Aero-works Sukhoi 31 kit build

[appleflyer]

i am going to start a build thread for my Aero-works su-31 kit!

first a little info on the plane: 101" wingspan, 22-24lbs manufacturers weight, 32% scale (i think) made for a 80-110cc engine (i will be using electric :cool: ) the motor i will be using is a HXT from hobby city
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139&Product_Name=HXT_80-100-A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55 (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139&Product_Name=HXT_80-100-A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_%28eq:_70-55))

im not sure about the ESC yet. i will use 3 JR 8711s for the ailerons/ rudder and 2 HS-7955s on the elevator, going to use my DX7 with a AR9100 rec :D i will be getting everything from Troy built models. i only have the motor as of now and i will be getting everything else later in the build. so far i like this kit, its built vary light! but its to bad that aero-works stopped making it :( oh well, i geuss not vary many people thees days like to build. but anyway i will have pics in a few minuets :)

[appleflyer]

ok, here are some pics! oh yes and the batterys will be A123s wired in 2 6s3p packs. ask me if you have any questions :)

[appleflyer]

anyway i will have more pics sometime this week.

[youth must fly]

how big of a prop do u plan on using for the HXT outrunner

[appleflyer]

i had a change of plans, i will be using the 130kv version of that motor with 14s2p a123s and a mejzlik 26x15E prop for better performance.

[R/C_Addict]

Wow, looks great so far. Keep the pics coming.

-Tucker

[jab]

Did some tests with the HXT80-100 180kv motor and measured 6800rpm using APC-E 24x12 and 12S lipo. No equipment to measure current and static thrust, but the pull was.. impressive.. :) Test was done using the Turnigy 100HV ESC. Did not melt the ESC, but it had problems starting the engine at times, so I ordered a Jeti 200 to be on the safe side. Will be used in a AW Yak54 33%.

[appleflyer]

jab, is that a turnigy outrunner in your pic? if so could you post a link? the name shows it being a 80-100 but i cant find it on hobby citys site.

[appleflyer]

theres some more pics in my blog if you want to check them out. but i will have more here soon :)

[appleflyer]

ok guys here is some more pics

[appleflyer]

and some more!

[appleflyer]

well the 2ent stab half is ready for cutting, soon i am going to cut out the elevators and rudder.

[blucor basher]

Looking good. Do you have a covering scheme planned?

[appleflyer]

im thinking of trying to copy this one but make the red parts green (its the 2ent one down NOT the red white and blue)
http://extremeflightrc.com/html/ChinnYak55SP.html

or if thats to hard i might go with something else. i know i want it to have green in it so it will look different.

[jab]

jab, is that a turnigy outrunner in your pic? if so could you post a link? the name shows it being a 80-100 but i cant find it on hobby citys site.

Same motor as the one you posted a link for, just newer batch with the new Turnigy label.

[appleflyer]

ok, that had me confused there. i will probably have more pics and a update on the build by the middle of next week.

[Dennis C]

Good to see some one actually building an airplane!!

Good luck and keep us posted with the bild

Dennis

[appleflyer]

Good to see some one actually building an airplane!!

Good luck and keep us posted with the bild

Dennis

thanks, when i bought the kit i didn't know if i would like building but i like it allot.

it might be a while longer then i said before for more pics because my dad want out of town on a trip for i few days so i have no one to help me with the build. but i will have more sometime.

[appleflyer]

what kind of connectors is everybody using in there giant scales?

[blucor basher]

Deans here, but don't expect them to last forever.

[KatManDEW]

I'm using 6mm bullets. United Hobbies has them cheap.

[appleflyer]

im thinking of using traxxas high current connectors:
http://www.traxxas.com/products/accessories/trx_accessories_connector.htm
what do you think?

[appleflyer]

and i will probable use this wire:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSGV3&P=WR
is 12ga wire enough for 100amps full throttle current?

[jab]

Deans here, but don't expect them to last forever.

I tried deans in my 4-5KW setup but the connectors got to hot for my liking. Switched to 6mm gold connectors and they stay cool.

[blucor basher]

Yep, that sounds right...we use the Deans just for consistency over the entire fleet, since the batts get used in smaller stuff.

[jab]

Ahh.. I just soldered some 6mm plugs directly to a deans connector for a quick and easy 6mm to deans converter.

[appleflyer]

like i said before i think i am going to use traxxas connectors, i use them on my cars and they work really well, and can do the same if not more current then deans.

