27% ultra rc katana ultra light 75"

[askman]

well, I got one from ebay. great price. well. this is my first giant scale and will be doing as electric to boot. looks like I got one of the last ones.

anyway, I am doing this on a budget. :) and we will see how well it will work out.

so far,

ultra rc katana $190 plus 45 shipping off ebay
Turnigy 100amp 12S ESC $100
motor: have turnigy 64-63/280 for now but thinking about other options. looking at 18-8 or 19-8 prop. looks about 7k rpm.
battery: 8S 4150 zippyR and 8S truerc 5000 pack. (will try both. Zippy R is 2-4S pack connected in series) about $170-180 per pack. ) Looks like Zippy-R will be discontinued by Hobbycity. I've heard rumours that zippy Rs were enerland overruns. too bad if that was the case. I am having truerc 5000 made with the balancing plug for my GT A8 chargers.
servos: tower hobby TS-160 x5 (40 each)
BEC: 2 x sportsbec from Dimension engineering may do the HVBEC.
receiver: ? I have Berg7 or FMA F8 or electron 6. don't know how well these will handle the current. may be I need some form of power distribution. (I can make my own ecb if needed)
wheel: dubro 3" foam wheel.
new robart hinges and horns.

chargers: 2x GT A8 chargers (good for 8S) why I am running 8S setup :D
I have pyramid 35amp power supply and IOTA 55amp power supply . for field charging, I am going to pickup a generator for our sportsmobile sprinter conversion van.


trying to keep it light. I am hoping for 9lb, but may be tough with this motor.

I will try to post some pics this weeknd as I get my work bench cleared up.

[rebell]

Giant Electric Planes
Discuss large electric aircraft that meet IMAA giant scale guidelines: minimum 80" wingspan, 60" wingspan for biplanes, 140" combined width and length for jets, or true 1/4 scale models

It is nice to have a big plane, but at 75" do you thing it qualifies for Giant Scale?

[Tipover]

Should fall under the 1/4 scale Katana rule. I doubt the full scale is real large. I know a 1/4 scale Edge is only about 72" wingspan. Anyhow its giant for electric :)

Kevin

[askman]

it is 27%, so it qualifies. it is not a large plane, still, for electric, large enough. :) bigger than 1/4 scale tiger moth, which can run with 2820 motor. :D

[Jeffery]

Big enough IMHO. Post 'er up! :)

[askman]

I have not done too much yet. sunday, my imac buddy will be coming over to start the build. it will take some time to get it finished, but we do want to maiden before end of the summer. here are some pics. still cleaning up my bench, but it is purple/yellow covering job. we will start the hinging/servo mounting tomorrow. I don't have the control horns in yet, so we won't finish that for few days. replacing factory robart clone to real robart hinges. the quality looks decent. very light and strong. some wrinkling in the covering, but that is typical. bit of heatgun will take care of that. I have most electronics. the motor is turnigy cheapies. I have 230 and 280 kv. Originally thought about doing 10S, but 8S was more economical, so going with 280kv motor swinging Xoar 19-8 prop (at least that is the plan). figuring close to 2000watt in at full. going to mount the eagle tree datalogger. going to run dual sportBEC. according to DE, 1 is probably enough, but rather have redundancy. it will save me bit of weight by having no receiver pack.

anyway, what I have so far.

[rebell]

If it is scale of this plane, OK, but if it does not look like this, it is not a scale plane and the rule does not count. There is only one real aerobatic Katana, and that is the T30. This model is not a scale model of that plane, or of any other full size plane for that matter.

The Katana T30 has a wingspan of 7.77m. That is 305.9". At 75" a real scale model will be 24.5% of that.

[tai626]

Subcribed.

[drstillpatient]

Hi askman,

Glad to see another Ultra-RC Katana 75" going electric. Mine's been flying since last summer. Pretty much the same setup as you have with the Turnigy 63-64-230kv motor and Turnigy ESC. Initially ran an 8S setup with a 20x10 prop but vertical was not great. So i switched to 10S keeping the same prop and now full throttle is hardly ever required. it floats very nicely and does anything you want it to.

The Turnigy motor is extremely smooth and performs very well, frankly, beyond my expectations for a cheap Chinese outrunner. But i am at 11 pounds with the 10S setup which caused the landing gear leg to break once already on a less than perfect touchdown.

I'm changing out the entire landing gear setup and install conventional CF landing gear since this tube structure is not working out with me.

Lemme know how you go about the 8S setup...

[askman]

that is why I got the 280kv motor. should bring up the rpm. with the 230 motor, I figured you need 21" prop to get the wattageup. it was easier to go higher kv. I may be going to 20x10. we will see. I know a guy with giles who run 18x6 at 7000rpm and he is happy with the power. but prop is easy change. only complaint about this motor is the weight. I was originally thinking about running eflite 110, but went with this.

I am going to reinforced the LG with inner 5mm solid rod and extra fiber glass. really want to keep it light though. graphtech will add several ounces.

8S pack I have weighs 900gm.

[drstillpatient]

that is why I got the 280kv motor. should bring up the rpm. with the 230 motor, I figured you need 21" prop to get the wattageup. it was easier to go higher kv. I may be going to 20x10. we will see. I know a guy with giles who run 18x6 at 7000rpm and he is happy with the power. but prop is easy change. only complaint about this motor is the weight. I was originally thinking about running eflite 110, but went with this.

I am going to reinforced the LG with inner 5mm solid rod and extra fiber glass. really want to keep it light though. graphtech will add several ounces.

8S pack I have weighs 900gm.

With that pack weight at 8S and that motor, you'll have a very very floaty model. Do tell how the power works out with the higher KV motor.

[blucor basher]

If it is scale of this plane, OK, but if it does not look like this, it is not a scale plane and the rule does not count. There is only one real aerobatic Katana, and that is the T30. This model is not a scale model of that plane, or of any other full size plane for that matter.

Yawn.

[Jeffery]

Yawn.


++1

[askman]

geez. I am willing to have it moved if it will make you guys happy. :D I guess I got taken by a vendor who said it was a katana. who'd have thunk that I got extratana. :D I am not going to compete with it. just a sunday flyer who is doing his first large electric plane. (mostly flying helis and foamys before) frankly, I thought people will be interested in the cheap power system that I am trying, which is for large scale.

or I can always add a 5" winglets /side force generator LOL

my first choice was a 25% suhkoi that eastrc sells. friend of mine talked me into this and eastrc was out of stock. that is actually bit smaller. 72"wingspan, but true 25%

[Jeffery]

I think everybody but one person is perfectly fine with it being right here. Post away!

