Homemade Hulls?

[Michael Pardy]

Hi there. I've been wondering. Is it possible to build your own hulls out of thin plywood or something? :rolleyes: The idea has come across my mind and i have also seen a website of someone who built a Pushtug hull out of plywood. Are there any popular plans of hulls which i could print off or copy?
The hull shape im sort of interested in is a pushtug shape. Square and box like. Not a planing race boat as i am wanting to fit my setup of a 400 brushed motor :p
Please help as i am idea-less :(

Michael

[woodybob]

Howdy… start here. (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522762) Plenty of push tugs to meet your criteria.

[Michael Pardy]

Woah, thanks alot. This certainly helps! I know have an idea of what shape the hull is. What sort of wood would you recomend to use for the hull? In some of the pics it looks like they've used 10mm Pine or something. I've got a large sheet of 5mm Plywood in the shed, do you think this will come in handy?

Michael

[Massey]

I would use some 1/4" Bass or another hard type wood for the sides and a thinner maybe 2-3mm ply for the underside of the hull and 4-5mm for the deck and what ever else you are going to build. The deck could even be thinner than that. Building materials are of your choosing in the springer class just the hull shape is regulated.

Massey

[Michael Pardy]

Ive just drawn up a plane of what shape it will be and where the radio gear will sit. Im definatly alot more confident now i can see it in 1:1 scale so building should start soon.

The hull is 14" long and the deepest part is 3 1/2", however i might make it around 4 1/2" as the water level is about 2" from the top of the hull. The long thin rectangle above the hull drawing is the deck, the section in the centre with all the little lines is the hole in which i can reach the electronics. Feel free to comment on good and bad things. All is helpful! :D

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030265.jpg

Hope it looks alright. I don't wanna be making a hull which is badly designed :(

Michael

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Welcome to RCgroups.

The hull is nice. It's not a Springer, but it should serve you well.

The one thing you should consider adjusting is the propeller shaft angle.
Make the propeller and shaft as flat as possible.
These short tugs have a tendancy to "dive" at the nose because of their shape.
The angle you have shown your propeller shaft will increase this "dive", and
ship a lot of water over the bow. It will also suck the back end down in
reverse. That minor adjustment aside, you have a good start on your design.

:)

[toesup]

Feel free to comment on good and bad things. All is helpful! :D

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030265.jpg



A couple of points on your drawing.

1/ Get the prop shaft in a direct line between the (angled) motor and the prop. Having that angle on the U joint will cause noise and wear. Also try to get the motor lower in the hull.
2/ You show the battery in the bow. Have a pair of batteries (SLA's?) either side of the motor. More weight and longer running time. Also, get these down lower in the hull.
3/ You dont need the ESC, Rx and Servo quite so high in the hull, but keep them off of the bottom in case you get some water in the hull.
4/ Your coaming on the deck needs to be higher, make it at least an inch to keep out the water.

Have a look at some of the Springer builds and follow the way they have done it. It will help your build a lot ;)

[Michael Pardy]

Oh right, Thats a useful thing to know :P Im glad you mentioned it cos it would've come as a surprise if i hadn't know.
What exactly makes a hull a 'springer' class hull? I was just wondering as the hull I had drawn was what i thought the shape of a springer hull.

Michael

[toesup]

What exactly makes a hull a 'springer' class hull? I was just wondering as the hull I had drawn was what i thought the shape of a springer hull.


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=843734
Is a Springer hull... ;)

[Michael Pardy]

The setup I currently have is a 400 brushed motor running with a 7.2v 5500mah battery back. Would this not make it a Springer even if it had the same hull shape as other Springers?

[toesup]

The setup I currently have is a 400 brushed motor running with a 7.2v 5500mah battery back. Would this not make it a Springer even if it had the same hull shape as other Springers?

The motor would probably 'just' about do..
The battery pack is too light, with that you would need about 3lb of lead to get your boat down to the waterline... thats why the twin SLA's

[Michael Pardy]

Oh right. I see..............Fortunatly i've found loads of lead fishing ledgers for sea fishing and have managed to find about 6lb which i guess will reduce the height of the water line.

[Michael Pardy]

I've just found these SLA's. What one is best? All the numbers are confusing me a little :confused:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?menuno=84169&FromMenu=y&doy=2m7&MenuName=Sealed%20Lead-acid%20Batteries

[toesup]

Try
http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/lead-acid.html
(thats if you are in GB?)

