Amateur Ds Junkies

[quadshot]

Well I thought I would start a thread for all us amateur ds junkies. Us guys who love ds'ing whether we are ds'ing our weasel or carbon ship. Us who are not on the list of fastest ds'ers in the world, but just love to do it for the rush and the fun of it.

Not that I have anything against the guys who make the Big Dog list or are trying to go 400 mph. These guys are our mentors, the pros, our inspiration. But I like dsing just to ds. Like golfing just to golf, or surfing just to surf. Just because I can't golf as good as Tiger or surf as good as Slater, it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the sport, and I love watching and learning from the pro's as well.

So anyway, this thread is dedicated to all the amateur ds'ers out there who are not trying to fly 300 mph, and are thrilled just to dive into any backside no mater what the speed for the fun of the game.

So all are welcome if you love the darkside.

Chris


Ok so my friends and I are having so much fun with the Pep Boys radar gun at our local DS site in Poway, CA they wanted me to keep our speeds in the first post, so we can keep track of them in one place.

Understand this is not about being the fastest in the world. Were talking about a small backside with plane eating six foot bushes in 5-10 mph winds. We are laughing, pushing, talkin smack, and encouraging each other the entire time.

So if you haven't flown faster than 100mph yet (if you have your still an Amateur DS Junkie, but way better than most of us), let us know and we will post it, especial if you break 100 for the first time, and we will add you to the Century Club.


UNIQUE SPEEDS:
?mph ?????, slowest DS curcuits, ?????
59mph Greg, INVERTED DS, 48" wing, Bills Hill
70 MPH, Bungee launch to DS curcuit, Weasel, Quadshot

EasyStar:
53mph Quadshot, EasyStar (yes EasyStar), Bills Hill
59mph Greg, modified EasyStar, Bills Hill

BALSA OR DLG PLANES:
43 MPH Freeglide, Nano Flow Poway


FOAM WINGS AND THINGS:
44 MPH Radioglitch, Raider, Poway
49 MPH Freeglide, Weasel, Poway
50 MPH Rockbus, Weasel, Poway
60 MPH Indubitably, Weasel, Weldon
65 mph Quadshot, Weasel, Bills Hill
70mph, Quadshot, WW Slayer, Parker


FOAM PLANKS, PSS, OTHER UNDER 60":
50 MPH Mr. Robert, Moth, Poway
60 MPH Mr Robert, Cobalt, Poway


FOAM PLANKS, PSS, OTHER OVER 60":
64 MPH Mr Robert JW60, Poway
69 MPH Freeglide, M60, Poway
70 MPH Rockbus, HP60, Poway


COMPOSITES:
73 MPH Quadshot, Carbon Bird, Poway
77mph Quadshot, Carbon Bird, Bills Hill
80mph Wr Mizzard, Wisper, Bills Hill
82mph Freeglide, Blade, Bills Hill
82mph Rockbus, Carbon Blade, Bills Hill
85mph Freeglide, Mini Destiny, Bills Hill
85mph Rockbus, Machdart, Bills Hill
91mph Jduartep, MiniBlade, Bills Hill
92.4mph Oranator, Opus Flat nose, Bills Hill
94 Wr Mizzard, Blast, Bills Hill
95 Freeglide, Nemisis, Bills Hill


CENTURY CLUB:
108 Greg, Destiny, Bills Hill
112 Wr. Mizzard, ???, Weldon
111 Freeglide Opus, Bills Hill
113 Quadshot, Ruby, Norco
122 Jduartup, Windmills
128 Rockbus, Windmills
150 Freeglide, Windmills
15? Greg, Norco


PERSONAL BEST OVER 100MPH:
111 Paul, carbon destiny, Bills Hill

[quadshot]

Here is a little video of what I am talking about that I took last Sunday. It is my friends James and Ray ds'ing together on the backside of Poway, just having a blast chasing each other around with their mustang and weasel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3utxqA9TGiU

[KingOfTheHill]

I love DS'ing stuff that shouldnt be doing it.. let me see what goofy plane DS'ers i can dig up... hehehehe..

JOe

[quadshot]

Here is me with my Bird on the same day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba58d7rIbCM



The crash sound is from a kid on the front side crashing his wing in the bush about 5 feet away from me. I still jump everytime I hear it on the video, because earlier that day I piled my mini blade into the tree/bush at the very bottom of the hill, and on the video that is right where my Bird is when the kid hit the bush.

First time I crashed my composite plane dsing, and it was a spectacular one. I did not realize that I was that low, and right when I was pulling back on the stick POW into the side of the tree. Oh well first time for everything. Composites just don't bounce back like foam does. I will post a picture of the wing damage. when I take it.

[screamin' eagle]

Weasel DS is a kick in the pants! I had a blast with mine Friday at Parker after my JW had a servo go south. At 71 mph, the Weasel's fin blew clean off!

