July MA

[dharban]

Well, today was just another rainy day in Oklahoma and when I went out to check the mail I found, to my unending joy, the July issue of MA. We've had so many rainy, windy days in the last couple of months that many of us are running out of things to do around the house. So rather than thumb through my monthly MA in about 5 minutes, I decided to flog it and see if there was anything useful in it.

For starters, there was -- an article about Airtronic's new 2.4 rig.

Then I decided to see if there was anything relevant to the soaring community. No Soaring column this month. Probably our bad, but I didn't really mind. I appreciate what our guys do here and they do have lives, after all.

Then I decided to see how many depictions of gliders were included among all the photos (excluding ads and product reviews). I got confused (it happens a lot) at around 130 photos -- but there was no confusion that not a single one even remotely resembled a glider.

Then I read the AMA News section. You know, the part where our elected officials tell us what's going on. Not a single picture of a glider. Not a single mention of any glider activity. (The word glider was mentioned once by one of the area V.P.'s -- see if you can find it.) I looked to see if the Contest Calendar mentioned the Soaring Masters coming up in September. While several other September events at Muncie were posted, I missed any reference to it -- if one of you can find it, let me know. Waldo is easier to find.

And then the Piece de Resistance -- our President's Perspective. He devotes his column to telling us what's going on at Muncie this summer. He gets to September and describes the events and the SIG's (SAM and VR/CS) that host them that come both before and after the Soaring Masters. Again, I missed his reference to the Masters. He did include the word "soaring" in the column. And this time it is a little easier to find than Waldo.

Now don't get me wrong. I sincerely appreciate the efforts that various members of the soaring community have devoted to getting the words "soaring" and "glider" into MA. These few guys have done a great job. But beyond that it is far easier to find Waldo than it is to find anyone in the AMA who has any time whatsoever for words "glider" or "soaring".

Oh well, the odds are very good that when the August edition of MA arrives that it will be hot and sunny here and I can revert to swiftly tossing it into the trash. If it is raining, I'll just play with my magic "Where's Waldo?" shake-em-up wand. It will be much more satisfying and easier to find Waldo mixed among all the other floating stuff than it is to try to find a sign that any of our AMA leadership even knows that our sport exists.

Happy Landings,

Don

[Mark Miller]

Word from Darwin Barrie is that he has a few columns submitted and he is not sure why there was no column this month. I suggested that if our gliders could launch and land on water they would have found a place. I did email our AMA President regarding the omissions in his column and no Soaring.

Mark

[schrederman]

Soooo..... Are there enough LSF members to buy our own insurance, sanction our own contests, etc.? In other words... is anyone else interested in breaking away from the AMA?

[prodjx]

An interresting thought schred, I'm sure your not the only one who's thought of it. It would be interresting to find out just how many of us are dedicated glider guider's. I love flying and have flown I.C. and electric, briefly, but I'm passionate about flying glider's, also know I can fly all by myself or with company, and company could be a local hawk, I'm honored to share airspace with them. I better stop now, Dave.

[OVSS Boss]

Jack, an emphatic no, no way, no how. We stand together or not at all.

Marc

[BrianSmith]

Not me man!! More work at promoting our portion of the sport maybe. But break away?? Not me man!! :D Brian

Soooo..... Are there enough LSF members to buy our own insurance, sanction our own contests, etc.? In other words... is anyone else interested in breaking away from the AMA?

[schrederman]

It was only a hypothetical question, anyway... For something like that to work, it would require buy-in from a large mass of people, and several of them would have to gamble with quitting their jobs to be full-time administrators, etc. That would probably never happen.

I was just trying to pattern my life after our banned hero... :eek: ...NOT!!!! :D

Jack

[dharban]

I agree with Marc. But I think it is clear that with the exception of providing a little supplemental insurance which is pretty worthless, except for the comfort it provides the owners of flying sites, that the AMA is mostly irrelevant to all of us who are too far away to reasonably benefit from the AMA "National Flying Site." MA is merely a simple reflection of the AMA's indifference to our sport.

It is clear that the AMA leadership has not, does not and cannot be expected to do anything to advance our aspect of Model Aviation. Period.

I guess it is fair to ask, then, who will provide a little support for advancing our sport on a national scale? To date, our SIG, the LSF, has pretty well defined the scope of its responsibilities as administering the LSF Achievement Award system and of hosting the AMA Soaring Nationals in Muncie (which it does magnificently).

