F-16 Fighting Falcon ARF

[Flyboone]

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/fms005.jpg (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/f16.htm)

F-16 Fighting Falcon ARF

30-3/4" wingspan, 48-1/2" long, 35-1/2 oz. flying weight. All molded foam construction with lots of detail and a very smooth finish, painted with matte paint. Total assembly time is about one hour due to the low parts count and beautiful fit. The 70mm fan includes an OUTRUNNER motor that provides lots of thrust for quick takeoffs with a strong climbout. The ducting is very clean giving the F-16 impressive speed, but in a model large enough for easy flight orientation. Battery changes are quick: just remove the canopy (it is held in place with magnets) and swap it out. Access to the 70mm fan unit and 45A ESC is also very simple: just remove 2 screws and the entire middle section of the main duct can be removed. This is great for those who want to hop this one up or simply need easy access for maintenance and blade balancing. The main landing gear are installed without using any tools and only one allen screw installs the nose wheel steering. Model can be flown either off a runway with the included landing gear or it is easily hand launched. Flight times are about 5 minutes using the included 4 cell 2100 mAh LiPo battery. Landings are quite slow due to the large lifting body shape of the F-16. Bring it in with the nose high and it will slow to a walk. Includes 5 pre-installed servos. Requires a 4 channel radio.

For more information and to watch the video click HERE (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/f16.htmt)

Use this thread to discuss any and all things related to F-16 Fighting Falcon

[napOfTheEarth]

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/fms005.jpg (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/f16.htm)

F-16 Fighting Falcon ARF

30-3/4" wingspan, 48-1/2" long, 35-1/2 oz. flying weight. All molded foam construction with lots of detail and a very smooth finish, painted with matte paint. Total assembly time is about one hour due to the low parts count and beautiful fit. The 70mm fan includes an OUTRUNNER motor that provides lots of thrust for quick takeoffs with a strong climbout. The ducting is very clean giving the F-16 impressive speed, but in a model large enough for easy flight orientation. Battery changes are quick: just remove the canopy (it is held in place with magnets) and swap it out. Access to the 70mm fan unit and 45A ESC is also very simple: just remove 2 screws and the entire middle section of the main duct can be removed. This is great for those who want to hop this one up or simply need easy access for maintenance and blade balancing. The main landing gear are installed without using any tools and only one allen screw installs the nose wheel steering. Model can be flown either off a runway with the included landing gear or it is easily hand launched. Flight times are about 5 minutes using the included 4 cell 2100 mAh LiPo battery. Landings are quite slow due to the large lifting body shape of the F-16. Bring it in with the nose high and it will slow to a walk. Includes 5 pre-installed servos. Requires a 4 channel radio.

For more information and to watch the video click HERE (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/f16.htmt)

Use this thread to discuss any and all things related to F-16 Fighting Falcon


Hello

Has anyone flown this bird before?

Care to comment on all-stock thrust-to-weight ratio?

Can we see pics of ease of access to electronics - maintenance?

Any spare parts?

Looks like a winner!
Thanks!!

[Michael Paxton]

Saw this jet today at Hobby Lobby!
This thing is a must have!!!! It's gorgeous!!
(And with a LS-1400 in it?.....Zooom Zooom!!!)
:D

[mjbennett9]

I was VERY excited to both order and receive (quickly) the plane. It's very beautiful and large.

However, my first impressions of a few things led me to think it's too good to be true.

1. Manual is simple, but not in color and not updated. It shows uninstalled servos (if you can see that small to make them out). It leaves out several questions and building steps. For example, is the included glue cheap and takes 10 hours to dry and you should tape it in place? Doesn't say. Says you can use 5 min epoxy which I did, but you have to move quick and little time to clean up before it hardens. So I was left with a bit of epoxy sticking out of cracks because if I wiped it, it would show the spread. Included glue might have been easier, but also I've used included glues before and they did anything but glue.

2. I had to dig deep in cockpit to find servo wires (thought ESC ch3. wire was missing for a while. Also, the servo leads are not labeled and the other ends are buried so you don't know what is what.

3. Landing gear extremely hard to snap on--thought I was going to snap plan in half from force needed.

4. Canopy was at least 6mm too long. Even after shaving it down, it does not fit right. Magnets weren't aligned right.

5. Nose (about 4" worth) is just a cheap piece of hallow plastic that will surely dent from a pebble kicking up from the ground. They should have used something more solid. Tacky!

6. The right elevator was not assembled correctly. While I did dry fit everything before gluing, I did not check for full range of motion on all moving parts-I just saw that it moved.

7. directions do not give a hint of where to run, and where NOT to run the receiver wire.

8. Linkages/clevis' are cheap, cheap, cheap, and do not include a rubber o-ring to go around the linkage to keep if from popping off. The clevis' were questionably secure. O-rings really are needed. Also, there's approx. 1/16" of an inch play in all control surfaces because of poor linkages.

9. I do not like the idea that the fake bombs are glued OVER the servos. What if one goes bad?

I called support on these items and right away could tell I was just a customer that was interferring with their day of "work". Very to the point, not looking to help, almost rude.

Had I not put together the plane, I got the impression that they would have sent a new one (who paid shipping would be iffy). They "suggested" had I checked everything first, there wouldn't be this problem. I did check for any damage, but I can't know 100% if they did shabby quality control on their end. I did my best to check everything.
As for the canopy, he was suggesting to trim it down, which I already tried. The other problem is they installed the metal (for magnets) incorrectly as well. As for the elevator, he suggested I trim it. yup, cut my new plane! Now I already know/knew that trick, but why should I do that? But it's not just that, the hinge was installed at an angle and not right anyway.

So I'm thinking they'll send me new parts out overnight so I can fly this weekend. Nope! They do NOT have any replacement parts until approx. 6 weeks out (end of October). Yes, that's right. No replacement parts.

Ok, I'm already bummed out at this point and had a few more questions that were not obvious in the manual (if you can call it that). I did have one that had to be answered. Where do I run the antenna wire? Good question, since "manual" only shows a pic of where to put the unit, but not how/where to run the antenna. Support in a flip way, says, "I don't know, where ever you think it should go". Can you believe that!!! so I guess I should go off and start punching holes in my new expensive plane and guessing where it should go.

I would NOT say Hobby Lobby is customer friendly. It's a REAL shame because the products are really attractive and best I've seen for what they are. I typically like a true ARF that takes 20 or 40 hours. But having this beauty of a plane in an hour is nice. They say an hour, but taking your time is more like 2 to 3 hours--after dry fitting, double checking everything, etc. Oh, and in my case, shaving canopy, adjusting trims, trying to find antenna location, etc. I still have not found an antenna location yet.

UPDATE: The next day I received an email from Jay at Hobby Lobby. EXCELLENT guy. He was very nice and was even willing to take assembled plane back by "making it fit" back into the box. I thought that was very accommodating of him. After all that, I ended up using my 5 years of plane building skills to make what I had, work so I could fly this weekend. Jay will order the parts for me still and ship when they come in.

Also, I forgot to mention that the battery compartment needs more attention too. The video on their site shows two straps, but manual and plane only have one. I ended up adding more velcro on my own. Their one flimsy strap is not good enough for this type of plane and a heave 4S battery.

Lastly, the manual does not say what throws all the control surfaces should be. So, I tend to go for close to max with EXP set to about -50%. We'll see...

Well, I'm hoping to have a good flight(s) this weekend. :-)

[Sid3ways]

Sorry to hear about all the issues you are having with the plane MJ. It is too bad that HL seems to want to be the first on the block of major US distributors with larger foamy jets that they are overlooking normal quality issues and poor designs to get them out.

The F5s retract problem, fan issues, single elevator servo (that was changed). Not very good to see issues with this bird already.

[AtTheMet]

Just received and built the Hobby-Lobby F16 last night. My story is a little different than mjbennet9's. I'd like to address his complaints.

1. Manual is simple, but not in color and not updated. It shows uninstalled servos (if you can see that small to make them out). It leaves out several questions and building steps.

THE MANUAL SHOWS THE PARTS KIT, THATS WHY THE SERVOS DISPLAY AS UNINSTALLED. THERE WERE NO BUILD STEPS LEFT OUT THAT I COULD FIND.

For example, is the included glue cheap and takes 10 hours to dry and you should tape it in place? Doesn't say. Says you can use 5 min epoxy which I did, but you have to move quick and little time to clean up before it hardens. So I was left with a bit of epoxy sticking out of cracks because if I wiped it, it would show the spread. Included glue might have been easier, but also I've used included glues before and they did anything but glue.