[Jeffery]

Ahh.. I just soldered some 6mm plugs directly to a deans connector for a quick and easy 6mm to deans converter.

That's what I did, too. All my chargers are set up for Deans, but I run 6mm bullets on my 12S (2 X 6S) stuff, so I just made up 4 adapters that'll work on my chargers or if somebody needs to borrow a 6S pack or 2.

[jab]

like i said before i think i am going to use traxxas connectors, i use them on my cars and they work really well, and can do the same if not more current then deans.

I am sure they will work fine. But to me is seem a 6mm gold connector has a bigger connection surface then the traxxas connectors. 6mm's are also alot cheaper. $10 for a bag of 10 connectors (male & female) at HobbyCity.

Edit: 6mm gold connectors also make it easier to serial connect battery packs with just one extra connection (positive from battery 1 goes directly into negative on battery 2 with a single gold connector).

[jab]

Btw. I finally got my Jeti 200A ESC and the Jeti Box today. So I will be testing what the Turnigy 80-100 180KV brushless is good for. I have a selection of props 22" to 27" APC-E's and a 26" Mejzlik CF electroc. I'll post my currents and rpm's when they are in.

Edit: Hmm.. I'm having problems getting reasonable current readings from my new Jeti Box and 200A ESC. 17,5A peak just seem a bit low to me.. :) But voltage and rpm measurements seem ok. 6500rpm with a 24x12APC-E and 5700rpm on the 26x15E. All using 12S 5000mah battery packs. (appleflyer: Sorry for all this OT in your thread, just say a word and I'll shut up and move my junk to a new thread.. :))

[appleflyer]

jab, cool i would like to hear more about your setup, when you get the proper current ratings i would like to hear what they are. (i dont mind you in my thread, its fine)

[appleflyer]

I am sure they will work fine. But to me is seem a 6mm gold connector has a bigger connection surface then the traxxas connectors. 6mm's are also alot cheaper. $10 for a bag of 10 connectors (male & female) at HobbyCity.

i will think about it.

Edit: 6mm gold connectors also make it easier to serial connect battery packs with just one extra connection (positive from battery 1 goes directly into negative on battery 2 with a single gold connector).

could you post a pic of wiring 2 packs together like you said there? i dont quite understand what you are saying.

[Jeffery]

i will think about it.



could you post a pic of wiring 2 packs together like you said there? i dont quite understand what you are saying.

Take a look at this pic. The red lead of the pack on the right goes into the black lead of the pack on the left, then just plug the other 2 leads into the ESC. It's really simple if you only have 2 packs, it gets more complicated if you start running more packs.

[appleflyer]

your right that is simple, i might do that!

[appleflyer]

i was going to post more pics but i cant find a USB cable so i will have to wait tell tonight.

[appleflyer]

ok, here are some more pics of the plane. do you think i need to use 2 servos per aileron or will 1 be fine? i am going to use all HS-7955 servos.

[appleflyer]

does anybody want me to continue with this thread? ill need at lest 5 people to say yes for me to continue posting about the build.

[Jeffery]

Continue to post if you want to, don't get discouraged if you don't get a flood of responses to every post. I have no experience with how many 7955 servos the ailerons on this plane need, a lot has to do with the construction of the aileron. A sheeted foam aileron might get by with a single servo, where a built up aileron the same size might need 2 to distribute the loads.

[appleflyer]

i just want to know if people are interested in this build.
it is a sheeted foam wing so i think i will just use 1 per aileron. i read that an electric giant scale does not need as many servos as a gas giant scale does, why is that?

[blucor basher]

I'm enjoying the thread, I hope you document the whole thing.

Jeff is right about the servos...lots of these GS planes were designed back when servos were weaker, so they expected 2 so the ailerons are noodles. Driving them from a single point requires a stiff aileron. If you elect to use one aileron servo, stiffen the aileron in torsion (Carbon? Hardwood?) and drive it from the center of the aileron.

Also, as for electric not needing as many servos...I'd be cautious about applying that universally.

[appleflyer]

I'm enjoying the thread, I hope you document the whole thing.

Jeff is right about the servos...lots of these GS planes were designed back when servos were weaker, so they expected 2 so the ailerons are noodles. Driving them from a single point requires a stiff aileron. If you elect to use one aileron servo, stiffen the aileron in torsion (Carbon? Hardwood?) and drive it from the center of the aileron.