[quadshot]

And finally last but not least, my buddy Mark the weekend before dsing composite (mini destiny) for the first time at the Bump in Temecula. This guy might go pro!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31EWvSu0epA

[quadshot]

Yeah I just bought new aileron stock tonight to get my weasel in shape to ds this weekend after seeing Ray have so much fun with his.

That would be a cool part of this thread. what weird planes have you actually ds, like King of the Hill mentioned.

[quadshot]

Our problem here in San Diego (esoecially Poway) is not having enough lift to dive in the back. Once you get on the backside you can keep going and going. We spend most our time scratching the frontside with our moths just to get high enough to get a good dive, after that it's cake.

That's were the weasel really shines.

Also I was thinking of getting a bungy to launch with for Poway. That would get is up plenty high and then your golden.

[wr_mizzard]

Nice idea for a thread Chris... here's a start for my contributions.


http://www.vimeo.com/823376


Mini Salto Palomar College Hill DS video (http://www.dailymotion.com/wr_mizzard/video/x3fi6j_palomar-college-ds_extreme)

Mini Salto Blossom DS video (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=18530856)

Onboard video of Zagi DS'ng chain link fence at The Wall (http://www.dailymotion.com/wr_mizzard/video/x3bulw_faraday-slope-ds_tech)

-James

[quadshot]

James that is the video I always think of when I thought of starting this thread of you with your foam PSS at Blossom!

Thanks for adding it. Way cool.

[softtail4taz]

Well I thought I would start a thread for all us amateur ds junkies. Us guys who love ds'ing whether we are ds'ing our weasel or carbon ship. Us who are not on the list of fastest ds'ers in the world, but just love to do it for the rush and the fun of it.

Not that I have anything against the guys who make the Big Dog list or are trying to go 400 mph. These guys are our mentors, the pros, our inspiration. But I like dsing just to ds. Like golfing just to golf, or surfing just to surf. Just because I can't golf as good as Tiger or surf as good as Slater, it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the sport, and I love watching and learning from the pro's as well.

So anyway, this thread is dedicated to all the amateur ds'ers out there who are not trying to fly 300 mph, and are thrilled just to dive into any backside no mater what the speed for the fun of the game.

So all are welcome if you love the darkside.

Chris
Don't sell yourself short. Every one on the big dog list started out as a amateur. The problem is the faster you go, Just makes you want to go even faster next time. And before you know it, your trying to crack 300mph It will happen to you too. Good luck :) Scott

[rockbus]

Good Job Chris. Nice vids James.

[quadshot]

And James you DS'ing the fence at the wall with your zagi is the most bizzar dsing I have ever seen. So wild! Exactly what this thread is all about.

[quadshot]

Here is me all by myself up at Hodges with my mini blade (RIP) a couple months back. Sure nice not having all the bushes on the hill like Poway.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucIbdn5uQPA

[KingOfTheHill]

the $20 Hobby People Wild Wing Slope convert...

strongest "DS Trainer" i know of.

http://vimeo.com/1152993

[Parker Bob]

Thats the one that got me hooked, I think you recommended that to me early on JOe, the mighty Wild Wing!

[quadshot]

Thanks Scott for the encouragement.

[KingOfTheHill]

Thats the one that got me hooked, I think you recommended that to me early on JOe, the mighty Wild Wing!

bang for the buck can not be beat... i built one with a new guy at parker ON the top of the hill while waiting for the wind to build :D .... took less than an hour, LOL.

JOe

[quadshot]

Hey JOe that is classic. The Wild Wing! I help a guy at Daves beach convert his to a sloper and was so surprised how well it sloped the frontside, before I even tasted dsing. From your video that thing rocks the backside. I have an extra 20 in my pocket (thats about all:) so I am going to have to pick one up, and throw some old gear in her.

[FreeGlide]

Great thread Chris. Nice work on the videos too, they keep getting better.
Just about got the MD back on her feet, can't wait to get my fix :D Let's keep in touch for the weekend.

Mark

[daboz]

I like DSing my NYX and Stratos most... Not for Speed just for fun Acro stuff, 10-20mph wind speed and 75-150mph airplane speed. I think there is so much more to DS than just speed, way more...

Chris

Vid of the Nyx at Parker in 20 going one fifty or so... (http://www.rcspeeds.com/aircraftdetails.aspx?AC=132)

[Daemon]

Same here. My Fazer F3J has more DS miles on it than any other
crunchie in my hangar, and it flutters somewhere around 100mph. ;)
I was really getting to enjoy my Crossfire F3B at Weldon as a pure DS acro
plane and looked forward to DSing it at Jones Pass later this summer,
until the wind picked up to 25-30mph or so and it blew up in the air. Oh well.

ian

[The Predator]

Rock on Homies!
I always LOVED the simpler cheaper side of this hobby mated with DS. Wacky planes doing cool and sometimes silly stuff.
Loved the PSS DS vid Wister Misard! Saw a Mig do that too once, WAY cool/SUREAL!
And many others, THANK-YOU Ameturs. Excellent IDEA. Now I have a place post!

