Dragonus 500 - Technical information and suggestions..

[Ecaf]

So more and more information is slowing coming out about the eagerly awaited D500. Lets discuss it here and let RCer know what we want to see in this bird.

I for one am excited about it. Of all the helis that I have had, I feel the most "connected" to my D450.

Im hoping I can say the same about the D500...

Anyway, here are some pics:

[Kawasaki297]

Thanks for the pics. I am eagerly awaiting this helicopter. I have wanted the Dragonus 450 for some time but I don't fly the 325's anymore. There is always room in the stable for another 425mm machine.

[cfrank2005]

Sensational. Any idea on release date (month)?

[kgfly]

What is the item on the lower right of the 3rd picture ?

[gravydrive]

What is the item on the lower right of the 3rd picture ?

Inner swashplate piece, sans bearing.

[kgfly]

That's what I thought at first but it is a different shape to the one in the swashplate. Maybe one is a newer prototype and one older ?

[Ecaf]

That's what I thought at first but it is a different shape to the one in the swashplate. Maybe one is a newer prototype and one older ?

Based on the size of the center balls, I think the upper left is a 450 and the lower right is a 500.

Could be wrong tho. Perhaps they decided to make the shaft bigger :)

[gravydrive]

That's what I thought at first but it is a different shape to the one in the swashplate. Maybe one is a newer prototype and one older ?


Good point. Had thought since the previous shots were comparing 450 pieces next to 500 pieces that the case was the same. Interesting that the two pieces look comparable in size, but the shaft diameter looks quite different.

[Butuz]

For a company that over the last 2 years has not even managed to update its website from "coming soon" or "under construction" - I sincereley doubt we will actually see a Dragonus 500 in the next year or so (if ever!)

Butuz

[Ecaf]

Well, I dont know about that...

More parts arrived today :)

[kgfly]

Looks like the design is not going to use a closed flybar cage but the harder-to-setup open design like the original 450 head. I hope I am wrong though.

[cfrank2005]

Looks like the design is not going to use a closed flybar cage but the harder-to-setup open design like the original 450 head. I hope I am wrong though.
Yeah..I agree..looks like a scaled up Dragonus II 450 head.

[Ecaf]

Looks like the design is not going to use a closed flybar cage but the harder-to-setup open design like the original 450 head. I hope I am wrong though.

It was planned to be a closed cage at one time. This pic was from one of the original threads. I havent heard anything about changes being made.

[Ecaf]

Confirmation that it's a closed cage, and it looks like the new swash has an integrated anti-rotation bracket.

[ozace]

Shweet, i just wish we could get one.

[Ecaf]

Yep, same here. Hopefully soon....

[Taffage]

Thanks Ecaf, keep the updates coming :)

[Technex]

Any more pics mate?

It's a contest between this, and the Trex 500/600. I would love the 450 to be scaled up but with all it's little problems fixed and then improved greatly, with the added stability and light feeling of a big heli.

[Ecaf]

Nothing new lately guys. Soon as I get anything, I will post it here.

[Haheli]

I put Dragonus 500 rotorhead on H425 to test first.

:D

[Zephyrion]

Hi there :cool:

This is such a good starting thread for me to start posting something in RC Groups. If you are interesting in the D500, I will try to give the information I have. I might have something all of you are looking for...

Pleased to meet all of you guys here...! ;)

[Zephyrion]

Here you are...!

The closer look of what I did...

The origianl helicopter is the Hurricane 425. I put the D500 rotor head in there with a little bit modification to make it fit.... :D

[Zephyrion]

Here is the list of the equipments used...
- Original motor from the kit rated 1100KV/1500W
- 60A ESC with 3A BEC from FlightTech (The original ESC is 55A no BEC)
- FlightPower 2500mah 3S1P x2 serial to get 6S, 22.2V, output
- Futaba S9452 x3 for ECCPM
- LogicTech 6100T gyro (My fevorite :D)
- LogicTech 6100G tail control servo

[Technex]

Looks like a nice beefy strong head, how's it fly? :D.

[renerc]

How did you get a d500 head?

