How big an issue is the wing incidence problem of the GWS Zero?

[GOK]

Hi Guys,

I'm about to purchase a GWS warbird and am torn between the Zero and the Me109. I've previously owned the Corsair and the Mustang, loved them both but am looking for something different this time.

I've ran through most of the threads on the zero and the Me109 and the latter seems to be a good flyer without any major modifications where as the Zero reportedly has the wing incidence issue. However, I much prefer to add a zero to my fleet as opposed to a Me109.

Can anyone advise from their own experiences if the wing incidence problem of the zero is easy to fix or a pain in the back?

PS. It's quite difficult to get hands on most of the other brand models in Turkey such as the Alfas, Venoms, ArtTechs, etc. So they are out of the equation, and the focus of my question is strictly on the GWS birds. The LHS has the spit, the zero and the Me109

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Cheers,

GOK

[Jagzilla]

For what this is worth, I just built mine stock, and put a lot of down trim on the elevator. I've flown it that way for two years, and it's been a great plane.
The first one I built, I changed the wing incidence, and in comparison of the two, I just wouldn't bother to do it again. I know a lot of guys will flame this opinion, but it's my two cents worth.
Jag

[flypaper 2]

Hardest thing I found was the climb with added power. Cutting the rear of the saddle fixed that. After the fix, you could hammer on the throttle and the attitude wouldn't change. Not hard to do. The rear of the saddle is about 1/8 in. thick. Cut it down, tapering from back to front so the rear of the saddle is as thin as you can get it, about 1/64 in. thick. I used the slide out, small Olfa knife. Takes about half an hr. to do, after the fuse is glued together. Just keep cutting and fitting till you get it. In fact you can try it both ways. Try it stock. then cut it, to see the difference. If I remember right, I put a bit of downthrust in the motor too. Was a few yrs ago. :D

Gord.

[modfly]

For what this is worth, I just built mine stock, and put a lot of down trim on the elevator. I've flown it that way for two years, and it's been a great plane.
The first one I built, I changed the wing incidence, and in comparison of the two, I just wouldn't bother to do it again. I know a lot of guys will flame this opinion, but it's my two cents worth.
Jag

well..I might get flamed too but I think its a non issue.
mine is stock and flies just fine and I have never noticed any excessive climbing under power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTgmVyoNpBI

[Matt Halton]

I had one about 5 years ago, still in my attic somwehere, but powered with a Mega 16/15/5 and I think, 7x5 prop and retracts (Robart 1/2 A's) I jacked up the LE of the tail plane about 2 degrees, flew perfectly.

[GOK]

Thank You everyone for the feedback. I guess, Ill go ahead and buy the Zero, and see how she goes. I'll be using a light brushless on it, so the wing incidence issue might not be a problem :rolleyes:

Should I attempt installing the GWS blue retracts or would it be a futile effort?

Cheers,

GOK

[madpatter]

Just my recent experience. I bought the Zero Sloe glider a few months ago.

I tried it with a Grayson Hobbies motor and TP1320 LiPo and no wing mod and it did really fast loops... Took a while to get it down, even the slightest bit of power and it would climb. It did a cartwheel on the first landing, broke the wing a bit.

I epoxied the wing, lowered the trailing edge of the fuse where the wing mounts by a bit and now it is my favorite plane to fly. It still climbs with full throttle, but it flies great at half throttle.

[Nardoticus]

I have been complaining all week to people in my flying group about the tendency of the Zero (a modified Venom, which in turn is a modified GWS) to pull up when accelerating. This tendency is appearant both when powering the motor up as well as when diving. I wonder if Flypaper 2 could be clearer on what he means by cutting out the saddle. Maybe a picture? :)
Thanks,
Nardo

[flypaper 2]

Sorry, Don't have a way to do pics, but if you look at the fuse from the side, you'll see the lip of the flange at the back where the wing sits, is about 1/8 in. thick. If you taper it from the back to front, it will be about 1/64 in at the back, and the full thickness at the front. To put more downthrust in the motor I took a tapered shaving off the top front of the wood motor mount so it tilted down about 5 or 6 degrees, then glued a wedge on the bottom to fill the gap. Whatever it takes to be able to crank the throttle on from half throttle and it neither climbs or dives.

Gord

[Jim Petro]

Bought an expertly repaired GWS Zero at a swap meet; The first launch almost looped over and trird to get the back of my head! Apparrenty the first pilot had slower reflexes than I.
I didn't like the rear of the wing being not flush with the fuselage with the change of incidence required. Also didn't like the work to change the stabilizer angle. My solution was to move the balance foreward, added some downthrust to the motor and then used a little "down" elevator trim.
It took about 10 adjustment flights, but it never broke and we are good friends now.

[Nardoticus]

Thanks Gord,
That makes sense. Has anyone tried to add some down to both ailerons to achieve the same thing? I think I will try that first and see how it reacts. I did that to a Spitfire and it went from an out of control POS to a pussycat.
Nardo

[modfly]

Thanks Gord,
That makes sense. Has anyone tried to add some down to both ailerons to achieve the same thing? I think I will try that first and see how it reacts. I did that to a Spitfire and it went from an out of control POS to a pussycat.
Nardo


Gee..I did the opposite and added a little "UP" aileron and it stopped the TIP stall..when I tried a little down, plane would TIP stall..I land on pavement so I noticed the stall..I guess on grass landing its not as much of an issue.

Putting down ailerons in effect is adding "stallerons" to the spitfire.

[madpatter]

Somewhere out here on RC Groups is an excellent thread on the Zero with good pics of the wing mod. It is really easy, takes about 10 minutes to do it sloppy, probably 30 minutes to make it perfect. Mine was done sloppy and she flies great!

[gofish]

I have one that's been sitting for quite awhile unbuilt, and I've read about the incidence issue. I've always wondered why the horizonal stab incidence isn't changed instead of the wing. Seems to me it would be simpler. Any ideas?

[flypaper 2]

Wouldn't be a good idea to lower the ails. As said above, it acts like washin and will likey cause tipstalling. It would be to hard to cut the stab out once it's glued in. I have another one still in the crate out in the garage :p and am going to do just that. Raise the leading edge of the stab about 1/8 in.

Gord.

[Matt Halton]

The tail change in incidence is a breeze, seems the simplest way to me.

[Nardoticus]

I was pretty excited to try my solution to the Zero's tendency to pull up when accelerating :) . It seemed to me that if I put a slight amount of mechanical down flap into the ailerons that this might help without adversely affecting my launch or landing ability. It probably will increase the drag slightly, but not having enough top end is not a problem with my zero 8o . I put in about 2mm of down (meaning the trailing edge of the aileron is 2mm below the trailing edge of the wing), measured between the trailing edge of the aileron and the trailing edge of the wing near the fuselage on each wing. The result was a dramatic increase in the flyability of the zero. It now only pulls up very slightly when you put the hammer down. The only noticible down side is that it seems also to have slightly increased the tendency to torque roll on launch (I don't have a good explaination for this :confused: ). I also had to dial in some additional down elevator to trim properly. On the positive side it seems to have increased the zero's glide on landing, making it easier to land