Either (2x) 6v 4ha or 6v 5ah

[Sakura Maru]

Mike,
Welcome to boat building. Feel free to take a look at my tinkering with hulls. You're getting some good advice here from the others.

[towboatjoe]

Here's an easy little single screw suitable for 1:12 scale

[woodybob]

Here's an easy little single screw suitable for 1:12 scale

Not a Springer, but it is square. Just go through the Springer pictures & ALL the PDF's, and your bound to find something you like. Once the hull is Springered, the topside options are limitless. Oh yea, you need to post pictures. It is required. :)

[Reckless]

definately listen to these guys ;)

but also remeber that part of the spirit of the springer is to use what you have ... my springer has a 540 with a gear drive... runs 4 7.2 batt packs (I have a 5th I will prolly add.. but I'll see once my remodel is done and it's back in water for testing) the original builder set it up this way cause that's what he had.. and it works well so I'm just leaving it.. just making it "mine" with some additions

becareful going through the springer thread... especially if your new.. your head might explode ... ;)

[Michael Pardy]

Mike,
Welcome to boat building. Feel free to take a look at my tinkering with hulls. You're getting some good advice here from the others.

The third imagine of the square hull looks very good. I may try building something very similar as all i have in my shed is a sheet of 3mm ply which i don't want to risk breaking if i try bending it round the bottom of the hull to create 'the springer' hull.

[Michael Pardy]

definately listen to these guys ;)

but also remeber that part of the spirit of the springer is to use what you have ... my springer has a 540 with a gear drive... runs 4 7.2 batt packs (I have a 5th I will prolly add.. but I'll see once my remodel is done and it's back in water for testing) the original builder set it up this way cause that's what he had.. and it works well so I'm just leaving it.. just making it "mine" with some additions

becareful going through the springer thread... especially if your new.. your head might explode ... ;)

I'm gunna be using one 7.2v battery pack to run my 400 brushed motor as well....I can't keep buying new stuff to make it to a requirement. I will just have to use what i've got. I guess its more interesting having a building project which contains new electronics or anything. If the electronics don't weigh the hull down enough i'll just put some old fishing ledgers in. Each one weighs about 1/2 lb.

I will certainly post pics of this project! :D

[towboatjoe]

I designed a couple of single screw boats for water games back in 1995. The St. Louis Admirals have several of them and since they were built with the same motors and props the boats were all equal so it came down to the pilot's ability (or luck). It was a lot of fun. Here's a polotug and a Ramboat.

[mfr02]

All the numbers are confusing me a little
number V is the nominal charged voltage of the battery.
number AH is the capacity of the battery - sort of how many gallons if it was a fuel tank. The higher the number the bigger and heavier the battery, but the more it will store. Further looking at the Maplin cataloguge should give dimensions and weights for the various sizes.
Batteries are the best ballast - you get work out of them.

[Michael Pardy]

I designed a couple of single screw boats for water games back in 1995. The St. Louis Admirals have several of them and since they were built with the same motors and props the boats were all equal so it came down to the pilot's ability (or luck). It was a lot of fun. Here's a polotug and a Ramboat.

Do you have any planes of them? They look fantastic! :eek:

Michael

[Michael Pardy]

Heres another plan I drew up. I know its not the shape of a springer but its an easier design. Also Im only really wanting a look a-like springer, square hull and a tower like control thingy :p
This design is also quite strong as its made out of 10mm pine apart from the bottom which is 3mm Plywood.
I would prefer to use Plywood but what design would be strong if i used 3mm Plywood for everything?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030268.jpg

[towboatjoe]

Do you have any planes of them? They look fantastic! :eek:

Michael
Here's drawings for the polotug and ramboat

[Michael Pardy]

Hello. Just got back from my local Hobby Shop. Bought 5 sheets of 1/8" balsa, some sanding sealer, UHU hart balsa cement and some 5 minute Epoxy.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030271.jpg

BUILDING COMMENCES! woo! lol

This is my plan I have decided to stick with. Its a full size drawing of the '86' boat built by towboatjoe. I much appreciate your help joe and thanks for the plans.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030273.jpg

Please comment on my work on building this hull. It will be much appreciated. This is also the first hull i've ever built so well...........i hope it goes well! :)

[Michael Pardy]

This is a pic of the sides, front and rear cut out. It isn't glued yet, instead i got propped it up.
Its come to my thoughts that this is quite a large hull :p
I will post more pic's this evening once the glue has dried. :)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030274.jpg

[Sakura Maru]

Way to go, Mike! You're off to a good start. I would like to point out on the plan you've adopted that people have moved on from 7.2 V battery sticks. If you want longer running times and a little more ballast, go buy a 6V 4.5 amp SLA battery at the local Lowes or Home Depot. You'll be running for a good hour or more (with two in series longer!). They're in the emergency lighting section.

