Scale opinions and thoughts

[Massey]

Tonight I started drawing the plans for my Research Vessel. I gave up on the CAD stuff, I could not find free CAD programs that would suit my needs. Freeship and Delft ship would not draw arches very well and all I came up with was some really ugly looking hulls in the general shape that I wanted. OK enough chatter on that.

I was thinking about making this ship in HO scale or 1:87th. This allows me to use an abundance of railroad figures and already made items that you would find on a ship such as this. Other fittings that are ship only I have no clue where to find but what cant be found can be made.

I am planning for this ship to measure 42" long and 12" wide which scales out to 304.5' long and 87' wide. (92.8M x 26.5M)

Would this be a bad scale to use? I know it is my ship and my preference to scale but I am talking about realism here. I have tried to research these vessels and I dont come up with much information on their size. Some R.V. Ships are nothing more than 30' Livingstons towing a sonar array, others have been converted supply vessels that do measure 200-300 feet.

Here are a few calculations I have made for my vessel
Model Length 42"
Model Width 12"

Prototype dimmentions based on (model dementions x Scale) / 12.

1:87 (HO) 304.5 x 87. (92.8M x 26.5M)
1:64 (S) 224 x 64 (68.3M x 19.5M)
1:48 (O) 168 x 48 (51.2M x 14.6M)

Of those scale dimmentions and model dimmentions can any of you advise me to what size vessel would most likely be the one that you would see DSRV crafts, like Alvin, launched from? I am guessing it would be the 87th or 64th scales that would be large enough to handle the DSRVs.

I do plan on building this ship with a working horseshoe crane on the stern capable of "launching" the DSRV or towing a sonar array. I would really like to make the ship capable of dropping the DSRV using electromagnets but I dont know of any 2 pole wire that is small enough to mimic cable and strong enough to do any work. Maybe just use some black string and a tethered DSRV instead of a free running one like Alvin is.

Thanks in advance for any input that will help me design my ship.

Massey

[Alastair_I]

A couple of quick searches turn up the following research vessels..

Le Suroît (http://www.ifremer.fr/fleet/navires/hauturiers/suroit/caracteristiques.htm) - Length overall : 56,34 m, Overall breadth : 11,00 m, Maximum draught : 4,10 m, part of the Ifremer (http://www.ifremer.fr/fleet/index.php) fleet, this vessel was the first used by Bob Ballard in his search for the wreck of the Titanic

RV Knorr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/V_Knorr) - Length: 279 ft (85 m), Beam: 46 ft (14 m), Draught: 16 ft 6 in (5 m), this was the vessel that succeeded Le Suroît in the Titanic search.

Both of these would be suitable for DSRV work, the first lends itself to 1:48 and the second to 1:87. There are quite a few more, using the Wiki entry for Bob Ballard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ballard) as a starting point you can quickly fan out a search to several more vessels and search terms for Google to point at even more.

On the magnet, I'm sure that such models are available for model railways. I know I've seen one recently but can't think where.


Edit - the NOAA (http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/vessels/vessels.html) site has a long list of research vessels of various sizes, giving the basic dimensions for most of them.. further searches might turn up plans or more detailed pictures, but even if there are no plans for exactly what you want you can create a composite of the elements you want to include.

[patmat2350]

Seems like it's going to be an awful lot of work for something that's not a model OF anything. Sure you haven't exhausted the plans resources? Go visit Darrell Pedersen's shipyard http://groups.msn.com/PedersensShipYard/welcome.msnw for some inspiration! Also, he notes that NOAA ship plans can be had from the Smithsonian-- see the Plans tab.

[Ghost 2501]

HO scale is a good scale, and it is what I have built Nord Icelandia to, for the same reason, getting hold of figures and the likes. as for the subm Graupner do "MR LOBSTER", its a cheap 27mhz toy that is a replica of the Shinkai 6500, which can carry 2 people 6500m down, to give you an idea just how deep 6.5km is, the Titanic lies at about 3000m!

ballast of the mr lobster is delicate at best.

[Ghost 2501]

massey, one potential option is the Model Slipway AZIZ hull, she's around 1/50th scale, but with some artistic licence she could be adapted

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Thoughts....hmmm
.
.
.
.
.
.
Finish the Tito Neri!!... Come to the Foss Cup in August. :D
.
.

[Mrs. Toe's]

Erm...in referance to scale and deciding on what sizes mean, Toe's and I made a trip to Tammies Hobbie shop--(Eeeeeevil, wicked, naughty, oh so naughty :D ) in Beaverton. While wandering the isles and trying to keep the drool marks to a minimum, we spotted an item called a 'Scale Card'. Unpon returning to the apartment, we found their website:

http://www.thescalecard.com/

They have 26 different scales to choose from! Has anyone else delt with these cards and what do you think??

[patmat2350]

Haven't, but I have found my self in a model RR store buying G figures that were the wrong size... course, if I could have remembered to bring my Scale Card, I could have remembered that I just needed a 1:24 figure to be 3 inches or a little less...