Here's my BEST advice, find cheap performance ships, like JOe's wild wing, a Bee, or whatever can take a beating, then come back and KEEP you grinning some more! Huge BANG for the buck, next to NO break/heart break. The weasel seems to be a good one too from recent reports.
The speed thing IS AWESOME but, being new, being on a buget, and NOT living next to a WR site make this endevor is limited for me though extremely exciting fun & dangerous. . . .
I've never flown/seen a TRUE WR site myself, I think we may have one site that MIGHT be WR about <10 days a year since access is VERY limited to it due to snow.

I do not fly in a circle that much either. No Need, I've seen 110MPH LOTS and lots of times, the best our sites deliver consistantly. Watching a wing going 100MPH knife edge so low the wing tip is actually below bush top level come SCREAMING up the hill while rolling inverted to CHOP the bush tops off at the lip proper. . . and then see the ship just KEEP screaming along as the clippings come fluttering back to earth is EPIC! I had that happen recently and, I was tickled pink! I exploded that ship an hr. later going WAY TOO FAST on an early down wind turn/entry into cliff face. I think our site was delivering higher speed that day then is usual. It costed me about $35 and 4 hrs to replace the WHOLE build and one shattered servo. It was SOOO worth it! That is the life I hope for with my ships, a blaze of AWESOME glory! and little stress once it finds the ground. If you can perfect cheap easy quick perfomance builds of WHATEVER you'll be DSing to your heart's content and not chillen in front of the build table wondering what the DS homies are up to! and broke!
If you have money to burn on your beloved hobby, THAT'S a different story! Go BIG!
Either way, early on, with common diggers, get something that comes back for MORE just to make the most of ANY good day till you can sort of DECIDE when you want insane flight/crashing happening or NOT. Then fancy cruchie. I never grew out of the "crashing" phase and I only DS foamies. May have a bit to do with vast rock feilds for LZs too?

[The End]

Poway is a blast.... it is a crack up to come up the path and drag a wingtip through some bushes and still pull it off.

I got to find the video of Pismo and I meeting right at the top....Whammoo

Hmmmm..... Whammoo sounds like two cows crashing...

[quadshot]

Here Here! Perfectly said Mr. Predator

[quadshot]

Yeah Mr End. No better combo than Pismo and Poway.

It is so cool to be and the bottom of the hill, hear your wing going through the bushes, and pulling it off. (Especially knowing you are not going to have to walk down to the bottom to get your plane which usually happens when your plane makes a bush noise)

[jduartep]

I know! sometimes you even have to climb and roll to get your plane, but still is so much fun.

[wr_mizzard]

Photos from Joshua Tree National Park, June 7, 2008.
Hans Hombauer/Photographer
James Mueller/Pilot (still scared of snakes on the backside)

-James

[quadshot]

Hey james those are some plane eating bushes. Poway's cake compared to those things.

Flip flops, short, in the desert? I think you'll be ok with your rattle snake trama.

[KingOfTheHill]

i found an old video fo me dsing a handlaunch plane?... dont really know the purpose of it but its the Colibri-V from arthobby.com.... i'll post it later.

JOe

[prplgoat]

here is a clip of my LEG p-51 at parker.

you tube resolution murdered it though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sUVHZ3WWHI

marty

[Jantar2A]

I just love ds combat! Thats some real fun,,,That and the sound of about 6 J-dub's ripping it up..Oh yeh and warbird ds is fun too...well as long as its ds it's gotta be fun.


N

[KurtMc]

Here's a little footage from yesterday's 'slope flu' substitute for work :) I added 6 oz of ballast to my JW 54 and she went from 'fun' to ballistic on the back in 20 mph winds. Tempted to add another 6 oz. :cool:

Marty - you're right about Youtube compression thrashing vids. I'm going to look into Vimeo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9Q_8h-ktY

[screamin' eagle]

i found an old video fo me dsing a handlaunch plane?... dont really know the purpose of it but its the Colibri-V from arthobby.com.... i'll post it later.