One thing you'll find with hulls is that it takes quite a bit of weight to get down to your desired waterline, more so with flat displacement hulls.

When you get to the drive line, you can either buy a shaft /stuffing tube or make your own. If you make your own, PM me and I'll show you how. If going store bought, I suggest that you purchase one with a 4mm drive shaft and a 45MM three blade prop. An inexpensive U-joint can be had from any hobby store with Traxxas boat parts. The U-joint for the Villain is $3.00, and its 4mm. I also recommend the shaft / tube for the Villain. The shaft, tube, and 4mm bushings for just $4.00! Aristocraft (polks' hobbies) has an excellent speed controller for $20.00 and motors even cheaper. I enjoy boating, but it can get pricey. So if I can make it, convert or adapt other items cheaply, I do it. I'm still making a belt drive from an ink cartridge cover!

[towboatjoe]

Michael, when you start to glue up the hull glue some 1/2" balsa blocks in the corners. It not only strenghtens the corners, but you can sand into it to round off the corners.

Here are some photos of a Dravo RAM boat. You can see how the corners are rounded on the Mr Smitty.

[arrow5]

Hi Michael, I presume your aeromodelling background dictated the use of balsa. Nice and easy to work with but you can forgot a lot of the "keep it light" techniques used in `planes. Balsa will absorb water no matter how well you seal it. I built all half-dozen Springers using wood ,some hardwood, some plywood, from old drawers and other domestic scrap from the Council skips. The only model shop wood I`ve used is 1/16th ply for the curved bottom (not applicable in your design) Money saved goes into other LHS items like motors(Maplin £6 for a 540 6v, also 6 or 12 volt SLA batteries) props and shafts etc. Your water pick-up should go at the 2 o`clock position if the prop turn anti-clockwise when viewed from the stern. This allows you to bring the rudder close to the propeller for maximum effect. Make sure your motor mount allows for the water-cooling coil. Exit the pipe where you can see the out-flow, not at the stern. Consider raised bulwarks all round or at the bow at least in case she tries to dive and get the decks awash, don't forget scuppers to allow any water shipped out again ! I think the 1/8th balsa might be a bit fragile for the hull sides, how about using another sheet to make it 1/4" ? Think about glassing it, messy and expensive but it will strengthen and waterproof you boat. Read some of the early posts in the Springer thread to glean some ideas and come up with your variation. Keep the pictures coming. UK sources are on the Mayhem forum. www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk Where are you located ?

[Michael Pardy]

Wow, thanks for all the great feedback :D
Thanks for the tip Joe with the blocks so that i can make to edges curved.

[Sakura] I've already got a prop. I used to have a Vladyka kit which came with one.

[Arrow5] Sticking another sheet to the side's is a idea to be taken into concideration. If I have a sheet of balsa left i will certainly use it to make to sides thicker. Also after hearing about you also making Springer hulls from thin plywood i think i'll make one after this one is completed. I've got a coffee table sized sheet of 3mm Plywood sitting in my shed :rolleyes: 'I wonder what i can use it for', lol. More Hulls!

I have just bonded both ends onto one of the sides. Once it has dried i shall stick the other side on. Then the bottom will need sticking, the electronic bays and motor mount, then sealing it all with 'Sanding Sealer'


Michael

[Michael Pardy]

Oh yeh, arrow5. I forgot :p

Im located in South West London :) Little far from USA i know! :eek: lol

[arrow5]

Michael, I`m your side of the Atlantic too , just a bit north ! Getting back to my builds, the only thin ply I use is the curved under surface of the Springer. The Sides are anything I can find from 1/2" to 5/8ths. The bow and stern usualy 3/4" pine or whatever harder wood that is in the skip (dumpster), sometimes 1/2" ply. Make it tough but keep topsides/superstructure light. As an example of the lucky finds here are some pictures of a drawer from the dump. Toeboatjoe would be happy with the laminated corners, my next Springer will incorporate rounded ends.

[boater_dave]

A few posts back were plans published for the mid river supply boat. A fellow club member built this boat from those plans. He may have adjusted the scale, though. Anyway, just adding my 2 cents.