[Haheli]

Only some distributor get them for testing first.
All the Team Dragonus member will got the prototype next month.
So exciting. :D

[Zephyrion]

So sorry, I got it first.. hahaha
Anyway, the first prototype comes with the great responsibility :)

[Zephyrion]

This is the picture of how I setup the rotor head at center stick. Not bad for the alian rotor head installed in others heli, isn't it? :D

[Zephyrion]

The first flight with this rotor head was done at the backyard of my house. Not a big space. Just be able to hovering :p Anyway, it was prove that even the rotor head look very tiny but strong enough to hold 425mm. blades

I set the pitch to -10 to +10 degrees and 8.5 degrees of cyclic both roll and pitch axis. The feel of the first hovering is amazing. The heli was stable yet fast in response. It was easy to control and predictable.

[Technex]

Nice Zephyrion, same as the 450 then :).

I only wish there were hex screws instead... Oh well, perhaps it will change on the final production head like I thought. RCer screw quality is very good anyway, so it wouldn't be that bad if they were Phillips.

[Zephyrion]

Hi Technex,

I forward this information to the factory too. I, myself, also prefer the hex over the phillips and I think that the factory will change them when production :)

I did fly the D450 too. If you compare the D500 head to D450, I could tell you that the D500 is way more stable than the 450...

[Zephyrion]

A couple flights at my house had nothing more. Just feel the same. The motor has plenty of power but very hot.

Few days after, I had a chance to go to my flying club. :D This would unlock all the secret of the rotor head.

This motor could spin the blades to 2500 rpm when hovering. I set the pitch curve and throttle curve to hold the rpm around 2300-2500. This might because the total weight of this heli is too heavy, the heli didn't climb out as to my fevorite both up right and reverse. I decided to try more pitch then and the rotor head still has some reserve to go.

I pushed the rotor head harder on pitch. I got -14 to +14 but still have some more spare to go. This time, the heli had a lot of power to travel through the sky. The climb rate was outstanding...!!!

[renerc]

WOW! great news.

[Butuz]

Good to see this is moving at last - still moving VERY VERY slowly though. RCer missed the boat with the Dragonus 450 and I am worried they are going to make the same mistake with the 500... infact I think they have made that mistake already.

The other mistake I am worried about is not quickly getting good distribution particularly in the UK. I order my 450 parts from Australia which is bonkers really.

Butuz

[Technex]

Good to see this is moving at last - still moving VERY VERY slowly though. RCer missed the boat with the Dragonus 450 and I am worried they are going to make the same mistake with the 500... infact I think they have made that mistake already.

The other mistake I am worried about is not quickly getting good distribution particularly in the UK. I order my 450 parts from Australia which is bonkers really.

Butuz

We just need to show more people that it's one of the best 450's around. People love 'em just they struggle to get parts. Trust me I'm trying my best to get more parts in the UK.

[Butuz]

Problem is mate - people aint gonna come without the parts. Parts first, then people follow. RCer have had PLENTY of time so sort this basic rule out but have not bothered..

I am not happy with them as a company to be honest I really thing they need to grow up and wake up.

Butuz

[Haheli]

Hi Butuz,

I can feel what you are worry about.
As I am RCer owner's friend.
I know what he is worry about too.

Now Ikarus has Europe distribution.
Wish they can solve your question.

What is the way you usually purchase the parts?
?

Maybe we should let this thread focus on D500 discussion.
Discuss the rest on Dragons owner thread.
:P

[osterizer]

Past experience with the Dragonus (II) is probably very interesting to people who want to decide if they should buy a D500. My D2 is down right now for a set of dampers (which seem in the U.S. to only be replaceable by getting o-rings from the auto parts store). I keep flying mine just because it's such a great little heli- exact and 100% predictable, and it just seems like it wants to play :). But without a more certain parts supply I'd find it hard to buy a bigger one.

[Butuz]

Hi Butuz,

I can feel what you are worry about.
As I am RCer owner's friend.
I know what he is worry about too.

Now Ikarus has Europe distribution.
Wish they can solve your question.

What is the way you usually purchase the parts?
?

Maybe we should let this thread focus on D500 discussion.
Discuss the rest on Dragons owner thread.
:P

To be honest with you I am not out to have a go at your friend - I love my Dragonus 450 - I'm a long time RCer customer, I've bought mine when they first came out when RC-TEK USA were the distributor.

