Pitch curve and throttle curve setup

[Raptor newbie]

I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm with a
Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.

My radio (JR X-3810) was set to 0%, 50%, 100% for throttle. Whereas the
pitch curve is 35%, 70.5% and 78% (non-exponential). Is this okay?

I don't have a pitch gauge, but when I reset the pitch curve to 0, 50 and
100, the range of the pitch arm corresponds to the pitch range marking on
the fuselage of the raptor (the inner most curve for beginner). According
to the assembly manual, they correspond to 0, 6, 12 degrees.

So, 35% will place it at 4.2 degree, 70.5% at 8.46 degree, and 78% at 9.36
degree. Am I right?

By the way, the settings are done by my instructor.

The groundwash effect is just too great at some 3 inches height (with
training gear on) while hovering. The response of the heli to the cyclics
are slow and retarded. The heli even started to chase me. Sheesh... How did
you guys do it?

[x-guy]

Get a pitch gauge!

"Raptor newbie" <nospam@dot.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D
:3e313cf3$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm with a
> Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
>
> My radio (JR X-3810) was set to 0%, 50%, 100% for throttle. Whereas the
> pitch curve is 35%, 70.5% and 78% (non-exponential). Is this okay?
>
> I don't have a pitch gauge, but when I reset the pitch curve to 0, 50 and
> 100, the range of the pitch arm corresponds to the pitch range marking on
> the fuselage of the raptor (the inner most curve for beginner). According
> to the assembly manual, they correspond to 0, 6, 12 degrees.
>
> So, 35% will place it at 4.2 degree, 70.5% at 8.46 degree, and 78% at 9.36
> degree. Am I right?
>
> By the way, the settings are done by my instructor.
>
> The groundwash effect is just too great at some 3 inches height (with
> training gear on) while hovering. The response of the heli to the cyclics
> are slow and retarded. The heli even started to chase me. Sheesh... How
did
> you guys do it?

[Raptor newbie]

x-guy wrote:

>> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm with
>> a Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
>
> Get a pitch gauge!

My instructor said I don't need one at the moment. Should I get a new
instructor?

[tippy]

The only time my instructor told me I didn't "need one (pitch gage) at the moment" was when
I was using his to set up my heli. He said that I would eventually need to get my own (which I
did immediately). Also, my instructor never set up my heli for me. My instructor taught me how to
do it myself. I have an R30V1 and the first thing that was taught me was the pitch scale on the
frame was only as good as your setup. In other words, how can you use it to set up your pitch
if it requires the pitch linkages be set correctly before you use it?
The pitch scale is for reference only (ballpark measurements). Even a bad set up can show
good readings on that scale.

Like the other gentleman said " Get a pitch gage". Then learn, learn, learn how to set up
your heli yourself. I'm not saying ditch your instructor. I'm saying get your instructor
to teach YOU how to set it up.

Hope this helps,
tippy

[x-guy]

Get a pitch gauge!

"Raptor newbie" <nospam@dot.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:3e3149b6_2@news.tm.net.my...
> x-guy wrote:
>
> >> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm with
> >> a Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
> >
> > Get a pitch gauge!
>
> My instructor said I don't need one at the moment. Should I get a new
> instructor?

[Raptor newbie]

x-guy wrote:

>> >> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm
>> >> with a Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
>> >
>> > Get a pitch gauge!
>>
>> My instructor said I don't need one at the moment. Should I get a new
>> instructor?
>
> Get a pitch gauge!

Okay, okay. Got your point! Is there anyway I can make a pitch gauge
myself?

[x-guy]

Why? I bought one and have used it for years. A necessary investment.
(Actually you need two to adjust the paddle to let them be in parallel)


"Raptor newbie" <nospam@dot.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D
:3e321872$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
> x-guy wrote:
>
> >> >> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm
> >> >> with a Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
> >> >
> >> > Get a pitch gauge!
> >>
> >> My instructor said I don't need one at the moment. Should I get a new
> >> instructor?
> >
> > Get a pitch gauge!
>
> Okay, okay. Got your point! Is there anyway I can make a pitch gauge
> myself?

[Raptor newbie]

x-guy wrote:

> Why? I bought one and have used it for years. A necessary investment.

The RC shop that I know went bankrupt... :(

> (Actually you need two to adjust the paddle to let them be in parallel)

Paddle? You mean the main rotor blades? Please explain in detail. Thanks.