JOe

I remember that Colibri video. I had an ArtHobby Falco at the time and after watching the vid I tried DSing it too - all the way up into the mid 40mph range (no radar, LOL) :eek:

[daboz]

Here's a little footage from yesterday's 'slope flu' substitute for work :) I added 6 oz of ballast to my JW 54 and she went from 'fun' to ballistic on the back in 20 mph winds. Tempted to add another 6 oz. :cool:

Marty - you're right about Youtube compression thrashing vids. I'm going to look into Vimeo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9Q_8h-ktY

email or post it in hi res and I will put it on the jw page on rcspeeds

chris@rcspeeds.com if you email vid keep em under 60mb

[The Predator]

I'm STOKED. I was starting to think I was basically a lone FREAK doing this stuff! Love the vids! I am so happy to know that unconventional DS of MANY types is not just some silly concoction! I wish we were all closer together!
I wear flip flops on cactus strewn, rattle snake infested desert ridges and slopes TOO, LOL! It helps me stay WAY cooler but my feet come home SOO dirty the shower floor may never be the SAME! On a practical note. Rattle snakes ARE a reality for many of us. Whenever I have a wing in my hand and I'm hiking in snake country, I always keep a wingtip low and in front of my feet regardless of footwear for a foam shield and decoy for the snakes to munch on! LOL, SERIOUSLY though!

If the ships are going INSANELY fast over head I have to make the call. Foam shield for the head back and neck, or snake shield. Usually I cover my head! ESPECIALLY if Nick is around! I still have that video of HIS PSS Design DSing at Jones too, that was CRAZY!

He and I have had some of THE NASTIEST DS arco combat EVER last fall! 28 ozs Predator ZomBee-asts (Full burrly coat covered) Ripping DS arco to set up for shear line entry/exit heads! Tails were lost, ships were crashed. It was SWEET! We LAUGHED! Maybe not something to do in a crowd though?

I've been learning copious amount about DS and design of DS wings and planks for the last year or more. If you guys are interested, I'd like to offer up some of this experience and, I was thinking site selection and analysis would be GREAT info for us amateurs to have. Hopefully Nick and Ian will chime in with some of their experience too! It is some serious work for me so, I want there to be interest if I'm going to do it.

What chu all tik, Brothers? This type of knowledge lead me to one of my favorite and most dynamic DS sites, right in my back yard too! I'll toss in some ideal weather conditions too since it is inseparably related!
I LOVE the spirit of this thread! Makes me feel that excited anticipation again, like being a high school VIRGIN, LOL! Or maybe part of it is from the HIGH I'm still on from yesterday's SESH! OMG!

[daboz]

:D Had a lot of fun DSing my LedSled P51 Mustang at Norco

Man that thing was fast,,, it was great till I got it a little low on the back side, what a crash. AND at 4 or five pounds, only two servos and ultra thin wings she was a bit to handel on the landings... lol

Got a new 4+ pounder, DS, led sled now,, te he just for Weldon. I'll make sure I get Video.

MAN the Led Sleds are so fast, look cool, sound cool but a little hard to DS at those speeds,, what fun!!!!!!!

[wr_mizzard]

Marty - you're right about Youtube compression thrashing vids. I'm going to look into Vimeo.


Vimeo is WAAAAYYYYY better than YouTube... make the change, if not for yourself, at least for those of us who like to watch the vids. Though, as with all the video sites, the quality of your video in the first place is what really matters.

I love the P51 DS footage and that site for the JW looks nice. Keep 'em comin'

-James

[GreggB]

Anyone interested going to the bump SAT. Here is a vid of one of my first DS attemps last OCT. 60" is a little challanging. Now with 115" and loving it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgmGC2Gi6I

[Ward Hagaman]

Anyone interested going to the bump SAT. Here is a vid of one of my first DS attemps last OCT. 60" is a little challanging. Now with 115" and loving it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgmGC2Gi6I


Is the bump a secret spot? Or could you give directions?

Not sure but I might be able to fly Sat--

[wr_mizzard]

Anyone interested going to the bump SAT. Here is a vid of one of my first DS attemps last OCT. 60" is a little challanging. Now with 115" and loving it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgmGC2Gi6I


I totally want to go there!! What, do you have a whistle on that shark?

-James

[quadshot]

Hey everyone, Great stuff. I am glad everyone is so stoked on this tread. I just knew there were others out their like myself.

You guys crack me up. Looks like I am going to get inspired to reserect all the planes in the MIA pile. I have a colibi that needs a little TLC and would be really cool to DS, as well as my Apache, Scrappy, Zipper, Weasel... The weasel will be ready this weekend, and I can't wait to dive her in.

Mr Predator, great idea of using your plane as a rattle snake decoy. Never even thought about that, and have been a bit stressed with the news here in San Diego saying that the strengh of the venom seems to have increased and that over 20 people have been hospitalized this year already.

Also, I would love to hear your research and insights about DSing in this thread. I have only been DSing for a couple months and would love to see your wisdom on the subject.

Oh well lunch time is over, back to counting beans. I can't wait to get home to watch all the new video on this thread. Work has the video links blocked, but at least Rcgroups is not.