If the Dragonus 500 is simply a bigger version of the 450 then it will be a very good heli already. I see you've improved the flybar cage on the D500 this is good. If you also use cap head bolts instead of cross thread screws, and make sure that all of the nuts are bonded/welded to the frame parts to make assembly far easier and less fiddly - you should be on to a winner!

[Haheli]

Hey Butuz,

I believe they will do that.

[Technex]

I'm contacting RCer about the parts support in the UK. Please P.M me if you wish to suggest a store.

I've already done most the popular stores but feel free to message me in case I missed some out.

[UfcGuy39]

Past experience with the Dragonus (II) is probably very interesting to people who want to decide if they should buy a D500. My D2 is down right now for a set of dampers (which seem in the U.S. to only be replaceable by getting o-rings from the auto parts store). I keep flying mine just because it's such a great little heli- exact and 100% predictable, and it just seems like it wants to play :). But without a more certain parts supply I'd find it hard to buy a bigger one.


Back in the posts for Dragonus owners thread, suggestions were made for the Trueblood dapeners. Having the O rings on my NVII, I went with the Truebloods on the Elite, which I bought from Helidirect here in the USA. They work great.

[Ecaf]

So we are getting some more good information for this upcoming bird. ANYONE that has information about it PLEASE post it here! :)

I cant wait. I just wish it was here now.

Oh, and lets let RCer know what we want. A lot of 425mm blade helis are on the market, what do you and and dont you like about them?

My wants -

- Close flybar cage
- Programmable head
- Lightweight
- 3mm flybar

[Technex]

Stable and predictable while having the crisp 3D response like the 450
Interaction free head design
Hex hardware
Good design with no wasted space
Good quality CNC all around
Very precise CNC/Molds
Lotsa carbon
Thick(ish) tailboom like the 450
Static protection built in (not sure on this one)
Efficient
Thrust bearings
Tail weight mod pre-installed (perhaps adjustable)
COG being setup for heavier new-gen lipos.
Good electronic placement for 2.4 RX's etc.
Long sweeping tucked-in canopy design for aerodynamic flight in all directions
All while being lightweight at the same time :)


Sure it will be :D. My dream heli :cool:

[Ecaf]

You forgot the anti-gravity/anti-crash systems :)

[Technex]

You forgot the anti-gravity/anti-crash systems :)

Let me just edit that in, how could I forget? :D


This would be the perfect solution, but very expensive (manufacturing) so I don't expect all that :D. Just laying it out there :D.

[Roto Rob]

I trust they will make it fly good.
--So I would want good solid servo mounts. Made for the servo's I already have, Futaba 9650's, or Hitec HS-5245MG.
--And common sized blade grips.

[osterizer]

It's going to be a 425, then? It would be a shame to propagate the Align "500" nomenclature.

If it's a 425, then the 9650s would be useful, but if it's really a 500 it would be standard servos, so the 9452 would be more appropriate. It would be nice to have a heli with the Dragonus feel in a 500mm helicopter.

[Zephyrion]

So we are getting some more good information for this upcoming bird. ANYONE that has information about it PLEASE post it here! :)

I cant wait. I just wish it was here now.

Oh, and lets let RCer know what we want. A lot of 425mm blade helis are on the market, what do you and and dont you like about them?

My wants -

- Close flybar cage
- Programmable head
- Lightweight
- 3mm flybar

Hello Ecaf... You got what you want. The flybar cage is closed as my picture shown. The head is programable. Lightweight is the main objective of the RCer D500, and the flybar size is 3mm. :D The D500 is actually hold 425mm. blades like the Trex500.

[Zephyrion]

Hello all, Please understand that this has no mean for the original helicopter. Just to see how the D500 rotor head perform. So please apologized.

This is another heli I tried to installed the rotor head on. How do you feel?? :p

[Ecaf]

Hello Ecaf... You got what you want.
The D500 is actually hold 425mm. blades like the Trex500.

That is true, but the grips are 9mm instead of 10mm like the T500.

I would prefer 10mm grips allowing a greater choice of blades to be used.

Even the Protos (currently 9mm grips) are going to be coming out with a 10mm sized soon.

[Technex]

Wow, stylish, lovely! :D.

