Warning! ClearView does not work on Vista

[Bellman]

Downloaded the trial version of Clearview for my Vista machine. It was a bit wobbly but I thought that was because it was a trial version.

When I bought the licence and unlocked it there were obviously major issues. It takes around 15 minutes to start and invariably crashes after 2 to 3 minutes. The screen goes blank and you get that nasty 'I'm written in Java" feel.

I was told to update my drivers by their support person and then was told to reinstall the software and drivers.

Now i'm locked out cos my licence wont work.

Ive tried the trial version on my wifes laptop which has XP, this works but at around 9 fps.

I tried installing it on my XP work station and I get an error message saying that windows vista drivers are not supported??

HAve I bought a duffer here? Anyone else having the same problems with this software?

[helo36]

Before you rant and rave.....did you go to the clearview site and read the instructions for installation on Vista? Also which Vista do you have 32 or 64 bit?...Did you bother to email Tech support?..these things should be considered before you complain about ANY program. Did you bother to look on the Cleaview threads and search before posting?....If handled in the proper fashion..I'm sure your problem will be resolved. On your wifes computer it is using onboard video due to being a laptop and is probably running with 8-32 meg ram for video if that....that is the reason why you get only 9 fps. As far as your XP machine using vista driver...Clearview does not use drivers for installation..so I'm not clear what drivers you are trying to install. I have run CV on as little as a 1 gig Athlon, 512 memory, 128 meg video....On this machine.. it is a Athlon 64 X2 6000, 4 gig memory, 512 meg video...both machines are XP Pro...On the better machine I get 900-1300 fps on the electrics and on the other machine I get 80-200 fps.

Ken

[Bellman]

Wow Helo you've been a big help. Thanks to you it works now. NOT!

"Before you rant and rave.....did you go to the clearview site and read the instructions for installation on Vista?"
Yep i'm not a TOTAL ahole.

"these things should be considered before you complain about ANY program."
I see, are you the complaint police? Do I need your permission first? You are so wise!

"Did you bother to email Tech support?.."
Duhhhh. You mean the bog standard "Udate your driver" automated response?. Yep, got that five times, you wanna see?

"Did you bother to look on the Cleaview threads and search before posting?...."
Yess. I did, my god you must be clairvoyant!! How do you know all this!

I'm very happy for you that Clearview works on your machine. Go fly it instead of 'helping' me.

Now all this "did you bother to' takes time you know. Software should just work! If not it should be clearly stated what graphics cards, machines, operating systems are fully supported. You shouldn't have to be a computer geek to get software to run!
I'm a programmer myself and would never let software go out if I knew there were going to be serious driver issues that the customer might run into. (I.e. like those with Opengl)

Now. If anyone can actually help.....


I have tried to get the program to work on 3 machines.

Machine 1
VISTA running on a laptop. HP PAvillion dv2000
945GM graphics card with latest drivers dowloaded from intel website
(The driver information says that Opengl 1.5 is supported by these drivers. I believe ClearView uses these libraries for its graphics)

Details
1Gb Ram
1.6 Ghz Processor
Have been told by CVsupport that there are issues with Intel processors and they just keep telling me to download the latest driver which I have done.

The program initially worked on my laptop, but as soon as I got the licence and started trying to change flying fields the display got progressively worse. I updated the drivers and that made things even worse. Now it refuses to start.

Heli-x which i believe also uses opengl 1.5 works fine on this machine.


Machine 2
Have tried CV on a Compaq running XP (fully up to date), Program runs at 9 fps. It bump jumps and jitters.

Machine 3
Tried the program on my Desktop machine which has XP (fully up to date) installed.It has has a newish G Force something or other Graphics card. As I said before, when you try to run it an error message comes up about VISTA. I'm told to update the lastest VISTA drivers. And no, im not lying.

At this point i've given up. If anyone has had the same problems i'd be really grateful for your advice. As I said, CleavView just tell me monotonously to update my drivers.

It may be that ClearView wont work on a HP Pavillion dv2000 with an Intel 945GM graphics card.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Please, Helo and Kitz dont bother responding, you are clearly in cahoots together.

[skirtz]

>I'm a programmer myself and would never let software go out if I knew there were going to be serious driver issues that the customer might run into. (I.e. like those with Opengl)

You have Intel chipset that is the worst of the worst. If you are "programmer" you should know that. You acknowledge that ClearView initially worked, but you got problems after activated - this is because you do not have real video card and your chipset can't run more complex models or scenes. So you will be able to run some scenes and models and you will not be able to run some. This is purelly limitation to your computer and lack of proper video card. You do not care to have proper video card or driver but want top notch performance - so why do you think people pay $200-$500 for video card only? ClearView requires basic video card that can be purchased online for less than $50 and from all simulators have the most basic requirements and run on most computers/video card combinations.