Keep the faith!
Chris

[GreggB]

The bump is actually in the city of Winchester. Winchester Rd and Benton are the major cross streets. Just north of that @ Winchester and Pourroy(not sure on spelling). Cant miss it from there , road cut into face of hill. For anyone wanting to come up please post for better directions. Sat shows to be perfect for DS. *****PLEASE DRIVE SLOWLY ON DIRT ROAD NEAR HOMES*******

[EagleOne]

Hi GreggB

Is this the location that your‘re talking about, nice little bump, does it works well with a south-west wind?
I wish you could fly at Diamond Valley Reservoir up at the vista point that over looks the west dam, would be a neat place to fly also, If you could, I don’t think MWD will give you permission too.

John

[GreggB]

You've found it. SW winds are perfect for DS here. I went up yesterday and today and it was great. 10-15 on front = about 80-100 on back. I live about 2 miles from hill and go up after work when its good. This weekend should be about the same.
And yes , whistle on the Shark. Kind of cool but gets irritating after a while. However this was my first few learning days and to tell you the truth it really helped out finding the sweet spots when conditions were light like that. you could easily hear when the plane would speed up and give you the confidence that you would make it back up.
Wind usually builds up by 2PM till about 7PM

[KingOfTheHill]

Found it...

little and very light handlaunch colibri-v.... good flyer.

JOe

http://www.vimeo.com/1163947

[prplgoat]

very cool JOe!
the sound is so cool!

marty

[The Predator]

I think it would be cool if we could some how calibrate size (wing span) with speed. So you could say JOe was doing OK at 72MPH but with a 36" size handicap and the size adjusted speed is XXX I think he was RIPPING!!! Maybe have the 60"er class be the default, no handicaps one way or the other and actual penalties for LARGER ships, over 60". I propose this idea to show pilots of smaller and larger ships where they are at in terms of DEMANDED skill to achieve said speed with an given wing span. I guess it would really be a skill index. It takes the same skill to fly a 72" plank at 130MPH or a 36" at say 60MPH.
I have a new 72" plank I've been flying PRETTY fast lately and it is REAL easy for me to DS at speed compared to progressively smaller ships.
Perhaps just dividing the speed, in MPH, by the span, in inches. I just ran the #'s above and they seem reasonable 1.8 skill index for the 72" at 130MPH and 1.67 for the 36" at 60MPH or 72MPH over 36" is a straight 2 on the skill index . That makes a 110" going 300MPH 2.7 on the skill index. That's not too far off either from what I know, just a bit high I think but, the extra .3 -.4 jump (total guess) could be attributed to the differences between a foamie and carbon ship because obviously a super high end CF moulie will be easier to fly then ANY foamie ever was.
I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree in these areas to allow me to see all the variables involved, this is just a start but, I really like this concept just get a rough idea about the required skill level to fly ANYTHING of ANY size fast. I think using current records for all the different size ships could further help us establish a formula to roughly judge relative skill levels.
This will NEVER be a perfect system, ignoring TONS of other factors like wind speed and AUW but, I do think it would be a quick and helpful way to roughly asses speed achievements of any pilots with any ship. Just a general guide. Anyone smart enough to refine this idea any? I've exceeded my RAM already!

I had a crazy magic DS day yesterday and I posted on it in the slope forum- front range thread if you have any interest. . . a bit long winded as usual, LOL
I will do a small blerb on "how to recognize GREAT DS sites and conditions" because this is some KEY stuff to going from, Ya I'm doing it. . . barely . . . OPPS! to Was that INSAIN or WHAT? !!! The first part is to recognise that the site and conditions are inseperably tied to one another and you DS experience is completely dependant on the interaction between the two and their resultant products! Front side air (speed, lift component, degrees off angle, and general turbulence), shear (depth, height, angle and uniformity), and back side air (spills, flows, leaks, general turbulence, or calm). ALL that stuff is KEY and a bit more concerning air mass composition, pressure, temperature, relative temperatures, convection, and instability. Terrain shapes, causing leaks, back side flows, slope angle and lip shape affect the situation too. . . OMG This is ALOT of interplaying variables, years worth really. I'll do what I can to go breif and simple but, the topic is ANYTHING but simple and a complex understanding of the situation DEFINITELY has its rewards!

In JOe's video you can hear wind noise on the camera mic generally during most of his rougher laps, and less noise during his fastest passes. Turbulence is getting to the camera mic, the wind noise you hear, and JOe's plane, scrubbing off speed and slapping that little ship around, at roughly the same moment. Obviouly JOe knows how to fly a smooth circle so, we can be fairly sure about this assessment, not so easy with a rookie all over the place, since it is harder to differenciate pilot induced FUNCK and air induced funk with a shakey fingered pilot. . . .

[quadshot]

Greg wish I could make it up to the bump Saturday, but it looks like I will be at Poway with a bunch of my San Diego friends. Would love to watch you ds the bump and get your insight there.

[quadshot]

Wow Predator great stuff. totally right on way to look at it.

[quadshot]

I'm excited I just found 25' of surgical tubing at the local medical supply store! So whether the lift is good on the frontside of Poway or not, as long as there is wind, the DSing will be great on the backside. Bungee launch, dive right in DS'ing tomorrow baby!!! There is going to be alot of giggling like a school girl (actually "boy") stuff going on. Can't wait.