Is it just me or does the main hub/grips look really beefy (:D) or is it just the camera angle? Looks like a good idea anyway.

Perhaps small swashplate? :D.

Edit:

Radix don't do 425 blades yet (flight testing) :(. But I would like to use them without spacers.

Edit#2:

Readyheli have the 430mm Radix blades in! 10mm root, so yeah, I would like a 10mm blade grip too.

[Zephyrion]

Yes... right now the main blade grips only be able to hold 9mm. root blades therefore the choice is limited. I cannot run this rotor head with the Align's blades. Anyway, I feed this info to the factory already...

Any further information, please don't hesitate to help... We need it. Please help feeding info to the factory... :D

[Ecaf]

Yes... right now the main blade grips only be able to hold 9mm. root blades therefore the choice is limited. I cannot run this rotor head with the Align's blades. Anyway, I feed this info to the factory already...

Any further information, please don't hesitate to help... We need it. Please help feeding info to the factory... :D

Please do. I mentioned this to the RCer folks, but was told it would be a design change to update it.

[Zephyrion]

hahaha Ecaf, I did. We have a chance to have it. Anyway, the original blades from RCer is not bad actually. The original is carbon with good CG and balance. :)

[Ecaf]

Im not concerned about RCer blades, I know they are great. SAB makes 9mm root blades also.

Im just concerned if I do have a crash, I gotta purchase/wait for new blades. Even a simple tipover (mainshaft, spindle, blades damaged) could be a week or more of downtime.

Now, what do I need to do to get that head shipped to me for testing? :)

Im sure I can "crash it real good", and find its weak points. :D

[Taffage]

Im not concerned about RCer blades, I know they are great. SAB makes 9mm root blades also.

Im just concerned if I do have a crash, I gotta purchase/wait for new blades. Even a simple tipover (mainshaft, spindle, blades damaged) could be a week or more of downtime.

Now, what do I need to do to get that head shipped to me for testing? :)

Im sure I can "crash it real good", and find its weak points. :D

The 10mm root would be far better, got SAB's on my DII pro at mo, but they are not as good as Radix performance wise. (when she goes in next, this will be rectified :D , should not be long - just started learning inverted circurts :eek: )

[Butuz]

Is the D500 gonna be light enough to use 2 x 3S1P2250 batts in Series???

I hope so!

Butuz

[Zephyrion]

Good news guys... I think our effort is effective. The factory agree to try to revise the grips to hold 10mm. root :D

And Butuz, I think that it is not a problem to find this bird with your existing batteries for 450 like 2 x 3S1P2250. The down size would only be the flight time. Even now, I fly the test unit with 2 x 3S1P2500... :P

[Zephyrion]

Im sure I can "crash it real good", and find its weak points. :D

;) I am thinking about it as well Ecaf, the crash test. Good idea :p

[Ecaf]

Good news guys... I think our effort is effective. The factory agree to try to revise the grips to hold 10mm. root :D



Thats great to hear. Thanks!

[Technex]

Good news guys... I think our effort is effective. The factory agree to try to revise the grips to hold 10mm. root :D


Ah thank you! I forgot to mention it to Asoka.

Can always shim down I suppose if you wish to use blades with smaller roots.

I can't wait!!! :cool:

[Ecaf]

----

[Technex]

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, carbon and CNC. :D

Thanks!

They're still going with the frame mounted tail servo then? Bah, that should be for nitros only! :p

[gold]

d500 weight :D

[Technex]

Tail design.

[Butuz]

Oo pics :D

is it me or do the carbon frames look a tad thin?

Butuz

[Zephyrion]

Oh my god.... a lot more information than I can imagine... :)

Good work, Viva Dragonus Team

[Zephyrion]

hehehe....

I forgot, the main grip has been revised already :D

The 10mm. root is not a problem anymore.... Cheer

[Technex]

Good good! Not sure Butuz, time will tell :). RCer will be testing frames etc so no need to worry.

[Zephyrion]

Don't worry Butuz, the thickness of the frame is 1.5mm. This is tough enough. The other bigger nitro heli is just 0.1mm. thicker. :)

[Taffage]

Are the skids in the weight pic the ones it will be using?

I really like the DII ones, only ever had one set go :D and she did go in major hard that time!