Also, as for electric not needing as many servos...I'd be cautious about applying that universally.

ok, one thing i didn't say is aero-works made the for only 1 servo per aileron. i was wondering about electrics not needing as many servos, it doesn't make sense that electrics would need less servos in less it has something to do with electrics having less vibration?

[Jeffery]

If AeroWorks has it set up for one, and since you are running a top of the line servo, then I'd just go with that.

[appleflyer]

thats what i was thinking.

[blucor basher]

Aeroworks had it setup for one? Just curious, then why was it ever a question?

[appleflyer]

a guy at my flying field said that i have to use 2 other wise i will get flutter, so i wanted to see what you guys think.

[blucor basher]

Aeroworks has a good rep, they know what they're doing, if there's a serious question about something important like that I'd definitely email them and ask.

[mexico]

Jeffery- what is that loop of wire? Anti spark?

[Jeffery]

Jeffery- what is that loop of wire? Anti spark?

Yeah, just a resistor soldered to the back of the bullet and the loop end is doubled back and doesn't connect to anything (there's a piece of heat shrink over the bullet to keep the wire from touching, then a second piece over the resistor). That's on the + lead of the ESC, just touch the + male bullet to the loop for a couple of seconds to charge the caps and plug it in. I still go full spark about half the time to make sure the caps are still barking.

[appleflyer]

would this wire be a good choice?

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6277&Product_Name=Silicon_Wire_10AWG_Super_Soft__(1mtr) _%3Cb%3ERED%3C/b%3E

[Jeffery]

Yeah, that wire will do the job, those pics of my wiring is 10GA wire.

[bsipro]

hey appleflyer
you are doing a great job. it is nice to see a plane built from a kit. I would do one my self but I do not have the time when I start a project it gets 100% until done so family and work will suffer, I have been using Deans in my 33% with a Hacker A100 and things are holding up just fine. like anything you will need to keep a eye on them.

[grimgrinnin]

does anybody want me to continue with this thread? ill need at lest 5 people to say yes for me to continue posting about the build.

Please do!

[appleflyer]

im going to continue this thread!

[appleflyer]

sorry im taking so long, i haven't been building much lately. i am not in much of a hurry as i will not have the money for a long time to buy everything.

[Jeffery]

No need to be sorry, just carry on as best you can. We'll still be here when you make some more progress :)

[appleflyer]

is 4600mah A123 pack is enough for a 6+ minute flight?

[Jeffery]

If you average 46A draw during the flight and run the battery all the way dead.

[minitelemaster]

I've found in my aerobatic planes that if the peak amp draw is 20c (so 96amps for you) I get 6-10minutes depending on how aggressive I fly. However, on these types of planes I'm usually at around 1/2 throttle or less.

[appleflyer]

that sounds about right. my peak draw is going to be in between 90 and 105amps.

[appleflyer]

i did the maiden flight on my e-flite pitts model 12 today! i flys well, i like the plane a lot.

[minitelemaster]

Allright, so the pitts flies well...what about THE BEAST?

[appleflyer]

so far so good.

[appleflyer]

here's a few more of the rudder. i just cut it out now i have to cap it. one odd thing with this kit is the plans show the you only single bevel the elevator and ailerons but you double bevel the rudder. so i bought more wood so i can double bevel everything.

[minitelemaster]

looking nice:)

[appleflyer]

been working on the rudder a bit, should have pics up soon.

[appleflyer]

what do you think of these control horns for the giant?

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/category/HACL/Clevises-and-Horns.html

the 8-32 Swivel Clevis Horns second product down.

[flyrobert]

nice,
I think they will work how many rudder servo's ?

[appleflyer]

just 1 HS-7955.

[appleflyer]

what are the best electric props to use?

[appleflyer]

here is the pics of the rudder.

[Geoff Dryer]

comparing the APC to the Xoar:

Hyperion Z5045-B18 motor
Turnigy Sentilon 100 Amp ESC
2 Hyperion LVX 6S-5000 batteries (12S)

APC 24x12 propeller
26 lb 2 oz thrust
86.5 Amps
3712 Watts

Xoar 24x10 propeller
27 lb 10 ox thrust
71.5 Amps
3134 Watts

[MarkF]

Geoff, do you have a 24 x 12 Xoar that you can compare to the apc.
Thanks

Mark

[Geoff Dryer]

I have not seen a Xoar 24x12 listed. I know that they don't have one in the electric line of propellers.