Chris

[The End]

Sooo,

What is the latest on Poway access?

[Ward Hagaman]

Sooo,

What is the latest on Poway access?

According to my Weight Watchers Online Points Calculator, the Poway hike earns 2 "Activity Points", which is equivalent to one large banana, one Yoplait Light yogurt, or one string cheese.

[wr_mizzard]

According to my Weight Watchers Online Points Calculator, the Poway hike earns 2 "Activity Points", which is equivalent to one large banana, one Yoplait Light yogurt, or one string cheese.


How many "activity points" for picking up your plane from the backside... running from rattlesnakes?

-James

[quadshot]

I am a bad boy, and just pop the gate at the top with weed wacker plastic string (.065"). I have not been hastled for a long time. Just try and keep it low key and respectful. Also with the rattle snake danger, I don't want to be huffing myself all the way down the hill if I got bit. Have not seen a snake yet out there, but I am sure they are around.

That's my excuse, what's yours? :o)

[The Predator]

I'm going for a mini bungie launcher too, eventually. I have a few lead sled ships that are pretty marginal in light front side air but, they REALLY get going if I get just get that first dip into the back going!
No more ideas on a skill index?
I have not seen a single snake this year either, and now I regret even saying it! Here they come!

[quadshot]

Hey Predetor, I hate to say it that even though I am an accountant, I am terable at doing math in my head. Also, since I am so new to dsing I have never even dsed with a radar gun around.

That said, I think wind speed would have to be factored in. But maybe not since I guess your factoring in is based on the fact that a smaller plane going 50 is the same as a large plane going 100. I have not read anything on that principle, yet I have heard people mention it. I would be great if you could explain that perspective or throw up a link that does.

On the fun practical side. If you are at the slope with someone with a radar gun. The 60"er's speed would be the base and have a zero factor and everyone else could use your factor to see who is really going the fastest based on plane size. Is that what you are refering to? I think that would be cool.

Love the educational side of this thread.

Chris

[quadshot]

Ok I'm out of here, the blinds on my bedroom window are blowing , which means the wind at the coast is starting to blow. So here is the day's plan.

Load up planes and head to starbucks. Get my quadshot over ice in a venti cup (where my Quadshot handle comes from)

Go to Daves Beach and do a little coastal slopin. Also, cg my restored weasel for ds bungee fun.

Hook up with Mark (Freeglide) and head on out to Poway and DS till sunset with the DS Junkies.

Video camera is charged, so footage to follow.

Surf and Turf day!

Everyone have a great day flying/dsing. Let us all know how the day was.

Chris

[wr_mizzard]

Greg wish I could make it up to the bump Saturday, but it looks like I will be at Poway with a bunch of my San Diego friends. Would love to watch you ds the bump and get your insight there.


I'm probably not going to make it out to Poway today 'cause the GF is leaving this evening for a week and she wants some "quality" time together.
However, I'm getting all the planes charged up for some fun somewhere tomorrow... I'm thinking of either Blossom or Bill's Hill (Pala).

Any non-fathers available for some DS time tomorrow too?

-James
didn't go to santa barbara

[rockbus]

Just got back and cleaned off the Poway dust.

Had a good time today. Met up with James, Chris, Mark and Mike. Mr Robert was just leaving as I got there and another guy left when I showed up. Not much wind but fun enough.

Chris' bungee is a hoot, radared at 73 mph on launch.

James P-51 DSed at 46 mph, HP did 50 or so.
Chris' Bird hit 73, Weasel hit 50, Mini Weasel 23, miniswift was too slow to radar.
Marks M60 was in the 60's, Mini Destiny DNF, Miniflow ???, Weasel 49.
All I brought was my race weasel and hit 50 mph my offical radared PB.

We must have set some records:

Fastest Foamie P-51, Fastest MiniWeasel, Miniswift and Miniflow DS speeds

and most Weasels on the backside at the same time.

[daboz]

Surf and Turf day!

Let us all know how the day was.

Chris


Slide n Glide was fun today, first HB surf, double swell, a little onshore early, so Temple Hill,, fun fun... Lots o wind.

chris

[wr_mizzard]

Just got back and cleaned off the Poway dust.

Had a good time today. Met up with James, Chris, Mark and Mike. Mr Robert was just leaving as I got there and another guy left when I showed up. Not much wind but fun enough.

Chris' bungee is a hoot, radared at 73 mph on launch.

James P-51 DSed at 46 mph, HP did 50 or so.
Chris' Bird hit 73, Weasel hit 50, Mini Weasel 23, miniswift was too slow to radar.
Marks M60 was in the 60's, Mini Destiny DNF, Miniflow ???, Weasel 49.
All I brought was my race weasel and hit 50 mph my offical radared PB.