Tail looks to be major improvement :)

[Haheli]

As I know that landing skid is only for testing.
Prototype.

Of course D500 skid will similar shape like D450.
:rolleyes:

[Technex]

http://sto.org.tw/home/

Look at that frame, looks similar!

I was just looking at the link on my Dragonus carbon skids, bit of research and I found that.

[Butuz]

Thats an aftermarket Carbon frame for MSH Protos.

Talking of protos - i've just dicovered this heli and it looks really good! 200grams lighter then Trex 500!!!

Hmm hmm hmm

Butuz

[Ecaf]

http://sto.org.tw/home/

Look at that frame, looks similar!

I was just looking at the link on my Dragonus carbon skids, bit of research and I found that.


From what I understand, it was designed by the same guy that did the D500.

[Technex]

From what I understand, it was designed by the same guy that did the D500.


Nice, everyone is giving rave reviews about the protos one, lighter than the stock one if I remember!!

Wow, good news indeed! :cool:

[gold]

Yes, landing gear is only for testing. And tail shaft is just a sample so do not worry :)

[Zephyrion]

Oh.. it is nearly come true... :)

[Technex]

Nice!!! Getting better by the second!


What's with the end of the tailcase? Also does anyone know if the tail case will be keyed, like on the Dragonus (so it's always straight).

[Zephyrion]

There'll be more info to come soon... :)

[Ecaf]

Sure are similar...

[GootyS]

Ha ha funny you say that Ecaf...i was saying to my buddy that the way the servos are mounted for cyclic is the same as the Protos....hmmmm..since Protos came out first is it safe to say that Rcer are influenced by their design?

[Technex]

No, same designers from what I've heard. It's funny, that frame makes me want to buy the protos, I must be addicted to CF or something...

Look up a few posts :rolleyes: :)

Real shame about the frame tail servo though.

[HighFreq]

Same designers?????? I don't think so..............

We have had that frame layout since the very first pics on the net (more than a year ago), they just didn't go as far as the one belt design, the rest is carbon copy :)


Corrado

[Ecaf]

No, same designers from what I've heard. It's funny, that frame makes me want to buy the protos, I must be addicted to CF or something...

Look up a few posts :rolleyes: :)

Real shame about the frame tail servo though.


Corrado is right when he said his frame is his own design. The aftermarket C/F frame was supposedly done by the same designer that did the D500 frame.

[Technex]

Oh, aftermarket, didn't realise.

[Zephyrion]

Hi all, after a while of testing the rotor head and sending feedback to the factory. I think it is the time to share the experience as well as asking for the recommedation from you guy. I did talk to Asoka and he agreed that the feed back from real customers could make the product much closer to perfect.

The flying video will come soon... not so excitiing but showing how the rotor head could perform.

[Haheli]

Here comes the first test video

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=2poDNsT3K_4

[Butuz]

This heli is still 6 months away yes?

Butuz

[Zephyrion]

Who know how to post the video to the thread, advice please.

[Happy|Harry]

here you go :)

D500 Cyclic Test-01_mpeg4.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2poDNsT3K_4) (1 min 15 sec) (1 min 15 sec)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu1EXe7m3UM

phil

[Technex]

Very nice, thanks for the videos!

Bump up the headspeed and lets see some fast tic-tocs :).

Butuz, shouldn't be long!

[Zephyrion]

Thanks Phil... :)

[Zephyrion]

Technex, now the head speed is around 2400. As this rotor head is programable, you can see the different between those two desprite the head speed is same. The total weight of the H425 as well delay the response. This heli is on the heavy side.

[Butuz]

Guys what KV motor you running? I have a spare Scorpion HK-3026-1210 here that I could use but it's a bit fast for a Protos and a bit slow for a Trex 500 on 6s....

Butuz

[Zephyrion]

Hi Butuz,

For this video, I used the Hurricane 425 as the base. Only the rotor head is the Dragonus 500. Therefore, the motor is Gaui 1100KV.

[Butuz]

Ah ok so a 1210kv would be good for this Draggy??

Butuz

[Zephyrion]

Yes Butuz... The 1210kv would make it rock... :)

[Butuz]

:D Thanks Zeph.

Butuz