Dave

[arrow5]

Nice one Dave, good details , tidy lay-out. There is your model Michael !!!!

[Michael Pardy]

Wow, just seen the resin filled box around the prop shaft. That has given me an idea to make the entry into the hull of the prop shaft more water tight and secure.

Update of the hull: :eek: :D

The underside is nearly finished. Will upload pics very soon. Its looking wicked apart from all the masking tape which is tempory to hold the pieces down while glueing and the sides overlapping slightly but that will all be smooth in due course! :D

[Michael Pardy]

Heres an update of my progress on the hull! :D

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030277.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030278.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030279.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030280.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030281.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030282.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030283.jpg

[Sakura Maru]

WOO HOO! Go Mikey! I think I wanna do that hull as well. I just have to finish what I got first! If you keep using balsa/ply, feel free to use thick CA glue. It'll speed things up for you.

[towboatjoe]

[QUOTE=arrow5] Balsa will absorb water no matter how well you seal it. QUOTE]

I've never had any problems with 1/8" balsa for hulls. Every hull I've built since 1980 has been strong and never became waterlogged in the least. Believe it or not, I used only Thompson's water seal for wood decks on the hull of the Midstream Delivery boat and it has never leaked. The boat is now 17 years old.

I have found a great way of fiberglassing a hull with minimal mess. Instead of going into the whole story here you can read about it at http://www.towboatjoe.com/hulls.htm
Info is about 2/3 down the page.

[Michael Pardy]

Once the superstructure inside the hull is finished I shall begin to use Sanding Sealer to seal inside the hull and outside. So far on the hull construction the materials, adhesives and sealer has only cost me £13/$20ish! Cheap! I was thinking of spending £50 on a plastic hull with wheelhouse. What sort of experience would that give me?! Its also more expensive. I think i've made a decision that in the future I will scrap build all of my boats. It seems a cheaper way! And I gain lots of experience by making the hull from a few sheets of balsa. :D
For example if I was to buy a tug made by a company which is about 12" high and 19" long Im sure it would be reaching the £100 mark. (around $180ish) The hull Im building with the wheelhouse is that dimension and the hull and part of the wheelhouse has only cost me £13 so far. I am REALLY looking forward to seeing the finished product as normally when i tried these things when i was young they'd turn out as a mash and waste of money. :p

Michael

[Sakura Maru]

Well, if you'd bought a Harbor Work Boat from Howes, modified the drive line, I think you'd still be under 60 quid. They are great boats to modify.

[Michael Pardy]

Oh cool. Im not too great at modifying at the mo :p I've just started getting into rc boating properly very recently, infact this project is only my second. My first was a plastic kit big enough for electronics so it was kinda easy to build due to experience with Airfix kits :p
I shall post more pictures tomorrow after visting the local hobby shop. Need to get a few bits :p


Michael

[toesup]

If you are already planning your second boat.. :D

http://www.shgmodels.com/acatalog/
Have a look at page's 2 / 3 / 4

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks for the link :D Im sure i'll revisit that site once this project is finished. Looks like a good kit to try out. And it requires all of the electronics I have so thats not bad :p

Michael

[mfr02]

SHG visit a lot of shows in the UK. If they are going to one in your area and you want a particular kit from them it might be worth giving them a call to make sure they take one. Show prices are usually less than "regular", and the saving in postage offsets the cost of going and getting in. Also, you get to see what other people have been getting up to and talk to the perpetrators.

[Prins Willem]

Michael, since it seems the bug has bit you hard consider finding a club in your area. Your experience here on this forum is just a taste of the camaraderie and wealth of experience you will find in a club. This is a great way to tap into a local source of knowledge and resources.

[Michael Pardy]

Oh cool. Thats worth doing then. I have never actually noticed a model boat show around my area. I guess i'll have to look out for them.

