Anyone know their way round an FF6 for 2.4GHz conversion?

[vintage1]

Basically I have been given an old FF8 with and Assan module in it. Which is gine, BUT the unit is so old te switches are unreliable and te pots scratch a little.

I am wondering about taking an Assan RF module and butchering an FF6 to take it, since I have one spare now, and I know my way around it.

I would basically want to remove/disable it's RF entirely, take the output from the encoder and shove that and the power into an Assan module, and probably wire a new antenna to replace the HF one entirely.

I'd like it to behave otherwise entirely normally - i.e. trainer switch should work, and normal charger stuff as well.

Probably extend the LED that comes on, on the Assan, and make a little hole in the case rear for it to poke through.

So anyone know where the relevant parts live in the FF6? Or have a full schematic?

[TheSteve]

I's start by opening up the FF6 and taking some good high res pictures to post.

[vintage1]

Wont get around to that today, but yes, a good idea..

[jmralves]

My contribution:

[vintage1]

OK, it looks like we cant lose the total RF board cost there's a lot else on it..so probably best to break into it at the trainer cord area.

I'll have a look see when I get time.

[vintage1]

OK, I had a god look and pulled one FF6 as far as I dared. I even read the mmanual.

1/. The trainer port is 4 wire: I surmise
- Power for slave TX..commoned between master and slave. Whichever set is 'on' supplies the power. I assume diodes feed this so that the slave transmitters RF section is not powered up.
- ground. Commoned.
- PPM out to slave
- PPM in from master.

This implies a buddy lead would cross two wires in it so that the In/Out pins connect correctly.

2/. Futaba slave Tx'es are explicitly used switched off: they take power from the master.

3/. The trainer switch is a simple push to close affair, so the selection of which PPM stream to apply to the RF stage must be in logic.

This suggests that some butchering will be required: It doesn't look easy to both go 2.4 and have the trainer switch still work.

Initial thoughts are to pick up power, signal and ground from the trainer port, and simply remove the crystal from the RF area.

Better would be to break into the final PPM stream to the RF section, after the trainer switch logic, and use that to drive the Assan, and remove all power from the RF section completely, along with the HF antenna. This will require cutting the right traces on the PCB though. And the mods will be fairly irreversible.






-

[jmralves]

My Thoughts too.

May be we can interrupt the traces in the pcb (the ones that feed the ppm signal to the RF pcb part), and then feed the signal to the 2,4GHz module.

With luck, it's easy to reverse the work if the things go wrong.

One Question,
The 2,4Ghz module accepts a clean ppm signal? If so, why are multiplex owners playing with pics (processor) to change the signal that came from the multiplex radios (there is some threads in rcg with the success changing).

[vintage1]

My Thoughts too.

May be we can interrupt the traces in the pcb (the ones that feed the ppm signal to the RF pcb part), and then feed the signal to the 2,4GHz module.

With luck, it's easy to reverse the work if the things go wrong.


Yes. I probably need to get a scope to mine,which will take a visit to a not so local friend.



One Question,
The 2,4Ghz module accepts a clean ppm signal? If so, why are multiplex owners playing with pics (processor) to change the signal that came from the multiplex radios (there is some threads in rcg with the success changing).

I really don't know: Have you got more detail on that?

[WimH]

One Question,
The 2,4Ghz module accepts a clean ppm signal? If so, why are multiplex owners playing with pics (processor) to change the signal that came from the multiplex radios (there is some threads in rcg with the success changing).

1) For Futaba Fasst, they need to for different reasons...(pulse polarity, failsafe etc.)
2) for Assan, nothing is needed...All I did with my MPX Cockpit was connect the X8F module to my trainer input plug

[supershuey]

hi

i got a ff6 here that i wanted too put too 2.4 assan as well
i was hoping just too wire the module on too the trainer port wires
is this possible

thanx
Dylan

[vintage1]

Its possible: A good friend who calls hinself WorkInProgress :cool: is possibly gong to donate and even older Futaba for me to hack, as he thinks my FF6's are too nice to spoil.

I've been up to my :censored: in show stuff and garden work - just layed a nice slab base for a greenhouse, so this project has gone on a back burner till probably those long winter nights when I can blag a 'scope and start committing electrical buggery on an old Futaba.:D

[village_idiot]

Those old gold metal box Futabas should have an RF module with pins inside.

[supershuey]

hi

do you know where we can find which pins i need too put the
wires from the ff6 too the module pins :confused:
ive got the ff6 taken apart and have just got the 4 wires from the
trainer socket but no idea which ones go where in the module :confused:

thanx
Dylan

[village_idiot]

looking at the connector on the module, with antenna connection away from you they are (left to right)

-not connected (RF out)
-ground
-ground (RF OK)
-power (battery +)
-PPM (with pull up resistor supplying pull up voltage)

The middle pin is really for the RF OK light which gets pulled to ground when the RF is good. Since you are using the trainer port, it won't matter and you can leave it not connected.

Now you may have a problem in connecting this to the trainer port. As far as I know, the trainer port will have an inverted PPM pulse compared to the normal RF module connection, so you may need to make an inverting buffer out of an NPN transistor.