[Rhodesst]

>Paddle? You mean the main rotor blades? Please explain in detail. Thanks.

There are tools you can buy that allow you to more easily see that the flybar
paddles are parallel with each other and the main rotor system. They're
basically a pair of straight edges with a sliding mount that allows you to
attach them to the flybar paddles like you would a main rotor pitch gauge to
the MR blades. You then visually line up both tools with each other and with
the main rotor system. It's a handy tool to have but I've never had a
significant problem just eyeballing them into the correct position.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[Rhodesst]

>I use two pitch gauge to line up the flybar paddle, I would be more than
>happier to get a specific tool for line up the flybar paddle but I found
>using two pitch gauge works fine.

Miniature Aircraft (X-Cell) sells a flybar paddle alignment tool, part #0510.
You can find it on their web site at www.x-cellrchelicopters.com. Click on
"products", "helicopter tools", "setup tools" for a picture.

FWIW,
Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[x-guy]

Also found this

http://www.heliproz.com/KSJpadgauge.html

"Rhodesst" <rhodesst@aol.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D
:20030126224525.11673.00000203@mb-cp.aol.com...
> >I use two pitch gauge to line up the flybar paddle, I would be more than
> >happier to get a specific tool for line up the flybar paddle but I found
> >using two pitch gauge works fine.
>
> Miniature Aircraft (X-Cell) sells a flybar paddle alignment tool, part
#0510.
> You can find it on their web site at www.x-cellrchelicopters.com. Click
on
> "products", "helicopter tools", "setup tools" for a picture.
>
> FWIW,
> Fly Safe,
> Steve R.

[Beav]

"Raptor newbie" <nospam@dot.com> wrote in message
news:3e3149b6_2@news.tm.net.my...
> x-guy wrote:
>
> >> I'm a newbie with less than 20 minutes of real flight time. I'm with
> >> a Raptor 30 V2 and FMS.
> >
> > Get a pitch gauge!
>
> My instructor said I don't need one at the moment. Should I get a new
> instructor?

Yep. One of the FIRST tools you should buy is something to measure the pitch
with.


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

[Guy Nicholas]

> Yep. One of the FIRST tools you should buy is something to measure the
pitch
> with.

I bought one and the only time I use it is when someone asks me what my
pitch range is :)

Once I have my linkage to the head all squared up, I set 0 by eye, and then
adjust the ATV's if I bog on full climb.

Later, Guy

[Beav]

"Guy Nicholas" <gnichola@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:QrYZ9.89988$AV4.3142@sccrnsc01...
> > Yep. One of the FIRST tools you should buy is something to measure the
> pitch
> > with.
>
> I bought one and the only time I use it is when someone asks me what my
> pitch range is :)
>
> Once I have my linkage to the head all squared up, I set 0 by eye, and
then
> adjust the ATV's if I bog on full climb.

Doing it that way sets the maximum pitch value to that which your engine is
capable of driving, which isn't the same value usually set for "Throttle
Hold" where the max pitch value is typically 2 or 3 degrees more. And you
can't GET that other 3 degrees on the pitch curve menu because you've
limited it with the ATV.

Setting the mid point at zero by eye is fine, but all other are better done
using the various pitch curve menu's along with the ATV (to stop binding)
and a pitch gauge.



--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

[Guy Nicholas]

"Rhodesst" <rhodesst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030131083038.04673.00000218@mb-ct.aol.com...
> >Doing it that way sets the maximum pitch value to that which your engine
is
> >capable of driving, which isn't the same value usually set for "Throttle
> >Hold" where the max pitch value is typically 2 or 3 degrees more. And you
> >can't GET that other 3 degrees on the pitch curve menu because you've
> >limited it with the ATV.
>
> Unless you're flying a Futaba 9Z which allows you to set different ATV's
for
> each flight condition! ;-)
>
> Fly Safe,
> Steve R.

I was going to say that myself, except that on my Fury (ccpm) you don't want
to be using the ATV's at all :)

You know, I used to have normal, 2 idle up's and a hold all with different
pitch curves. Now I have normal, which hovers at half stick, and a straight
line for idle up 1 and hold. And the only time I use normal is when
shooting autos or in an emergency.