[Michael Pardy]

UPDATE! -

The prop shaft and motor mount is now in place. Some more structure needs to be fitted in the hull but its nearly ready for the Sanding Sealer :D

Heres some pics...........
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030284.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030285.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030286.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030288.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030289.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030290.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030291.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030292.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030293.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030294.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030296.jpg
If your womdering why the fan is positioned blowing at the hull its because I was cooling down the prop shaft and hull as the Epoxy was letting off quite abit of heat :p Luckily it didn't catch on fire!
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030295.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030300.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030299.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030298.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030297.jpg

[arrow5]

Coming on in leaps and bounds. A couple of points, cut slots to match those on the motor mount to let air in and push the cooling coil to the hot end, where the brushes are. I cant make out if you have any suppression fitted to the motor tags. Might be an idea to cut the yellow and blue wires and fit a pair of bullet plugs so you can remove the ESC easily. Is it too difficult to alter the motor mount to eliminate the angle as much as possible ? What is the black object on the inner end of the prop-shaft ? Is it to prevent water coming in ? Packing the tube with LIGHT grease or heavy oil is the answer, also do the rudder tube. I think it is "seal the wood week-end" then you can float her in the bath and place things for balance before finalising the fitting out. There is some space available if needed behind the motor mount bulkhead for the R/X and ESC if you needed to move battery and ideal area if you decide to go to twin SLA batteries. As many coats of sanding sealer as you can , plenty drying time `tween coats and sanding without going down to the wood again ! I like to finish the interior with a coat of matt Humbrol grey so that any water ingress is obvious, not so noticeable with gloss paint. Geez, I think I`ll build one myself ! Keep the pics coming. :)

[Sakura Maru]

For a first time boat builder ya got some mighty fine skills,
Mike. My only concern I have is that daylight I see at the bow/bottom joint. Ya might want to reinforce that area.

[Alastair_I]

Coming on nicely :D

[arrow5]

Well spotted Sakura. Balsa cement is clear and will let light shine through but I would still put a strip of glass fibre on with epoxy, or a shaped balsa section. It is looking good isnt it !

[Ghost 2501]

a piece of info here, on your rudder linkage, use a piece of terminal strip to join two lengths together

here's how I did it on Nord Icelandia.
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/2/1/2/a1933356-82-PICT0087.jpg
you now have INFINATE adjustment and no need to disassemble, tweak, reassemble. just undo two screws, tweak and reclamp. ALL my boats use that technique

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks for the feedback. Im off to the hobby shop AGAIN tomorrow to buy larger servo arms as when i did a test there was not a great amount of movement. It will turn the boat but not make it manouverable like a push tug is supposed to be :p
Oh yeh, Ghost2501, thanks for the tip. I realised having a single rod going from the servo to the rudder arm will be a pain to adjust. Thanks for the tip. I will certainly include this into the design :D
I've just finished all of the sanding sealer on the exterior and interior, 3 coats on the ouside, 2 coats inside. After basically finishing the hull now Im starting work on the wheelhouse! :) However Im not sure over two ideas on how to attach the wheelhouse to the hull. I either have the wheelhouse complete and on the main deck I construct a small little raised border around the hull opening, then the wheelhouse lifts off, OR I join the bottom level of the wheel house to the hull and have the opening on the upper deck. This will of course make the opening higher away from water splash but with a small tunnel like hole from the upper deck to the main deck it may be a little difficult to reach in the adjust and repain. I guess i could just have a fairly high raised border on the main deck. Say......1 1/2 high....... :confused:

[Ghost 2501]

best option would be put a full deck on the model, cut a hole where you want the wheelhouse to be, then build a wall inside, that acts as not only a dam against splashes that get on deck, but also they will help locate wheelhouse.

ie....I construct a small little raised border around the hull opening, then the wheelhouse lifts off

[Michael Pardy]

Sorry, didn't quite make that clear. What i meant is the hull opening meaning the hole in the deck where the wheelhouse will be.

[Ghost 2501]

doesn't need to be mega high, half an inch is ideal

[Ghost 2501]

Arrow5, that black thing on the shaft I think is a collet

[Michael Pardy]

Thats right. Its basically a collet.
Heres some more pics. I drew and cut out the main wheelhouse parts and stuck them together with masking tape, then put scrap pieces of wood to act like a deck. Its actually quite a high boat! lol. From the bottom of the hull to the tip if where the ariels will be it'll be atleast 12" :cool: . From the bottom of the hull to the roof of the wheelhouse its around 8 1/2". Can't wait until its finished. The main constructing is nearly done :eek: , then its the detail parts like windows and frames, painting it and fittings.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030304.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030303.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030304.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030307.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030310.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030311.jpg

If your wondering why the rudder is no long in the hull this is because it came out. Tomorrow i'll find a better way of holding the rudder in place instead of a plastic block with a hole through the middle. What is the best way to attach the rudder in place through the hull? :confused:

[toesup]

What is the best way to attach the rudder in place through the hull? :confused:

Looking good there Michael!...

I would find a piece of brass tube that just fits over your rudder spindle. With some grease and a reasonably tight fit, no water should be able to get up the tube in to the hull.

Also, just a suggestion, think about another bulkhead (ply) under where you plan on the towing bitts (rear deck) so the Bitts are supported and are not just glued to the balsa deck.

Keep up the excellent work!. ;)

[towboatjoe]

Thanks for the feedback. Im off to the hobby shop AGAIN tomorrow to buy larger servo arms as when i did a test there was not a great amount of movement. It will turn the boat but not make it manouverable like a push tug is supposed to be

A single screw boat won't have the turning radius a normal push boat has due to the fact the thrust from the wheel will have a tendency to push the stern to one side which will give good turning in one direction and minimal in the other. When backing it will be very noticable and will possibly only turn in one direction when backing. I had that trouble with the mid-stream delivery boat and I had flanking rudders.

The best running boat and easiest to operate had twin counter rotating wheels with two steering rudders and four flanking rudders. The motors were together on one ESC and all rudders were linked together on one servo. I used a cheap two channel Futuba radio and that boat would virtually turn in its own length foward and backward. It was the same design hull too. It was the best retrieval boat because it was easy to operate and extremely manuverable.

If you put a brass tube in for the rudder let it protrude about 1/16" and it will keep any water from cavitating up the rudder strut regardless if it has grease in it or not. It's a proven technique.

The build is looking very good. Keep on keeping on.

[Michael Pardy]

I'll have to try and get two rudders today then and some control arms so i can fit the flanking rudders. Where is the best place to put the two flanking rudders as i've never seen them, or used them before, only seen the inside of the hull in pictures.

[arrow5]

If it isnt too late try to get this type of brass blade rudder with plastic tube and tiller arms. The blade is just riveted on and can be replaced by whatever size and shape you want. Made by same people that made your water pick-up and outlet, "Radio Active" I believe. Happy shopping. ;)

[Michael Pardy]

Oh right, i had a look at them. They're about £4 each i think. Im going to my local hobby shop soon so i'll see what they have.

[towboatjoe]

Flanking rudders for this boat would be about a scale three feet apart just ahead of the wheel. They don't have to be very big. Here's a profile of the C D Wilson, Dabrimar, and Lil Bull to give you an idea.

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks for the pics. I have come across a little problem though. My prop is directly underneath the joint of the slanted part of the hull and the flat part. What if the flanking rudders went either side of the rudder? Surely that would still work?

[towboatjoe]

Here's an idea that should work for you. Install one flanking rudder on the stern rake and knotch it to stradle the shaft. That way one rudder will work efficently.Just couple them together on one servo. You will definately tell the difference especially when backing.

[Michael Pardy]

Oh cool. Thanks Joe. I'll have to find a spare rudder. How would i fit the rudder to the hull inside as the hull will be at an angle?

[towboatjoe]

I would use a piece of brass tubing as a rudder strut and drill through the hull on the inside of the vertical piece you glued in to hold the resin for the shaft stuffing box. That way you can epoxy the brass tube right against the vertical support. Make the brass tube the same height inside as for the steering rudder. You may need to make a rudder from sheet brass. It's not too hard to do. If I had the dimensions of the rake and the stuffing tube, I could knock one out for you.

[Michael Pardy]

Well what i've done for the main rudder is drill a hole the side of the brass tube, then glue a block of balsa over the hole inside the hull. Once the glue is dry i drilled throught the hull from outside and them stuff the tube through the hole in the block so that is sticked out about 3mm from the bottom. It seems to have worked very well :)
If you don't mind I would very much appreciate it if you could knock up a flanking rudder for me. Its not large as you can tell by looking at the diagram.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/FlankingRudder.jpg

If you can pm me when you've seen this i can give you my address so you can send it. Im sure a small envelope will do with abit of padding.
Thanks alot :D

[Michael Pardy]

Just done a little floatation test in my bath. IT FLOATS :D :D , it is level, doesn't tip side to side. I had to put some ledgers in the weigh it down but i had the room. Also as i have pairs of different sizes i could experiment with the position i put them. Im having to put another layer of sanding sealer inside and outside of the hull as i noticed a small amount of water came through the joint of the waterscoop, and the joining of the two bottom pieces above the propellere felt slightly damp. Everything else is absolutely fine :D The rudder turns the boat really sharp, without the flanking rudder on yet but reverse steering is expremely poor. :p Im sure it will be alot better with a flanking rudder, gratefully donated by Toeboatjoe :D Thanks again Joe!
Tomorrow Im going away until Saturday so won't be appearing on here. I'll also have the camera back so pictures will be coming. It will be looking very different from the last pictures as i've built the wheelhouse and the pushknees. I've also stuck the main deck on and made a rectangle hole in the middle stretching from the front of the wheelhouse right the way to the back of the wheelhouse.