[supershuey]

hi

thanx for the info any idea how or where i could find out which wire are which in the ff6 :D


Dylan

[village_idiot]

If it uses the standard Futaba trainer port, then pin 4 is battery voltage, pin 5 powers the computer (but not RF). I think pin 1 is PPM out and pin2 is ground, but I could have that backwards. Not sure what pin 6 does but it might be DSC on radios that support the feature. This is from memory and I usually look it upp before doing work to make sure I have it right. Search for Futaba trainer plug pinouts and you should find the correct info. Just make sure to check as not everyone actually looked at the pin number on the connector, and I have found them listed with wrong numbers to the pins.

Can't help with grabbing it on the main board as I don't have one of these radios.

[supershuey]

hi

thanx vi :rolleyes:

[supershuey]

hi


thanx for all your help ive now down my mates ff6 too 2.4 and he loves it :p


thanx again

Dylan

[alfoot]

Hi,

I have been using a V1 Corona module in my ancient first generation Field Force 7 transmitter (7UA) without any problems for over a year. I also have a couple of FF6 transmitters, and so I thought that I might be able to use the trainer port to get the Corona module to operate in a similar way to the Assan one described in this thread so far.

I made up a cable so that I got the -ve, +ve and ppm signal from the port in accordance with the attached pin diagram (-ve to the plug shell, +ve to pin 1 and signal wire to pin 2). I assumed that the pin arrangement for the Corona module would be the same as for an Assan module so I connected the signal wire to the far right hole in the module ( as I looked into them with the aerial of the module away from me), the +ve into the next hole and the -ve into the next but one. I removed the transmitter crystal.

The module light lit up OK and the receiver light was also lit, but the servos on my "control" aircraft went to full deflection with high frequency buzz. When I put the module back into the Field Force 7, it all worked OK.

I read earlier that the signal might be reversed and it might need a ppm signal inverter. Can anyone confirm if this will be required, or have I done something else wrong?

Thanks in advance,

Al Foot

[phil_g]

Hi Vintage,
I'm not sure what the Assan module expects wrt ppm levels & polarity but Futaba o/p stands at 5v pulsing to deck:
Phil

[alfoot]

Hi,

An update to my earlier post. I tried my lead on my second FF6 transmitter with the same results.

My Voltmeter gave transmitter volts at pin 1 of the trainer port and about 3.5 Volts at pin 2 if that's of any help to the experts.

Al

[village_idiot]

Sounds like the FF6 has a different pin configuration. Without owning one it will be hard to verify. Otherwise it might be that the Corona module needs the PPM to be inverted.

[alfoot]

Hi,

I just thought I'd let the group know that I managed to get the Corona V1 module to work with the FF6 transmitter by building the PPM signal inverter circuit as per the attached diagram, which I found on this very helpful site here:-

http://users.belgacom.net/TX2TX/tx2tx/english/tx2txgb7.htm

I hope that the site owner doesn't mind it being reproduced.

To the right of the Zener diode, the +ve from the transmitter trainer port ("+V switched" in the diagram) is connected to the +ve on the Corona module, "In" goes to the module PPM, and "Ground" goes to the module -ve.

I didn't have the BC547C so I used a BC107, and it seems to work OK.

I managed to solder all of the components inside the DIN plug cover.

I now just need to devise an elegant way of holding the Corona module/aerial to the main body of the transmitter. I need to keep the body of the module clean because I still use the module in other transmitters. I recently bought a Futaba 10C transmitter and it works fine in that, for example, as well as my ancient 7UAP.

Hope this helps anyone else who wants to give new blood to their FF6.

Al

[BenziT]

Hi,

I have been using a V1 Corona module in my ancient first generation Field Force 7 transmitter (7UA) without any problems for over a year. I also have a couple of FF6 transmitters, and so I thought that I might be able to use the trainer port to get the Corona module to operate in a similar way to the Assan one described in this thread so far.

I made up a cable so that I got the -ve, +ve and ppm signal from the port in accordance with the attached pin diagram (-ve to the plug shell, +ve to pin 1 and signal wire to pin 2). I assumed that the pin arrangement for the Corona module would be the same as for an Assan module so I connected the signal wire to the far right hole in the module ( as I looked into them with the aerial of the module away from me), the +ve into the next hole and the -ve into the next but one. I removed the transmitter crystal.

The module light lit up OK and the receiver light was also lit, but the servos on my "control" aircraft went to full deflection with high frequency buzz. When I put the module back into the Field Force 7, it all worked OK.

I read earlier that the signal might be reversed and it might need a ppm signal inverter. Can anyone confirm if this will be required, or have I done something else wrong?

Thanks in advance,

Al Foot

same problem :(

any help ??

Thanks

[alfoot]

Hi Benzit,

Our posts must have crossed - see my solution in the previous post to yours :)

Al

[BenziT]

Hi Benzit,

Our posts must have crossed - see my solution in the previous post to yours :)

Al

:)

Thanks.

[BenziT]

SPECIAL thanks to alfoot and sebbe !!!!!!