We must have set some records:

Fastest Foamie P-51, Fastest MiniWeasel, Miniswift and Miniflow DS speeds

and most Weasels on the backside at the same time.


Sorry I missed it... anybody interested in doing some DS tomorrow?

-James

[Mr. Robert]

Some PICs from today at Poway

[rockbus]

Robert did you fly the Fish???

James and Chris has some video that I'd like to see. Some with the bungee launches and some vid of a flock of weasels DSing.


Happy Father's Day

[quadshot]

Guys what a great day at Poway. Geez where to start?

First seeing James dial in dsing his halfpipe, so smooth and on track, really cool.

Then Mark with his M60, Wow I think the best ds curcuits of the day. Nonstop with great style.

Robert and his Skua was so awesome to watch. I was blown away how well it dsed. Also, Robert thanks so much for taking the time to download the 200 plus pictures your son took. There are some really awesome shots you posted.

Ray, what can I say? Showing up with the radar gun and showing us how to really ds a weasel. Took the fun level up 5 notches.

Then with the wind dieing off and weasel mania erupting. So much fun. Ray mark and myself trying to brake the 50mph barier all at the same time, what a blast.

And for myself, all my hard work this week paying off getting my weasel rebuilt and putting together a bungee cord. It was my first time ever bungee launching. Shooting that weasel up at an angle into the perfect ds dive in spot, and hearing all the hoots and giggles everytime I lauched that little sucker was the best.

The only problem is James broke my video camera (just kidding bro, you just noticed it was acting up), so I have all this great video, but can't get it off the camera, to share with everyone. :O(
I'll figure it out, just not right away. Sorry everyone.

Anyway, all you guys yesterday (Mark, James, Ray, Robert) are what inspired me to start this thread and I crown you founding members of the Amateur DS Junkies Club!

Lets keep the fun flying!

Chris

[Mr. Robert]

Chris,

Are you going out to Poway today? I am going out around 1pm

Robert, with out my son this time.

[jduartep]

Chris,

I most say yesterday was great, I had a blast watching you guys trying to brake the 50 mile and hour record with the Weasel's!! and I have to say that if it wasn't for you I would never got into Ds'ing so you are to me of course the founder of the DS amateur junkies club!! keep it up Bro...(sorry about the camera)jajaja..

[dc812]

I'm guessing you get a bonus "activity point" if you find a rattler while looking for your plane!

Man, you and Bruno have me all freaked out with all this talk about rattlers.....and I'm an ex-zoner who grew up playing in the dessert :eek:

DC


How many "activity points" for picking up your plane from the backside... running from rattlesnakes?

-James

[deputybuzz]

Here is a classic day from last year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgjMTksDw7o

[rockbus]

Where is Eagle Mountain?

[Mr. Robert]

Trying to upload video

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879960#post9961771

[quadshot]

Eagle Mountain looks awesome. I am guessing somewhere in Colorado? Too much grass and not enough rocks for California.

Can't wait to fly a big ds spot like that.

[quadshot]

Robert the video is nice. The definition on the frames is sweet. I'm going to have to recover my planes if you keep taking video. It came through jumpy though. But it could be my quicktime software. when ever I open a file I comes up in 7 quicktime windows. If you get it on Youtube or Viemo, please repost I would love to see it smooth. I'm a bit bias since it is me flying :o)

Chris

[quadshot]

Well I chose not to DS today. I was planning just flying a couple hours this morning at my local spot (Dave's Beach), and then watch the US Open. Got to Dave's around 10 am and did not leave until sunset tonight. Great day at the beach, but still not the same anymore like yesterday DSing all day.

I actually was doing my last Weasel flight, and thinking it would be neat if I could hook my new bungee up to something when I looked over to the right and there was the perfect chunk of cement sticking up right on the edge of the cliff. The rest of the day was set bungee heaven with the weasel and the moth. Then one of the guys Dave broke into his little parts box and we hooked his Scrappy up with a hook. It lauched great. Then he rigged the rest of his planes and it just turned into a Bungeefest.

Anyway, I know this does not have anything directly to do with DSing. But I learned a lot about bungeeing, which was super cool to do yesterday at Poway when the frontside lift was weak and I was just bungeeing my weasel up into the perfect dive in spot every time. So anyway, I can't wait until September when we get our east winds to try and bungee and ds the frontside of the cliff at the beach! Actually, Mr Roberts idea that I have heard him mention a couple times before.

Anyone try to do this? Bungee and ds a spot that does not have a frontside lift zone (i.e. a slope site when the wind is going the other way). I bet Wr. Mizzard probably has video all ready of him doing just that :O)

Chris
Longer posts than Mr. Predetor!

[D.S.]

I have posted this a bunch of times already but maybe you guys didn't see it. We had this Mini JW launching over 130 mph on radar using a peddle launcher. The bungee was four parallel 20' lengths of heavy duty surgical tubing stretched way to far. Dangerous, but loads of fun while we were waiting for the wind to figure out which way it was going to blow.