I USED THE GLUE INCLUDED IN THE KIT, WORKED JUST GREAT. 5-MINUTE EPOXY WOULD WORK AS WELL, YOU WILL HAVE SOME OVERRUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU USE.

2. I had to dig deep in cockpit to find servo wires (thought ESC ch3. wire was missing for a while. Also, the servo leads are not labeled and the other ends are buried so you don't know what is what.

ALL SERVO END LEADS WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE FUSELAGE AREA. THE RUDDER/FRONT GEAR WIRE IS OBVIOUS, AND THE 2 ELEVATOR AND AILERON SERVOS ARE JOINED WITH A Y-ADAPTER. ONE OF THE ELEV/AIL PAIR COULD HAVE BEEN MARKED.

3. Landing gear extremely hard to snap on--thought I was going to snap plan in half from force needed.

MINE WORKED JUST FINE. UNSNAPPED THE LATCH, INSERTED THE GEAR, AND SNAPPED BACK, GOOD AND TIGHT. GREAT FIT.

4. Canopy was at least 6mm too long. Even after shaving it down, it does not fit right. Magnets weren't aligned right.

MY CANOPY WAS TOO LONG AS WELL. TOOK ABOUT 3 MINUTES WITH AN X-ACTO AND IT NOW FITS GREAT.

5. Nose (about 4" worth) is just a cheap piece of hallow plastic that will surely dent from a pebble kicking up from the ground. They should have used something more solid. Tacky!

I AGREE. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN ENGINEERED BETTER.

6. The right elevator was not assembled correctly. While I did dry fit everything before gluing, I did not check for full range of motion on all moving parts-I just saw that it moved.

NO PROBLEM HERE, MINE WAS FINE.

7. directions do not give a hint of where to run, and where NOT to run the receiver wire.

I USE SPEKTRUM DX6i, DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

8. Linkages/clevis' are cheap, cheap, cheap, and do not include a rubber o-ring to go around the linkage to keep if from popping off. The clevis' were questionably secure. O-rings really are needed. Also, there's approx. 1/16" of an inch play in all control surfaces because of poor linkages.

INCLUDED CLEVIS ARE SIMILAR TO THE OLD ONES WE USED TO USE ON GASSERS, THEY SNAP TOGETHER ON THE END. COMPARED TO THE STUFF I NORMALLY USE, I HAVE TO AGREE HERE, I WILL CHANGE MINE OUT EVENTUALLY.

9. I do not like the idea that the fake bombs are glued OVER the servos. What if one goes bad?

EASY FIX. INSTALL WITH CA, THEN IF SERVO GOES BAD, POP/PRY/CUT OFF THE WING TANKS, REPLACE SERVO, THEN REINSTALL. I PERSONALLY LIKE THE WAY THE WING TANKS COVER UP THE SERVO ARM AND LINKAGE. NOT SURE IF I'LL USE THEM THOUGH, DUE TO SPEED ISSUES.

I called support on these items and right away could tell I was just a customer that was interferring with their day of "work". Very to the point, not looking to help, almost rude.

I HAVE NEVER EVER HAD THAT PROBLEM WITH ANYONE AT HOBBY-LOBBY. SOUNDS LIKE YOU WERE JUST IN A BAD MOOD.

Had I not put together the plane, I got the impression that they would have sent a new one (who paid shipping would be iffy). They "suggested" had I checked everything first, there wouldn't be this problem. I did check for any damage, but I can't know 100% if they did shabby quality control on their end. I did my best to check everything.
As for the canopy, he was suggesting to trim it down, which I already tried. The other problem is they installed the metal (for magnets) incorrectly as well. As for the elevator, he suggested I trim it. yup, cut my new plane! Now I already know/knew that trick, but why should I do that? But it's not just that, the hinge was installed at an angle and not right anyway.

So I'm thinking they'll send me new parts out overnight so I can fly this weekend. Nope! They do NOT have any replacement parts until approx. 6 weeks out (end of October). Yes, that's right. No replacement parts.

IF YOU NOTICE, THE WEB SITE LISTS THE PARTS AVAILABLITY SCHEDULE.

Ok, I'm already bummed out at this point and had a few more questions that were not obvious in the manual (if you can call it that). I did have one that had to be answered. Where do I run the antenna wire? Good question, since "manual" only shows a pic of where to put the unit, but not how/where to run the antenna. Support in a flip way, says, "I don't know, where ever you think it should go". Can you believe that!!! so I guess I should go off and start punching holes in my new expensive plane and guessing where it should go.

I would NOT say Hobby Lobby is customer friendly. It's a REAL shame because the products are really attractive and best I've seen for what they are. I typically like a true ARF that takes 20 or 40 hours. But having this beauty of a plane in an hour is nice. They say an hour, but taking your time is more like 2 to 3 hours--after dry fitting, double checking everything, etc. Oh, and in my case, shaving canopy, adjusting trims, trying to find antenna location, etc. I still have not found an antenna location yet.

UPDATE: The next day I received an email from Jay at Hobby Lobby. EXCELLENT guy. He was very nice and was even willing to take assembled plane back by "making it fit" back into the box. I thought that was very accommodating of him. After all that, I ended up using my 5 years of plane building skills to make what I had, work so I could fly this weekend. Jay will order the parts for me still and ship when they come in.

Also, I forgot to mention that the battery compartment needs more attention too. The video on their site shows two straps, but manual and plane only have one. I ended up adding more velcro on my own. Their one flimsy strap is not good enough for this type of plane and a heave 4S battery.

INSTALLED VELCRO STRAP IS NOT FLIMSY AT ALL, MORE THAN ENOUGH TO HOLD 4C. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU NEED MORE, THEN JUST INSTALL A SECOND ONE.

Lastly, the manual does not say what throws all the control surfaces should be. So, I tend to go for close to max with EXP set to about -50%. We'll see...

THIS IS NOT A 3D PLANE. IT IS A DUCTED FAN JET. WITH THE SPEED YOU WON'T NEED MUCH ON THE THROWS.

Well, I'm hoping to have a good flight(s) this weekend. :-)

GOOD LUCK.

[mjbennett9]

AtTheMet, do you work for Hobby Lobby? Anyway, don't want to get in a bashing session with a fellow rc'er. My point was that we are not all great builders and the manual could be better written like the phase 3 EDF manual, for example.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725426
And I called Ed at Hobby Lobby with a great attitude. He was rude. Jay, was AWESOME and treated me like a customer. As for throws, no kidding it's not 3D, but
I've built many an ARF, and ALL, even GWS, includes "recommended" throws. Oh, please message the group when your 4cell battery finally drops out at 500' doing a roll

[AtTheMet]

Nope, sorry, I don't work for Hobby Lobby. Just relating my experience with the F-16. Honestly, you don't even need a manual with this kit. Glue on the nose, fitted wings, elevators, and rudder, install landing gear, hook up rudder and elevator linkage, install receiver, put in battery, and viola, ready to fly. It really can't get any easier.

FYI - No worries about 4c dropping out at 500' roll, can't see that far. I do however fly a Seagull X-Ray 3D all over the sky with a 3C 2600 mah held in with one rubber band and a 1 inch strip of velcro, hasn't come out yet. With these small 16 to 40 ounce kits it doesn't take much if it's done well.

[PlaneNuttz]

These things can happen. I Recieved the f-4 a couple of days ago and just opened it up today to start construction. To be honest and not overly critical i am very disappointed in the jets construction. I originally purchased this for a fly-in that i had limited time to complete and prepare for. looks like its been a waste of my time and money im sorry to say. For starters all the servos are loose and barely glued on. the tail servos move freely and seem to be only tacked glued. I would imagine for a newbie in jets this may of been overlooked and caused severe flutter or loss of plane. the wings dont mate properly due to the servos interfering and the rear tab on wing also dosent allow the wing to mate properly. The hinging was poorly done and barely glued as well. I had one wings aileron thats was so out of wack it was sad to see. I started to repair this by reglueing and aligning the aileron with the wing. (not an easy task by the way)This was the first thing i started on and noticed as soon as i started construction also. This caused me to go over the intire jet in which i still havent completed because of the already mentioned problems. I still dont know if the electronics works. To get this bird flying will require alot of rework and thats not what was advertised. And one more thing i noticed was the motor lead wires and esc wires where they connect are basically not protected and somewhat exposed which could cause a short inflight. Now i sit here and ponder if its worth doing all the repairs or returning it. This is not what i expected. Maybe I got one of the bad batches. But i didnt buy this for speed or expect it to be perfect. But i did expect to get what was advertised. It will require alot of rework and atleast 8 hrs of work just to get a solid airframe.( I did not purchase the jet for that) And i havent even started it up yet. For 260.00 its a good deal. Now i sit here and ponder do i fix it or send it back and show up jetless at my favorite flyin. By all means im not slamming hobby lobby. I have had many planes from them and they do a bang up job all the time. I highly regard them as a top distributor in the hobby. I know these things can happen. I guess im wondering if anyone else has had similar problems or im just one of the lucky winners.
Its a beautiful jet but it will need alot of rework. Only thing i didnt like when it came to the fuse design was that the wings just glue to the side of fuse with no real support. So i dont recommend trying to get this bird to fast. the wings will just fold. you would have to reinforce the wings with a carbon rod and proballly do some glass work to. and rehinging will be a must at higher speeds.