But without intending to be dismissive of the effort that the LSF leadership puts into fulfilling its current responsibilities, I think that it is fair to suggest that these things do very little to increase the level of visibility of our sport on a national basis. Just for grins, I logged on to the pattern flyer's SIG (NSCRA) They pretty clearly define their Object and Purpose as follows:

Section 1 – Object

The objective of this society shall be to promote the construction and competitive flying of radio controlled aerobatic model airplanes. To aid, insofar as possible, the Academy of Model Aeronautics and other AMA activities, to further the advancement of model aircraft aerobatics in all of its phases.

Section 2 – Purpose of the Society

a. Act as a focal point for rules development and progression. Gather intelligence from the AMA precision aerobatics community to provide the basis for AMA rules change proposals

b. Promote precision aerobatics in the general R/C community by providing leadership in all of the objectives of the society. .

c. Enhance model precision aerobatics as a recognized sport.

d. Develop and provide high standards in judging for competitions and provide qualifications and achievement recognition for judges.

Clearly our needs and resources are different from theirs. It is difficult to know how their numbers compare to ours (certainly their Nats participation is more or less of the same order of magnitude). It is interesting to contemplate the effect of increasing, even modestly, the effort we undertake to make our sport more visible.

If MA and the AMA leadership aren't going to do it and if the equipment we use is not generally visible in hobby shops and if we engage in our activity at sites which are remote from exposure to casually interested parties how can we expect anyone to get it?

Happy Landings,

Don

P.S. Before we go off on another discussion of all the great things that are being done (or which can be done) locally, the question I have posed is simply "is there anything which might be done at the national level by our SIG or anyone else which might "enhance RC Soaring as a recognized sport?"

[Libelle201B]

I agree with Marc. But I think it is clear that with the exception of providing a little supplemental insurance which is pretty worthless, except for the comfort it provides the owners of flying sites, that the AMA is mostly irrelevant to all of us who are too far away to reasonably benefit from the AMA "National Flying Site." MA is merely a simple reflection of the AMA's indifference to our sport.

It is clear that the AMA leadership has not, does not and cannot be expected to do anything to advance our aspect of Model Aviation. Period.

I guess it is fair to ask, then, who will provide a little support for advancing our sport on a national scale? To date, our SIG, the LSF, has pretty well defined the scope of its responsibilities as administering the LSF Achievement Award system and of hosting the AMA Soaring Nationals in Muncie (which it does magnificently).

But without intending to be dismissive of the effort that the LSF leadership puts into fulfilling its current responsibilities, I think that it is fair to suggest that these things do very little to increase the level of visibility of our sport on a national basis. Just for grins, I logged on to the pattern flyer's SIG (NSCRA) They pretty clearly define their Object and Purpose as follows:

Section 1 ? Object

The objective of this society shall be to promote the construction and competitive flying of radio controlled aerobatic model airplanes. To aid, insofar as possible, the Academy of Model Aeronautics and other AMA activities, to further the advancement of model aircraft aerobatics in all of its phases.

Section 2 ? Purpose of the Society

a. Act as a focal point for rules development and progression. Gather intelligence from the AMA precision aerobatics community to provide the basis for AMA rules change proposals

b. Promote precision aerobatics in the general R/C community by providing leadership in all of the objectives of the society. .

c. Enhance model precision aerobatics as a recognized sport.

d. Develop and provide high standards in judging for competitions and provide qualifications and achievement recognition for judges.

Clearly our needs and resources are different from theirs. It is difficult to know how their numbers compare to ours (certainly their Nats participation is more or less of the same order of magnitude). It is interesting to contemplate the effect of increasing, even modestly, the effort we undertake to make our sport more visible.

If MA and the AMA leadership aren't going to do it and if the equipment we use is not generally visible in hobby shops and if we engage in our activity at sites which are remote from exposure to casually interested parties how can we expect anyone to get it?

Happy Landings,

Don

P.S. Before we go off on another discussion of all the great things that are being done (or which can be done) locally, the question I have posed is simply "is there anything which might be done at the national level by our SIG or anyone else which might "enhance RC Soaring as a recognized sport?"

Don, as I leafed through several MA magazines I did not see a single advertisement by any large or small providers/producers of RC sailplanes. There were tons of advertisements for just about everything else that doesn't soar. Without a doubt all of those non soaring entities are pumping money into the coffers of the AMA. Could there be a $ reason to explain why certain groups get all the attention in MA? I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. A pay to play kinda thing if you will. The AMA is after all a government of sorts.
Soaring in the end will get to play at the NATS, but don't expect to get much attention/recognition from MA between NATS events. In the end, as long as soaring is included in the basic format of AMA competition, I don't think there is a real problem. I don't think there is any data to suggest that soaring participation has suffered because of MA's lack of soaring coverage. True soaring folks will always rely on soaring folks to pass on techno information, trends, ect via the internet. Unfortunately we are all charged in our membership fee to AMA to subscribe to MA. And membership to AMA is required to compete. I would have loved to hear George Carlin's perspective on this....anyway just my opinion. :)

[Bob J]

To paraphrase, "We have met the photographer and he is us." :)

Each of the AMA districts has a Vice President that writes a monthly column that is published in Model Aviation. They are constantly looking for information to fill that column. Take pictures and submit them to them for publication. Be sure to include information as to who, what, when, where. Don't take pictures of sailplanes, take pictures of people holding sailplanes.