And what exactly in your background "as programmer" makes you qualified to state that ClearView does not run on Vista? What is your proof ? How do you know that your computer is without any problems, that the chipset is fine, that it is set properly and the driver is properly installed? Or... you just think so?


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[skirtz]

Here is an article that provides a peek at how Microsoft certified as "Vista Ready" the Intel chpsets that where found by Microsoft as clearly inferior and basically incapable to run Vista:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9882376-37.html?hhTest=1

Here is (accoring to the article above) what the Microsoft vice president Sinofsky (head of Windows development) wrote:

citation:
------------------------------------------------------------
Sinofsky launched into a post-mortem on Vista itself, with this graph pertaining to Intel.

"Intel has the biggest challenge. Their "945" chipset which is the baseline Vista set "barely" works right now and is very broadly used. The "915" chipset which is not Aero capable is in a huge number of laptops and was tagged as "Vista Capable" but not Vista Premium. I don't know if this was a good call. But these function will never be great. Even the 945 set has new builds of drivers coming out consistently but hopes are on the next chipset rather than this one."

---------------------------------------------------------------

So, let see now:
- The biggest software company (Microsoft) and the biggest processor company (Intel) sold you computer that they knew that "barelly works" and you complain that my program is the problem?


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[helo36]

Well Before I ignore your great response...this statement is quite obvious that you are really an intelligent person-
"Discussion - Warning! ClearView does not work on Vista " when in fact if it did not there wouldn not be any instructions available...on how to install on a vista machine. It is obvious tome that all you wanted to do was waste everyones time because your equipment is inferior...I could go on..but it is useless in this case..because obvisously you know everything!! and BTW "Yep i'm not a TOTAL ahole" ....yes I Think everyone can tell by your response

You are obviously more knowlegable than I am at software...so I will just say CYA and good luck...

Geez and people wonder why sometimes I get upset at some of these posts ....People here is a perfect example of why..it's these kind of responses that will drive people like me who help others and do make models for sims disappear.....And yes...I stand by Clearview..I've made and converted over 100 models for this sim over past 2 years...and they are available for free...Also FYI..I have been a Certified Systems Builder since 1994...I have my own computer shop since 1999...so I do know quite a bit about hardware...

Ken

[Malc C]

Ken I have to agree with you, rather than actually asking for help, ranting on and replying with sarcastic comments isn't the best way he will get advice, especially from the chap who developed CV and has always tried to resolve peoples issues via this board and probably loads more privately. - This approach simply gets peoples backs up.

@Bellman. There are loads of applications that have issues with Vista, and there are loads of hardware devices which have issues supporting firmware / drivers under vista. If you have indeed browsed through the threads as you say you have, then you'll know that on some machines with one flavor of chipset on the mobo things work, whilst on others with different chipsets it won't. I can't tell you what you need to do to resolve this with your particular hardware, and I can understand your frustration, but to post in such a way IMO was the wrong approach.

[Bellman]

I have asked for this post to be removed.

[Malc C]

Bellman, I wouldn't say your PC's rubbish, in terms of processor speed etc it should be fine for running CV. If the compaq / HP machinces have the option to turn off the embedded graphics, then do so and try a cheap ATI card such as 9250 - 128MB should be fine. The outlay should be less than £25 and it may resolve your problem ?

[Bellman]

Thanks Malc C for your response.

Am look at trying to turn off the embedded graphics.

Will also look into seeing what cards will suit my Laptop.

I've asked the mediators to remove this thread. I didnt mean it to be so negative but I was fed up with the lack of support I was getting.

Thanks for your time and help.

[flyx]

Why in the world would you want people the take thier PC apart just
to run a software...be it sims or whatever.

Yes I can appriciate that there's veriosue OS and Vedio card, sound card
combo from veriouse PC manufacturers.
It's a duanting task for a software developer to try to cover all the
bases.

That's why there's DEMOs..so you'll know if it'll work on your set up. :p

And I'm fully aware the Clearview had been up grading and tryng
to improve it's product.


However...I'm posistive there's clictch in the software or veriosns.
My PC runs fine on the older version and it crashes on the new version.
I don't get any texture on the models.
There's also another major clictch if you really wanna know.
The demo version time gets reset on my PC for some strange
reason.