This was me this morning on my expereince with my jet. I decided to do the mods, Let hobby lobby know my problems,and intend to fly the pants off on it at the flyin this weekend!! But i wont purchase another arf jet again. i will stay with kit forms ofr what im presently into, time consuming plan built airframes. :cool:

But again for less then 260 shipped to your door you cant beat it. the only thing better would of been the plane not assembled at all and some touch up paint included. then the construction would be left to the buyer. then it would be how you want it. rework is much more time consuming but these jets are a great bargain and will perform great considering. Plus the f-4 outperforms the f-16 right out of the box!! :D

And like someone replied to me this morning and made much sense,

TAKE YOUR TIME AND GET-R-DONE!!!!!!!!! :D

Hobby Lobby has provided you edf fans with a bigger,better performing edf for little money!

And for us guys who still refuse to go 2.4 if you want to route your antenna use a 2/56 nylon pushrod and route it along the same path as the battery and carefully exit it out the rear. And a little trick to keep the attenna from interferance wrap the motor to esc and esc to battery wires in a few layers of aluminum foil. this will provide instulation from your rx antenna and keep it from glitching on you.

[mjbennett9]

Great antenna trick. I ended up poking a hold below the receiver and just send it down entire length of the fuse. I think the ESC is generating a LOT of interference though--even with antenna a couple of inches away from ESC/battery, etc. I just had a bad F16 flying weekend. Jumping ahead, I save the bird with no damage. However, I had/have several issues that concern me. First. I noticed that the deans ultras are not OEM and are the fake ones. Sure way to tell is the color and fit. The color is more dark maroon than OEM blood red. And the fakes push/pull in/out with no effort. This is a concern for a number of reasons. While I did not solder off the male connector to check, I found a few fakes to actually have internal shorts (most likely a conductive insulation--yes, I did say conductive). While I was getting 3MGohms of resistance, it should be infinite. I had power/glitch issues. A shorting deans would do this...as would antenna interference. A good ESC does not generate interference and I'm afraid the cheap ESC is what gave me an issue. I did notice some iron ferrite wraps on power end, so I think they know they have an issue. I have more powerful setups and no noise what so ever. I did not take apart the fuse, so I don't know if there's a BEC in there, but someone at field said he has a hobby lobby edf jet and had to put on a BEC to take care of his power loss/glitch issues. I am getting glitches as well with antenna all the way extended and only 150' out. I took same receiver and put in another plane and it worked perfect--ran out of range checking room and still no glitch on a Berg receiver. I have 3 and no issues with Berg.

So, I'm suspecting a possible bad/cheap battery, bad Deans (fake), bad/cheap ESC or all the above. I'm thinking that when they send me the new f16, I'll use my own ESC/BEC and foil the wires to shield the antenna (although I doubt I'll have to with brand name ESC/BEC).
I skipped the fun part, but I almost lost plane twice during maiden. I I had a hard time aligning the steering linkage to the rudder because they are chincy (wish they were on their own servos). I gave up and opted to have perfect steering and I'll live with rudder out a little. I gave full power and had a difficult time taking off. Advertisement talks about vertical power--I had none. Then when I got out about 150', the bird must have glitched and tried to do 3D stuff :-) I thought maybe it was off CG, but it's right on and it took off fine, until it had that magic range check limit of 150' -- most likely antenna / ESC issues. I immediately landed-barely, and tried again. Same results. Packed up the plane and flew my missle F27C strker modified brushless instead.
Will be working with Hobby Lobby tomorrow to get an exchange, but this time I'll use brand name electronics. I'll give the servos a shot--I paid for them, might as well try to use them.

[mjbennett9]

Found an interesting read on more aluminum foil to better nasa/space age shielding, to try a different receiver that filters out glithing. It's something in the F16 as same receiver taht was in f16 has no issues, and I've never had glitching on a range check before until F16.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2894.html

I ended up buying below to wrap my wires...we'll see what happens when I get it.


METGLAS® MAGNETIC SHIELDING FILM


Paper Thin and Highly Effective

Space-age technology has produced this unique ultra-high permeability (1,000,000+) magnetic shielding alloy. Unlike conventional Mumetal® shielding alloys which are nickel/iron based and depend on bulk for effectiveness, MetGlas is a cobalt based alloy which is only 0.00065" thick (that's 16 microns, a red blood cell is 8 microns across)! Thinner means less material is needed. Less material means less weight and lower cost. Easy to handle, too. Cut it with a scissors, shape it with your fingers, tape it in place. Flexible and tough, with moderate corrosion resistance, it can be used indoors or out. Near-zero magnetostriction means it can be flexed over and over without losing its shielding properties.

Wrap wiring, pipes, switches, or electro-magnets. Make shields for your shavers, electric toothbrushes, hair dryers, alarm clocks or lighting ballasts. Even lay it flat (in our experiments, we saw nearly 90% field reduction when a 4" x 4" MetGlas shield was placed flat against an energized lamp cord). Note: This material tends to saturate easily and is not recommended for shielding strong magnetic fields. This is the material often used in Electronic Article Surveillance systems. Formula 2714AZ, supplied annealed.

One more goody... http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t244152p1/?highlight=ADRYAN

[AtTheMet]

MJ,

glad you got some of your problems resolved. I also flew my maiden HL F-16 this weekend, and it was definitely interesting.

SATURDAY
Ground test at flight field revealed the power glitch you guys mentioned above. Ran the motor up 1/2 throttle and worked elev/ail and motor glitched slightly but it was totally random. Decided to give it a go anyway. Takeoff was sluggish, not as much power as expected, but plane flew really well. On second pass the plane lurched up and to the right, I initiated full up elev to barely keep the plane level. On the obvious that something was amiss, I brought her down in one piece to find the right elevator servo popped out of its cutout and had locked the right elevator in full down. OK, I should have checked that, my bad. All servos and hinges now C/A'd.

My flight was good, but vibration in the motor, and the elevator response could best be described as VERY SLUGGISH. The wire links they use are fine for AILERON, only a couple of inches, not so for elevator. Way too much play. I will immediately replace this to beef it up.

LATE SATURDAY AFTERNOON.
Still concerned about motor glitch and vibration. Removed bottom hatch to get access to fan and ESC. After balancing the fan blade, tightening the motor screws that were all loose, and reinstalling the shaft adapter which was not seated properly, this fan unit now works like I expected it to. Test run up almost sent the model flying out of my grip, at least 25 to 35 percent more power, and SMOOTH.

My factory ESC is a total POS. It had an inline BEC that would overheat within 10 seconds of connecting the battery. Sorry, not dealing with crap electronics. I had a 45-amp electrifly laying around, so I yanked the factory POS, and after scrounging up a servo and battery extension with the help of my local shop GURU, we're back in business.

SUNDAY MORNING.
Unbelievable difference. Smooth roll-off, up, and POWER. Smoooooth power. Sounds like a unijet fan on windup. Nice vertical, loops, even harriered the darn thing (at 150 feet). Also, no problem at all with the battery velcro strap coming loose, and I threw the thing around pretty good. Only remaining issue is the elevator linkage I mentioned above, it definitely needs stiffening up, and I'll do that before the next flight.

This is to me a really nice looking F-16, and everyone at the field was totally WOW'd by the looks. I didn't realize though it was made in China, and they copy/steal EVERYTHING, aka the cheap factory ESC in my plane. Once I had to tweak the motor (which I shouldn't have had to do, though sometimes expected with a new plane), it flew really well, though landings were very touchy due to the mushy elevator response.

For the money, not bad. Just wish the motor, ESC, etc were of better quality. There will be issues with this I expect.

[mjbennett9]

Hi "Met" (real name?).

I have EXACTLY same jet response as you did below (thought it was CG at first, but knew better).

