Varible Pitch, Pics, Pros & Cons

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hey guys, need some pics and advice on your Precision 3D VPP systems. Not sure what bird Im putting one in yet, but have been wanting to do this for some time.
Hopefully you guys from ETOC will chime in JG, ML, you know the abbreviations. :D
This is just a general post so any comment is welcome.

I have order several types and am going to experiment with weight and plane choice.
I know there are other sources on VPP systems but want to share with others in the F3p thread.

I was thinking of doing a Razorback or Xcaliber or Keima(if ever available) .....HMMMMM help me out guys. What planes have you tried.....

here are some choices VPP...
AXI 2204-54 with EVP
IKARUS PPS-4D with S2 Motor
Mamo Models Upsidedown system w/motor?

any experience pros and cons would be great..


Thanx
John

[Dimitry999]

Maybe you could try Morback 4D...
The it's plans are in the F3P plans topic.

Best luck
Dimitry

[xtremeRCpilot]

That is one nice looking plane, that is definitely an option !!! Isnt there a 4d plan as well? I am going to look now. Thanks :)

John

[richard boyd]

Hi John look here for your 4D Nippel plane http://www.schnurzz.de/index.php?cPath=123_22&osCsid=24b22299195effd767152aa7759569ea

Richard

expressfly.co.uk

[xtremeRCpilot]

Nice one Richard, I like the fact it has an Epp front end to take abuse. is this available to USA. Was this plane used with the Upsidedown system by Mamo models. Just thought Ive seen this bird in action. One more for the till.... :D


Thanks
John

[richard boyd]

Hi John , this is MimoYak by mamo model http://www.mamo-modelltechnik.com/cgi-bin/shop/frontde/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=76539284475482615&rub1=Modelle&rub2=Indoor%203%2DD%2CMamo&artnr=2989&pn=0&sort=0&all= , I am sure this may be the plane that is designed for your equipement ! Jurgen or Martin may be a better help on this one . It looks very like a Martin Muller design and i am sure there are a few videos on You tube if you do a search .

Richard

[MAMOARMIN]

Hi Richard,
well the design is completely done by me...the plan as pdf is available by personal email....

i have also posted a video..just type mimoyak in the search field "suchen" clikc on mimoyak..
kr
armin

[richard boyd]

Hi Armin , Thanks for putting me right . The Yak looks and flys very very well ! If your into RPP then this package is a most .

Richard

[MAMOARMIN]

Hi richard,
well, the mimoyak was designed because i wanted to have a trainer, mvpp, without beeing ugly..so i had to make a rather big plane...on the video the weight is 235 gramm, but with 1 m wingspan it is a slow flyer..
i am now working on a new yak for the next aeromusical season, i do have spare time now, after beeing really busy..i hope to make it to carvin with new plane and new routine..
take care
armin
www.mamo-models.com

[John Glezellis]

Hey guys, need some pics and advice on your Precision 3D VPP systems. Not sure what bird Im putting one in yet, but have been wanting to do this for some time.
Hopefully you guys from ETOC will chime in JG, ML, you know the abbreviations. :D
This is just a general post so any comment is welcome.

I have order several types and am going to experiment with weight and plane choice.
I know there are other sources on VPP systems but want to share with others in the F3p thread.

I was thinking of doing a Razorback or Xcaliber or Keima(if ever available) .....HMMMMM help me out guys. What planes have you tried.....

here are some choices VPP...
AXI 2204-54 with EVP
IKARUS PPS-4D with S2 Motor
Mamo Models Upsidedown system w/motor?

any experience pros and cons would be great..


Thanx
John

Hi John,

The best system I have used has been the Mamo system (distributed by Horizon Hobby). On my ETOC model, I used the Hacker A20 34S and pushed it on 3 cells for my airplane. I also have experiemented with the Mamo motor with this system and it worked quite well. All information is on their website.