[blucor basher]

Askman - You're doing fine, we all like your thread and your plane, ignore Rebell.

Fact is, a "scale" Katana flies awful. Like a "scale" Yak. These planes (used to be UltraRC...not sure what to call them now?) fly really nicely, I'm sure you'll have a great time with it.

[askman]

thanks. LOL I am enjoying this no matter what. :D I think there is merit to make rc "sport scale" to make it fly better, and do a bit to reduce cost to the consumer (may be using same jigs/sharing parts if possible) most of us don't care about "true scale" but we do care about well flying affordability .

I used to do build from kit since I was a kid, before I quit this hobby. (about 15years ago) I came back with helis and foamy about 7 years ago. Now, this is first wood/stick (ARF) setup since that time, and I am finding that I don't have my iron anymore. I have a heatgun. :) wife does not iron either, so I will have to pick one up. LOL I have to admit that iron on finish on this bird is much better than I ever could do. infact, it is better built than any kit that I put together. amazing quality.

so, it will delay me a bit. it is funny, I have 3 cnc machines in my garage (mill, router) and don't have an iron. LOL

edit: it has been 7 years not 5. geez where does the time go. :D

[sun.flyer]

Looks good!!!

I look forward to hearing/seeing more on your conversion. :)

Tim

[askman]

My imac buddy did not show up today, so I am bit behind. I am almost ready to glue in the hinges and mount the servo. servo will have to wait for my iron. :D

I did some measurement, Looks like I need 2" standoff on my motor mount. I will order some from mcmaster-carr and turn it down a bit to save a bit of weight. probabaly go with 10-24 screw size. hmm, wonder if mcmaster has iron. :) I guess I need to put together a tower hobbies order (need control horns anyway, going with robart 1/2" per my friend) the esc will be mounted on the motor mount box. tower hobbies iron for 13 bucks . Battery will be mounted in the tuned muffler box area. I will need to make up a mount for it. I do want to make sure that I won't need to add weight anywhere.


according to most report, it should come out about 9.5lb with OS160. which weighs 1200 gm with muffler. fuel tank and motor mount is 180gm, 12oz fuel (340 gm), throttle servo with link (50gm), and flight pack (120gm) total of 1900 gm . my pack is 900 gm, motor is 750 as it stand plus standoff. esc is 125g plus 30gm for 2 sportbec. or about 1850gm. my guess is that my weight will come out similiar to OS 160 setup. not bad. giant scale floater. and with lack of vibration from motor, it should fly smooth.....

[spyderron]

Looks good fellow Oregonian! I always wondered how the Katana would fly. I've had the Ultra RC Giles 202 for almost 2 years and the Katana is listed as being lighter w/ the same wing span.
I'm running a Neu 1515 w/6.7:1 GB on 10s 3700 mAh w/ a Xoar 22 X 8. Pulls well over 2.4KW at 10.6 lbs. Yes, I ditched the stock landing gear and went w/ some graphtech. Using HS 5985's all the way around and a 2000mAh lipo for the servo/radio power. I don't think I've ever used full throttle...it's ballistic!

Have fun w/ this one & keep up the good thread,
Ron

[askman]

nice. neu1515 is good one. what type of gearbox? what kind of rpm are you running? Giles is nice one plane. I would bet it flies nice. hows your ground clearance with that big a prop? I will have my friend maiden this one when it gets done, at the dusters in woodburn. if it gets done early enough, I may even let him borrow it to take to some of the imac event, just to show it off. I am hearing that there is quite a bit of interest on this one locally. I think time is getting good for giant scale Electrics :D

[rebell]

Yawn.Is that your name?
Fact is, a "scale" Katana flies awful.Did you fly one? I build and flew one and it is a nice flying plane.

At least a model Yak looks like a Yak. The Katana S does not look like a Katana T30 and it is not even a standoff scale model of the Katana T30. That is why it is called a Katana S. You can yawn (if it is not your name) as much as you like, it will not change this. Sarcasm is not fact and proof nothing but rather indicate lack of communication.

If this is accepted, and I will accept it if the majority feel it is valid, anybody can open a thread about any 75" model. So post away, this forum is open to all 75" planes.

I am out of here.

[sun.flyer]

Is that your name?
Did you fly one? I build and flew one and it is a nice flying plane.

At least a model Yak looks like a Yak. The Katana S does not look like a Katana T30 and it is not even a standoff scale model of the Katana T30. That is why it is called a Katana S. You can yawn (if it is not your name) as much as you like, it will not change this. Sarcasm is not fact and proof nothing but rather indicate lack of communication.

If this is accepted, and I will accept it if the majority feel it is valid, anybody can open a thread about any 75" model. So post away, this forum is open to all 75" planes.

I am out of here.

What?? :confused:

Tim

[drstillpatient]

Askman,

You've probably been told this before...with the final wing installation to the fuse, wait until you have all of the electronics and hardware installed and finalized. Setting that floating CG and wing location would be much easier that way.

[blucor basher]

I am out of here.

Ok, sounds good.

[cpt micah]

I am out of here.

Ok, sounds good.

i second that. rebell who honestly give a ****. you are taking this way to seriously. just let the man have his fun with his new plane. i for one am really anxious to see how his more affordable setup works, so keep it coming!

[askman]

I understand that I need most of the equipment mounted before the final wing installation (as you can move it back/forward to find the correct CG) The real reason for this thread has more to do with power system than the plane. I've been happy with smaller stuff from Hobbycity/turnigy. I've been hearing that this size motor is performing fairly well, while larger size motors seems to have heat/bearing issues. One thing though, it is only 2 bearing motor, so having well balanced prop is important for long lasting motor. (I mean you would anyway) I got the ESC for another project last year. (OEMRC marking instead of turnigy) but it is OEM jeti/hobby wing ESC. Battery pack was a big thing. I have bunch of 6S A123 packs made up with power tube, but their weight was an issue at this size plane. (with powertube, I am at 500gm per 6S A123 setup) 12S A123 would work well with the 230kv motor, but probably 5-6 min flying time. I may do some testing with A123 down the road, but zippy-r/zippy-h/truerc pack seems like a decent packs for this application. We will have some eagletree data to share. biggest thing is finding time to finish this quickly. next weekend, I am planning on bench testing the motors. (rpm/power with props) so, I will have some data to show as I build this up. :)

[txfly]

im finding that motors in the 270-325 kv range heat up at 55 amps. i really wanted to run an 18x10 on my a5016L (8s) , but had to settle on a 17x10 at 55 amps to keep the motor cooler. maybe winter time will allow a bigger prop. hows the turnigy motor temperature wise?