SATURDAY
Ground test at flight field revealed the power glitch you guys mentioned above. Ran the motor up 1/2 throttle and worked elev/ail and motor glitched slightly but it was totally random. Decided to give it a go anyway. Takeoff was sluggish, not as much power as expected, but plane flew really well. On second pass the plane lurched up and to the right, I initiated full up elev to barely keep the plane level. On the obvious that something was amiss, I brought her down in one piece to find the right elevator servo popped out of its cutout and had locked the right elevator in full down. OK, I should have checked that, my bad. All servos and hinges now C/A'd.

It too thought motor sounded odd, but being my first EDF, I had nothing to baseline it against. It took a LOT of runway to takeoff (no power).


Can you tell me how to perform the balancing, shaft, and motor fix steps? EDF is all new to me.

Sounds like that and new ESC made a world of difference.

Also, what BEC did you use?

Oh, if you don't mind:
1. Did the included glue hold up ok?
2. How much working time did it give you?
3. How long till it dried where you didn't have to hold pieces together anymore?
4. Did you route your antenna thru inner channel where electronics went, or thru bottom under plane?
5. What kind of glue did you use to reseal the plastic tubing that you had to remove in order to access the factory ESC?
6. Did you have to add any server extensions or add wiring to replacement ESC to make the length of the fuselage?

I too got stares at the plane. I saw another hobby lobby EDF jet at field and it looked very "foamy" fake (white with stickers). They did a great job with this. I bet for another $50 ($299) in better electronics, this could have been a top notch ARF.



Thanks,
Michael

[AtTheMet]

Michael,

To balance the EDF, remove the strap and 2 screws, pull off lower unit and pull out the while plastic covering. Assuming we have the same setup (you never know with Chinese manufacture), my fan unit had a large slotted screw on front. Unscrew that and remove the plastic cone to reveal the adapter shaft. Unscrewed the approx 7/16th size nut and washer, and pull the fan blade straight out. Next I noticed my prop/shaft adapter was the compression type (no set screws to hold in place), so it just pulls straight out. (*note* be extra careful when putting this back on to make sure it seats properly). My buddy had a nice magnetic prop balancer, and we found that one blade on the fan was too long and actually rubbing the fan housing. After mucho sanding we got it pretty well balanced. From the tail end, my motor was mounted with 4 screws, which I carefully tightened, they were all kind of loose. Reassemble everything in reverse order and you should be good to go. This is my first EDF as well, and I found out from my buddies that fly EDF's that fan balancing is CRITICAL for the motor to be efficient and smooth. These things are turning 40/50 thousand rpm.

The ESC I installed was an Electrifly SS-45 with built-in BEC (programmable).

1. Did the included glue hold up ok?
So far, so good. I also thick CA'd the joints after the regular stuff dried overnite.

2. How much working time did it give you?
just guessing, 5-7 minutes.

3. How long till it dried where you didn't have to hold pieces together anymore?
my stuff got real tacky after a few minutes, although I found out you could still
rip it out after about 15 minutes :-). The book does tell you that if you use the
supplied glue, to let it cure overnight. If I had it to do over, I'd use 5-min epoxy.

4. Did you route your antenna thru inner channel where electronics went, or thru bottom under plane?
I use Spektrum DX6i and 6100e receiver, so I don't have external antenna.

5. What kind of glue did you use to reseal the plastic tubing that you had to remove in order to access the factory ESC?
I just reseated it in the bottom of the fuselage, there was a slot cut in the foam along most of where this fits in, and I secured with strips of clear packing tape. I did it this way thinking I might have to go back in if my ESC didn't work. No problems after 4 flights with it this way. I may eventually go back and glue it down better. Just make sure you get the end to slide up under the fan housing, this is what locks it down on that end.

6. Did you have to add any server extensions or add wiring to replacement ESC to make the length of the fuselage?
Yes, I had to use a 12" servo extention, and a 16" battery extension to reach back up into the front compartment.

I too got stares at the plane. I saw another hobby lobby EDF jet at field and it looked very "foamy" fake (white with stickers). They did a great job with this. I bet for another $50 ($299) in better electronics, this could have been a top notch ARF.


I spoke with Todd at Hobby-Lobby this morning just to give him a heads-up on this ESC issue and fan balancing. I think this is a new distributor for them and the first batch of stuff, so, unfortunately, some glitches are expected. But when you buy a kit that is advertised as ARF, with especially the motor and ESC already installed, then they should work and work well. My problem is I have the patience of Job <my kids did that to me :-) > plus I already had the ESC to drop in the plane. Many people would get PO'd at this situation, and rightfully so. But like I said, she flies really well now, and looks great in the air. I get 5-6 minutes from the supplied battery. I bought a Thunder Power 2600 mah 4S which gives me 7-8 minutes flight time.

Pete

[AtTheMet]

OK, figured out how to post some pics here :p

[mjbennett9]

Thanks for all the info, Pete. I'm going to check with hobby shop and see what kind of balancer they recommend. Hobby Lobby is going to swap my plan out. I plan on using my own electronics. I am very tempted to use my own servos too. Use the stock ones in a slow stick or something. :-)

[mjbennett9]

Below link looks like my ESC. For $21 (50A--43A actual), it makes me think the electronics are a real issue.

http://lightflightrc.com/ Check out products, motors/escs. then click on the 50A ESC.

A good 40A ESC is about $60.

[AtTheMet]

Yep, that looks like mine as well. Mine also had what looked like an inline BEC on the receiver wire. Really cheese looking stuff. When I first saw it my initial reaction was "no way this is a 45 amp ESC".

Here is what I replaced it with, was a little over $50.
http://www.electrifly.com/escs/gpmm1840-2.jpg

[lashmett75]

Well I got my F-16 last Thurs. Spent 3 hours putting this bird together. Making sure everything was good and square. Check the fan blade connection to the motor even though the manual said it didnt need to be. Long story short, after takeoff the fan disconnected from the motor shaft and she went nose into the tera ferma. The battery is shot, nose is trashed from 3 prior to start of the ducting forward. Not pretty at all. I have filed a defective product complaint with Hobby Lobby. So we will see what the outcome is. I have 2 other ducted jets. The Learjet by Hobby Lobby and the L-39 by Freewing. So it is safe to say that it wasnt pilot error.

[mjbennett9]

It may be the housing is pushed in a little, but just visually checking, it looks like one of my fan ends is approx. .5mm longer than the other ones. Interesting! :-)

[mjbennett9]

Do you think it's worth buy the fuse/parts and building from scratch with all good electronics/motor, servos, etc.? The complete fuse, wings, etc. is about $100. I'm guessing it would add $200, but should be worth it. I just don't know enought about DF to make a good motor/fan selection to fit this plane. hobby lobby does have an upgrade on their site, but WAY over priced--IMHO.

[AtTheMet]

Sounds like the fan blade nut was not tightened from the factory. When I took mine apart to balance the fan blade I did notice that the nut came loose without a whole lot of effort.

[AtTheMet]

MJ,

I would build it from a kit, I think it looks that good until something else better comes along. I'd like to see bolt on wings with carbon tubes though instead of glue, but that may be a design issue and not possible with this type plane. Also I agree, the upgrade HL offers is WAY overpriced. One issue I have with the upgrade is, my fuselage cutout was made specifically the size to fit the 2100 mAh 4S that came with the kit. I got a TP 2600 as a second battery, but it is 1 1/4 " longer and I had to cut out the front section to make the battery fit. The Enerland battery they show as the "upgraded" version is even longer than my TP. So does that mean the upgraded version has a different fuselage design ? Just curious.

[mjbennett9]

On a positive note, Pete... I got my replacement F16 today. yes! I have not opened it yet, but hoping all is ok. I'll spend better part of this week checking it out from top to bottom... full movement of all parts, CA'ng the servos (I'll give stock ones a try, but may swap out later), replacing linkages with 2/56 rods (I think that's the size), solder on clevis', replace control horns, use shielding I purchased above to wrap around electrical wires, servos leads, etc. to block interference. I am also waiting on a dual conversion receiver (neutron 6s dual conversion--more of an extra layer of protection). I also with replace ESC/BEC with a brand name one. Finally, I'll check/balance the fan and check that all nuts are tightened. Once all that's done, I'll finally get to build it. LOL

[db4kids]

Flew the Hobby-lobby F-16 today or should i say I tried to. On full throttle taxing the ESC Burned up on the ground Smoked poured from the plane.

[AtTheMet]

Michael,

Ain't flying fun ? :D Sounds like you've got all the bases covered. I bought my new elev linkage yesterday (going with metal clevis as well) and thicker rods that won't bend in flight.

Oh, and here's another little gotcha I discovered. I was going to install some longer elev servo arms I had left from some HT-55's on another build. But they don't fit the F-16 servos, too small. So the F-16 factory servos are who-knows-what brand. I think the Chinese are doing this on purpose just to drive us nuts :censored:

Post us when you get it built and up again. Hope it all goes well.