Best Regards,
JPG

[xtremeRCpilot]

Thanks John G,
I just ordered one and am looking forward to trying the VPP stuff out, I was very impressed with your skills at ETOC and have since been pondering doing one. I have the IKARUS setup but it may be a bit heavier and I want to keep my weight down. :D

Thanks again,
John Carver

[Azarr]

Does anyone have a step by step programming guide for setting up VPP. For those of us heli challanged (me) saying "set up a pitch and throttle curve" really doesn't have a lot of meaning. FWIW, I'd like to set it up on a JR 9303.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[3Don]

Armin nice to see you back, hope you can make it to Carvin, i suspect all German team will be there? Also Dutch Wall halla sounds like must visit event;
http://www.f3jscore.com/f3p/wallhalla/bulletin/bulletin%201%20Walhalla_nl.pdf

About VPP my favorite motor/prop are;

Midle mounted prop,
DW6/18 and Carbon prop from Slowflyworld.de
(Most powerfull VPP system, but quite loud and love allot of amps;)

Regular scheme with front mounted prop;
DW6/18 ore DW 8/18 and upsidedown prop by Mamo.
(Upside down prop is very well designed strong VPP prop option for beginers.)

http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/reviews/motor-dw6/21-ag..html

Hope this help.

[choza]

thanks a lot for the info, btw Donatas you have a pm :)

[Fences]

Mamo-vpp for sure! For the Arizona contest, in a big area, a 3s setup works good. Martin Mueller has it licked with the 2s setup in smaller spaces. 3s has the power and cg range to really do long periods of nose down hovering. 2s does a really controlled range of flat flips and underflips, way more controlled.
9in blades for both!
I only use the last 4 clicks for reverse. 3s Setup
Set a curve like this for ST2 Idle up

/ ----------------------------------100% pos








----/ 100% neg



Throttle curve 95% down to 50% in the beta, or 0 pitch range, and 100% in full negative.

.................................................. .................................................. .
Normal Curve

--------------------------------- 100% travel

Normal throttle Curve 0% to 100%

You have to load the the servo and let it grab in negative to get good consistency which means it is totally dependent on temperature and pressure.
Always messing with ATV Maximums. difference of up to 15% outside versus indoors on a gym floor.

Almost to the point of over reving the hub at 0 pitch.

VPP Setups will always change dramatically with temperature, even 3 Degrees will have a need for a change in ATV Endpoints. Very Important!!!

I realize that this is not the conventional way to setup a VPP Unit, but the best for me in consistency. Easily expect 250 flights to learn, and crash still 1 in 12 flights of hard VPP Flying.

Good Luck,
ML

[Fences]

O ya........Dont be so quick to grab the throttle hold lever......You will be amazed what you can squeek your way out of low to the ground. There is a sweet spot. Once you find it...you will know what I am talking about.

[xtremeRCpilot]

Sound great ML..... I am still waiting the arrival of my Upsidedown Prop and cant wait to experiment with the settings.

What plane are you using, I cant decide on doing a mono or bipe plane. I have seen both in action but cant tell which one would be more stable on the down lines. Any suggestions would be helpful!!

Thanks
John

[hpapilot]

One of Gernot's airfoiled Yak 55's. Good luck finding that one...

[xtremeRCpilot]

I'll have to give him a call later..... NOT.... I wish I had that connection.

Gernot if you watching hook us up!!!!

John C.

[garrcass]

any coments on the himax VPP ?? i want to get one i have a axi and himax ? but what vpp to get ??

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hi John,

The best system I have used has been the Mamo system (distributed by Horizon Hobby). On my ETOC model, I used the Hacker A20 34S and pushed it on 3 cells for my airplane. I also have experiemented with the Mamo motor with this system and it worked quite well. All information is on their website.

Best Regards,
JPG

Hi John,
I was in the process of installing the Mamo system in an Enticement with a hacker and found the aluminum hub adapter was for a 3.17 motor shaft not the 3mm that comes with this motor. I had an Axi 2204-54 that works but I am not sure I will like the performance.
Did you run a 10amp Phoenix on yours with the 3 cell. Mine keeps cutting out at full throttle. I may have to up to an 18amp after I put this on my watt meter but really need to keep the weight down as Im pushing 6oz.