There are eleven AMA districts; if five people from each district submitted a couple of photos each month for the next year I'll bet that at least one would get published in Model Aviation. Name and e-mail address of every AMA District Vice President is available in Model Aviation.

Regards,
Bob J.

[aeajr]

I have several articles on soaring submitted and accepted by MA. Seems they were squeezed on space or time. I am sure things will catch up.

[Mark Miller]

Since MA is only available to AMA members promoting soaring there is really just preaching to the choir. I would like to see the main stream magazines promote it more but know the reasons why it is not. There is no money to be made in our section of the hobby. There are no large distributors or hobby shops selling high end molded planes. You see a kit or two and some basic ARF's but that is about it. What really supports our hobby is the cottage industry and you need to get involved in it for awhile to figure out where to get stuff. This forum, RCSE and maybe RCUniverse does as good a job as anything to get the word out.

As an owner of a small cottage industry business there is no way I could afford to advertise in any of the magazines and see any benefit. That is why no one advertises from the soaring world. We are similar to things like control line carrier landing, combat and speed fliers. Look at what is being advertised in the magazines. That is what is selling and selling enough to make a profit to support the advertising. We balk at a $1,800 moldie sailplane but look at what an airframe costs for a Bob Violette jet. Something on the order of $6,500 without power, fuel management or radio gear. They are built in Florida and advertise. If you think that we soaring business guys are making a large profit margin you are kidding yourself. Selling radio gear is harder. You might make 10% on a $8.00 servo. Hardly enough to pay for the shelf space it takes up. Selling radio gear is really a service to the customer and not a money maker.

The solution? It is you. Magazines will not promote something unless it pays them in the form of advertising. Businesses will not advertise unless they make a profit. They make a profit by selling enough to the customers. ultimately the economy runs off of the wallets of the consumer.

Mark

[dharban]

There is surely more that can be done at the local and personal level.

At the national level one modest suggestion:

Under the auspices of our SIG (LSF) prepare a simple glossy three-fold, two sided flyer to place in simple plastic holders in local hobby shops which describes some of the various aspects of RC soaring and has a spot for local organizations to place contact information. Also include contact information for the LSF, the AMA and pertinent forums like this.

These could supplement local club posters and literature and might reinforce interest by some people who might be impressed to know that we are organized nationally. They would also supplement and reinforce any notices or literature that local clubs prepare for such display.

Placing this information in the shops could be done by the LSF Club Coordinators.

As to the time and expense, I have the time and will donate the first $500 required for such an undertaking.

Happy Landings,

Don

[jrerickson]

He gets to September and describes the events and the SIG's (SAM and VR/CS) that host them that come both before and after the Soaring Masters. Again, I missed his reference to the Masters. He did include the word "soaring" in the column. And this time it is a little easier to find than Waldo.

I tried to find the Soaring Masters in the Contest Calendar at the back of the magazine and it isn't listed. All sorts of events in Muncie bracketing the event, but nothing written for Sep 19-21.

John

[aeajr]

World Soaring Masters
http://www.worldsoaringmasters.com/

The AMA and League of Silent Flight are listed as sponsors. Supprisingly WSM does not appear to be listed on AMA or LSF sites. Strange.

I submitted a question to the AMA about this.

[OVSS Boss]

It is approved and sanctioned, just not in the book or on the calendar. This is why Dave Mathewson did not say anything about it in his comments.

It is on guys, no worries.

Marc

[tkallev]

All the reasons Mark gives are valid, money moves the world and publishing even more. It's hard to be timely in print when you have round scores posted on the web in realtime. Most organizations have benefitted from the WWW. Soaring Masters has its own website and has a 1/4 page add in RCSF (one of the sponsors). We are indeed a niche group, albeit not a small community at all.

To play Devil's Advocate:

How much of Model Aviation do you read? The past two years, in the letters column, there have been "representatives" of most of the factions asking for more coverage. The Glow/Gas guys are tired of seeing Electrics, the Scale guys want more builders' plans, more C/L, more F/F, less R/C, ad nauseum.