Michael

[Ghost 2501]

steering in reverse will be poor, you only have 1 shaft

[towboatjoe]

Here's your rudder according to the measurements you gave me. I'll get it in the mail Monday. It's ready for paint and I threw in a strut just in case.

[Michael Pardy]

Oh wicked! Nice work, and thanks alot :D It looks just like the card one. Im truelly grateful for your help :)

Michael

[Michael Pardy]

Hey! I'm back from my holiday.
Its good to be home to finish the work on my boat :D
Heres some pictures from today of what its looking like. I haven't stuck the roof's of the wheelhouse together yet until i've worked out what is needing to be done next on it before i glue it all together :confused:
The whole boat in the pond is looking wicked :D
If your wondering why there is a small file going through my hull its the temporary flanking rudder :p Its the right thickness and has allowed me to get all of the steering rods and control arms in place etc etc :)
Oh yeh, and the tape round the steering rod attaching it to the klick links is only temporary aswell. Im not wanting to secure them in properly until i have the real flanking rudder instead of a file :p

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030739.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030740.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030741.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030742.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030743.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030744.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030745.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030746.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030747.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030748.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030749.jpg
Please feel free to say what you like (as long as its nice :p )All is helpful.

[towboatjoe]

The boat is looking good. I looks just like the Ram class towboat built by DRAVO in the 1950's.

You should have the rudder soon. I mailed it out last Monday. Be glad they fly the mail now instead of freighter.

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks. I'm glad it isn't leaking :p I can't wait until i come to the part of painting it and installing fittings like fenders and life rings :D
Cool. I haven't recieved it yet, it will probably be coming on Monday.

[Michael Pardy]

Hey! Just been having a think about thw windows. How exactly should I make them to hide the balsa edges and to give them a scale look?

Michael

[toesup]

Just been having a think about thw windows. How exactly should I make them to hide the balsa edges and to give them a scale look?

Either paint the edges of the wood so it looks like a frame...

or

Use some thin veneer (local timber yard) to make up some 'wood' window frames...

or

Use model railway line (just the 'I') to bend up some metal frames.

[Michael Pardy]

oh cool. I was also thinking of using shaped plastic, using a 'L' shape pieces and making up a frame, however im not sure how it would look :(

Anybody else got some good tips? :o

[Michael Pardy]

I've just been testing the boat in the bath and it appears that reverse left turns harder than reverse right. :( My flanking rudder is located about 1/2" behind the propeller and is in-line with the tip of the propeller blades. When i push right the flanking rudder goes right and i assume wouldn't be getting the thrust of the propeller against it. Is this what normally happens or is it because the flanking rudder is not in the centre of the hull? :confused:

[pompebled]

That's the propwalk effect for you, the rotation of the prop will make the boat turn in one direction, going in reverse makes that effect even more noticeable.

I use it as an 'advantage' on my single screw models to make the tightest turn in that direction.

One remark about the stuffing tube: there seems to be a piece if the shaft exposed, between the stuffing tube and the prop, it's better to add some washers, so the thrust is against the stuffing tube, instead of pushing the universal out of allignment.

And while you're at it; see if you can reduce the angle in the universal, by tilting the motor up, it will run smoother.

Very nice build BTW!

Regards, Jan.

[Michael Pardy]

I tried to change the angle of the motor but the motor mount/piece of plywood across the hull is stuck very well in. It was also the last bit of plywood i had left. If i tried ti remove the motor mount/piece of plywood theres a risk of the hull snapping as it is glued to all of the supports, base and sides with CA :o

Any more suggestions on making window frames? What materials have been good for using as windowframes. Im not really wanting to paint it as the cut outs for the windows are a little 'rough' in some places.

