Warning: bad experience with UNAV

[zlite]

I had the misfortune to try UNAV's new PicoPilot GS software (http://u-nav.com/picopilot/picogs.html), which isn't just buggy but simply doesn't do what it says it does. But what was worse was how Dave Perry at UNAV responded. Read on for more (cross posted from here (http://www.diydrones.com/profiles/blog/show?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A42039))...

The software only works on Serial Port 1, which as everyone who has bought a computer in the last decade knows, is no longer the default serial port in the USB era, so you have to go into the windows device manager to remap the serial ports. All sorts of Windows error message pop up, such as "array out of bounds", of the sort I haven't seen since high school programming class. Worst of all, it doesn't do what it says it can do, which is to let you use a point-and-click interface to enter new waypoint data. The manual describes buttons and options that aren't in the software, and the UI is clumsy beyond belief. It may work as a groundstation, displaying aircraft position in real time (I didn't test that), but it doesn't work for data entry, which what I think most people would want it for initially. I could go on for paragraphs...

So I wrote Dave with a list of bug reports, hoping that he'd thank me for my time in helping improve the software and offer to send me a new version once it was done. Sadly, that wasn't the case. Here's what he wrote:

"I have no doubt that you've had problems with your PICO-GS. But since the program works fine on all our systems and our beta testers didn't report any significant issues and now several customers are successfully using it, I can only conclude that you are suffering from "operator error".

Did you spend any time reading the manual ? From your descriptions, I'd take a wild guess and bet you didn't set your windows display to 1024x768 ( as called for in the manual ).

If you don't have the time or patience to read the manual and follow the instructions, then I'd agree it would be a waste of time for you to continue with a review."

Wow. "Operator error", as you all know, is the insulting term that bad programmers use to "blame the victim". It's a really crappy way to treat customers or, for that matter, reviewers. And when was the last time that you used software that required you to manually change your display resolution? 1997? Note no response to any of the bug reports, and a total refusal to acknowledge that the software simply doesn't work.

Has anyone else had a bad experience with UNAV's customer relations?

[Schroly]

Wow....someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

Ive had dealings with U-NAV LLC (and will no doubt have more) and they've been great the whole time.
Dave and Mark have gone out of their way to help me with a minor problem I had so I'm certainly not going to get on the bandwagon you are trying to start up here, and bash U-NAV.

Sounds like you are letting the old ego creep in here with the "no-one tells me I'm wrong" attitude.
Also sounds like a bit of 'primer' advertising for the atto.
What better way to drum up some interest than by berating the opposition, then presenting an alternative that seemingly solves all the worlds problems.

If the GS didnt work for you, fine, if it is buggy, fine, but thats all you need to say.
There's no need to go running up and down the street banging pots and pans trying to get peoples' attention.

Relax and get over yourself.

Anyway, shouldnt this topic have been placed (hidden away) in the 'Vendor Talk' forum, or is someone pushing a barrow here?

U-NAV get a big thumbs up from me :-)

Cheers, S.

[typicalaimster]

Yeah I had the same experience back in Oct of 2005 when I tried to order a unit..

Scott,

We want all of our customers to be successful and satisfied with our products so we routinely screen new customers to make sure they have necessary skills to succeed. In your case, you apparently had trouble understanding our price list and product literature and then complained about it. That's usually an indicator that you'd probably have similar issues with the product you just ordered. So, I'm going to do us both a favor and cancel your order.

David Perry, president
UNAV, LLC

[dmgoedde]

Also sounds like a bit of 'primer' advertising for the atto.
What better way to drum up some interest than by berating the opposition, then presenting an alternative that seemingly solves all the worlds problems.I want to add a small clarification... Chris (zlite) approached me to get an Atto early for review on DIY drones... I offered him two different units for free, and he steadfastly insisted on buying them.

Also, there is no need to back-berate Chris for stating the facts of his experience. His point of view is valid based on his experience, and your point of view is equally valid based on your experience.

[Sgt_Ric]

Well put Dean.

I would venture to say that given Chris's background and experience, his comments are not only valid, but also well founded, and perhaps charitable.

[Unterhausen]

this kind of experience is why I'm only investing my time in open source. I have a problem, I go look at the source.

[Sgt_Ric]

Obviously retailers like UNAV should have a lot more respect for the open-source community.



P.S. UNav can no longer advertise as having produced the world's cheapest autopilot... that honour goes to Chris (zlite)...
< $100, and of course it's open-source.

[typicalaimster]

Obviously retailers like UNAV should have a lot more respect for the open-source community.

I think it's a bit more than that. It's respect for their customers and community in general. I'm paying money for a product and its support. Without customers you won't have a business. The UAV community is still a moderate size. Word gets around who the bad eggs are.

[Jack Crossfire]

The moral of MNAV is sometimes it's better not to make something if you can't support it. Customer support on something like an autopilot is a full time job and you'll be supporting obsolete versions of the product long after it stops selling & you've moved on to newer technology.

[dalbert02]

I read this over at DIYDrones too. Seems like you interview the guy, give him some press and this is the thanks you get. I think UNAV could have been an industry leader in the amateur UAV market if they were we little kinder and kept the PDC-10. Too bad so sad. Oh well. GO DEAN GO! ! ! YEA ATTOPILOT! ! !

-dave

[workshop]

"this kind of experience is why I'm only investing my time in open source. I have a problem, I go look at the source."

That's cool and how I'd do it if I had the time. :eek: I think the UAV market is most lacking in hand holding and customer support and that potential expansion of the market is going to require greater commitment to the end user (crop manager, fire captain, SAR team leader, land manager, pollen gatherer, AQ tester, etc.).

All this hardware is great but what seems to be lacking is full time employees without "day jobs" or hobby stores to run. :rolleyes:

Jeff

p.s. As a business owner in a difficult market (www.teslacoil.com), I'm impressed with anyone that serves this market given the agonizing growing pains we see all these FPV and UAV companies experiencing.

[Gary Mortimer]

Perhaps customer service will be lead by those that supply single task vehicles.

Crop Cam springs to mind..... http://www.cropcam.com

I don't own one but it seems from there website that all the ducks are in a row.

The autopilot is but a very small part of the entire system, I might get shot down for saying that, especially here.

But if the autopilot cannot easily be integrated into a system that has a real world function, then whats the point.

Its no good developing something that requires a rocket scientist to keep it running.

I see a future filled with camera packing foamies that go and look at fires/crop/animals and arrive back home in a sometimes less than elegant fashion but in one piece.

They will be deployed by people doing another job, ie not really interested in how the thing works but the information it gives them.

They certainly won't have read any manuals!!

[Disciple4123]

You guys are on the right path here. I am not in a position to agree with any negative comments on UNAV, as they have just treated me well this week, and I am thankful :)

That being said it is a social problem, engineers tend to be left brain'ers and view everything thru the spectacles of logic, efficiency, and such. Salesmen tend to use the right brain, or the "C" quadrant to concern themselves with marketability and customer service. Very few people can be effective at filling both roles, that is why oftentimes the world has introverted engineers (Nikola Tesla, etc.) and extroverted salesmen to complete the process. Small UAV companies can end up staffing themselves with left brainers, or worse, "Type A personality" left brainers, and may be perceived as condescending to the outside world. I used to be a heavy left brainer, and still am to a certain degree, but I can recognize the value of both types of people.

I would hope that UNAV, and a few other UAV companies I know of, can keep their ducks in a row. The market is out there, and when all this becomes legal (hopefully), we may see a tenfold increase in demand. Hang in there.

[dalbert02]

I would hope that UNAV, and a few other UAV companies I know of, can keep their ducks in a row. The market is out there, and when all this becomes legal (hopefully), we may see a tenfold increase in demand. Hang in there.

Sadly, UNAV appears to have a non linear assortment of water fowl. ;)

-dave