Club Insurance??

[Greg Hiltz]

Hey, All;
Our little club, Saint John Marine Modelers Association, has been active since four of us older salts got togtether in 1983, to promote the hobby and organize outings. As a club, we have never had a liability insurance policy to protect our members or to look after any potential incident, that luckily has not happened yet.
We have shopped around, and so far, we are looking at paying over $500.00 premiums to cover us at static displays in museums, shopping malls, outdoor displays at lakes, and also R/C outings with both electric and fuel powered models.
Our prez has enquired regarding the NAMBA insurance, and also the model plane MAAC policies, but we are wondering what other model boat clubs are
doing for insurance. I know the USA is very pro-insurance, esp with some people searching out potential reasons to sue, and we are now finding we cannot set up even the simplest displays in a couple shopping malls and public venues, without an insurance policy in place.
-Input Welcomed.
Greg Hiltz, SJMMA secretary

[patmat2350]

http://ssmana.org/

[Prins Willem]

Our club originally belonged to IMPBA (way back when) for insurance purposes. About 1990 we found insurance through a local independent agent. Recently the company we were with stopped writing liability insurance policies so we had to shop. the agent we had was nice enough to recommend a company (which he didn't rep) for our policy as his companies wouldn't write a policy for us. We had to switch agents to get the new insurance (a shame since the old agent was really good). Our club carries $1M liability. This is necessary for the Wisconsin Boat Show we do every January, the Milwaukee County Parks department, and the Shops at Woodlake event (Kohler Company). The event we do at the Wisconsin Maritime Museum during the Model Ship Contest doesn't require a certificate of insurance but they know we have it so they sleep better.

Try calling a few independent agents. It seems smaller insurance companies are more willing to write these kinds of policies. it may help to supply a written description of your club and its activities. If you don't run gas make sure you point that out specifically.

Patmat's suggestion is also a good one if you can meet the SSMA membership criteria.

[green-boat]

Our club, St. Louis Admirals has the SSMA insurance. We are finding that more and more places are requiring it. Recently one place that we wanted to run at wanted us to have a $2M policy. :eek:

[nick_75au]

$5m in Australia :eek: is normaly required, our premium was around $400 I think, its due soon again :mad:

[der kapitan]

It's a given to have club insurance, and we have ours through SSMA at a reasonable cost. the eligibility criteria is quite attainable too. :)

With everybody in the states seemingly sue-happy, (lawyers everywhere) it's just a smart thing to do---. ;)

[Hoghappy]

...this is something we have NOT approached. We were never asked about it by the Montgomery City Parks and Rec. Department who maintains the main pond we sail in. I was granted permission by the Department Director via an email to utilize the pond. They maintain it.

What are the ramifications of not having a policy since we operate on City property and have not been informed or asked about a policy? We are a loose group with no club bylaws or dues. We just want to sail and have fun without all the meetings...and other stuff.

Our club is affiliated with AMYA and we have a club number. They offer a 1mil policy for $50.00 per year, but it is only for the "owner" not the individual members or club itself. Is this even worth looking into?

Capt. Crash

[patmat2350]

Best to talk to an agent or lawyer, but I wonder if an informal club (i.e., not registered as for- or non-profit organization) can be sued... but the individual members can be, and home owner's insurance (hopefully) will come into play there.

Pretending that the club exists as an entity may be convenient when the hosting entity (city, mall...) demands a policy... then the "club" can secure a policy through any of the orgs discussed here. A fine point, but I wonder how an insurer can issue a policy to a "group" which is not clearly defined?

[Olscuzbut]

Quick question. We are trying to form a RC boat club, but are having trouble getting the interest out there. We have all the info for NAMBA and plan to go that route if it ever comes about. My question is , do I have to have insurance coverage to attend any out of town regatta functions with my boats, or is the function, covered?

[PatricMichigan]

The last time this subject came up with us in the SSMA we had problems insuring a club outside of the US. I'm not sure if anything has changed or not in the years since then.
Would be best to contact the Insurance Director via the website: www.ssmana.org .

The one big problem with SSMA insurance is that it really only covers the named club and members who are also SSMA members. I think that other club members who are not SSMA members could still be named in a suit.
Crash- I think that your group could be named in a liability suit in that situation. SSMA offers its individual members liability coverage also included in the $20 yearly dues. But like the AMYA an individual membership would not protect others or the club itself from being named.

But, I don't really understand the law and honestly don't really want to.

Olscuzbut- that varies with the event of course but I would think that any event that advertises would have to carry liability insurance.

Patric

[Prins Willem]

The WSBA is a Wisconsin non-profit corporation (LLC). The insurance covers the corp. and individual's homeowners should cover individual liability. My understanding is the LLC is supposed to protect the membership from suit against the corp. A case of member misconduct or disregard for safety should only involve the corporation and the offending member. Insurance is a good idea.