[askman]

I will do some testing next weekend and post some real world data.

It is always best to go higher voltage if you need to run high continous power as it is bit more efficient. from the material side, Brushless motor is simple device. to get maximum efficiency, you need high quality thin laminate stator and high quality magnet. bearing dictates the maximum rpm/life and winding dictate the KV. I am finding that average brushless motors from different makers are similiar in performance and that home made motors do not necessarily do better job. (winding is not that important for efficiency)

Beyond that, good open air flow design is very important for larger motor. luckily airplane has big fan in front of it that helps a lot compared to helis, but there are other factors.

larger mass is also important in dissipating heat, the turnigy motor weighs in at 650gm, 750 with prop adapter and mount. I can probably do 800watt average with this motor and keep it cool. peak can be double that. (for short time) this is the reason why a100/200 motors are so big. 1800gm for a100 and 2600gm for a200. Now, Decent rule of thumb is 1watt/gm for average power. You can go higher if you are running shorter time with cool down time, or lower if you are running longer time. So, unless that 510gm hacker A50L has significantly higher efficiency. (mostly likely not 1-2% probably if that) the turnigy should handle heat better just by being heavier.


sorry for the long dissertation. motor design is not magic, and there is no free lunch. :D

[tai626]

I bought a cheap Extratana from fleabay also (Btw, it is 80", before someone start complaining). It is waiting for me since I have 3 unfinished projects in line. I am really interested about your low budget approach.

[Tipover]

im finding that motors in the 270-325 kv range heat up at 55 amps. i really wanted to run an 18x10 on my a5016L (8s) , but had to settle on a 17x10 at 55 amps to keep the motor cooler. maybe winter time will allow a bigger prop. hows the turnigy motor temperature wise?


Wow, your comment really surprised me. I run this same Hacker motor with a Xoar 20x10 prop on 10s1p A123 and pull 60 amps WOT...and being a backyard flier I'm known to even fly four consecutive flights. Flying style and ambient temp conditions obviously play a big role. I do tend to fly later in the afternoon/evening, so probably only 75-80 degree's outside on the average in the heat of the summer. Also my plane only weighs a tad over 8 lbs, so I suppose that could make a big difference on the average power level. I've never measured my motor temp, but it’s never been anything I can't comfortably hold onto. I guess us Northern fliers got it made in some respects :D

Kevin

[txfly]

yah, my plane is probably 9.5 lbs, so im using WOT alot. im sure at 8lbs id use less full throttle ( and enjoy a better flying model!)

[flynz4me]

Hey sorry Andrey I didn't make it over Sunday. I'm swamped getting ready for the Pacific Coast Freestyle Championship in Molalla. Can't wait to get this bird going. Go to a hardware store and pick up a tiny bottle of Gorilla Glue and I'll swing by and pick up the wings, stab, and rudder and get them all hinged up. It is hard to juggle practice and a family right now, but I have the 5am to 7am block free to get them hinged. This thing is gonna rock!!! I can't wait to wring it out!!!

Rebel take a chill pill holmes, it isn't like this is scale masters. I love people who have to rain on others parade!!!

Alright let's get this started!!

Extrana on a budget!!!

Devin

[flynz4me]

...

[flynz4me]

Alright enough of that, bring in your wings Andrey let's get this project started!!

Devin

[askman]

quick update: I have all the stuff ordered. looks like I need 2" standoff for the motor. 10-32 through hole 3/8" ordered from mcmaster. (the mount flange is 10mm, which is very close to 3/8") I will use couple 1/16" g-10 plate for the reinforcing plate on the firewall. will cnc it out. also, ordered the rest of the stuff I need from tower.


I am also seriously thinking about going 2.4ghz with this. I am running evo7, and it can be spektrumized fairly easily. I have hitec eclipse with assan module, but its lack of diversity is an issue for large scale (perfect for park flier though) anyway, it is a thought. I am still debating the radio/receiver issue. have not heard from DE about my order, but I have one sportbec, so i could run that if I have to.

[markusvt]

Do you have a picture of how you mounted the motor?

Hi askman,

Glad to see another Ultra-RC Katana 75" going electric. Mine's been flying since last summer. Pretty much the same setup as you have with the Turnigy 63-64-230kv motor and Turnigy ESC. Initially ran an 8S setup with a 20x10 prop but vertical was not great. So i switched to 10S keeping the same prop and now full throttle is hardly ever required. it floats very nicely and does anything you want it to.

The Turnigy motor is extremely smooth and performs very well, frankly, beyond my expectations for a cheap Chinese outrunner. But i am at 11 pounds with the 10S setup which caused the landing gear leg to break once already on a less than perfect touchdown.

I'm changing out the entire landing gear setup and install conventional CF landing gear since this tube structure is not working out with me.

Lemme know how you go about the 8S setup...

[markusvt]

9.5 on 8S?

yah, my plane is probably 9.5 lbs, so im using WOT alot. im sure at 8lbs id use less full throttle ( and enjoy a better flying model!)

[txfly]

9.5 on 8S?


8s is capable of 1800 to 2K watts. 189watts/lb -210 watts/lb

[drstillpatient]

Do you have a picture of how you mounted the motor?

I'll take one and post it here. Gimme till saturday for that though...work's gonna be in the way.

[askman]

I should have motor mount figured out this weekend. (I have standoffs coming)

I got a nice package from Dimension Engineering (sportbecs, VHVbecs, DElight controllers) It is nice being a dealer for them. :) I will be using dual VHVBEC . (Just in case I want to test my 12S A123 setup) I also got my package from Tower. (Got my iron . yeh. :D ) as well as some Robart control horns. I also picked up 18-8W prop and 19-8 scimitar prop. I will be picking up XOAR 19-8 from LHS tomorrow.

Made an offer to devin. I asked him if he wants to take the kit to the mollala IMAC competition and build it in the evenings and possibly test fly it if they get that far. If they do, it will speed up my build. :D and I don't mind. we will see how much progress I make this weekend.