Thanks in advance,
John C.

[xtremeRCpilot]

Alright Guys, after a couple of sleepless nights I finally got it set up. I decided to start with the Mamo Upsidedown system with and AXI 2204-54. It was a breeze to assemble and mount on my Enticement. I had some issues setting it up because it was more complex than the standard setting arrangement via the manual. Never doing a vpp system it was very misleading because it states to set it up a specific way, but after doing some research found there is more parameters to add to the equation via motor kv ,cell count, and so on.


Next is to get her up in the air. I will have to put this on my watt meter but with a CC 10 and 3 cell lipo I set it up by ear and got it to stop cutting off premature because of over amping. It has plenty of pull and push but the real test will come when its up in the air. I will keep you posted so please do the same with your experiences so we can all benefit from pros and cons of each system.

I am going to try the Ikarus pps system next!!!! :D


John

[MikeBiv]

Do you have a photo?

I thought the Motor had to be mounted in reverse for the
Mamo Unit.

[MICKEL]

:confused: Just a quick question to those who know:

AXi 2208/34 hollow shaft- Is it good for anything? I have one sitting here, and would love to try vpp. However, it looks like I better get a charger foamy- not a 5 oz model.... :(

1.21 gigawatts! Do you know what is required to generate that type of power?

Maybe a bolt of lightening. ;)

[xtremeRCpilot]

:confused: Just a quick question to those who know:

AXi 2208/34 hollow shaft- Is it good for anything? I have one sitting here, and would love to try vpp. However, it looks like I better get a charger foamy- not a 5 oz model.... :(

I have this system laying around as well and it is a good one. Like you said better for a 10+oz plane . I will be using this one soon and post some pics..
I would definitely use it ,if you have one around the shop!! :D


MikeBiv..... The axi has the motor shaft protruding from the back which works great with the aluminum hub that comes with the Mamo system, its also a 3.17mm diameter which I found when trying to mount it with a 3mm and had some play(no good) I will get some pics soon!!

John

[Stular]

:confused: Just a quick question to those who know:

AXi 2208/34 hollow shaft- Is it good for anything? I have one sitting here, and would love to try vpp. However, it looks like I better get a charger foamy- not a 5 oz model....

I have AXI 2208/34 EVP on my 11oz Lepilko 4D. It is powered by Kokam 3s 740mAh 20C battery.
Some pictures (http://www2.arnes.si/~gstula/modelarstvo/modeli/lepilko4d/) and video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7913106035468505996&ei=d8GZSJvKDp_q2gKL8YQj&q=lepilko)

This setup is quite heavy. I have bought a mamo upsidedown system and now i'm watting for DW6/21-Ag (http://www.schnurzz.de/product_info.php?cPath=124_112&products_id=454&osCsid=191b15d9116cf320b903e1636a5c0390) motor. This will be a much lighter 2-cell setup.
If you are looking for a cheap mamo upsidedown look here (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6466&Product_Name=Variable_pitch_prop_&_motor_set_8%22_Type_C)

[MICKEL]

Thanks for the good news guys. :cool: That sounds (and looks) SO FUN!!!

Great flying Stular! I'm sure I would have demolished that plane in those 8 minutes. :p :)

I now need to find the "right" model to do this to....

[garrcass]

If you are looking for a cheap mamo upsidedown look here



IS that the generic equivalent ?? any ideas on am draw thrust for that thing ???

[3D-Seth]

xtreme, any updates?

[xtremeRCpilot]

xtreme, any updates?

Hey Seth.... I am finishing up a remodel project so I had no extra time to try this out, I am happy to say that its looking real good the thrust should be enough in negative pitch to fly backwards :D I hope to get video !!


John

[xtremeRCpilot]

Here is some pics of my pre flight set up, I put this on an ART plane( almost ready to trash) so if it doesnt work out no loss, ha ha ha.. Anyway hope this helps. I will post updates when I fly it.


John

[xtremeRCpilot]

Well I took her out tonight and WOW what a blast. After a few alterations, I finally got it to nose down hover, Awesome site. In spite my excitement when approaching an upline from my nose down hover my weak spots broke and hence one Destroyed Enticement.

My theroy held EPP all the way. I will be installing the system on a slofly 28 epp bird and this will not happen again. I think if I didnt have the repairs pending I might have gotten away with it but this depron stuff is mighy fragile under load. It was around 7 oz and this plane flys best at 5oz.

I will keep you all updated as I hope to have it together for the weekend!!


John
Here is my goofy son making fun of Dads F$#@ Up !!!

[3D-Seth]

Nice! Lol

[hpapilot]

Ahh, you got a bit of a case off VPP-nose there!! Don't worry, that happens...

[MICKEL]

John, that must be one of the "cons", lol. :) I don't even need vpp to do that to a plane. :o

I know the slowfly, let us know if it is a good 4d'er. ;)

I am still needing an airframe for my "attempt".... :p :D

How 'bout that Knuffel? Epp nose.....

[xtremeRCpilot]

Ahh, you got a bit of a case off VPP-nose there!! Don't worry, that happens...
RJ... You make it sound like a normal thing :eek: I wondered why I see alot of guys with integral VPP units like the 4d morback :D
I might have to download the plans.


Hey Mickel..... I really like the Knuffel but was thinking of doing an epp on the nose of a Morback. Is the knuffel available in the states ? I would be willing to try one. OHH yes, this is truley one of the cons :o


John

[MICKEL]

I don't think they're available here. One of the (nice) guys here on rcg's gave me the plans for it, to do my own cutting/build. :eek:

I lost them or deleted them likeanidiot.... :mad:

Did you get your vpp from hobbycity? It looks very similar to the other brand and as for the price, wow.

Finally, what servo is "recommended" for the 2208 hollow shaft?

[Stular]

Knuffel plan (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550372)
and build guide (http://schnurzz.de/know/knuffel-anleitung.pdf) in german language, but at least there are some pictures.

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hey MICKEL.... I bought the Mamo Upsidedown system and am using a D47 servo to actuate it. I hit a couple of times and the blades just popped out of there housing hecnce no damage, I just pushed them back in :)
I would recommend a heaver duty servo for the 2208, maybe a HS-81 mg. There is less give to this system with the central push rod.


Stular... Do you have a link to the 4D version of the knuffel or Nipple, cant seem to find it in the plans listing. I will keep checking.

Thanks
John

[Aio_1]

Hi John,

Here's a link to the instructions for the Nippel (in German).
http://slowflyworld.de/austausch/nippel-anleitung.pdf

I have a link to the standard Knuffel plans at the website but I don't see the Nippel plans. Have another look yourself just in case I missed them!

Aidan

[xtremeRCpilot]

Thanks Aidan.... I was looking for the integral motor fuselage plans. If you could send me the link that would be great.. I only see the front mount Knuffel,

Thanks
John

[Aio_1]

Thanks Aidan.... I was looking for the integral motor fuselage plans. If you could send me the link that would be great.. I only see the front mount Knuffel,

Thanks
John
As I mentioned I haven't managed to find the Nippel plans on the website but your best chance might be to post a query in the F3P Plans sticky.
The Knuffel V2 and Smoove plan links by the same guys stopped working a while back and ChrisBowker provided updated links. Perhaps he can help with the Nippel too. Worth a try.

Aidan

[Azarr]

FWIW, I wasn't able to find plans for the Nipple either, but I ordered one online and it was $58.40 delivered to the US which I didn't feel was too bad considering I paid more than that + postage for both my Clicks and Mercury.

Still looking for specific programming instructions for VPP. There needs to be a sticky from the guys who've done it for both Futaba and JR

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[Stular]

knuffel is free. Nipel is not. that is why you can't find any plans for it. But if you do please share.

[matchlessaero]

Hmmmmm, now that I'm flying helis, maybe I should give VPP a try again... Could be fun.

[MICKEL]

There needs to be a sticky from the guys who've done it for both Futaba and JR

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

I second! :cool:

[Aio_1]

knuffel is free. Nipel is not. that is why you can't find any plans for it....
Ah!
Well if that's the case I won't be adding it to the sticky. I don't want to upset anyone! The prices at SlowFlyWorld are pretty reasonable so it wouldn't be the end of the world if you had to buy the kit.

[xtremeRCpilot]

FWIW, I wasn't able to find plans for the Nipple either, but I ordered one online and it was $58.40 delivered to the US which I didn't feel was too bad considering I paid more than that + postage for both my Clicks and Mercury.

Still looking for specific programming instructions for VPP. There needs to be a sticky from the guys who've done it for both Futaba and JR

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

I found this very helpful when setting up my Mamo system on a JR 9303....Hope this helps. :D :D
:D
John

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=716

[Azarr]

I found this very helpful when setting up my Mamo system on a JR 9303....Hope this helps. :D :D
:D
John

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=716

Nice find, thanks,

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[xtremeRCpilot]

Alright guys, its been a while and I am ready for the field... I finished my Morback and am excited to say "Nosedown Hover" in the basement WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... I think I have a winner hear and hope it flys well . I have enough negative pitch to fly Backwards. Here are some pics

No paint yet but if it goes well I am going to build a few more and do some killer paint or send one down to Flyboyz43 for a real kick ass job!!! :D

[firetrappe]

That Morback looks great John! Nice work :cool:

[xtremeRCpilot]

Thank you my Friend !!! Ironic you chimed in as I was just brushing up on your build log for another Infineon for a buddy of mine. You can see the parts on the table behind the Morback. I had alot of fun building this one and added some extra re enforcements of epp to take some abuse when I do some nose touching :D . I will have to build the non 4d Morback next. I hope to get a video of the maiden on this one, hopefully indoors..Thanks again !!
John

[Azarr]

I like the way you have your aileron servos mounted.:cool: No muss, no fuss no unneeded weight.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[xtremeRCpilot]

Thanks Azarr, I saw this used on a nipple 4d and it works great. I have great response and full deflection with having the center of the servo horn set at 0 deg to the aileron!!


John

[firetrappe]

I do like the EPP reinforcements you've used John. A few of us are using Depron/EPP hybrid build techniques on our indoor models now to prolong their lives :)

I'm interested to hear how the smaller Axi performs with the Mamo system. I've used mine with a 2208/34 using 9" blades and a 'Blue Wonder' with 8" blades for outdoor use, but i'm hoping to build a lighter VPP model for the coming indoor season.

If you haven't seen them before, then some videos of my ventures into the world of VPP are in this thread : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=737950

Good luck with the maiden.

Si.

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hey Si, thanks for the feedback, great job on your Ewolution. Nice video!!!
I think the epp makes it look a bit bulky but it may come home in one piece. :D

I am using the 8" blades myself and have a good curve to hover both in positive and negative flight. The Axi 2204 seams to be a good match for this system and it was my only choice because the hub adapter that comes with the mamo kit only fits the 3.17mm shafts. Can you get this for a 3mm? Also what did yours weigh, mine came out to 7 oz AUW with a 3 cell 460mah.

I have been waiting for a no wind condition to really set this up nice, but may wait a few more weeks to fly it in our local sports dome!!! I will keep you posted.

Thanks again
John

[firetrappe]

I think the EPP looks okay, the nose and prop-slots are always the weak spots on these type of models.

Mamo do hubs to fit 3mm, 3.175mm and 2.38mm shafts : http://www.mamo-modelltechnik.com/cgi-bin/shop/frontde/shop_main.cgi?func=anzeige&wkid=584128994984568&rub1=Propeller&rub2=Verstellpropeller%2CUpsidedown
I'm not sure that they are available in the US though. Actually i've had some 2mm hubs machined so that I could try the system on another motor, but i've not gotten round to it yet.

My Ewolution weighed nearly 10oz with a 3S620 pack, but it's a bit bigger than the Morback and I didn't exactly 'build light'.

Whether you fly it outdoors or indoors, just make sure you have plenty of height before you try nose-down hovers so the plane has time to decellerate as you change pitch...ask me how i know :rolleyes: . BTW, to exit a nose-down hover, use down elevator to exit upright or up elevator to exit inverted.

Si.

[xtremeRCpilot]

ha ha ha... I too have experienced the dreaded nose down hover to earth collision. I will make sure to feel this one out up high. Actually I had one wing break off when I went to pull up from the nose down. I will try your method and see if I have better success with the transition. I think I have the curves set up a little better so the motor doesnt spool up when I go from positive to negative pitch. Thanks for your help Si. :)

John

[choza]

what a coincidence xtremeRCpilot, i also finished my Morback yesterday but i have a big problem, my 4D motor, has to move the axis to change the pitch and as you know the servo has a circular movement, and when i try to change the pitch the axis make a little curve and the motor brakes a lot, i need something so the axis move very straight.

sorry for the low quality :D

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hi Choza... I have been trying to figure a solution for this problem myself hence why I am using the mamo upsidedown system on this plane. The pitch control works outside the motor with a hub system and therefor has more flexibility for the curve movement of the pitch servo. I will put more thought in this as I havent seen any other variation for a center hollow shaft system!!

John

PS... Plane is looking great!! Nice build as well!! :D

[darticus]

Is there a plan I could get in full size to print out? Looks like a nice 4D VPP plane. Ron

[MICKEL]

John,
I have to tell you that is just straight wicked!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-035.gif Can't wait to hear (see hint hint) a flight report. :)
Rock ON bro!!!

[xtremeRCpilot]

Thanks Mickel, It is a sweet design and was alot of fun to build. So far I have been doing some close to ground nose down hovers and this thing is dialed in. Straight forward flight , it does all the maneuvers I can throw at it and rolls like on rails... I will try and get some video soon and hope to keep her in one piece before then :D

John

[darticus]

I sent a couple PM's about building the Morback I hope you got them and they didn't get lost. Maybe you can check. Forgot what I sent. Thanks Ron

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hi Ron, Pm sent.

[Tamata]

Hi guys!

I'd like to begin 4D, but I can't find whitch motors you use. I saw DW6 or 8, but quite expensive to begin. Could help me?
Thank you.
Bruno

[xtremeRCpilot]

Hi Bruno, I was using the AXI 2204-54 with good results.


John

[darticus]

Depends on the size and weight of the plane. I have an extra 260 Eflite and it uses a 370 hollow shaft motor with the show stopper VPP UNIT. I' now finishing up an Evolution 4D and using a Dualsky 2826ca-12t motor.
http://2dogrc.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/xmotor-2826ca12t-motor-size-speed-p-2026.html
I'm just trying to learn also next o build a Morback with xtremeRCpilot's expertize.

[Tamata]

Thanks John and Darticus, let's go! :)

Bruno

[xtremeRCpilot]

Here is a cool link for you.... Its very helpful and you have to see this guy fly his Arrow 4d. This guy is my hero !!!!! :cool: VPP 4D (http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/4d/) and 4D Arrow Video (http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/videos/arrow-video.html) :D

Thanks
John

[darticus]

He will answer your emails. I emailed him a few times. Would like to get a Arrow here in the USA. He is also big on the Nipple 4D
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://schnurzz.de/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dslowflyworld.de%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dof f%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3Dzpk%26sa%3DG
Email mailto:donatas.pauzuolis@gmail.com

[xtremeRCpilot]

I had my eye on the Nipple and it was not bad $$ with shipping, I believe it was like $55. I may order one !!!!!

[darticus]

Now for possible battery size. I have 2 cell 300, 450, 500, 800 mah and some 3 cells 800mah. Do you think the 800 is two heavy. Completed finish with
500mah 2 cell battery is AUW 7.4oz. Is there usually much more kick with
the 3 cell Vs a 2 cell? Thanks Ron

[matchlessaero]

Is there usually much more kick with
the 3 cell Vs a 2 cell? Thanks Ron

Ron, that is totally dependent on the wind of the motor.

As for which batt to use, try them and decide for yourself. That will be a much better answer than we can provide you here...... I think the answer will be much more dependent on the amp draw of the motor however- IE, your smallest batteries won't likely fulfill the needs of the motor, and the biggest might be overkill.....

[simages]

Here is a cool link for you.... Its very helpful and you have to see this guy fly his Arrow 4d. This guy is my hero !!!!! :cool: VPP 4D (http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/4d/) and 4D Arrow Video (http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/videos/arrow-video.html) :D
Thanks
John
Donatas is my hero as well and refered me to SlowFlyWorld and the Nipple 4D last year, but haven't put the Heli builds down long enough to put it together.

[darticus]

Anyone try building this? I bought one but German directions and when translated still seems hard to build.

[Roo2]

Does anyone have any practical experience with this?
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6466

[MAMOARMIN]

Yes, i do..it is a copy of my Upsidedown system...
the copier is haoye, which was showing my original mamo models video on his booth in shanghai... :mad:

for what i was able to see, while he was throwing it behind his shelf, the material was pretty soft and i would not like to see the system with high power solutions, which you need...

kr
armin
www.mamo-models.com

[xtremeRCpilot]

I agree with Armin, I have heard they just dont hold up. And have come apart in flight. I have two of the Mamo units and they work flawlessly. :D


John

[Roo2]

Thanks for your reply Armin. The designs of others are fair game in that part of the world... Hard to compete... Can you PM me an English translation of your Upsidedown system description or manual?

[MAMOARMIN]

You should refer to horizon, they are the distributor for this item and should supply english manuals.....
kr
armin
www.mamo-models.com

[firetrappe]

Roo2, English instructions are here : http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/MAOUSDv3.pdf

As Armin says, get the genuine Upsidedown system. It's worked very well for me, and the last thing you want is a poorly manufactured blade flying off at 10,000rpm!

Si.

[Roo2]

Thanks Armin, Firetrappe. Looks like an excellent product and fun thing to try. All I need now is for my local currency to claw it's way back out of the hole it fell into recently for it to become affordable.... I'll be in Germany in early January, maybe I can pick one up there?

[Roo2]

Well I just ordered a Mamo upsidedown set! What's a good BL motor (Watts,kV) for an EPP Ewolution, perhaps 9mm to get a bit of toughness and stiffness without too much carbon? Which prop, 8" or 9"?

[MICKEL]

Yes, i do..it is a copy of my Upsidedown system...
armin
www.mamo-models.com

I bought one of these copies, and I probably should be shot for it. :o The motor was included for a measley $25 or less if I remember correctly. I have a hollow shaft 2208/34, yet I wanted to try something different. :rolleyes:

Well, the motor is on a slowstick now, lol, and the vp system is basically waiting for a "real" motor. Poorly made, I think it will never see the light of day.
I plan to buy the MAMO setup because I believe its the way to go. The copy has a bad trait: the lever will hit the rotating part at full -pitch deflection. (CAN YOU SAY BAD Chinese COPY?) At least it was only $25.....

Caveat emptor!!!! Or buyer beware!!! The saying holds true; you get what you pay for. I will add that Horizon is a pleasure to deal with and has offered me OUTSTANDING service no matter what. Will the CCC (cheap China CRAP) offer the same? BUENA SUERTE or GOOD LUCK!!! :eek:

[MAMOARMIN]

best thing is...after informing hobbycity about them selling a copy, they told me to proof , and asked for a trademark and technical drawings! :eek:
i do not have a problem with them selling crappy stuff after this reaction...
take care..
armin

[Roo2]

Yep, decided to go with the German engineered solution. Armin - what's the biggest motor I can use (Watts, kV)? Most appear to be going for about 85W,1400kV motors. I'll probably do the same but would like to know the recommended limits.

[MAMOARMIN]

Well, we mainly use 35 gram motors, 9 inch blades, the cells are mainly 480s up to 740, therefore the limit is c-rate of the cells...i run my mimoyak with a 480 3 s saehan and KV 1300 35 gram outrunner..so i would suppose 100 - 120 watt is the limit..

[Roo2]

Hello Armin,
Are the plans for your Mimoyak still available?

[Roo2]

I have the Mamo upsidedown system and I'm finally building a foamy to stick it in. I want to buy spare blades for the Mamo system and I'm having trouble finding them.. My Googling isn't picking them up... The Mamo site doesn't work for me because I don't read German and they dont appear to ship to Singapore. Any suggestions where I can buy spares for my Mamo system?

[xtremeRCpilot]

Roo2..I bought my last one from a hobbytown USA as they bought and sold these units supplied by Horizon Hobby. Odds are there might be one that has some inventory. Give a few a call!!! Hope this helps!!

John

[firetrappe]

Andrew, I'd try here : http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=303_468_486
Their shipping page does list Singapore.

I found this site in the US that lists them too :
http://www.viperhobbies.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=286&page=1&sort=2a

Hope this helps,
Si.

[Roo2]

Thankyou very much for the leads on Mamo spare parts. I want a few sets of spare blades to keep it alive for a while. Looks like some of you might heading back in the direction of the T-Rex tail setup now the Mamo is hard to find?

[MAMOARMIN]

@ roo2..
sorry currently we cannot help you with insured shipping to singapore..
@all..
it seems that horizon is out of stock and will not restock the upsidedown system again, they did not communicate this to us at all, sadly..i have to apologize for this behaviour...sorry.guys
anyway..we are currently planning a wharehouse in the states, which will enable you guys to buy the updsidedown systems, manta v2 and some other german goodies directly...with reasonalbe shipping rates out of california.

I hope the webshop will be only at May this year.

Until than, we will have some major dealers delivered with systems and spares within the next week..
kr
armin
PS: what do you guys think of usps..

[jaldersn]

I've had good luck with priority mail, only one mess up in several years,however, I'm in a small town'and pick my own mail up daily........

[Azarr]

@ roo2..

PS: what do you guys think of usps..

I used nothing but USPS for thousands of packages. For the first couple of years I insured them and then realized that in all that time I only had one small package lost. After than I just used the delivery confirmation option. Never had a problem, not one. However, I never shipped kits, but have bought many ( :) ) and have never had a problem with breakage.

Azarr

[MAMOARMIN]

Hi there, thanks for your help...i think we will go with usps...i suppose we will start with smaller quantities, so i hope i will get a good rate...
kits..hm, i am not quite sure how the shipping works with our kits...but we do have demand for mantas once in a while...so,i think we will have some on stock...
the good news...we will have ALL YGE esc on stock than..they are the most popular ones here in europe, mainly for Helis and Boats...
i will have it posted here and do a banner when we are ready to go...
so, take care
armin

[Roo2]

Hong Kong has relatively low cost handling and shipping worldwide... Just an observation from an Aussie living in Asia that is dissappointed how much international handling and shipping is when ordering from almost all US or EU suppliers. I guess it depends on where your stuff is made, where your future target market with growth potential is and how long they are prepared to wait for their order... Can't keep everybody happy!

[nakorn]

mr.roo2
where you fly 3d/ f3p indoor in singapore?

[Roo2]

There doesn't appear to be an indoor scene in Singapore that I've found. I'm told it's been tried and failed. The weather is too warm and the rent is too high I guess. I go to a nearby park to fly outdoors in no or low wind which happens often enough for me and a few like minded individuals.