There have been several editorials about the need, desire and difficulties inherent in producing a magazine for as many disciplines as there are in model airplanes.

There are so many events now, WSM, Joe Nall, SEFF, XFC, IRCHA ... MA can't cover them all every year, but they try to keep up in rotation over the years.

So far in 2008, we've had a feature article by Ed Anderson of LISF about including the Park Flyer Program as a means to increase their sailplane club's membership base. Lee Estingoy (Castle Creations) had a feature article on electrifying the Supra. The editors have been kind to our community in 2008 so far (IMHO). Darwin and Dave have shared the RC Soaring column and Dave has had a number of articles about PSS plane finishing. I'd call that pretty decent coverage.

Want to see more? Submit articles, pictures, short and long. Contact your AMA representatives. But let me give a small piece of advice from 25 years in corporate America, don't submit a problem without also submitting a potential fix. Without a plan to address the issue, your input is just so much bitching and moaning and there's far too much of that on these forums already.

My 2 cents, back to lurking.

tom

[dharban]

fix. Without a plan to address the issue, your input is just so much bitching and moaning and there's far too much of that on these forums already.

My 2 cents, back to lurking.

tom

I don't give a hoot in hell what the AMA does or does not do for or about RC soaring. Their record (for whatever excuses or reasons) suggests that expecting a change is not a good use of time. I am interested in seeing RC soaring gain even a little more visibility around the country. I suggested one plan (see above) and indicated a willingness to devote my time and money to executing it. If it is not the right plan, let's get a right plan and my time and money will be there.

I too, spent a lifetime in the corporate world. And while I would agree that there is too much pointless bitching and moaning. I would also suggest that, at times, there is too much lethargy.

Happy Landings,

Don

[Libelle201B]

I don't give a hoot in hell what the AMA does or does not do for or about RC soaring. Their record (for whatever excuses or reasons) suggests that expecting a change is not a good use of time. I am interested in seeing RC soaring gain even a little more visibility around the country. I suggested one plan (see above) and indicated a willingness to devote my time and money to executing it. If it is not the right plan, let's get a right plan and my time and money will be there.

I too, spent a lifetime in the corporate world. And while I would agree that there is too much pointless bitching and moaning. I would also suggest that, at times, there is too much lethargy.

Happy Landings,

Don
Don, nothing personal, but arn't you kinda contradicting yourself ? You stated that you were unhappy about the amount of exposure of rc soaring in MA, but you say " I don't give a hoot in hell what the AMA does or does not do for or about RC soaring". I think tkallev and Mark Miller kind of put things into perspective. I absolutely agree that soaring should have more exposure
in MA, after all gliders were the precursors of powered flight. Unless you can convince others that the AMA is NOT supporting soaring, albiet the lack of coverage in MA, I don't think you will get much support. :)

[markdrela]

So far in 2008, we've had a feature article by Ed Anderson of LISF about including the Park Flyer Program as a means to increase their sailplane club's membership base. Lee Estingoy (Castle Creations) had a feature article on electrifying the Supra. The editors have been kind to our community in 2008 so far (IMHO). Darwin and Dave have shared the RC Soaring column and Dave has had a number of articles about PSS plane finishing. I'd call that pretty decent coverage. And don't forget the RES article by Dave Garwood last year. That's quite a lot of major articles in about a year. So I agree that this level of soaring coverage seems reasonable or even generous, given our small numbers and minimal advertising base. It may not feel like that when you compare MA and RSCD, but that's not a realistic comparison.

[dharban]

Don, nothing personal, but arn't you kinda contradicting yourself ? You stated that you were unhappy about the amount of exposure of rc soaring in MA, but you say " I don't give a hoot in hell what the AMA does or does not do for or about RC soaring". I think tkallev and Mark Miller kind of put things into perspective. I absolutely agree that soaring should have more exposure in MA, after all gliders were the precursors of powered flight. Unless you can convince others that the AMA is NOT supporting soaring, albiet the lack of coverage in MA, I don't think you will get much support. :)

Nothing personal, but I don't believe my contributions in this thread are the least bit contradictory.

Whether or not I am unhappy with the coverage we get in MA or the support we get from the AMA, the first point is that it is inadequate. It has been inadequate. And it likely will always be inadequate. (this is not intended to demean the great contributions of our columnists and individual contributors)

The second point is simply to question (and suggest a solution -- maybe not the best solution) the ways that RC soaring might get a little more organized coverage without expecting more from the AMA.

And the third point was to acknowledge that anything that might be worthwhile would require personal effort from those within our ranks -- and I made it unquestionably clear that I was prepared to volunteer some of my time and money.