Plan is to do some motor testing with various prop., I need to make a simple mount that I can clamp to my bench vice. may cut something out of g-10. will be static testing. I will mount the Eagle tree micro e logger so I should get some real world data. That reminds me. I do need to solder up the deans on my battery packs and get them ready.

[drstillpatient]

Askman, how are you planning your battery tray? ULTRA-RC had an evolution that had a battery cage available that could be mounted in the pipe tunnel IF one wanted to go electric. My repeated emails to Ultra-RC went unanswered on using that cage on the Katana and making it available for purchase.

[askman]

my plan is to build a battery cage into the pipe tunnel at this point. I can cut something out of g-10 for that and mounted in and probably use velcro straps.have not really looked at the fuse yet. have to figure out the best way to mount the battery plate and how the pipe tunnel is made.

[flynz4me]

Thinking about the battery cage I like the idea of the G-10 with 2 sets of slots for velcro straps, a neutral slot for Andrey and a rearward CG for me :D:D:D...

I'm thinking Ben and I can get through the hinging and control setup while at Molalla, and since Ben (rcgood) just built his UL Giles we'll be able to snap right through the build. Plus at night there are like two things to do; party and play Elephant or build the eTana!!

Devin

P.S. Are you going to bring out the eTana to Molalla, because with my Yak in the trailer I'm not sure if I will have room... I will be out there Wednesday through Sunday and you can take it home Sunday since you are coming to watch the Freestyles right??? ;)

[askman]

I will bring it out. I just ordered a new radio to go with it. Airtronic RDS 8000. Just got it with 2 rx for 229.00 delivered. (ebay/bobshobbybarn) too good a deal to pass up and I like FHSS. seems to have good review.

I am hoping it will show up early next week, so I can leave it with the plane. I will drop off the plane on wednesday morning, and radio when it comes in.

[flynz4me]

Sweet.

[drstillpatient]

markusvt,
As promised, here are the motor installation pics with the Turnigy ESC and motor. i also included a battery tray pic. I would prefer to have a battery cage in the pipe tunnel. Or i'll just end up adding a hatch latch to the canopy.
The standoffs are 60mm, so they're just short of 2.5 inches.

[ICRSHLTS]

I know there have been several ideas with fixing the landing gear- can someone show what they did to change to graphtec gear and what gear did you purchase-did you have to cut apart the plane alot? thanks Ryan

[drstillpatient]

I know there have been several ideas with fixing the landing gear- can someone show what they did to change to graphtec gear and what gear did you purchase-did you have to cut apart the plane alot? thanks Ryan

See post # 405 here (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4809772/mpage_17/key_/tm.htm) .

The Landing gear used here is graphtech #122

[askman]

I am doing something similiar with 2" standoff and couple 2mm g-10 plate for reinforcement.

This has been heck of a weekend. I got honeydo'd on saturday, and had to get my foamy down the tree :rolleye: and try to get catch up on my orders today. I did finish up some of my other projects and out of the way, but did not get to much work on the plane. I will try to get some testing done on the motor tomorrow morning. (going into work late) Devin will be trying to get the build started at mollala IMAC event so I will have some progress. I picked up Xoar 19-8 prop. I also got the APC 18-8W, and that is a heavy blade, I am sure it is perfect for smooth flying, but dang it is heavy. probably not going to do that. I need to get a 12mm reamer though for the prop. I want to test the motor before I drop it off to devin. so, I need to get it done either tomorrow or tuesday morning.

Looks like I have a second generation motors. should be good.

[G.P.]

Did this ever fly? I've got an airframe sitting in my basement (along with an Ultra RC Giles) that I've been waiting to electrify. With the price of lipos now I think it may be the right time to go for it. I would like to have a setup that can swap lipos between this and the new 70" Slick that 3DHS is coming out with. They're recommending a 6s setup though, which I'm not too sure would work well on this. Definately wouldn't work well on the Giles. Maybe go 8s all around, but those 6s packs are getting cheap right now.

[hcuellart]

I am flying one of these on a 3700mah 12S setup and it flies pretty well :D .
Though I did not pay much attention at the construction, it is not the truest plane but mixing has corrected it... I adapted a gear from a Goldberg Sukhoi and painted it yellow it actually looks nice... :)

[drstillpatient]

Did this ever fly? I've got an airframe sitting in my basement (along with an Ultra RC Giles) that I've been waiting to electrify. With the price of lipos now I think it may be the right time to go for it. I would like to have a setup that can swap lipos between this and the new 70" Slick that 3DHS is coming out with. They're recommending a 6s setup though, which I'm not too sure would work well on this. Definately wouldn't work well on the Giles. Maybe go 8s all around, but those 6s packs are getting cheap right now.

I am considering the same thing. I 'upgraded' my Ultra RC Katana with an AXI 5320/18 motor running on Hyperion 4500mAH 6S 30C lipos. The same setup can be moved as it is to the 70" Slick from the specs i hear. I believe 3DHS is recommending a 5000mAH 6S Lipo so this should be good too.

[G.P.]

I am flying one of these on a 3700mah 12S setup and it flies pretty well :D .
Though I did not pay much attention at the construction, it is not the truest plane but mixing has corrected it... I adapted a gear from a Goldberg Sukhoi and painted it yellow it actually looks nice... :)Try moving your CG around. Mine flew almost coupling free with my OS 1.60.

I am considering the same thing. I 'upgraded' my Ultra RC Katana with an AXI 5320/18 motor running on Hyperion 4500mAH 6S 30C lipos. The same setup can be moved as it is to the 70" Slick from the specs i hear. I believe 3DHS is recommending a 5000mAH 6S Lipo so this should be good too.Have you flown it on 6s yet? How's the vert punch out of a hover?

[drstillpatient]

Have you flown it on 6s yet? How's the vert punch out of a hover?

oh yeah, have flown it for months now on 6S. Punch out from hover is good, it doesnt blast out but it gets you out of any situation with ease. verticals are also effortless. I fly mostly 3D and i'm right around 9 pounds with a slight tail heavy CG with this setup so its nice and light on the wings now. surprisingly it flies IMAC real well too on this setup and CG.

[G.P.]

Thank you, that is exactly what I am looking for! I don't need a crazy punch out, but I've flown planes that will only hover at full throttle and that can get a little scary!

