autonomous or mostly ROV?

[billh117]

I was talking to a Pilot friend the other day about UAV and he asked me a question I could not answer and thought I might bring it up here and see if somebody in the biz could answer, maybe somebody like RCAV8R13.

He asked me what I thought the percentage of UAV flights currently happening in the two active combat areas we are involved with are actually completely autonomous, or what portion of the mission is autonomous as opposed to the aircraft being just an ROV?

What is the purpose of the autonomous portion ? to avoid operator fatigue? carry out an actual mission, or fly around until the plane finds something of interest then an operator deals with it?

He seems to think that the autonomy is designed to deal with the low level drudge part of a mission (Flying the plane) so an operator can be free to look for and deal with bad guys, provide surveillance for ground missions etc.

Any comments on this ?

[zlite]

A lot of the military UAVs have a "fly the camera" mode, where you basically point the camera at what you want to see and the plane figures out how to fly to maintain that view. I'd call that autonomous flight, even though it is manually controlled.

[small_rcer]

Good question.

Depending on the aircraft the answer is quite different. The largest the Global Hawk is completely autonomous from engine start to touchdown. It cannot be controlled from the ground. The flights take up to 90 days to plan. Thus they are more of a strategic role device. A cheap spy satellite with more controllability and flexibility. They are not really intended for the "we need it now can we get it in 40 minutes type role" They are large with 30+ hour endurance. Never seen a report of being armed. Usually fly above 50,000 feet where Air Traffic Control has little interest in them.

Predator and their derivatives are continuously ground controlled. Flown full time from one or two locations in the US. Even the UK ones flown in Iraq are flown by UK pilots from the US bases. They are usually launched and retrieved by pilots at the base of launch or return. However once at altitude and connected via satellite to the US based bases they are handed over to the control of the continental US based pilot. They are surprisingly large with the most recent being powered by 900+ shaft horse power turbo prop engines. The many hobby models around make people think they are quite small. The top of the head of a normal adult is below the prop shaft line while on the ground.

As you move down the size line the smallest are usually autonomous with a preset flight path and return to launch or designated landing site.

In between there are hybrids which are very similar to our hobby UAVs in that they are usually a mix of manual control for take off, autonomous flight and manual landing.

When you try to compare the hours by type it is almost impossible, as the smaller in theater types may or may not be logged.

There is a real management problem in theater in that the time for authorization for launch of some of the smallest can take up to 3 hours. By that time the urgency of a local fire fight has passed or larger resources such as attack helicopters have already been brought in. Some field commanders have put their assigned UAVs away due to this delay.

Much of this is in public reports that can be found in at auvsi.org or links from AUVSI to those reports.

HTH

Jim H

[billh117]

Wow thanks guys.

I will print this out for him.

[FrankC]

Jim, that is some good info and matches up with what I have read over the years. The part that is most frustrating to me is the part about the usage of the small hand-launched models the army has. You are right about the delays and the almost non use of them now. That frustrates me because my son is in Afghanistan and could use the info these things provide. He has also requested a reclassification to the MOS that operates them but this has been denied because they just aren't flying them. Reminds me of my time in the army.

[pthompson24]

A lot of the military UAVs have a "fly the camera" mode, where you basically point the camera at what you want to see and the plane figures out how to fly to maintain that view. I'd call that autonomous flight, even though it is manually controlled.


That is awesome. I want one. Dean are you listening? You said the camera package would be the next add on to Attopilot. Can you work in this capability please?

Paul T.

[FrankC]

Paul, I think the Procerus site has demos of selecting a ground reference and having the aircraft orbit and keep it in view. They also show 'convoy following' where they orbit a rolling convoy, and also show the aircraft orbiting a convoy that stops while it is being followed. Some impressive abilities if you need them. The current abilities of AttoPilot though are all that I am after so I am watching that thread.

[Jack Crossfire]

There are a lot more active combat areas than 2.

[reedchristiansen]

I think quite a bit of the flying is done in "altitude hold" mode - where the autopilot takes care of airspeed and altitude, the user commands roll angles using a joystick while flying through the camera.

Reed

I was talking to a Pilot friend the other day about UAV and he asked me a question I could not answer and thought I might bring it up here and see if somebody in the biz could answer, maybe somebody like RCAV8R13.

He asked me what I thought the percentage of UAV flights currently happening in the two active combat areas we are involved with are actually completely autonomous, or what portion of the mission is autonomous as opposed to the aircraft being just an ROV?

What is the purpose of the autonomous portion ? to avoid operator fatigue? carry out an actual mission, or fly around until the plane finds something of interest then an operator deals with it?

He seems to think that the autonomy is designed to deal with the low level drudge part of a mission (Flying the plane) so an operator can be free to look for and deal with bad guys, provide surveillance for ground missions etc.

Any comments on this ?

[pthompson24]

Paul, I think the Procerus site has demos of selecting a ground reference and having the aircraft orbit and keep it in view. They also show 'convoy following' where they orbit a rolling convoy, and also show the aircraft orbiting a convoy that stops while it is being followed. Some impressive abilities if you need them. The current abilities of AttoPilot though are all that I am after so I am watching that thread.
Thanks Frank.

I looked at their site and it's impressive stuff indeed. If I win the Lottery I'll consider them. For now I think Attopilot is my best bet too for entry into the UAV realm.

Paul T.