On a separate note, I am now going to change my normal curve to hover at
3/4, or where ever I hover in my idle up, so that I don't have to fear
switching to hold at the wrong time.

Later, Guy

[Rhodesst]

>
>I was going to say that myself, except that on my Fury (ccpm) you don't want
>to be using the ATV's at all :)
>
In that case, you'd use AFR's instead of ATV's if that's what you really want
to do. Personally, I'd just use the pitch curves in the case of a CCPM. Come
to think of it, I'd probably use the pitch curves only on a standard control
system too, instead of monkeying around with the ATV's.

>
>On a separate note, I am now going to change my normal curve to hover at
>3/4, or where ever I hover in my idle up, so that I don't have to fear
>switching to hold at the wrong time.
>
>Later, Guy
>
A lot of folks use exactly that kind of setup when they get sufficiently
advanced in the 3D work. I'm not quite there myself but I fully understand
where you're coming from and can see the day when I'll be tempted to fly a
fully mirrored collective at all times too. For now, I've tried hovering at
3/4 stick and it just feels too weird. Some day........

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[Guy Nicholas]

> A lot of folks use exactly that kind of setup when they get sufficiently
> advanced in the 3D work. I'm not quite there myself but I fully
understand
> where you're coming from and can see the day when I'll be tempted to fly a
> fully mirrored collective at all times too. For now, I've tried hovering
at
> 3/4 stick and it just feels too weird. Some day........

I found that I never flew in the "normal" idle up 1 type setting. I don't
want to have to think about what flight mode I am in before I flip or
whatever. I start the motor, put the heli on the pad, step on the gas and
jump to "V" curve.

I started working on aerobatic autos, inverted, rolling, flipping, stuff
like that. I found I really had to think about it when my pitch curve was
basically the same as it was in normal. When I was upside down, I had to be
sortof near the top, when I was right side up, I had to be all the way to
the bottom. 0 was at quarter stick....it was just all funky. With it just
like my normal stunt setup it was much easier. It took a bit to get used to
in the beginning as the pitch was very sensitive. Near the end of the auto
I used to be able to just throw in full pitch and not worry about it. Now I
have to remember that there is a lot more pitch range left in the last
quarter stick.

Regards, Guy

[Beav]

"Guy Nicholas" <gnichola@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d63%9.130634$AV4.3882@sccrnsc01...
> > A lot of folks use exactly that kind of setup when they get sufficiently
> > advanced in the 3D work. I'm not quite there myself but I fully
> understand
> > where you're coming from and can see the day when I'll be tempted to fly
a
> > fully mirrored collective at all times too. For now, I've tried
hovering
> at
> > 3/4 stick and it just feels too weird. Some day........
>
> I found that I never flew in the "normal" idle up 1 type setting. I don't
> want to have to think about what flight mode I am in before I flip or
> whatever. I start the motor, put the heli on the pad, step on the gas and
> jump to "V" curve.
>
> I started working on aerobatic autos, inverted, rolling, flipping, stuff
> like that. I found I really had to think about it when my pitch curve was
> basically the same as it was in normal. When I was upside down, I had to
be
> sortof near the top, when I was right side up, I had to be all the way to
> the bottom. 0 was at quarter stick....it was just all funky. With it
just
> like my normal stunt setup it was much easier. It took a bit to get used
to
> in the beginning as the pitch was very sensitive. Near the end of the
auto
> I used to be able to just throw in full pitch and not worry about it. Now
I
> have to remember that there is a lot more pitch range left in the last
> quarter stick.

I fly with a gov, but not everyone at our field does and when I was asked to
trim out and then "wring out" a pals little X-cell, I FORGOT he wasn't
running one (a gov that is). I did a forward flip to inverted from the floor
and when I pulled in all the neg, no problem (well not MUCH) but seeing as
the tranny was in "normal" mode, the throttle closed. I kept the forward
stick WELL pushed and brought the pitch back to zero and the heli carried on
the flip beyond inverted and back to upright. It was a VERY quite completion
to the flip and the heli missed the ground (I've NO idea how it did that!!)
and I "simply" flew off up the field.

The owner knew SOMETHING went wrong and thought it was his engine giving
trouble. I didn't leave him in the dark too long though or he'd have lost
confidence in the motor, so I had to confess to not making the switch check
as well as I should have. Praise be to K&S paddles I say:-)



--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk