Rules or standards for judging models

[joe31hat]

Just as subject line states; what do the judges look for at the boat shows? I went this past spring and entered my PT boat into the the judging. I didn't expect to win (first boat built) but was curious what the judges look for in these events? Can anyone shed some light on this subject? It would be nice to know what was expected. :rolleyes:

Thanks

Joe

[Sakura Maru]

Well, as with any show involving modeling, it's the craftsmanship that's foremost. How well you built it, no stains here or there, that kind of stuff. Is the subject original? How does your model compare against others in your class? Are there any details that make it stand out? For the most part, it's VERY subjective.

[seaphoto]

I've done a bit of judging. First thing to know is that there is no uniform standard of judging in the US, so it will vary from place to place. Even the weight of the static judging (how the model looks vs. your performance as Captain) can be wildly different. Sometimes the number of working features will trump a more accurate model.

For the purposes of this discussion, lets stick with static judging. The basic standard is how well built the model is. Is the mast(s) perpendicular to the deck? Hull symmetrical? Visible gaps or seams? Nice paint work? Some contests stop there.

Others will consider the level of difficulty and modify the score based on that. A battleship, for example is more complex than a destroyer, all things being equal. A scratch built model is more work than building a kit.

Very rarely in the US, the accuracy of the model, as judged by accompanying documentation, will be considered. In this case, a file or binder with prototype photos, plans and any other information is supplied to the judges, often with construction photos and notes.

If winning contests is a goal, the best thing to do is go to one, talk to the judges, and find out what is important to them. Then hope the judging doesn't change by the time you finish your model LOL.

Or, build your model to the best of your ability, run it and enjoy it. Strive to make the next model better. Compete against yourself and you will always win. There any many perfectly valid ways to enjoy this hobby.

Kurt

[Ghost 2501]

ok, here's my Nord Icelandia,

Typical display text tat would accompany my models when on display:
"Nord Icelandia is a semi-scale scratch built representation of a modern day ocean survey vessel, complete with working A-frame, and the ability to launch a towed array unit.

Construction of the model uses sheet timber on a lattice frame for the hull and plastic sheet for the superstructure with the A-frame being made out of plastic sections then glued onto a servo for its actual operation, a second servo has been stripped out to provide a pivot for the other side of the A-frame, that servo just has the gearset in there and nothing else. The Radar seeker is mounted ontop of a servo that has been modified for constant rotation. Inside the hangar bay there is a winch, also made from a servo, this allows me to winch the towed array off the deck and into the water.

Inspiration for the model came from watching a National Geographic program about the mysterious wrecks of the Black sea by Dr Robert Ballard, (of Titanic and Bizmark fame).

At the heart of the model are two MFA385 class electric motors to give a reasonable cruising speed, Independent motor control gives her the manouvrabilty that I require given that she has no bow thruster.

"Project Aurora" comes from a novel, Thunder of Erebus, and is taken directly off a fictive spyplane called "AURORA" though the website "www.earthwatch.org" is infact a real website of a scientific charity, I chose it because it seemed fitting, only after poking around on the internet did I find it actually existed. Her color scheme is based loosely on the Canadian Coast guard.

Please do not touch the model"

so please judge her, (remember this is just for fun) a few arrows pointing to things on the pictures to point out key judging areas if you can

[mfr02]

When looking at the model, give scores under the following headings -
Overall impression
Documentation and research
Hull construction
Superstructure
Authenticity of deck
Details
Finish
Fidelity to scale

Add 'em up, he who scores highest, wins.
Often, two or more models will score qually, and then it is a case of nit-picking to separate them. I tend to favour evidence that I am looking at a working model. (water dripping off it, for example)

[CG Bob]

I really wish that the SSMA (http://www.ssmana.org/) had some of its guidebook on line, specifically the sections dealing with judging. The SSMA criteria for scratch and semi-scratch (using commercially available fiberglass hulls) models, the static judging are:
Documentation - 20 points
Quality of Execution - 60 point
Conformance with constructiondata - 10 points
Overall impression - 10 points

The quality of execution is broken down into three sections worth 20 points each: hull; superstructure; and finish.

For kit built models, the SSMA criteria are:
Documentation - 30 points
Quality of execution - 50 points
Presentation - 10 points
Overall impression - 10 points

The quality of execution is borken down into two sections: assembly is worth 20 points; and painting is worth 30 points.

Documentation should be complete, with care taken in its preparation. There should be a synopsis off the ships histroy, including the prinicpal dimensions of the full size ship and model.

The hull must be straight and symmetrical. Porp shafts must be correctly aligned and supported.

Decks should have proper waterways and camber. Deck houses, lifeboats. funnels, hatches and other fittings are to be the correct size and in the correct place. Mast are to be perpendicular to the datum line with the prooper degree of rake.

Finish should have no evidence of scratches, patches, or tool marks. There should be no brush marks, or runs, or evidence of excessive paint thickness.

Here are the IPMS judging guidelines (http://www.ipmsusa.org/MemberServices/memberservices.htm).

[Ghost 2501]

however if a model is obviously a working model, then scratches will be evident. celestia got 3rd place at Crewe millitaire in the working model section, despite the fact that where the crane was, its removal also damaged paint, the scar was (and still is) there.

however using your theory, how would Nord Icelandia fare, adobe some arrows to what you are looking at when making judges.

[Prins Willem]

As stated above judging is subjective. It is that way in more ways than one. The club or org. sponsoring the event will influence the way judging is handled. Our club tried to keep judges at "stand off" distance to level the field a bit. That way models in the same catagory but with more or less miles on them were viewed more evenly. The only judged competition I ever entered (WSBA Biggest Little Boat Show in the Midwest 1988) I was lucky enough to place 3rd with my Dumas USS Crockett in Military Kit. 1st & 2nd place models were so much better than mine you would have thought there were only 3 boats in the catagory. I was pretty proud just to have placed with those two guys (Don Becker, Indy Admirals, Q Shiip, and Gordy Kjer, WSBA, Waveny 44MLB).

No judging system is perfect. Do your best, take victory or defeat with grace, and enjoy yourself.

[Greg Hiltz]

Hi, all;
Just for my slant on things,
As long as there is a criteria and written set of standards to which models are judged in a particular competition, is usually sufficient, especially if there is a dispute over a certain rating or score given, against another model. I know "Judges have the final say" but I've seen a few that were not up to par, when judged against another in the same class, but still garner more points.
I've had one of my models evaluated for insurance purposes for a shipyard,by a recognized professional modeler and curator, and he produced a binder and sheets from the Smithsonian Institute standards for shipmodels, and the criteria for assigning points for the different features and divisions of the judging or evaluation, which listed all the points mentioned in the previous posts below. If memory serves correct, there were 30 judged items, in 5 categgories, and the max point score for the evaluation totalled 100.
-I considered myself very humbled after the man gave me a score of 89, and the written appraisal read that if he had to build or replace this particular model, to the standards and detail I had built it, he would charge $29,500.00
Needless to say, after having the appraisal done,the shipyard did not quibble over paying me less than 50% of this amount.
A simple event model contest, either static or operation R/C could be far simpler, but there must be standards by which to follow for quality, realism, finish, documentation/research, and possibly operating true to scale.

-Greg

[Mule One]

... How well you built it, no stains here or there, that kind of stuff. Is the subject original? ....

That's interesting... my first build is a "Springer" and I am trying to "replicate" a working harbor boat (Sea Mule). The pictures I could get of it show stains on the "white" deck. I thought dirt and stains on a working boat would increase its character. (I know Springers are not in a judged class. ;) )

Do you mean if it's a Scale Model of an actual boat in Judged Show it should probably be pristine. And, probably should not be weathered or aged?

[seaphoto]

Do you mean if it's a Scale Model of an actual boat in Judged Show it should probably be pristine. And, probably should not be weathered or aged?

Again, it depends on the contest. If you are showing at the Mariner's Museum, you will do better with an "as built" model in pristine condition. Other contests have different standards.

One thing, for a good score, weathering needs to be put over a sound base, and done in a subtle and prototypical manner. Over the years I have seen models where weathering was applied in an attempt to hide shoddy workmanship, or slapped on in massive amounts. Remember the scale effect - the same reason why it is best not to use primary colors, such as stark white on models - and tone down that weathering too.

Kurt

[mfr02]

For some types of show, the judging is to determine the standard of the model for an award. The Smithsonian rules would apply in that case. In the case of a competitive show, where the prize is for "best", the criteria that I mentioned in my previous post apply, and are used to compare one model against another.