Patience, Grasshopper :p

[AtTheMet]

Flew the Hobby-lobby F-16 today or should i say I tried to. On full throttle taxing the ESC Burned up on the ground Smoked poured from the plane.


I was just waiting on someone to make this post, saw this one coming. Now I consider myself extremely lucky to get two flights in before swapping out the ESC.

[mjbennett9]

Something to druel over... :-)

http://www.tamjets.com/original/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=365

[ARF Guy]

I also have the Hobby Lobby 70MM F-16 and I had to add lead in the nose to get it to balance at the 78MM. I also contacted HB's tech support since there were no control throws in the book and they told me the one they fly on their online video is set up with the linkage on all surfaces on the outer-most hole of the control horn and the servo and with low rates set at 40% for rudder, aileron and elevators. The elevators didn't seem to have much movement so I made the D/R 45% for them.

First flight was yesterday and it wanted to roll left pretty strong so I added 80% right trim to keep it level and quite a bit of up trim and it was flying nicely. Landing, I cut the throttle to about 40% and it started a good predictable decent and I kept slowly reduced power and pulled the nose up as it got closer to the ground. It flared into a nice "mains first", nose high landing. The roll problem was the rudder not returning to center after steering for take-off. I took the push "wire" out and wiped it with silicone plus tightened up the quick connects on the rudder and servo since they seemed quite loose and sloppy. I removed most of the right trim before flying today and it took-off and flew nicely. The wind had picked up to about 10 knots before the battery was recharged and I found the plane wants to climb fairly strong into the wind. Also downwind landings are out of the question unless you have unlimited space. I too had some motor glitches. Wonder if Hobby Lobby would replace the ESC?

The low rates make for fairly slow rolls but until I have a few more flights, I appreciate the milder response. I have no problems with enough elevator throw for flying or landing. The plane will slow down really quite slow and show no tendency to drop a wing. Landings are pretty easy. Just line her up and start backing the throttle off till you flare at about a foot above the ground. Carry some power all the way because the light weight and that big duct will slow it down quickly.

Bottom line is you want mild controls at least until you get comfortable with the plane. It seems to like to fly fairly fast if you want it to be responsive and it's not a plane I would fly in any wind over 8-10 knots and then only if you have experience. Gray is a tough color for me to see, even in the clear, dark blue skies of Prescott. Another note of interest; our field is at 5200+ feet and I felt the plane's performance was very good and scale-like.

[mjbennett9]

got the new kit. I'm taking my time this go around. 1 hour build will be more like 10 this time. Going to redo with all new control horns, clevis', etc. Tempted to do new servos, but I think I'll just CA in for more strength and leave alone for now. I yanked out the electronics and will replace shortly.
Upon opening box/inspection, I did notice some fuse cracking near tail, nose wheel was wobbly and missing spacers, and that fan shroud was pretty worn from factory testing I'm guessing. Looks like one or more blades were/are hitting the shroud. I have not started up yet, but once I check blade balance later, I'll know if there's an issue or not. If out of balance, then most likely the fan would have caused serious problems out of the box. "AtTheMet" had loose screw issues which I have yet to check.
"Arf Guy", I too had rudder/nose steering issues. The problem is the 36" piece of tubing is too flexible. It will never be perfect. Ideally they could be on two servos for centering, but of course there's no way to do that, that I know of. However, my transmitter can be programmed for before/after take-off sequences via a switch(es). I may have one switch set to keep steering wheel centered, then upon take-off, flip the switch to center the rudder, and vice versa upon landing. It's a lot to remember, but no more than to remember to put the landing gear down if this was equipped with retracts.

My first build was lined up 90% with rudder/nose gear, but I could not get 100% because of flexible tubing. I'll try to replace with something better but I'm not sure it's possible. I opt for straight steering as take-off/landing is critical. I can always correct for rudder, etc. via the transmitter sticks.

I'm also going to apply a lot of EXPO on the rudder since I have to correct a lot on runway because of the rudder/gear issue. That way I can apply a lot of stick for little movement to keep it straight down the runway.

I'll post more pics later, but attached are some of my issues like too much movement in nose gear, worn out fan shroud, and cracked fuse, etc.

[AtTheMet]

"AtTheMet" had loose screw issues


:) I most definitely have a few screws loose :cool:

[mjbennett9]

I was at the hobby shop today and I could not believe what I saw... a hobby lobby F16 canopy on the counter. I said to the customer, "is that a hobby lobby F16"? He said yup. LOL. He needed parts to yank all the cheap clevis', etc. too. Just what I was there doing.

I also grabbed (2) 18" servo extender cables (a little heavier duty, but not much heavier), so I can get rid of Y, use servo sub-trim to adjust elevons, and use aileron differential should the need arise. Unfortunately, I'll have to leave the Y in place for the elvator. But that's ok. I also bought a 6" Y so I can add another server, should I continue to have a problem syncing up the steering nose gear with the rudder. The 3' cable from nose to tail is too flexible and does not hold a setting. I'll use standard micro servo and dubro servo ez links to hold the cable in place.

I also picked up 2/56 linkages, clevis', etc. A little thicker than I wanted (2mm would be better, but typical hobby shop didn't carry matching clevis' to their own rods). :-) I also bought new landing gear wheels all around. The foam ones get a soft spot very quickly sitting out on the field. At home, I rack it off of its wheels, but they quickly flatten on the ground. The are the lightweight wheels, but still a little heavier than stock. That's ok. The stock one for nose was missing parts anyway. I also got some matching paint for nicks as they happen. I'll post results of paint colors from LHS, once I know they match. I also got replacement control horns from dubro. They are about 1/8" taller, but I'll just clip them shorter. I don't need the extra hole for more throw as it's already got about an 1" throw.
I also picked up a prop balancer because I have a feeling it's way off balance based upon wear of inner shroud...out of the box.

[mjbennett9]

Pete,

Just so I don't damage the fan, where do you hold onto while unscrewing the big bolt of the fan unit?

Thanks,
Michael

[mjbennett9]

Did anyone else notice that manufacturer installed ferrite noise suppressor on power leads from ESC, versus the usual ch3 throttle connection? Odd. See my pic from previous post.

[AtTheMet]

Michael,

Just reach in with your fingers and hold the fan while removing the outer screw and the adapter nut. Safer than running a screwdriver or something in there which may bend a fan blade.

And yeah, I noticed the ferrite ring. They know they have some interference issues.

2.4 Ghz the only way to fly.

[ARF Guy]

Oh, if you get any bings and bongs in the foam, the light-weight 'pink' spackling paste can be smoothed into a dent and then painted with acrylic poster paint from any craft store. I bought a bottle of white and black and mix them to the color of gray I want. It dries flat and looks like what's already on the plane.

[fh64_lucky]

Dang,It almost seems like this jet was made in two different places.The fit and function on mine was great.The only real problem was my fan was unbalanced,and shows alot of wear right out of the fuse.I purchased the upgrade setup so I was not that concerned about that.I posted some videos in the foam jet threads,it flies great.They did miss the CG location by about 25mm,but It would fly were they state it to be,its just real nose heavy.As far as a flimsy nose cone....whats the problem there?I have been hand throwing mine,no landing gear,and not so much as a scratch in 12 flights on it so far.I would suggest not to land it on its nose anyways... ;) I doubt this is called a begginner jet,so I hope new people to jets do not try and make this there first one.I do not beleive I even looked at instructions,except to check the CG...and I did not really need that info anyways....lol
Its a really nice flier,and everybody and myself loved the way it flew and looks on low passes right off the deck.Not a bad job at all on this jet HL! Joe :)

[Philld]

Okay, so now I feel better knowing that it's not only me having the power/glitch issue. Too bad I wrecked a hot looking F5 CAMO version before finding this thread :mad: With my 2nd F16 (1st was received crushed beyond recognition) and promptly replaced by HL. I won't attempt a maiden flight until I can rectify this glitching issue. I went as far as buying another recvr (spektrum 500 full range sport) with the same results. During 1/2 thru full throttle I get pwr glitching when I try any elevator/aileron movements. Tried swapping receivers (2 6100's and the 500) with the same results, yet they all work in my T28 Trojan just fine. So I guess I'll try the aluminum filtering 1st, then try swapping out the ESC. I just hate to add more money to this project but it has so much potential. Take note that this was also the same experience I had with the HL 70mm EDF F5 obviously they use the same hdwr. Anyway, thanks for the postings and I'll surely post my results.

[Philld]

...