PPM SIGNAL CONVERTER - Not needed if you use Assan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/BenziT/P1000891.jpg

Completed :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/BenziT/P1000894.jpg

Video of my FF6 with Corona Ver 2 ( FUTABA )

Futaba FF6 on Corona 2.4 ver 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kowCncZLi1k)


it works..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/BenziT/P1000868copy.jpg

Hi,

I just thought I'd let the group know that I managed to get the Corona V1 module to work with the FF6 transmitter by building the PPM signal inverter circuit as per the attached diagram, which I found on this very helpful site here:-

http://users.belgacom.net/TX2TX/tx2tx/english/tx2txgb7.htm

I hope that the site owner doesn't mind it being reproduced.

To the right of the Zener diode, the +ve from the transmitter trainer port ("+V switched" in the diagram) is connected to the +ve on the Corona module, "In" goes to the module PPM, and "Ground" goes to the module -ve.

I didn't have the BC547C so I used a BC107, and it seems to work OK.

I managed to solder all of the components inside the DIN plug cover.

I now just need to devise an elegant way of holding the Corona module/aerial to the main body of the transmitter. I need to keep the body of the module clean because I still use the module in other transmitters. I recently bought a Futaba 10C transmitter and it works fine in that, for example, as well as my ancient 7UAP.

Hope this helps anyone else who wants to give new blood to their FF6.

Al

[n3m1s1s]

hi everyone can someone please help me install a assan module (that i used in a ff7 fine) into a ff6 50th edition please? i would like the easiest way possible :) dont care aboutthe trainer port as it will never be used and dont care about the rf? bit? only interested in running the TX for ground stuff and its been sat waiting for me to bin so i might aswell give it a 9th life and try and squeeze a few more years out of it eh?

thanx in advance :)

[BenziT]

Hi,



I made up a cable so that I got the -ve, +ve and ppm signal from the port in accordance with the attached pin diagram (-ve to the plug shell, +ve to pin 1 and signal wire to pin 2). I assumed that the pin arrangement for the Corona module would be the same as for an Assan module so I connected the signal wire to the far right hole in the module ( as I looked into them with the aerial of the module away from me), the +ve into the next hole and the -ve into the next but one. I removed the transmitter crystal.


Al Foot


http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/5/2/9/1/5/a2671537-113-fig7f-01.gif

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/5/2/9/1/5/a2671538-37-04090010.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/BenziT/P1000868copy.jpg


Hi..

Follow the instructions above.

Not sure if the Assan model needs a ppm inverter. The X8-D does not.

Try it out and let us how it went :)

Good luck.

[BenziT]

deleted

[n3m1s1s]

ok before i get started last check question,

can i bypass that trainer board all together and wire directly to the connector for the board? or would that be a bad thing?

or tracing the lines back each of those connections go to a leg on the 3 blue (resisters/capasitors/thingy-ma-jigs?) could i link to there instead? bypassing that board would be ideal but i dont know how important the res of the board is :)

[alfoot]

Hi n3m1s1s,

I think that you could do either of your suggestions.

A Futaba Skysport transmitter was converted to using an Assan 2.4 GHz module in the following thread:-

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=970828&highlight=ff6

So far as I can tell, the trainer port board on the Skysport looks, from the photos in that thread, to be the same as the FF6 one. It also seems as if there is no need for the PPM inverter circuit for the Assan module.

Hope this helps, let us know how you get on,

Al

[n3m1s1s]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU

erm i am very happy chappy right now, cut the wires from my trainer port added wires to my assan x8f turned it on and assan booted up as normal ON MY FUTABA FF6 50th Edition :D

switched off then on again and wiggled my elevator stick and assan went straight into bind mode :D

havnt linked my rx to tx yet but already know it will be fine so........

THANK YOU EVERYONE :D

ps, for anyone thinking about doing it and not being sure? the most dificult part of this mod was cutting the wires from the trainer port lol but i switched on the tx without the trainer port plugged in b4 cutting just to make sure the tx would fire up if all else failed :)

[BenziT]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU THANK YOU :) THANK YOU

erm i am very happy chappy right now, cut the wires from my trainer port added wires to my assan x8f turned it on and assan booted up as normal ON MY FUTABA FF6 50th Edition :D

switched off then on again and wiggled my elevator stick and assan went straight into bind mode :D

havnt linked my rx to tx yet but already know it will be fine so........

THANK YOU EVERYONE :D

ps, for anyone thinking about doing it and not being sure? the most dificult part of this mod was cutting the wires from the trainer port lol but i switched on the tx without the trainer port plugged in b4 cutting just to make sure the tx would fire up if all else failed :)


congrats !!! do post some pics or videos :)

[BenziT]

one question. why is it that the assan FUTABA model does not need a ppm inverter while a corona FUTABA model needs one.

[BenziT]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/BenziT/P1000892.jpg

[rufera]

The assan is pulse positive and negative detected automatic!!!
Not inversor!!!]

[BenziT]

The assan is pulse positive and negative detected automatic!!!
Not inversor!!!]

Thanks !