Thanks!

[kwiktsi]

Bringing this one back up. I just bought one of these from ebay and planned on running a Welgard C6362-10 on 8s 5000's with around a 20x8 prop. Any thoughts on this setup? Will it power this plane well? Will a 20" prop clear on the stock landing gear?

[G.P.]

I'm not up to speed on that motor, but anything that comes close to needing an 8s 5000 and a will spin a 20" prop will be a rocket. It will probably come in right around 9 lbs, so approx 1800 watts will give you 200 watts per pound. I find that even 160 - 170 watts per pound is fine for 3D and vert punch out.

You should have lots of ground clearance as the gear on this is quite high. I ran an 18" on my OS 1.60 and had lots of clearance for flying off of grass.

[kwiktsi]

I'm not up to speed on that motor, but anything that comes close to needing an 8s 5000 and a will spin a 20" prop will be a rocket. It will probably come in right around 9 lbs, so approx 1800 watts will give you 200 watts per pound. I find that even 160 - 170 watts per pound is fine for 3D and vert punch out.

You should have lots of ground clearance as the gear on this is quite high. I ran an 18" on my OS 1.60 and had lots of clearance for flying off of grass.

Thanks! They actually rate the motor at a max of 1500 watts, but I'm sure It'll take more than that for short bursts- I'll find out one way or another for sure :D.

It is a 286kv motor and they claim around 14# thrust/1347 watts at 29 volts and 46a with a 20x8 prop. I'll give that a shot first and then prop up from there until it performs how I want it or something melts :).

edit- now that I am doing the math, I am wondering if it is going to be TOO heavy with 8s 5000's.. I wanted to use these packs because I had them, but the packs weigh ~40oz, plus the 22oz from the motor is 62oz just in batteries and motor. An OS 1.60fx is only 33oz. I'm sure it will fly fine, but it is getting towards the heavy side. Maybe I'll start looking for some smaller packs to power it with.

[kwiktsi]

I have a stupid question. For the linkages, the manual states to use silver solder. I live in a pretty rural area and would have to order it if needed. Can I use regular rosin core electronics solder, or does it have to be silver? I really can't see it not being strong enough with regular solder but have never built a plane this size, so don't know how much stress is actually on the linkage. Thanks.
Joe

[G.P.]

I think that the OS is 33 oz without the muffler. Plus you have to add the mount, a pump (most installs need one - I had one), the fuel tank, and the APC 18 x 6w prop that everyone uses is the heaviest prop I've ever owned. With that setup the plane flew VERY light (also had an aluminum spinner and wheel pants). I would try your batteries since you have them anyways. If you don't like it, then spend the cash.

Sorry, I have no idea about the soldering. I just ordered some threaded rod and ball links, and got rid of any chance that I would mess that up!

[kwiktsi]

I think that the OS is 33 oz without the muffler. Plus you have to add the mount, a pump (most installs need one - I had one), the fuel tank, and the APC 18 x 6w prop that everyone uses is the heaviest prop I've ever owned. With that setup the plane flew VERY light (also had an aluminum spinner and wheel pants). I would try your batteries since you have them anyways. If you don't like it, then spend the cash.

Sorry, I have no idea about the soldering. I just ordered some threaded rod and ball links, and got rid of any chance that I would mess that up!

I had thought about that stuff after I posted (the mount, muffler, fuel, etc.) but couldn't find any info on the capacity of the stock tank in order to figure out the weight of that as well.

I'm sure it will fly just fine. I'll see if I can dig up any info on why they recommend silver solder vs. standard and go from there. I can get some if needed, I just didn't know why they recommend it in the first place as you'd think standard solder would hold just fine.

Lastly- are you guys using the hinges that come with it, or replacing them with the real thing? Any failures of the stock hinges?

Thanks for your help! I can't wait to get this thing and get it in the air!!

[G.P.]

No problems here with the stock hinges. Can't recall if it was my Katana and/or my Giles, but I remember the hinge pin holes being really big. I ended up using Gorilla Glue which expands and it did a great job. Just moisten the hinge pin holes with some water and a Q-tip first. Use some kind of lubricant on the hinges to prevent them from being glued (I used Vasaline) too. After everything is glued and in place just flex the control surface every ten minutes, and wipe away the extra expanding glue with isopropyl.

[kwiktsi]

No problems here with the stock hinges. Can't recall if it was my Katana and/or my Giles, but I remember the hinge pin holes being really big. I ended up using Gorilla Glue which expands and it did a great job. Just moisten the hinge pin holes with some water and a Q-tip first. Use some kind of lubricant on the hinges to prevent them from being glued (I used Vasaline) too. After everything is glued and in place just flex the control surface every ten minutes, and wipe away the extra expanding glue with isopropyl.

Gotta love Gorilla Glue, it's great stuff! Thanks again.
Joe

Edit- haha- I have ANOTHER question.. Does this plane take standard sized servos or are they 1/4 scale? I am trying to get a parts list together to budget for the build. I'm debating on giving the BlueBird servos a shot- they are ~$19 for 126oz servos and $14 for ~89 oz! I have used their smaller servos in the past with no problems, but am unsure if I want to risk it in a large plane like this. Do you recommend standard or digital servos?

[kwiktsi]

Does anybody know the weight of the assembled airframe minus motor, electronics and fuel? I am trying to figure out my total weight based on the components I plan on using to make sure they'll work prior to ordering everything. Thanks.
Joe

[G.P.]

Sorry, I don't know how i missed your question the other day. The Katana takes standard size servos. I'm not sure of the recommended torque, but I think it was around 130 oz/in. I used HS5645 and had good luck with those. I would be tempted to try the 126oz BlueBird servos. There's two servos for the elevator and one for each aileron, so if you have a failure you'll most likely be able to get the plane home in one piece. I would probably go with more torque on the rudder though. The stock tail wheel transfers a lot to the servo too, so metal gears would probably be a good idea.

Sorry, I don't have the airframe weight. There is a thread about this aircraft on another universe, I mean site, so maybe try reading through that if you can find it.

[kwiktsi]

Thanks. I believe I read somewhere that they recommend 90oz minimum. I hope so, because I actually ordered 4 Bluebird 621MG's (109oz@6v) for aileron and elevator control and one 630mg (195 oz!!!! @ 6v) for the rudder. They were only $13.43 and $16.62 each, so they were worth a shot!