[Philld]

Flew the Hobby-lobby F-16 today or should i say I tried to. On full throttle taxing the ESC Burned up on the ground Smoked poured from the plane.
Hey DB4.... I had the same experience with an F16, fried ESC during pwr up testing. What do you know the wires from the ESC to the motor each had enough of their brass connectors just staring me in the eyes all crimped to the same lenghts and within cm's of each other. Just the right situation for an arc to occur Surely we should not be seeing any of the brass fittings on any signal/pwr connections A bit of electrical tape or longer shrink wrapping would've easily prevented this. No doubt my F5 and F16 EDF experiences will never be forgotten.

[mjbennett9]

I tried the ESC in another plane with two hitec servos. Same glitching. Even at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle I saw bad things. While the throttle didn't cut out on its own until full throttle, it did cut out at low throttle with slightest servo movement. It's either the separate BEC, and/or the ESC. Not good. I even tried it on a 3cell thinking the chinese BEC could not handle current with a 4 cell. Same thing though.

[mjbennett9]

Note. The aluminum filtering I ordered, while it may work, is not as pliable as the website states. Very fragile and and not workable like aluminum foil. I would not recommend buying it. I'll stick to good receiver and replacing the cheap ESC.

[mjbennett9]

I've been reading the other post at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=895716&page=16 and it seems the CG is WAY off. I figured as much because my first flight took forever to rotate off the runway.

[Philld]

I've been reading the other post at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=895716&page=16 and it seems the CG is WAY off. I figured as much because my first flight took forever to rotate off the runway.

Well, well, well, after pondering this issue overnight (on the job) I got home this morning and covered all the wires in the duct vent area with foil and it did reduce the glitching (reduced not resolved). Prior to replacing the speed controller, I opted to try my old FM stuff (JR6102/Micro Recvr) vs the DX7 which works fine with my Heli's and other planes by the way. What do you know the glitching is gone!!!. I'll maiden it in a few with FM (didn't want to go backwards in time/technology). This I'll try temporarily until I come across a setup where I can just add this and my F5 to the list of models in my DX7 setup. I'm sure they've sold hundreds of these and I read about those that are working with spectrum??? I just don't wanna have to upgrade all of the electronics to do so. If that's the case I surely would have purchased a non ARF build it yourself kit.

[AtTheMet]

Philld,

Interesting that the FM works with the factory ESC. The ferrite ring should have been a giveaway. I never tried that since I use DX6i. After eliminating all other possibilities with the glitch, I just replaced the ESC and it now works great

After several flights, I noticed one of me elevator linkages was actually BENT (cheap and too small wire rod and clevis). Won't happen now :D

[Philld]

Philld,

Interesting that the FM works with the factory ESC. The ferrite ring should have been a giveaway. I never tried that since I use DX6i. After eliminating all other possibilities with the glitch, I just replaced the ESC and it now works great

After several flights, I noticed one of me elevator linkages was actually BENT (cheap and too small wire rod and clevis). Won't happen now :D

Yeah, I guess I'll take the plunge and replace the ESC....Which one did you get?

[AtTheMet]

Philld,

I had a new Electrifly ss-45 amp that I had tried in another plane. I swapped it out because it didn't have a programmable soft-start. It works great in the F-16 though.
My personal choice is Castle Creations. A little more $$$ but made in USA and definitely worth it to me.


fh64_lucky,

You said you got the hopped-up version. Did the Enerland battery fit in the cockpit compartment or did you have to rig it ? Also is it a big speed jump from the stock 70mm ?

Oh and thanks to ARF Guy for the tip on fixing the dings in the foam. Nice. :cool:

[fh64_lucky]

Please read thread in EDF foamy jets.
I belly land and hand launch.I posted pictures,video and as much info to help anyone else that I could think about....Joe :)

[AtTheMet]

Joe,

(Dumb question here) :eek:

On the other thread you said you found the CG at 95mm.

Is that measured from the leading wing edge closest to the fuselage ?

[fh64_lucky]

Yes sir.I am now at 98mm back from that spot,and I will leave mine there.
90-95mm back is good to go with most pilots

[mjbennett9]

I returned mine. I'll search for a kit without the electronics. I found a few companies out there and there are some new F16's coming on the market in two weeks. Approx. $170 to $250 for arf (retracts included), then add in your own electronics.

I can't justify $250 only to yank out ESC at a minimum, and motor/fan is suspect as well. That's approx. $100 in parts (according to their parts list). If I could buy plane without those items for $150, then it would be great deal and I'd have money to buy the upgrade. :-)

Michael

[mike2663]

I'm at 90mm from the leading edge and feel it needs another 5mm next time out. I've had no issues at all with any of the stock parts. I did balance the fan but that was it. As far as Hobby Lobby's customer service they have always been more than fair in all my dealing with them. You really can't fault them for cheap push rods and clevises that the norm in the ARF age. Mike

[fh64_lucky]

I had a brand new Thunder Power 22c 4500 lipo in mine....
69 amps 969 amps.....thats pretty good.
I just got a battery from Brian here on forums (punkindrublik )
Tenergy 4450 25c 4s lipo..results
69.9 amps
1040 watts!!!!!! Just a battery change,and its same size and weight of my other one.Little cheaper cost too...
Check out his batteries if you want a good deal on a great battery! Joe

[Hawaiian Flyin]

I just got mine put together. Have'nt tried to fly it yet. Have the same glitching problem at about half throttle and above. Guess I'll have to order a good ESC for this thing. See a lot of guys going with the CG at 90-95mm. Should I balance mine at that point for the first flights? Thanks for any tips guys! Aloha!

[fh64_lucky]

90mm to start.Go to Hobby City and buy the 80 amp plush ESC for 35 bucks!It has a built in BEC,and mine along with many others works great! :)

[Philld]

I just got mine put together. Have'nt tried to fly it yet. Have the same glitching problem at about half throttle and above. Guess I'll have to order a good ESC for this thing. See a lot of guys going with the CG at 90-95mm. Should I balance mine at that point for the first flights? Thanks for any tips guys! Aloha!

Yes, take my advice. Replace the speed controller!. After sacrificing a hot Camo version F5 and wrecking an F16, I finally replaced the speed controller and the glitching appears to have left when doing my ground checks. I'll maiden my "Frankenstein" version of the F16 this morning. I'm sure that HL now has enough reports of this issue. I'll submit my experience to them after this flight attempt. Hot looking and performing planes but who'd want to buy a brand new car when you have to replace the transmission in order to drive it.

[mjbennett9]

All, please do call hobby lobby to let them know. They told me that they have very little issues reported on these and think we are the minority. Also, HL stands behind their products for 90 days. Philld, call them and most likely you will get both models replaced!

[Hawaiian Flyin]

90mm to start.Go to Hobby City and buy the 80 amp plush ESC for 35 bucks!It has a built in BEC,and mine along with many others works great! :)
Thanks for the help. Checked the Hobby City site and the 80 amp esc goes for 55 bucks. Do I really need an 80 amp? See a few guys using a 45 amp esc and seems to work for them. I also had a H/L Swiss F5 that totaled on the second flight. Would'nt turn left or right. lost it over a hill. Found the wreckage, no survivors! Thought it was possible pilot error but now I may be thinking it may have had similar glitching problems.

[tshero]

Quick question.
Check GC with the plane upright or upside down. Going to start putting mine together this weekend with a new ESC and upgrades to linkages and stuff.

[Hawaiian Flyin]

I have a Kyosho F 16 that I fly and it flies great. I balanced it upright so I guess thats how I would balance this one.

[Philld]

Thanks for the help. Checked the Hobby City site and the 80 amp esc goes for 55 bucks. Do I really need an 80 amp? See a few guys using a 45 amp esc and seems to work for them. I also had a H/L Swiss F5 that totaled on the second flight. Would'nt turn left or right. lost it over a hill. Found the wreckage, no survivors! Thought it was possible pilot error but now I may be thinking it may have had similar glitching problems.

Yeah my F5 is just lying there and never had a chance to get higher that 5 ft off the ground. I might replace the body and transfer the electronics (minus the speed controller/glitcher) and giver her a chance at the skies. It's a really good value with the retracts and all. I also put the Electify SS 45 ESC in my F16 and have had 6 flights today! It has battle scars from trying to fly it prior to knowing about the ESC. I might follow up with HL on a replacement as this glitching issue is quite well know by now. I also saw the stock ESC at a LHS and the 60amp version was a whopping $27.00...