[arrow5]

Look around in cafes for wooden tea/coffee stirrers, they are slightly less than 2mm thick by 6mm and 14cm long. Nice white hardish wood, fine grain. These can be cut to edge the rough edges of the balsa and give surround for glazing. To save a lot of bother and smells, instead of using tissue and shrinking dope then sanding sealer over the wheelhouse and cabin, use brown wrapping paper (Post Office or corner shop) applied with slightly diluted (10% water) white wood glue. Wet paper with mix and wait for 10 minutes, brush some of mix over panel to be covered, apply brown soggy paper and smooth out with damp cloth without removing top layer of paper and allow to dry overnight . The surface will have become eggshell-like and can be painted with your choice, Humbrol recommended, matt undercoat and semi-matt finishing coat(s). This is how "Maid `o Irn" was done except in gloss Humbrol , see posts by Arrow5

[Ghost 2501]

I tried to change the angle of the motor but the motor mount/piece of plywood across the hull is stuck very well in. It was also the last bit of plywood i had left. If i tried ti remove the motor mount/piece of plywood theres a risk of the hull snapping as it is glued to all of the supports, base and sides with CA :o

Any more suggestions on making window frames? What materials have been good for using as windowframes. Im not really wanting to paint it as the cut outs for the windows are a little 'rough' in some places.

that prop angle / motor angle join doesnt look that bad.

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks for the tips arrow5. Would newspaper do just aswell? Like paper-mache? :rolleyes:

[arrow5]

Thanks for the tips arrow5. Would newspaper do just aswell? Like paper-mache? :rolleyes:
No , the brown wrapping paper has a glazed side and a rough side. Smooth side out , think of wall-papering and you get the idea. Not at all like papier mache which is reduced to pulp. Attached Springer pic was all balsa sheet like your boat. I cheated with the windows, they are just black gloss stick-on plastic. Made up for that with the brass and glazed ports. Humbrol gloss white and orange.

[Michael Pardy]

Wow, the finishing of the brown paper looks like the boat is made from plastic! lol
Did you use one piece of brownpaper for each side of did you apply strips?

[arrow5]

Yes individual panels, ie sides, front and back pieces and separate top. Funnels (up-takes/stacks) covered in one piece each. If done right you can overlap to leave a "scale" panel line where the "sheet metal" would be. The hull is 1/2" scrap ply from a skip, just many coats,(4 or 5 )of paint ( Dulux u/coat then orange Humbrol gloss) on that. Cut diagonal lines at corners of window openings and fold the middle part in to neaten-up your rough cuts.

[Michael Pardy]

Thanks for the tips arrow5. I've done a little tester on a small piece of balsa. Its quite messy but easy to work with as it neatly folts round the edges. The only problem is after dunking the pieces in the glue mix i couldn't tell which side was the glossy side :p

[arrow5]

Mark the shiny side before wetting. Show us your test piece when dry, shrinkage of the BWP will distort flat pieces.

[Michael Pardy]

Will do :D

[Michael Pardy]

Heres a picture of the piece of wood. Its not dried solid yet but you can see how its shaped around the edge of the wood :)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030764.jpg

[arrow5]

Thats the idea. If you want sharp edges a little finger shaping before it dries completely will work. Let it dry overnight and paint it again with glue mix, light sand to remove fluff etc. between coats when it is hard egg shell-like and it will be ready for any kind of paint. What glue did you use?

[Michael Pardy]

Just PVA with a tiny bit of water.

[Michael Pardy]

Hi there. Heres the sample i did with one layer of Brown Wrapping Paper and PVA diluted. These are the colours i'll be using for my hull and wheelhouse aswell as black as it covers easily, i have lots of the colour in pots, and the real tow boat im basing it on is Red, Black, and White.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030791.jpg

The flanking rudder also arrived today so will show the pictures once it is fitted and hooked up to the servo :D

Michael

[arrow5]

Good choice of colour schemes. Be sure to leave plenty of time when masking the colours, a couple of days even. Here is a pic of my Sprinkler with balsa top with brown paper,PVA and Humbrol.

[Michael Pardy]

Wow, thats one fine model you've got there. Is that the same one on Youtube with the watercooling? I assumed so cos its one of your videos.

:eek: THE FLANKING RUDDER IS INSTALLED! :eek: = THE HULL IS FINISHED *apart from painting etc*

Heres the pics.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030792.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/KitingMichael/P1030793.jpg

I've done a test with the radio and IT WORKS :D :D :D

Thanks to TowboatJoe for making the flanking rudder for me and sending it all the way from America to little britain :p I really appreciate it

Michael

[towboatjoe]

Glad to see it fit like it supposed to. Can't wait to see the paint and detailing.

[Michael Pardy]

Yes, I was really impressed how well it fitted in. Can't wait for the painting and detailing too! :D