The plane actually came in today, so I'll try to pile it all on the scale and get a weight. Thanks.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

OK, got the plane mostly assembled. Couple things bother me about it- 1) they couldn't drill the hinge holes on the center line and so my two elevator halves are about 1/8" off from each other (shouldn't effect flight though) and 2) the covering, mainly the purple and black- SUCKS!! The purple peels very easily and shrinks and wrinkles badly with heat. The black and yellow just delaminate easily, with the black seeming worse. I haven't even finished it yet and I have places where I have to glue the covering down and or strategically place stickers.

Another gripe, though I found it funny, is the decals that came with mine have "Katana" spelled as "Ktana"- jeesh...

Lastly, I got it all on the scale tonight and it looks like it is going to come in around 10lbs, 5oz AUW. A bit heavier than I wanted, but my packs are pretty heavy too. Once I get some extra $$$, I'll be ordering some 3700's vs. my 5000's. On paper, I should be able to save ~11oz with the 3700's!

This is without a spinner as well, the plastic ones look to weigh around 6oz and it wasn't worth the weight to me. I am debating on also leaving the wheel pants off (they were on when weighed), that will save close to 3oz. We'll see how it flies, then go from there.

Overall, pretty decent plane but I would be ticked if I paid full retail for it, considering the build quality. For the $159+ shipping I paid, it is a great "starter" large plane. When the time comes, it will be replaced with a 3DHS plane to go along with my 55" SHP from them. Their quality hands down puts this one to shame!

[kwiktsi]

I am considering the same thing. I 'upgraded' my Ultra RC Katana with an AXI 5320/18 motor running on Hyperion 4500mAH 6S 30C lipos. The same setup can be moved as it is to the 70" Slick from the specs i hear. I believe 3DHS is recommending a 5000mAH 6S Lipo so this should be good too.

After seeing what my AUW was tonight, I think something like this would have been a better setup. I'll see how it flies first, but I think it is going to be too heavy and not enough power.

[G.P.]

It does have a few issues, but flys great once you get it all done. Remember, you could buy almost three of these for the price of one 3DH plane this size. You can't have everything!

BTW, the gear on the Giles is a major weak spot. I haven't had any trouble with the Katana's gear, but I epoxied some solid carbon rod inside of the gear legs before she even left the ground.

[kwiktsi]

It does have a few issues, but flys great once you get it all done. Remember, you could buy almost three of these for the price of one 3DH plane this size. You can't have everything!

BTW, the gear on the Giles is a major weak spot. I haven't had any trouble with the Katana's gear, but I epoxied some solid carbon rod inside of the gear legs before she even left the ground.

I agree about the price- that's why I bought this as my "beginner" large scale plane :). It is a stepping stone, so to speak.

As for the gear, I couldn't find any carbon rod the right size to be a tight fit, so I went one size smaller and filled the gear with gorilla glue and then pushed in the thinner rod. We'll see how it holds up...

[G.P.]

That ought to do it. Still try to be gentle though. My Giles had the mod done, but I ended up ripping both gear legs right through the sides of the fuse on a pretty decent landing. The Katana is strengthened in the fuse gear area though, so it's been good so far.......

[drstillpatient]

The landing gear is really bad in this plane, one of the legs would slide back up in the fuse on normal landings even after i tried various glues to keep it stuck in place. Then one of the legs broke. Someone on another forum replaced the landing gear with conventional CF gear from graph-tech. I replaced mine with the conventional CF gear available for the Sebart Katana 120e. I saved close to 100g with this alteration and it supports the lightweight 6S setup well even in harrier landings. for 10S you may need the thicker graph-tech gear.

[kwiktsi]

The landing gear is really bad in this plane, one of the legs would slide back up in the fuse on normal landings even after i tried various glues to keep it stuck in place. Then one of the legs broke. Someone on another forum replaced the landing gear with conventional CF gear from graph-tech. I replaced mine with the conventional CF gear available for the Sebart Katana 120e. I saved close to 100g with this alteration and it supports the lightweight 6S setup well even in harrier landings. for 10S you may need the thicker graph-tech gear.

I'm 8s, not 10, but there is still a bunch of weight there. My packs are much heavier than I need, but it is what I have. If it flies them, great- besides, I would like the longer flight times. If I find that it flies too "heavy", then I will try lighter packs or maybe a different motor/battery combo all together and go 6s with a higher KV motor. Thanks.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

I had another question for those running more than one wing position- what are you doing about the fiberglass tube that glues to the fuse? Once that is glued in, what are you using for the second wing location? Thanks.
Joe

[G.P.]

Sorry, I glued mine in for extra strength. I did one check flight without it glued in to see if it was good, then added epoxy.

If you don't glue it they suggest screwing the donuts that support the fiberglass tube into the fuse. Since the fuse tapers as the tube moves back I didn't see a way of doing this without a lot of re-engineering.

Since you're going electric it will be way faster for you to just move your packs around for different CG's.

[kwiktsi]

Sorry, I glued mine in for extra strength. I did one check flight without it glued in to see if it was good, then added epoxy.

If you don't glue it they suggest screwing the donuts that support the fiberglass tube into the fuse. Since the fuse tapers as the tube moves back I didn't see a way of doing this without a lot of re-engineering.

Since you're going electric it will be way faster for you to just move your packs around for different CG's.

Yeah, it made no sense to me how to reliably move it around. Best thing I could think of would be a second set of rings (donuts) and tube. I agree, moving the packs would be best. I am just concerned with if this setup proves to fly heavier than I would like and I swap it all out for a smaller motor on lighter 6S packs- then it would be very hard to get enough weight moved forward to compensate.

[drstillpatient]

I've been thinking about this too. The manual says to have a maximum of 4 different wing positions so there was no way the donuts and fiber tube would work. I flew the plane for a year without the tube and just recently glued it in. I guess the tube really isnt required unless you have finalized one final wing position.

[kwiktsi]

I've been thinking about this too. The manual says to have a maximum of 4 different wing positions so there was no way the donuts and fiber tube would work. I flew the plane for a year without the tube and just recently glued it in. I guess the tube really isnt required unless you have finalized one final wing position.