[Greg Hiltz]

For some types of show, the judging is to determine the standard of the model for an award. The Smithsonian rules would apply in that case. In the case of a competitive show, where the prize is for "best", the criteria that I mentioned in my previous post apply, and are used to compare one model against another.

Exactly.
-Greg

[charlie eaton]

This thread has great information however nobody has mentioned one of the problems that show up. That is the self proclaimed expert on all things who runs around with a dental mirror and a magnifing glass. I have seen all to many of them at IPMS contests. Fortunatly there dosn't seem to be many in the model boat area, but they do exist. It is not my intent to throw a negative look into this but this does occur. The fortunate part again is they are few and far between and don't last long in this area of the hobby.

[Ghost 2501]

at Crewe Militaire, I got third place with celestia, entered as a working model, it had the dents dings and scratches on the hull associated with running, and even had a scar on the paint work, would have probably got second if it had been in better condition, yet a newly built model in PRISTINE condition got nothing, yet a "weathered" paddle steamer took first place.

could it be that the dents and scratches added to Celestia's character?

[Prins Willem]

As we say in Milwaukee "beauty is in the eye of the beer holder". The judges make or break a competition. The WSBA had always tried to mix the judges, one being familiar with ships & boats (Navy, CG, and power squadron personnel work well for this), a model builder, and an outsider not in the hobby. The favorite competition was People's Choice because you just never knew who would win. Each brought a perspective to the judging that was unique and hopefully balanced the judging to a degree.

[Shaun Hendricks]

It doesn't matter whether you are a judge for modelling or a judge for a court system. There is always subjectivity in the decision. The fewer the rules, the more subjective. Codified rules restrict judges decisions if they follow the rules.

If the contest is the type to invite dental mirrors and magnifying glasses, then the rules should state those being used and the modelers know what they are in for. If they are 'fast and loose' and some judge whips those out, they should be pelted with wet sponges for being an overzelous dufus.

That's just my opinon, I could be wrong. :D

[charlie eaton]

Agree With you Shaun. In all the years as a police officer I did see to many judges that played by their own rules. They needed something thrown at them. All in all though,most were good and the model contest judges the same. Of course I say ''good' because they agreed with me. :D :D :D :D

[Ghost 2501]

There are also some judges who are of "the grey brigade", given a basic open competition, where entrants can enter anything from a 1/12th scale pleasure boat (ie chriscraft barrelback) to a 1/96th scale USS Dwight D Eizenhower, the grey brigade will give non military boats a low score, and rate a military boat, (no matter how poorly built or presented) higher than the civvy stuff simply because it is of a military force, (hence "grey brigade" as warships are usually grey)

[Prins Willem]

All great points and exactly why we tried to mix up the experience and perspectives of the judging panel (3 judges in our case). Hopefully you will strike some semblance of balance in the judging. The only way to factor out human error is to factor out the human. You just do your best to mitigate it.

[seaphoto]

Some the posts above illustrate what a thankless job judging a competition can be. Remember that the judges pass up a good portion of the fun time at an event in order to perform their duties. Often, the only feedback they get is griping.


Kurt

[joe31hat]

Me again!

Since I started this thread I'll add one more point. I'm new to the hobby and it was my first model. I thought it was 'scratch built' until the judge asked me if I built the hull... no, but everything above the sheer line was 'scratch'. I didn't know. As I said in the original question I didn't expect to win but entered hoping to get some feedback about the model. None came. Matter of fact there was two clubs attending and we, myself and 2 of my friends, were not approached by either club to attend, join or participate ... odd? I know we should have taken the pro active approach but for what ever reason we didn't. I think I'm going to stop now I feel like I'm rambling..it's late 'Good night, Mrs Kalabash were ever you are'.

Joe

[Prins Willem]

I have noticed on occasion where club members ( in our club and in other clubs) become wrapped up in a event and neglect (yes, I said neglect) to be available to outside modelers and the public. At an open public event I consider this unacceptable. If your club is invited to a public venue you are there to be representatives of the hobby, and to attract visitors to the venue. Most of our guys grasp this concept and will seek out people to talk with at events. By the end of the day most are talked out, which is a achievement in itself (if you know any of our guys).

The health of the hobby and your clubs depends on infusions of fresh blood. If you make people feel like they are bothering you they will go away and not come back. The above observations also apply to contest organizers. Make the contestants feel like they belong or you won't see them again.

[der kapitan]

Kurt and CGBob have the best feel for what the judges look for, but as others have pointed out, it all depends on who the judges are. ;)

Some of them are well-rounded individuals, with a lot of nautical knowledge, while there are others who look for workmanship. :)

And then there are those at certain events who use the "good old boy" method of judging, that is, award your locals and friends---. :p

[mfr02]

Generally, it is accepted that no scratch built model will be totally scratch - the builder will likely have bought paint, running gear and motors. He will not have wound his own rigging lines. And so on.
A shop bought hull does not preclude a model being scratch built, but an idenical looking one that does have a scratch built hull will score higher.

[patmat2350]

I have noticed on occasion where club members ( in our club and in other clubs) become wrapped up in a event and neglect (yes, I said neglect) to be available to outside modelers and the public. At an open public event I consider this unacceptable. If your club is invited to a public venue you are there to be representatives of the hobby, and to attract visitors to the venue. Most of our guys grasp this concept and will seek out people to talk with at events. By the end of the day most are talked out, which is a achievement in itself (if you know any of our guys).

The health of the hobby and your clubs depends on infusions of fresh blood. If you make people feel like they are bothering you they will go away and not come back. The above observations also apply to contest organizers. Make the contestants feel like they belong or you won't see them again.

Hear hear!
A few notable characters aside, this hobby is appealing to introverts who'd just as soon be in their workshop as out at an event. Our affliction is incurable, so we need to learn to cope with it. Part of the 12 step plan is getting out and meeting others we can comiserate with.
So it's great progress when we do make it to a show. But both the old timers working the show and the first time newbies need to realize that breaking the ice is as simple as saying "hello"...

[der kapitan]

Hear hear!
A few notable characters aside, this hobby is appealing to introverts who'd just as soon be in their workshop as out at an event. Our affliction is incurable, so we need to learn to cope with it. Part of the 12 step plan is getting out and meeting others we can comiserate with.
So it's great progress when we do make it to a show. But both the old timers working the show and the first time newbies need to realize that breaking the ice is as simple as saying "hello"...

---and the next step is to say, "hey, lets go get a beer"---. :D

[Aerominded]

Mmmmm, beer... :)

[patmat2350]

why do all our threads devolve to beer and/or cars?

[Ghost 2501]

why do all our threads devolve to beer and/or cars?

because they do! :)

[Aerominded]

why do all our threads devolve to beer and/or cars?

Hey! Why does "beer" = "devolve" :p ;)

Back on topic, the point about engaging the general public at the pond is a good one- the SFMYC printed some very nice business cards that have the logo/website on one side and a general description of club activities/meeting times on the other... I keep a stack in my pocket and hand them out to anyone who shows an interest in what we are doing, along with answering any questions they may have... :)

[Prins Willem]

why do all our threads devolve to beer and/or cars?

Don't ask the guy from Milwaukee. I'm a Brandy drinker. :D

[CG Bob]

As I said in the original question I didn't expect to win but entered hoping to get some feedback about the model. None came. Matter of fact there was two clubs attending and we, myself and 2 of my friends, were not approached by either club to attend, join or participate ... odd? I know we should have taken the pro active approach but for what ever reason we didn't.

Did you go up to any of the judges after the awards were made and sak them any questions? The best tact on this is asking the judge: "What can I improve on my model?" or "What problems did you see on my model?" If approached in this manner, the judge is more likey to discuss the finer and weaker points of your model with you.

At most of the contests I've been to, the judges were other model builders; generally a panel of 3. Some clubs will use their own members as judges. Other clubs will use a majority of judges (2 of 3) from the visiting clubs, with one judge being from the host club. Different panels of judges will grade the model differently.

At one tugboat contest I went to, we had Captains and Crews from a local tugboat company do the static judging, with SSMA score sheets. My USCGC TAMAROA model won 1st place with a score of 99. The same model of USCGC TAMAROA won 3rd place at the Toledo Weak Signals show a few years ago. While I was delighted at the high score given by real tugboat crews; I actually learned a little more from a judge at the Toledo show. Using a commercially available fiberglass hull was part of the reason TAMAROA didn't score higher than third. Another thing that hurt my score was the wooden deck on my model, which the full size ship never had; my research wasn't as good as it should have been.

Does the contest state which rule book they will be following? The SSMA judging criteria are vastly different than the IMPBA, NAMBA, IPMS or AMA requirements. Is there a copy of the rulebook at the contest, primarily for the judges reference - but also for the contestants?