Hoghappy, your club is probably in that gray area between the old guys meeting at McDonalds on Tuesday mornings and calling themselves the old farts club, and a full fledged corporate entity. You have official recognition by the city, you have set meetings, and you distribute literature. I think that makes you more than a bunch of guys getting together to run boats.

Patmat is right, seek some well informed council.

[CG Bob]

The Cleveland MBC has scale, sail, and power boat divisions; one of our lakes is covered by the AMYA and IMPBA insurance policies. The owners of our scale lake haven't asked us to provide insurance, yet.

We recently amended our club by laws by inserting the following requirement:
Adult members must join, and keep current membership, in the appropriate National Sanctioning Group for their models. Membership cards will be checked periodically at the lake.
International Model Power Boating Association for power boats
Scale Ship Modelers Association for scale boats
American Model Yachting Association for sailboats

I did some research for our local club on the various insurance policies offered, and the info is in the attached document.

I'm the president of my club, and we are affiliated with SSMA, IMPBA, and AMYA; IMPBA requires the club president to belong to IMPBA; SSMA requires 2 club officers to belong to SSMA. (For Olscuzbut) If I go to another clubs IMPBA event, I'm covered under the IMPBA insurance. Some of the national organizations have a provision for a 1-time fee for non-members to compete at a specific regatta, above and beyond the normal regatta registration.

You really need to check the various national organization insurance policies, as each one is different.

SSMA has a $1,000,000 liability policy for member clubs and individual members of SSMA - in other words you and your club need to belong to SSMA.

IMPBA has a commercial general liability and personnel property damage policy for individual members, registered clubs, municipal or state park boards, or landowners. Paid members of other boating organizations may pay a one-time $10 fee for a specific event.

NAMBA has a $1,000,000 liability and property damage policy for member clubs and individual members.

AMYA has a $1,000,000 liabilty and property damage for the pond owner. CLubs and club members are not ccovered.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Our club has used NAMBA (http://www.namba.com/content/insurance.asp)for the last five years.
This coverage is $1,000,000 per occurrence and $2,000,000 aggregate.

It has an Additional Site insurance that can be purchased to protect the site owner.
This covers up to 2,000,000 in aggregate damages.

We reduced our club dues to counter some of the Namba costs to members.
However we are still getting complaints that $45 is expensive....
For a year of insurance coverage of one to two million dollars?.. it's cheap...
But some members still opt for the $10 one time event fee Namba offers as an alternative.

[ziobrop]

Greg - I know the Rideau Nautical Modelers in Ottawa Have Insurance - we share a policy with the flying, and rc car clubs (iirc) I seem to recall it costs us $300 a year as a 1/3 or 1/4 share of the policy.

It was much cheaper, but it went up with the general rate increases in insurance a few years ago - and i believe there was a large settlement involving a flying club in the Southern US that involved a fatality.

We carry insurance because we used to have a permit from the city which granted us exclusive use of the pond - we simply had to carry insurance. Since amalgamation, the permit is 50$ a day to rent the pond as a city facility - therefore we only get a permit for the regattas, and just show up on Tuesday pond nights.

[der kapitan]

The WSBA is a Wisconsin non-profit corporation (LLC). The insurance covers the corp. and individual's homeowners should cover individual liability. My understanding is the LLC is supposed to protect the membership from suit against the corp. A case of member misconduct or disregard for safety should only involve the corporation and the offending member. Insurance is a good idea.
Hoghappy, your club is probably in that gray area between the old guys meeting at McDonalds on Tuesday mornings and calling themselves the old farts club, and a full fledged corporate entity. You have official recognition by the city, you have set meetings, and you distribute literature. I think that makes you more than a bunch of guys getting together to run boats.
Patmat is right, seek some well informed council.
A lot of information posted here, and a lot of good arguments for liability coverage. :)

For the very reasonable price of the dues, the individual should join one of the associations and put his mind to rest. ;)

[Hoghappy]

I knew I was going to regret this!

We have all the above type of boats and... we also do electric sea/float and flying boats is that going to require a special policy....help I need a lawyer...my head hurts already!

Since we are on City Property and were given permission to use the pond as the MMBC club...wouldn't we be covered under the City Parks and Rec. policy?

I don't want to go to club dues or do anything to make this club fall apart after all the hard work to put it together.

Capt. Crash

[Prins Willem]

Our club went out and found insurance for our club as 99% of our members didn't belong to a national and had no desire to. The WSBA was a charter member of SSMA but dropped our membership when they instituted the 2 officer/5 member rule. We have enough trouble recruiting officer candidates without mandating they join a national (dues out of their own pockets).

Capt. Crash It is a tough call. The WSBA has been incorporated for over 20 years and as such we need to be insured. Have a talk with your insurance agent about your personal liability coverage. If Alabama has specific regs on homeowners insurance coverage your agent can explain it. if all your members are homeowners their liability coverage should be similar. If your club has no assets it is an unlikely target for litigation.

Plan B: get a corporate lawyer hooked on model boating and into the club.