[CRELLITT0302]

I wish I would have found this thread prior to my maiden flight today. I got my HL f-16, built and took it to the local not-so-busy airport and met up with a few other local RCers. they liked it as much as I did.
Preflight checks looked and worked great. Engine vibrations were very very bad. Taxi out and line up were problem free. Pushed the thrust lever full forward and started heading down the runway, and nice smooth rotation. Flew it around the pattern once and brought it in for a landing. It was as nice as the landings I do at my job. Turned it around and lined up for a second go, and just as the nose was coming up, it went straight up without my consent/control. I rolled it over into a steep bank to kill some of the lift and get a level attitude, which only worked momentarily. Reduced the thrust so that it would not climb straight up, but rather just slow flight. I knew as soon as it left the ground that something was bad. managed to get it on a downwind and it just rolled over to about 90degrees and headed for the dirt. I had zero control or response at this point.
Needless to say, my plane is now trashed, the battery is okay, fan is okay, my ego is badly bruised and my wallet hasnt recovered either. Any ideas on if this is replacable by HL? I would like to try this aircraft again, but I am not sure how to go about it. And after reading this thread a day late and $256 short, I would be greatly appreciative of any info that may help me get a replacement.
Does this fall into the "returns" category or do they just send you a replacement? PLEASE HELP!!!

[Hawaiian Flyin]

I'm not going to fly this thing until I change the esc. Tower Hobbies has the electrifly 45amp for $59.99 plus shipping. Probably order one unless anybody knows of a better deal. Here's whats left of my F5 after it's second flight

[Philld]

I wish I would have found this thread prior to my maiden flight today. I got my HL f-16, built and took it to the local not-so-busy airport and met up with a few other local RCers. they liked it as much as I did.
Preflight checks looked and worked great. Engine vibrations were very very bad. Taxi out and line up were problem free. Pushed the thrust lever full forward and started heading down the runway, and nice smooth rotation. Flew it around the pattern once and brought it in for a landing. It was as nice as the landings I do at my job. Turned it around and lined up for a second go, and just as the nose was coming up, it went straight up without my consent/control. I rolled it over into a steep bank to kill some of the lift and get a level attitude, which only worked momentarily. Reduced the thrust so that it would not climb straight up, but rather just slow flight. I knew as soon as it left the ground that something was bad. managed to get it on a downwind and it just rolled over to about 90degrees and headed for the dirt. I had zero control or response at this point.
Needless to say, my plane is now trashed, the battery is okay, fan is okay, my ego is badly bruised and my wallet hasnt recovered either. Any ideas on if this is replacable by HL? I would like to try this aircraft again, but I am not sure how to go about it. And after reading this thread a day late and $256 short, I would be greatly appreciative of any info that may help me get a replacement.
Does this fall into the "returns" category or do they just send you a replacement? PLEASE HELP!!!

Wow this story sounds toooo familiar. It appears that they are out of stock on the F16's until November! I'd surely give them a call anyhow and maybe get a raincheck on a replacement or choose something similar (dont think they have many 70mm though.) No doubt this ESC is a known issue at this point.

[tshero]

I have a Kyosho F 16 that I fly and it flies great. I balanced it upright so I guess thats how I would balance this one.

Okay, one more question on CG. Want to make sure I get it right.
Seeing as it's tough to figure where the fuse ends and the wing start should I measure at the seam?

[Flyboone]

Hey guys,
I wanted to chime in here and let you know that we're listening. We did not experience any problems on our test models before we made our first order. I have both an F4 and F16 now from the production run. The F4 works great. The F16 has an occasional momentary loss of motor power when flying. It does not lose power to the servos and it only happens for a fraction of second. We took some video of this to send to the factory. I don't think it is a problem common to all the planes. I've seen too many of them work great to say that the power system is wrong. At the E-Jets event last weekend, we raffled off an F4 and the guy who won it, put it together within an hour and was flying! There were many of the 70mm fan sized planes flying at that show that did not have a single ESC issue. It could be bad batch of ESC's or BEC's that are causing these issues. Rest assured, that we will figure out what's going on and get it fixed. Thanks for all your support and feedback. Keep it coming.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[Hawaiian Flyin]

Well I decided that since I had the esc from my crashed F5 I would swap it out with the one that came with the F16 to see if it would make any difference. Fired it up and did some ground checks at full throttle and guess what? No glithches at all! So I'm sure that the esc that came with the F16 is the problem. I did have to extend the battery wire and add a extension to the receiver since the ones from the F5 esc were about 4 inches shorter. Still not sure if I want to try flying the F16 since both planes came from the same manufacturer. Although the F5 esc had a differnt color heat shrink so it may be from a different manufacturer. Keep everybody posted if I get brave enough to chance it

[ARF Guy]

I've grounded my plane. The glitch occurs when any of the functions using 2 servos is used. Rudder/steering does not cause the glitch, just elevator or aileron. My motor glitches violently like it's trying to reverse. Running it wide open WITHOUT moving any controls is smooth and powerful. Hobby Lobby has assured me they are working on the problem. It's smart business to take care of their customers. They will make it right, guys!

[Hawaiian Flyin]

I tried a few more tests today with the esc from the F5. Walked approximately 150 feet away and applied full throttle with the plane secured. Operated all control surfaces simultaneously and never had any glitches. Will probably try it's maiden flight next week hopefully. Definitely the stock esc is a problem.

[PlaneNuttz]

Heres something to ponder gentlemen,

try wrapping the battery wire leads and motor leads in a few layers of aluminum foil. this will provide sheilding and more then likely eliminate the glitching. Or go 2.4 ghz. As the esc heats so do the wires which could cause interference. shielding will help. have used this method for years from a edf parkjet designer long before 2.4 was around. :cool:

[fh64_lucky]

To mask a problem is not the best thing to do.I run all my ESCs in my EDFs and planes and never have glitch issues and I still run on good ole 72 mhz.
There just may be a bad batch of these ESCs.It happens,HL will have there hands full for a lil while getting this all sorted out.

[CRELLITT0302]

I am certain this airplane could have been a blast, but my experience with the glitching/defect was from lift off to dirt bite. I really hope they make it right. I am also curious what the normal procedure is for getting replacement/refund/different A/C? I was told early Sat that I should leave an email and they will get back to me. Is this sufficient to get the ball rolling?
I am also a little concerned about whether they will charge me to return ship...or ship a new one?
And last but not least, since they will not be getting anymore of the f-16's til Nov., I am wanting to just get a refund, as I am thinking about the exceed f-18. Any ideas or experiences in these areas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

[Philld]

Heres something to ponder gentlemen,

try wrapping the battery wire leads and motor leads in a few layers of aluminum foil. this will provide sheilding and more then likely eliminate the glitching. Or go 2.4 ghz. As the esc heats so do the wires which could cause interference. shielding will help. have used this method for years from a edf parkjet designer long before 2.4 was around. :cool:

PN, I've had enough foil on this thing to start a barbaque. It reduced the glitching by approximately 25%. I replaced the ESC and the issue has been resolved. Unfortunately the she looks like frankenstein with all of the epoxy over the damage from my initial flight attempt.

[tshero]

I can not believe all the problems that we are having with this jet. Then again, seems there are always quality issues with hobby items made overseas. Before getting into RC planes I gave digital slot cars a shot. Paid big $$ for the track, and then a ton more for all the add ons and such. Same problems there though, cars that would not run, cars and items arriving broken from the factory and so on. Customer support was excellent, but let's face it, you spend your hard earned money and want something to reflect that. Still though the companies here in the US selling these items make out because it's cheaper to buy 4 to get one good one then to have it made elsewhere.
Anyways, I have my jet just about finished up. Had to do a ton of work modding things as mentioned here in the threads plus other problems I encountered with my specific kit. Jet arrived with the back of the fuselage snapped so had to fix that, and of course the rubbing vibrating fan unit. With that all set my other problem was with the rudder. Gave up on that one and it is now locked in place so for now no rudder. Should be OK, unless anyone can say otherwise. Also coated the front of the nose cone with the new style white gorrilla glue, fast dry. Worked great and now it has some density to it. Just waiting for my ESC and UBEC to arrive and can get this thing buttoned up.
Putting a bunch of time into this one, hope it is not all for a lost cause.
Could anyone who has flown throw out the numbers you are using for D/R, expo and throws?? Would be appreciated greatly. :)

[AtTheMet]

I'd like to hear from you guys to know if your CG is measured using the wing tanks or not. I decided to get cute and installed them Friday night. On the first flight Saturday morning with the newly installed tanks, the thing came off the deck and then proceeded to go almost straight up. A quick full elevator forward got me back on track, as I was already at full throttle. Once up to full speed, she flew OK, but as soon as I backed off the throttle, the nose wanted to drift up. Needless to say, once I had landed, the wing tanks were introduced to Mr. Xacto. :eek: They were apparently adding lift and drag.