Frankly, I don't think the AMA does an adequate job of representing our interests. And I don't care. We will continue to join the AMA because its the thing to do. But sometimes its easier to go around a bump than over it. The questions to me are what can we do for ourselves to increase the exposure of our sport and who is willing to help do it?

Happy Landings,

Don

[prodjx]

Thank goodness for the British mags like QEFI, RCM@E etc. to AMA's embaressment sometime's they even have article's about American activities both powered and gliding. I've even built a/c from the free plan's that come with them. The only down side I can see with them is there price. Dave.

[aeajr]

Soaring magazines have come and gone. Why? Because there is not enough general interest in RC soaring to support them.

RC Soaring will always be a small part of the whole scene because the average RC flyer has never seen a full scale glider, has no ambitions of flying a glider and so he has no interest in gliders, RC or otherwise.

Personally it is totally by accident that I every flew a glider. But having done so I found I really loved it. That is why I wrote that article in the June issue of MA. It was not just to help the parkflyer crowd, but to wake up the glider crowd that once people try gliders they like them. But you have to welcome them into your group or they will never try them.

Face it, RC soaring will always get less coverage in MA and other magazines because there is less interest in RC Soaring than other forms.

[rdwoebke]

I tried to find the Soaring Masters in the Contest Calendar at the back of the magazine and it isn't listed. All sorts of events in Muncie bracketing the event, but nothing written for Sep 19-21.



The AMA and League of Silent Flight are listed as sponsors. Supprisingly WSM does not appear to be listed on AMA or LSF sites. Strange.

I submitted a question to the AMA about this.


Some of you are probably aware of this, some not. When a person sanctions an event, that alone does not start the process of getting the event in the event calander in MA. You have to also fill out the "event publication" form and make sure it gets to MA 90 days before you expect to see this item in the back of the calander. If an event is announced to the soaring world a year before, but this event publication not sent in until 3 months before the event, it probably won't get in the back of the magazine until just before the event.

And, of course I'm speculating that is what happened here with Masters, could be something else, but the info I provided above is still valid and useful for club CD/leaders to heed.

So far as the national flying site goes, that is an additional step to secure that for an event. Clubs have been given security to have an event on a given weekend even before the sanctions are sent in (I should know, I CDed a contest at the national flying site...).

http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/302.pdf

Ryan

[Soar_dude]

Alright I just got done getting eyeball juice on this months AMA fishwrapper I am sorely disappointed not a single article or column for soaring. This is really bad when the FF folks get more press then the soaring community gets. It's true soaring has fallen off the face of the earth. There are no soaring publications in print anymore "Yes I know RCSD". It was nice to have and excuse to give wife so I could down to hobby shop and look around. I can live with the ads in the magizine but at least have something for us. I gonna drop and e-mail to Dave and the editor of the magazine.

Soar Dude

[R. Carver]

Aww man, not this AGAIN :rolleyes:

The reason you don't see tons of soaring stuff in MA is the same reason you don't see many sumo wrestling magazines at the newsstands......When you look at the big picture, there's just not that many people into it!

[donnyman]

Hello to the soaring world! I've been reading a lot of what is bugging you all, and it looks like the matter has reached a consensus "soaring ain't that popular" But as a non (At this time) soaring person offer a suggestion. use the notice for contest section a little differently and as often as you can. please don't use tech. terminology to describe a meeting/contest we "non soarers" have no idea of what you say (boring) But will come to a meet and get involved I haven't done the soaring thing but admire the sport. please be more visible when ever you can. it may help. ..Good luck and many thermals to you!!

[aeajr]

I have a 5 part series waiting for publication that is specifically targeted at introducing non soaring pilots to soaring and gliders. :) Mr. Ramsey accepted them and said they would come out over the coming year.

Now, I have to wait form them to publish them.

[dwells]

All that we have is the AMA and FCC that recognize our needs and desires, they are already established and are the standard. Who's going to change that? Am I out to lunch thinking that the AMA will not stand buy me if I lose my plane at 2000' and get's lost and causes injury? Up to $2m? That's what I read. Who's going to put that together? The mag is fun stuff whether or not there's any soaring in a given issue. I take my old issues to my dentist friend and put them out in the lobby. You should see them when I recycle. They're tattered and torn and gooed and gaumed by every light hearted, flight fancy soul that comes through...every boy and his dad. Outside in the sun and fresh air flying anything is better that sitting at home on the couch and no matter how that interest gets sparked...it's a good thing. I just try be informative when the park dudes come over and say "How high is that? How long have you been up?" This is the time to give the sailplane presentation. Sorry just rambling...