[appleflyer]

here is a few more

[MarkF]

Geoff, they do I have one. I think I got mine from 3d hobby shop. On my setup it only pulls 72 amps so I went right for the apc 25 x 12.5 instead. Which pulls 72 amps as well. I am now running a Vess 26B that I like to refer to as the stump puller. This one pulls 90 amps. You guys should really check out the Vess props if you can find one close to the size you want. By the way Appleflyer nice build. I am enjoying the pictures and comments.

Mark

[Geoff Dryer]

MarkF - I was told by the dealer that Xoar did not make a 24x12. After visiting the Xoar web site I see that they do not make it in the electric line but they do in other lines. I wonder what the difference is between their gas and electric propellers?

[MarkF]

Talk too the guys at 3D hobby shop. My 24 X 12 looks very close to the apc electric prop. I didn't know it wasn't part of the electric line.

Mark

[appleflyer]

any ideas for a color scheme?

[appleflyer]

no one has any ideas? hmmmm

[RiBell]

any ideas for a color scheme?
I've found colour schemes on airliners.net when looking for a colour scheme for an RV-4 they have a sister site that I stumbled onto with 1,000's of colour schemes I'll see if I can find it again.
Rick

[RiBell]

I wasn't able to get to the secondary site. However here's a bunch of pic's from airliners.net just use the photo search for Sukhoi. You'll get some of the jets Sukhoi jets mixed in going page by page you'll start to find pic's of the same airplane from different angles.
Anyway here's a couple.
Rick

[minitelemaster]

I'd go with the red bull air race scheme, I've always loved it. It'd look good even on a sukhoi:)

[appleflyer]

i like the yellow and silver and black one. (the one that says adventia on the side)

[appleflyer]

comparing the APC to the Xoar:

Hyperion Z5045-B18 motor
Turnigy Sentilon 100 Amp ESC
2 Hyperion LVX 6S-5000 batteries (12S)

APC 24x12 propeller
26 lb 2 oz thrust
86.5 Amps
3712 Watts

Xoar 24x10 propeller
27 lb 10 ox thrust
71.5 Amps
3134 Watts

wow! big difference there!

[appleflyer]

here's my latest on the rudder

[appleflyer]

well i should be getting the battery soon so i can start testing the motor!

[minitelemaster]

sweet, that's the best part! post results!

[appleflyer]

i will but it will be a while still.

[appleflyer]

im about to cut out the elevator..

[appleflyer]

well that got delayed a bit.

[appleflyer]

could someone please post a few pics of there test stands? im looking for ideas on what kind to build.

[Geoff Dryer]

I recently built this test stand to test my big Hobby City motor. Components are 1/2 inch plywood, 2x2 (arm) and 2x4, plastic container to hold the counter-weights. The pivot is a Lazy Susan turntable. I fasten it to my WorkMate portable bench. . I use a 50 lb fish scale to measure thrust.

[appleflyer]

does it work well?

[Geoff Dryer]

My test stand works just fine. The Lazy Susan turntable is on ball bearings so the friction is very low. It handled the 40 lbs of thrust without flying apart. I have also tested my Hyperion 5045 with the stand. I did tie the bench to my house so it would not fly away.

[PORKCHOP]

Hello Geoff !! Nice maiden there. Wish I was there to see it. Just one question about the thrust bench. How do you calculate out the leverage from the wood arm or are you just using it for reference between one set up and another?
Or, does the equal length of wood from center bearing pivot to motor and scale cancel out the leverage advantage? Just curious, as I have never done this before and am looking for a very true value.
Would be interesting to just tie your plane down using the fish scale to a wall and compare the thrust numbers between the bench and straight on from a wall.

[appleflyer]

Geoff, what size batterys are you using with your sukhoi?

[Geoff Dryer]

PorkChop - I wish that my maiden flight was a little longer! The centerline of the motor is the same distance from the pivot as the scale so the thrust measurement should be reasonably accurate. Certainly very little is lost to friction. I wanted to build a stand so that measuring the thrust and the amp draw was convenient and could be done before installing on a plane. Swapping out components is also much easier.

AppleFlyer - I maidened my Sukhoi using the 4 Zippy 6S-4000 batteries. These are only 580g each http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7638&Product_Name=ZIPPY_4000mAh_6S1P_20C_

[appleflyer]

cool. the batt i ordered is a 4600mah 14s 2p A123. in 2 7s 2p cell blocks.

[dpoles]

do you have a link for the kit?

looking good

[appleflyer]

the kit has been discontinued. sorry.