I'm using Vista and I see little black flashing line where the skybox
texture meets...no matter what version.
Probably my card.

okay..to take other things into considerations.

The G4 runs perfect on my PC...So why in the hell would I want
to go out and spend more money on a card...which I really can't do
without doing major surgery to my laptop...just to run Clearview.

By the time I do that...get a new card, TX, and software.
It'll cost just the same to get another sim such as G4, Phoenix or Aerofly
and saves me headaches.

[Malc C]

Thanks Malc C for your response.

Am look at trying to turn off the embedded graphics.

Will also look into seeing what cards will suit my Laptop.

I've asked the mediators to remove this thread. I didnt mean it to be so negative but I was fed up with the lack of support I was getting.

Thanks for your time and help.

No problem,

You'll find it hard to upgrade the laptop - laptops simply are not built to be upgraded in such a way, but the desktop should be fine. However as Flyx pointed out you may spend cash to upgrade the card and still find issues or some other conflict, and purchasing a different simulator may work fine.

Oh and look in the BIOS to disable onboard options such as sound / graphics etc (I think Dell / HP use F12 but it might be the standard del key on boot )

[Bellman]

Good points FlyX.

For the record, I did try the Demo and it worked OK. The problems occured after licencing when I tried to change Landscapes and aircraft. I didn't try this in demo mode, was too busy enjoying myself.

If anyone else is reading this, ClearView is VERY good. Outstanding value for money and definately worth a try in my opinion. Just be sure it works in Demo fully on your Vista machine.

Yeah Malc C, the laptop's got an integrated graphics card I now realise. I chose it so I shouldn't complain. I could get a breakout box and install the card in that but the whole point was to be able to run software on my laptop and but it sort of defeats the purpose.

For the amount of time and effort i've (tens on hours) I should have just bought G4 or Reflex from my model shop and not been a tight ****.


I'll have a fiddle with Heli-x (which works great on my machine) and work out what I want and dont want. Or I might just buy that Blade 400 and get out in the fresh air :)

[IPFlyer]

Have you actually tried Gn or Reflexx on a laptop with a crappy integrated vid card?

[flyx]

You can get a demo for Reflex...it'll run just like Realflight.
Keyboard controls only.

It works fine with my Vista LT with a boarder line card.
You have options of changing the scenery's texture size
with a click of a bottom becuase the sceneries are mapped
as a sphere in Reflex.
But good god...you thought Realfight was expensive.

Heli-x works okay with the same LT. It drives the heck
out of it thou. The fan kicks on within a minute.
I can run it at full screen (70 fps) with a little bit of tweeking of the nvidia.
No smoking or buffer zones. You can installed objects, if you want,
but it's going to take a lot more than 2 hours .lol...Just like FMS
it'll look just as purdy as the rest of the sims as far as photolistic
sceneries but you have to know what's up.

FMS will flicker or have flashing screen with this same card.

Aerofly and the Gn works perfect on the same LT.
What will cause it to stick is too much smokes. You can adjust the
smoke quality or size to get around that.

Smoke or streamer are 3D objects that constantly gets generated
which will drive the heck out of a card. I have the same problem
running Clearview if i select too much smoke on this 128MB card.

$40 for Clearview is a fair price.

[Bellman]

Yep, have a copy of reflex and the demo works fine on this machine. Although what it would be like out of demo i dont know.

I just downloaded G4 demo for my machine. Im getting about 80 fps.
I think the graphics on clear view are far superior.

I like the little window in g4 that shows you the close up orientation of the aircraft.

The models in g4 dont seem as well detailed and it doesn;t feel as realistic as ClearView.
The G4 demo chopper doesnt 'feel' as good as the ones in CV either.

Does G4 get better in full version?

[swatson144]

That's funny that it just won't run in Vista. It runs fine on my vista machine. Matter of fact it has never locked up once. Sorry it doesn't run on yours but I'd say it was more of a computer than software issue.

Lack of support? each of my questions and lost license was addressed amazingly promptly.

Great SIM, excellent service, at a cut rate price.

Steve

[247rememberme]

jees!!!you guys should try to chill out a little.it`s only a sim for christs sake

[swatson144]

And 5 months later we get that pearl of wisdom :eek:


Steve

[Deflord]

Just downloaded the trial version - running it off Vista Business 64 bit and runs like a beauty!

OfC ran it off keyboard - (I need to get a controller) but it runs awesome.