Hmm, so maybe I will leave it out for the time being just until I know how it flies with the heavy packs and I decide if I'm going to change the setup or not. Thanks.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

I have a question about the stock tail wheel. Looking at the instructions, it looks like the wheel just pivots freely with nothing to "lock" it to the piece that attaches to the rudder. Is this correct, or am I missing something? Thanks.
Joe

[G.P.]

I'll have to take a look at mine tomorrow, but it doesn't pivot freely.

[kwiktsi]

Mine has nothing to "lock" it to the control horn that goes to the bottom of the rudder, it just rotates freely in that whole bracket. I was thinking of bending the wire 90* towards the rudder and drilling a hole in the rudder to push it into so it turns the wheel that way, but want to know what others have done first.

Mine is a tail wheel, the wire (wheel axle/spring), tail wheel bracket, tail wheel control linkage that screws to the bottom of the rudder with one screw and two wheel collars- one to hold the wheel on and the other to hold the tail wheel wire into the bracket. Nothing else to it. I'm stumped. Even the pictures in the manual (that is on the disc that came with it) show it just rotating freely. Let me know what you find on yours. Thanks.
Joe

[G.P.]

Hopefully these will help you out. From what I remember I cut the tailwheel wire to length, and filed a flat spot so that the set screw (one of those wheel collars sits inside of the control arm I think) had something to bite against. It's been trouble free so far.

[kwiktsi]

OK, I see now. The instructions for mine said nothing about using the longer allen screw to lock it to the control arm. Just showed pics of it flopping in the breeze. I actually did try the allen screw, but the hole in the control arm was too small and it was close to the edge, so it cracked when I tried to open it up some :(. I can use the allen screw like you did still, but with the top of the hole being cracked in that control arm piece, I don't know how well it will hold up.

I was thinking of just leaving the wheel floating like this to see how it works. It pivots easily and should turn freely to change direction. I'll play with it a bit. Thanks!
Joe

[G.P.]

I don't think that I just went into the plastic, I think I put one of the wheel collars in there if I remember correctly. It's hard to tell now that it's all together. I probably didn't follow the directions though. I usually just wing it!

I have some smaller electrics that I just have swivelling tail wheels on. It works fine on them. I even have one where the tailwheel doesn't turn at all and it works fine too. I just have to play with the elevator to increase or decrease the pressure on the tailwheel when I want to make a sharp turn.

If all else fails go with a sullivan tailwheel bracket (the 12lb one I think). They are cheap and work great.

[kwiktsi]

I don't think that I just went into the plastic, I think I put one of the wheel collars in there if I remember correctly. It's hard to tell now that it's all together. I probably didn't follow the directions though. I usually just wing it!

I have some smaller electrics that I just have swivelling tail wheels on. It works fine on them. I even have one where the tailwheel doesn't turn at all and it works fine too. I just have to play with the elevator to increase or decrease the pressure on the tailwheel when I want to make a sharp turn.

If all else fails go with a sullivan tailwheel bracket (the 12lb one I think). They are cheap and work great.
Yeah, It goes through the bracket, through the linkage arm and then a collar slides down into the arm to hold it together. There is no real way to lock this collar to the arm. You used the allen screw through the arm and into the collar, which works fine but when I tried to open the hole in the arm for the screw to fit, it cracked.

I think it was really supposed to be free to rotate. Probably would have worked fine like that, but I just re-assembled it with the collar and filled the arm around it with JB-Weld to lock it together. We'll see if that works. If not, I'll just get the Sullivan wheel for it. Thanks.
Joe

***EDIT- just looked up the Sullivan wheel and they have an S860 for 5-12# and an S861 for 10-22#. I'm assuming you were talking about the 10-22# one? I wish they had overall measurements and weight for them listed.

[G.P.]

Sorry, yes I use the 10 - 22lb size on planes this big. On the Tower Hobby site they say that size is for 60 to 1/4 scale airplanes. It is about the same size as the one that comes with the kit.

[kwiktsi]

Thank you for all your help, G.P. I actually cleaned the JB weld out before it dried and figured I'd just try it swiveling. I'll probably end up ordering the Sullivan from Tower. Hopefully it's no heavier than this one.

Hoping to maiden it today. It came out a little heavier than planned, but it feels like it has plenty of thrust. I'll give it a shot, then make changes from there if needed. I'll report back after the maiden! Thanks again.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Ouch, I just weighed the final assembly- 10# 13oz!!! I'm going to try it as is, but have a feeling I'll be changing some things on it. I can save ~9oz with lighter packs and then remove the wheel pants as well and try to get it to 10 flat or less. I just like the looks of the wheel pants on it :(.

[G.P.]

I bet it will still fly pretty light, especially if you're used to glow or gas planes. The guys at our fun fly today could not believe how my electrics would just float around. I think a few of them are that much closer to making the jump to electrics now.

[kwiktsi]

I bet it will still fly pretty light, especially if you're used to glow or gas planes. The guys at our fun fly today could not believe how my electrics would just float around. I think a few of them are that much closer to making the jump to electrics now.

Actually, I'm used to electrics with ridiculous power to weight ratios :). Made the switch years ago! I just hope it will 3d OK.

[kwiktsi]

OK, just got back from flying it. So far, it is "meh". Flies nicely, but "feels" underpowered. It is 1/2 throttle plus for the whole flight- BUT has decent punch from there up. Vertical is very strong considering how underpowered it "feels". May just be the throttle curve on my ESC, who knows. I am going to hook it up to my meter and see what it is drawing as it is and maybe prop up if possible. It has a 20x10 now, maybe a 20x12 or even 21".

Bad news is I broke a landing gear leg on my second landing (there's a surprise lol). First landing greased right in, second was a *little* rougher but hardly "too rough" and it snapped right under. I have to figure something out. I was thinking the cheapest would be just some heavy piano wire shoved through these legs, but probably be heavy and I don't know how strong it will be against bending. The carbon gear is nice, but damn near 1/3 the price of the whole plane :(.

[G.P.]

What esc are you using? I have to add a curve to my Castle's or they feel like what you described.

I haven't heard of anyone having much luck with the piano wire on the giles. Guess I've just been lucky so far, but I really do baby the gear. I really don't like the cost of a carbon set, but I am getting tired of always worrying about it.

So how did it fly other than that? Coupling? Stall? Did it feel pretty light with those packs?

Glad you got her back down safely!

[kwiktsi]

What esc are you using? I have to add a curve to my Castle's or they feel like what you described.