[Massey]

Thanks for the info Pat. My searches only really found me pictures of the ships and I would have to estimate the size. I was hoping that in HO scale, my ship would not be exceedingly large and unrealistic.

Umi,
I would love to finish the Tito Neri but I am lacking the funds to buy the electronics for her. I NEED TO BUILD!!! that is why I am looking into this project. I have most of the parts for this boat sitting on my shelves, I cant afford a premade hull that is why I am going to try and build this plank on frame, buying a few boards at a time. The Tito Neri will cost me $400 to get started again, and I promised the bank (read wife) that I would wait on buying the parts for her till we had more comming in. The bank did approve this build because the expence can be spread out little at a time and not be one big chunk at once and I have most of the high dollar parts sitting on my shelf. Fear not Tito Neri will be built, I will bring her to the Foss Cup, I am hoping next year.

Mrs. Toe's,
I have used those scales while doing my Model Railroading. They are great for fast conversions and essential to any modeler's tool box.

Massey

[Alastair_I]

Electromagnets for cranes.. found it.. Marklin produce one and the magnet is available seperately as a spare, there is one on Ebay (http://item.express.ebay.com/Toys-Hobbies_Model-RR-Trains__NEW-Magnet-389280-for-Marklin-HO-Crane-7051-EE-Lot-671_W0QQitemZ250233226944QQihZ015QQddnZToysQ20Q26Q 20HobbiesQQadnZModelQ20RRQ2cQ20TrainsQQptdiZ2554QQ ddiZ1290QQcmdZExpressItem).

Are you thinking of a making a scale model of vessel X or a generic freelance model? If it's the latter the variety of research vessels is so great that any hull plan that takes your fancy could be easily adapted with a freelanced superstructure, and that would allow you to design around the features you want to animate. As you say, just about any vessel type has been converted for research purposes by someone, somewhere.

[Ghost 2501]

Thoughts....hmmm
.
.
.
.
.
.
Finish the Tito Neri!!... Come to the Foss Cup in August. :D
.
.


and the sydney star :)

[Prins Willem]

If you want to lend a air of credibility to your research vessel consider painting her turquoise and give her NUMA markings. Nobody will question it then (at least a Clive Cussler fan).

Russian R/V which took the Mir submersibles to the Titanic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademik_Mstislav_Keldysh

Wikipedia research vessel listing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_vessel
A fair explanation of research vessels and references to other websites.

[Rex R]

or perhaps an old battered freighter named the 'oregon'...course you'd need some r/c ballast tanks and a couple of BIG motors... :)
rex

[CG Bob]

Erm...in referance to scale and deciding on what sizes mean, Toe's and I made a trip to Tammies Hobbie shop--(Eeeeeevil, wicked, naughty, oh so naughty :D ) in Beaverton. While wandering the isles and trying to keep the drool marks to a minimum, we spotted an item called a 'Scale Card'. Unpon returning to the apartment, we found their website:

http://www.thescalecard.com/

They have 26 different scales to choose from! Has anyone else delt with these cards and what do you think??
I don't use the scale cards you listed. I have a Calculated Industries Model Calc that I use in the shop; infortunatekt they no konger make the Model Calc. It has the more common train and hobby scales programmed in, and the option for 4 custom scales that you want. The train scales are HO (1:87), N (1:160), O (1:48), Z (1:220), G (1:22.5), S (1:64). The other loaded scales are: 1:8 (1.5" = 1'), 1:12 (1"=1'), 1:16 (3/4"= 1'), 1:24, 1:25, 1:32, 1:35, 1:48, 1:72, 1:76, 1:100, 1:144, 1:350, 1:700, & 1:1200. It al;so converst Imperial (feet & inches) measurments to metric.

Anyway, I always carry a semi-scale ruler in my pocket when everI go shopping. It's just a piece of green paper measuring 6.14" (156 mm) by 2.61" (66 mm). I know most people in the US carry the same type of paper in their pocket, wallet or purse.

[steveciambrone]

I am getting a 3 week expense paid trip on the NOAA ship Fairweather this July and August. Nice looking ship, the clutter on the deck is normal for any Research Vessel you could change it every week and it would be prototypical.

Thanks
Steve

[Ghost 2501]

I am getting a 3 week expense paid trip on the NOAA ship Fairweather this July and August. Nice looking ship, the clutter on the deck is normal for any Research Vessel you could change it every week and it would be prototypical.

Thanks
Steve

that constant refitting sounds oh so much like Nord Icelandia.

by the way could you send me some detail pics of the towed array so I can factor something similar onto my own Nord Icelandia.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/2/1/2/a1929491-15-PICT0072.jpg

[keith S]

Massey, Contact NOAA in Seattle through their web site and you will find they are more than helpfull in obtaining information/drawings of their vessels or contact the vessel directly. Many of the lines can be found on the ships profile for free. I have the drawings for the NOAA ship Rainier and they came from NOAA. They were more then happy to help since they know they do not get much recognition. They do have some great vessels.