I use 2.4 gHz, with LOW/HI throws set at

Elev = 55/100 max thro 115 expo +50%
Ailrn = 40/85 max thro 100 expo +50%

[ARF Guy]

I've only flown mine at the stock CG WITH the tanks. I had problems with climbing with a 10-15 knot wind. When still it flew great with a noticable nose drop when reducing the throttle to 1/2. I also use a 2.4 radio so the glitch is being narrowed to the ESC.

And for gosh sakes, if you have a problem, contact HL. They don't want you to have a bad experience with their products. They will make it right.

[AtTheMet]

:confused: I'd say I've had quite a few problems. I expected some issues with a brand new model, but not anything as extensive as what I've had to deal with.
When I bought my Parkzone T-28, it went together in 30 minutes, flew fantastic right out of the box with absolutely no problems, and I still consider it my favorite plane. When I go fly it is the first plane loaded up. Guess I just got a little spoiled by having something actually perform like advertised.

[Bat21]

With that all set my other problem was with the rudder. Gave up on that one and it is now locked in place so for now no rudder. Should be OK, unless anyone can say otherwise.

I have found that without rudder, you will not have good yaw control during the take-off run because once you get past normal taxiing speed, the nose wheel gets so light that it is pretty much useless for directional control. In other words, the jet will want to weathervane into the wind which could be a problem in a crosswind take-off situation and especially if the aircraft encounters a sudden side gust of wind during the take-off roll. Once you are airborne, directional control is good using ailerons. A few days ago my HL F/A-18 Red Viper (which comes with no rudder), was hit by a sudden side gust and headed toward a hedgerow of bushes and I had to yank it up real quick. It cleared the top of the bushes by inches.

[tshero]

Bat-I will be hand launching this jet but thank you for the information.

[AtTheMet]

If for any reason your ailerons fail :eek: you would be wishing you had a rudder to steer with. :D

[tshero]

Excellent point, never thought of that.

[AtTheMet]

just mentioned the rudder cause I saved a prop plane once due to an aileron servo shorting out in flight.

I've seen some replacement pushrods at my local shop that are just a little beefier than the stock wire one in the F16. When I get the energy I'll swap it out.

I just ordered a MegaMotor 16/15/2 today. Going to replace the stock outrunner. This should give it a little more oomph. :)

[Flyboone]

Hey guys,
We've been doing some more testing. The ESC's are not the problem, it's the BEC unit attached to the ESC. We are working with the factory to come up with a solution. We were able to pull the red wire from the ESC connector that plugs into the receiver to disable the stock BEC. You would then have to supply receiver voltage via an external battery or an alternate BEC. I know that's not the best solution, but it works and will keep you flying safely. More to come.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[AtTheMet]

Flyboone,

Your post makes perfect sense. I suspected as much when I first had the glitch problem and removed the bottom of the fuselage to expose the ESC. My first question was "what the heck is this in the receiver connector". First thought a ferrite magnet, then I saw the REAL ferrite mag on the power wires. After closer inspection it did look like an external BEC. When I hooked up the 4S battery, the BEC got super hot after about 10-15 seconds. That's when I yanked the whole thing. Factory ESC/BEC = C-H-E-A-P. I'm also replacing the motor. After tinkering and trying to eliminate the low RPM vibration, I found it's the motor itself causing it.

[Philld]

Hey guys,
We've been doing some more testing. The ESC's are not the problem, it's the BEC unit attached to the ESC. We are working with the factory to come up with a solution. We were able to pull the red wire from the ESC connector that plugs into the receiver to disable the stock BEC. You would then have to supply receiver voltage via an external battery or an alternate BEC. I know that's not the best solution, but it works and will keep you flying safely. More to come.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Thanks for the status report Jason. As I've already purchased a replacement ESC w/BEC the plane is flying as best as it can under the circumstances (it looks like Frankenstein) with all of the epoxy seams and a few bits of foam missing from the 2 wrecks I've encountered prior to knowing about the ESC/BEC issue. So have you guys arrived at a conclusion as to what we should do for a replacement?

[vq35721]

My wife was told last week by Russell that he will be sending out a new DF system? Can the status on that please? She also emailed yesterday for status and never heard back from him. Please please advise :-)

[mjbennett9]

What would be GREAT, is if they sold the complete fuselage kit "without" the electronics, just like Hobbypeople does with the Phase 3 EF-16. I would have loved to have kept the hobbylobby F16, but could not justify $260 only to yank the electronics. The hobbypeople kit (complete too) minus electronics is only $60!!! I think HL would sell a ton of fuses without electronics, if they got them in stock.

[tshero]

I am looking to add a pilot to my cockpit and was wondering what scale you think this jet is closest to?????

[Flyboone]

My wife was told last week by Russell that he will be sending out a new DF system? Can the status on that please? She also emailed yesterday for status and never heard back from him. Please please advise :-)


VQ, Send me a PM with your account details and I'll check on the DF system for you.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[vq35721]

VQ, Send me a PM with your account details and I'll check on the DF system for you.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Jason,
Thank you so much for taking care of my issue :-) I just got the shipping confirmation :-) Do you mind shipping it via USPS Priority? I will get it quicker than UPS Ground :-) Sorry if I'm asking too much, I really really really can't wait to get her flying again ;) Reggie

[fh64_lucky]

Jason is a real stand up guy.I sent him a PM about my tailcone melting from sunlight,3 days later I have a package from HL.Nice new tailcone,awsum service! BTW.....
Do not leave your jets in direct sunlight! :p

[davefl84]

Yea, i just bought 3 of these f-16, two have flown already. Ones, mine, my brothers and a freind that flys with us. I am using a dx7 and i have got the throttle issue, and so did the other one thats put together except he is on 72 mhz and it wasn't as bad as the dx7.

So i tried the other speed controller off the plane that isn't built yet and same thing. Whats weird is you won't get the pulsing throttle when you hold the plane in your hands, its only when your taking off. Well one plane is pretty much done for, the nose gear is ripped off, wing broke, and messed the ducting up, cowling/ nose cone messed up.

Despite all that, i glued everything back together except the nose wheel, pulled the red wire out the speed controller, bought a castle creations BEC and wired it up to bypass the original one and it works like its suppose to.

Now the thing that gets me is i got a messed up plane from buying a PNP from faulty parts. At least one is saved because it hasn't been built, the other only had one flight and a rough landing due to the BEC not being able to hold the throttle and everything on that one is alright, minor cosmetic damage. So one plane is screwed, better than all three huh?



CHECK THE BEC OR BUY A NEW ONE BEFORE YOU FLY AGAIN.

Preflights for this matter didn't help me or my freind, everything was perfectly normal untill takeoff roll.

Also the tech guy i believe robert has been a good help, so far. I gotta make a few calls on monday but hopefully they can get this straightened out.

[twesselman]

Hey guys,
We've been doing some more testing. The ESC's are not the problem, it's the BEC unit attached to the ESC. We are working with the factory to come up with a solution. We were able to pull the red wire from the ESC connector that plugs into the receiver to disable the stock BEC. You would then have to supply receiver voltage via an external battery or an alternate BEC. I know that's not the best solution, but it works and will keep you flying safely. More to come.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Hey Jason,
Any news on the BEC/ESC issue for the F-16?
I noticed that availability has slipped out to November now. Can I assume that the issue has been addressed and that the new planes coming into inventory should be remedied for this issue?

Thanks,
Tim

[Flyboone]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[twesselman]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Thanks for the update and good news, Jason.

I'll have my order submitted soon then...

Thank you

[Philld]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Outstanding! thanks for the update.

[davefl84]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

I went to go fly today and im getting no signal from the speed controller anymore it will not connect. I gotta mess with it when i get home. It worked for a few days with pulling the red wire out and linking in an CC BEC, but now it wont connect to the speed controller. I get power to the servos but no throttle.

[mjbennett9]

Buy.... http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ezonegeneral.htm?c1=ezone&source=bar&kw=gen

[twesselman]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

Jason,
Is there an official position on the vibration issues with the stock motor and DF system on the F-16? Seem to be some unhappy people on the forum...

Would much appreciate your perspectives!

Thank you!

[vq35721]

Some news. China was off all last week for a holiday so it is taking some time. The next shipment coming in will not have an issue. We are still working to come up with the best solution for the current planes that have the problems.

Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby


Jason,
Thanks for taking care of the Motor/DF system. Unfortunately, It didnt fix my vibrating problem. The rear end of the plane vibrates like it's gonna fall apart. What are the chances of me getting a replacement plane? Or maybe a refund? I just ordered your JS/Wemo combo earlier today. I'm hoping this will solve my problem. If not, please tell me what can be done to satisfy a customer?

TIA
Reggie