I haven't heard of anyone having much luck with the piano wire on the giles. Guess I've just been lucky so far, but I really do baby the gear. I really don't like the cost of a carbon set, but I am getting tired of always worrying about it.

So how did it fly other than that? Coupling? Stall? Did it feel pretty light with those packs?

Glad you got her back down safely!

I am running a Turnigy Sentilon 100A (http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4691). My Hackers in my other planes feel fine, as do my Jettis. I don't know if it is the controller or just that the motor itself is a bit under propped. I'll get the meter on it first to see how many amps it draws, then take it from there. I was thinking earlier of programming a throttle curve to improve it if needed.

Sucks about the gear- I really didn't land all that hard, I can't believe it broke that easily. I was fighting a pretty good (15-20mph winds today) wind, so it was getting bounced a bit but nothing that had me worried it was going to break!

Other than that, it flew well. It did fly lighter than I thought it would at this weight, though it was hard to tell for sure with it "feeling" underpowered at lower throttle like it did. Inverted flat spins were so slow and smooth if you wanted them to be. KE flight required a good bit of coupling, especially on the elevator, but I did have my CG a bit forward for the maiden, so I'm not going to mess with mixes or anything until I get the CG situated.

Overall, for the $159 I paid for it (plus $40 shipping), it is well worth it for the awe factor alone :).
Joe

[drstillpatient]

Yeah, It goes through the bracket, through the linkage arm and then a collar slides down into the arm to hold it together. There is no real way to lock this collar to the arm. You used the allen screw through the arm and into the collar, which works fine but when I tried to open the hole in the arm for the screw to fit, it cracked.


lol, exact same thing happened to me, the plastic cracked. So i did what you wrote up there, i bent the wire at 90 degrees, drilled a hole at the bottom of the rudder, used CA to harden the hole and once dry i installed the tail wheel. It has been trouble free so far.

[kwiktsi]

lol, exact same thing happened to me, the plastic cracked. So i did what you wrote up there, i bent the wire at 90 degrees, drilled a hole at the bottom of the rudder, used CA to harden the hole and once dry i installed the tail wheel. It has been trouble free so far.

I actually ended up just cutting the wire and using it as a caster style tail wheel. Actually worked pretty good at the field yesterday. A little squirrely in the tail, but controllable.

[kwiktsi]

Ugh, did a bone head thing yesterday (seems to happen to me a lot lately :( ).... I was setting the plane up for flight and a couple people at the field just kept talking and bugging me (somehow I turned into the go-to guy for ANY question anyone has and while I try to help when I can, it gets annoying paying the sitter to spend 4 hours at the field only to fly 2 or 3 times due to all the questions...).

Anyhow, I put the plane together and in a rush to just get away from everyone, I grabbed it, set it on the ground and then taxied out to fly it while walking away towards the field. Never did a control check, which I ALWAYS do. Accelerated and the second the plane took to the air, it started to roll. Countered it with opposite aileron and got that sickening realization that I never plugged the ailerons in!!!

Ended up catching a wing tip, crushing that and breaking the fuse in half along with cracking both of the extensions on the wing (can't remember the name- the pieces that give it the "katana" wing look lol). It is repairable and will be done in the next week or so, but still not how I wanted my day at the field to go.

I like helping others, but it is REALLY getting annoying with everyone picking my brain the whole time I am there :(. Heck, a couple of the guys will stand there and either talk a mile a minute or ask a million questions while I am trying to harrier around the field or hover 2' off the ground with no concept of what they are doing. "wow- that is amazing, that must be hard. You must have to really concentrate on that, huh?"- the WHOLE TIME!! Jeesh.. It's to the point where I am ready to give up on flying only because of the morons that go there!

One of them, an older guy (about 83), is such a danger to even be around when he is flying. He doesn't fly- he just pulls out of uncontrolled dives while trying to fly in circles around the field. Literally should not be flying any more... A couple of days ago, I had my 9 month old with me in his baby seat sitting on the bench. This guy, just flying in circles, LOSES CONTROL- WHILE FLYING IN @$%*& CIRCLES- comes across the field and into the parking area, hits the handle to my sons baby seat (if I didn't have the handle up, it would have been VERY bad!!), bounces off that and hits my new grand cherokee... Now, I am the type to be happy for this guy doing what he enjoys, but he is downright too dangerous to fly.. If he had hurt my son, 83 or not, there would have been a problem!! It is a good thing the handle was up to block the plane from hitting him. I saw the whole thing happen and the plane was flying so straight and steady for about 150' while it was headed for the seat, but he still did not have the reaction to turn it in that amount of time.. Downright dangerous!

Oh well, sorry for the rant.. It's just getting frustrating- this is the same guy that was talking to me, asking a million questions about what would make the heat shrink melt off his ESC (same thing he asked last week and I told him what he needed to do after putting it on a meter!!!) while I was setting up the Kat, and the same guy that distracted me when I stuffed my first 3DHS 55" SHP because he thought it was "going to break flying it like that"... My wife tells me to not even bother stopping if this guy is there, but my flight time is very limited- if I drive the 20 mins to the field- I am flying damn it!

[G.P.]

Man, that blows. I quit taking my kids to the field for the exact same reason as you. I'm lucky that I work nights though, because I can have the field to myself during the day. The weekends and funflys are exactly like you described though. It's a pain helping people, but I try to do it. When it's time for me to set up my planes or fly I ignore everyone though. It may be rude, but it's safer. I just politely tell them that I need to consentrate on what I'm doing and start ignoring anything after that.

Hope you get her back in the air!

[kwiktsi]

Yeah, my wife says I'm too nice and I need to just tell them I can't talk right now. I feel bad doing that because I am helpful by nature, but it is to the point where it has cost ME several hundred dollars already this year due to the distractions. Shoot, both times I had crashed due to distractions, the guy who was distracting me had the nerve to say "if you're only going to throw it out anyway, just give it to me"- I'd rather burn it in front of them at that point!

At our field, the best time to go in order to avoid this crap is on Sunday- that is when the pros are there ("Jersey" Jim Martin is one of our local pilots), so all the other morons don't come around. Only thing with that is during the week I am the best pilot there- Sunday is a brutal reminder of just how much more I need to practice lol.

The cat will be fixed shortly. It's really not bad at all, but it is bad enough that I'm not in the mood to deal with it right this second. Probably start on it during the week.
Joe

[sneasle]

How'd the repair go?