several post on how to land now with that said. You can read all the forums/posts you like, it may give you a few tips but it will not replace hands on sticks with instructor. Glad to see you got instructor. Someone said either in here or in RCU (Take off is optional landing is mandatory), the instructor will also help you with fuel consumption tips. Good Luck and get yourself some extra epoxy and a assortment of CA (thin/medium) ain't repairs FUN


The bottom line is guys that I put up my thread as a discussion and while I was editing some how I made a duplicate then there were 2 of the same and I'm sure that wasn't allowed so I change the one to this one but my intension was to make a discussion. In RCU I received very good advice on landing in fact someone gave me a link:http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20
but i do appreciate what has been said.

[patrick181]

Yet another mislead beginner by Hangar 9. An F22 and Trainer should not be in the same sentence. I have flown the F22 and its pretty high performance for a "trainer".

Considering the non AMA sanctioned field, possible non AMA insured pilot and the pilots skill level, two words - Slow Stick.

HOWEVER, if you must....

The F22 lands hot, I dont know how it flies with the so called "trainer" gear on but it should just settle down. Line up for approach and bring the throttle to about 15%, as it closes in on your position cut the throttle to an idle and keep it there. The tip is (especially since you have a lot of room to land) to make sure not to tilt the airplane up or down too much with the elevator, try to keep it level and coast her in. Too much nose down and she will speed up, too much nose up and she may slow too much and stall in the air.

If you had a high wing electric trainer or slow stick it would do most of this work for you.

[fhhuber506771]

Well... Its not certain that doxavr is in the US...

The language in his video I think is Spanish. Its quite possible he's from any of a large number of countries (Mexico, Panama, Columbia, Peru..... US...) Or I could have misidentified the language... and that would indicate a differnt set of possible locations.

So the advice for him to join AMA may or may not apply.

And... AMA doesn't really sanction fields. AMA affilitated clubs set up fields. AMA has some recommendations about how to select a flying site, and some safety rules generally intended to help prevent injuries.

An instructor would help... But donxavr actually appears to have a decent handle on flying... just not on landing or site selection.

It is possible... if he'd had a decent site, he could have brought it in without significant damage, as he had a passable approach.... (until he ran into the pole.)

[donxavr]

[QUOTE

If you had a high wing electric trainer or slow stick it would do most of this work for you.[/QUOTE]

Yes I know what you mean, I have a supercub and a typhoon and I really haven't any problems landing them. I'm having a hard time landing the F-22 on the FSone sim as well. I had a ruff landing and had to epoxy the front landing gear but if I'd have done that in the beginning there would have been no need for repairs

[fhhuber506771]

The F-22 wants a little more speed ... nose up a bit (appx 5 to 7 deg) and power on.

HOLD the nose at a constant upward angle and vary your descent rate with throttle.

If dead-stick... establish a glide that maintains speed, an appx 20 to 30 ft from the goround begin pulling the nose up. It sort of dead sticks like the space shuttle... Steep glide and sharp flair.

Hold the nosewheel off the ground as long as possible by adding more elevator as the plane slows. That will cure its tendancy to bounce. If the nosewheel touches before the mains you are in trouble...

Practice the techniques on the flight sim.

The way the plane likes to be landed... you need the flaps. You can get it on the ground using other techniques without flaps... but it takes more skill and the plane will touch down at a higher speed.

**************

Can't tell from your pictures... there was a modification notice about the F-22. The lazer cut holes in the main fuselage frames weaken the nose right where the fake jet intakes meet the fuselage under the canopy. A couple of pieces of ply need to be epoxied in there to strengthen the plane.

Early F-22 kits don't have that note, or the pieces of ply to glue in... newer ones do.

Bouncy landings without the ply reinforcements glued in will snap the nose off right at the fake intakes.

[donxavr]

The F-22 wants a little more speed ... nose up a bit (appx 5 to 7 deg) and power on.

HOLD the nose at a constant upward angle and vary your descent rate with throttle.

If dead-stick... establish a glide that maintains speed, an appx 20 to 30 ft from the goround begin pulling the nose up. It sort of dead sticks like the space shuttle... Steep glide and sharp flair.

Hold the nosewheel off the ground as long as possible by adding more elevator as the plane slows. That will cure its tendancy to bounce. If the nosewheel touches before the mains you are in trouble...

Practice the techniques on the flight sim.

The way the plane likes to be landed... you need the flaps. You can get it on the ground using other techniques without flaps... but it takes more skill and the plane will touch down at a higher speed.

**************

Can't tell from your pictures... there was a modification notice about the F-22. The lazer cut holes in the main fuselage frames weaken the nose right where the fake jet intakes meet the fuselage under the canopy. A couple of pieces of ply need to be epoxied in there to strengthen the plane.

Early F-22 kits don't have that note, or the pieces of ply to glue in... newer ones do.

Bouncy landings without the ply reinforcements glued in will snap the nose off right at the fake intakes.


When I first bought the plane in Jan. I read everything I could about it as well as reviews and that was mentioned so I went ahead and did it. The problem I was told was that it also needed to be braced. My LHS explained after I took it down there needing repairs that the bulkhead Where the gear is screwed into was loose and epoxy needed to be added, he said to be generous. If you see where the gear wire exits you'll see the damage that was done on the ruff landing I was speaking of. The wire came back because the bulkhead was to flexible. In the other set of 4 pics you'll see that I was very generous with the epoxy in hopes of the same thing not happening again to my new one. :D
By the way the new kits bring the pieces of ply needed and instructions on how to do it.

[donxavr]

Can you please explain what the flywheel actually does on the engine I have on the raptor and where it's located and do you think it's a good idea to remove it???

[fhhuber506771]

The flywheel... is a debateable idea.

It add weight on the crankshaft which CAN help the motor have a more stable slow idle.

It also adds nose weight helping keep the CG forward. Beginners need the CG a LITTLE further forward than experienced modelers, because that makes the plane less likely to spin if you stall, and if it does spin its easier to recover.

If you have "mastered" the raptor with the flywheel... you can safely remove it. Make no other changes... and it will be more aerobatic... but less forgiving.

The flywheel effect on idle... I think is insignificant if you have an appropriate prop on the engine. Might be able to idle down 100 rpm less than without it.

[donxavr]

Thanks for the detailed answer, so it is inside the engine or on the outside behind the prop??

[fhhuber506771]

Its the blue/purple/black metal thing behind the prop. (often... but not always same color as the needle valve limiter collars)

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EVOE100
You can sort of see the black flywheel behind the spinner.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EVO100219A
Is the flywheel

You can press the steel part off of the aluminum... (never will get it back on right)
Or you can buy a replacement "drive washer"
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EVO100219

Having the flywheel can come in handy... if a plane needs nose weight, adding it as far forward as possible minimizes how much weight you have to add. We also use brass "acorn nuts" to add nose weight. (does virtually the same thing as the flywheel...)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=WR&I=LXE193
(comes in assorted threads for assorted engines... I think the Evolution uses 1/4-20... but not 100% sure)