Dean

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9136033362364385621&hl=en

[prplgoat]

Eagle Mountain looks awesome. I am guessing somewhere in Colorado? Too much grass and not enough rocks for California.

Can't wait to fly a big ds spot like that.
eagle mnt is in utah. a few miles SW of the point of the mnt.

marty

[The Predator]

Too much grass to be CO???
I had 1,000 up thermals too at 13K ft. MSL. It felt like I was sitting with god! I thought I might get a chance to meet him too!

[quadshot]

Predator, you've got me drowling all over my paperwork here at work. Have you actually flown that spot? Wow!

There is no way I could hike up to 13k to DS a spot like that. I've always dreamed of taking the gondola up to the top of Mammoth ski resort and fly, and now that I am a dser I really want to do it. Everytime I go up there snowboarding the wind is howling. Summer time they open the gondola for mtn bikers and hikers. Putting it on my Bucket List. Anyone know anyone who has done this?

On the grass comment in CO. Rumor here is that your LZ's are even rockier then ours here in CA. Looks like up there above the tree line and the rock line you have the glasier line, which would make a great LZ (if you don't fall over the edge)!

[wr_mizzard]

Anyone try to do this? Bungee and ds a spot that does not have a frontside lift zone (i.e. a slope site when the wind is going the other way). I bet Wr. Mizzard probably has video all ready of him doing just that :O)

Chris
Longer posts than Mr. Predetor!


Not YET!

I was out at Blossom yesterday and had some fun flying the Salto. The wind wasn't quite strong enough to get some good laps in... hard to get it up to altitude for a good drop in (shoulda' had the bungee:). I ended up nosing the Salto in pretty good... back to the bench for another nose job, fortunately the wing repair I just finished held up to the abuse (probably 'cause the nose absorbed most of the punch). I think the Salto might end up hanging on the wall after this repair though... it just ain't what it ought to be.

-James
Looking for another go-fast crunchie

[rcgroupie]

quad,

Do the Hobie brothers still fly Poway?

rcgroupie

[quadshot]

Hey Wr Mizzard, sorry hear about your Salto. Glad it is fixable and taking a break. Love composites, and hate the crunching.

What do you think about using a bungee to ds somewhere without a frontside? It could open up a whole world of ds sites that would not be looked at for that. There is no doubt a bungee gets the planes up high enough to dive in with plenty of speed. Have to find a good place to try this. Nice construction pad maybe.

Maybe up at Double peak. Mark and I tried dsing the foam bowl during the last santa ana, The problem was we could not get enough lift on the frontside overlooking San Marcos to dive into the bowl. I finally just chucked my JW as hard and high as I could into the front wind and ran as fast as I could across the street while seting up my dive in, and actually got a couple good laps. The bungee would have been perfect and we could have dsed the crap out of it. But that still had a frontside effect coming over the top and creating a layer.

Anyway, now that I am bungee certified I am going to have to keep my eyes open for possibilities.

Chris
Looking for a non go crunch fasty :o)

[quadshot]

RCGroupie, Have not seen the Hobie guys at Poway. Actually, never ran into then. I've only been flying there for less than a year, and only been up there consistently dsing since I started dsing a few months ago. I have been going up there just about every weekend to practice my dsing, and there has hardly been anyone there. It has been great for DS learning, but now I am really happy having the San Diego chapter of DS Junkies there to ds with.

Chris

[quadshot]

Hey anyone in San Diego (preferably north county) have a camcorder that uses mini DV tapes and has a firewire connection (USB might work). My camcorder broke and won't play back the 25 minutes of footage I have from Saturday. I know there is great video on there. I just need to conect it to my laptop and get it off of the tape.

[wr_mizzard]

Hey Wr Mizzard, sorry hear about your Salto. Glad it is fixable and taking a break. Love composites, and hate the crunching.

What do you think about using a bungee to ds somewhere without a frontside? It could open up a whole world of ds sites that would not be looked at for that. There is no doubt a bungee gets the planes up high enough to dive in with plenty of speed. Have to find a good place to try this. Nice construction pad maybe.

Maybe up at Double peak. Mark and I tried dsing the foam bowl during the last santa ana, The problem was we could not get enough lift on the frontside overlooking San Marcos to dive into the bowl. I finally just chucked my JW as hard and high as I could into the front wind and ran as fast as I could across the street while seting up my dive in, and actually got a couple good laps. The bungee would have been perfect and we could have dsed the crap out of it. But that still had a frontside effect coming over the top and creating a layer.

Anyway, now that I am bungee certified I am going to have to keep my eyes open for possibilities.

Chris
Looking for a non go crunch fasty :o)

No worries about the Salto... fixing them crunchies is like fixing surfboards (something I have plenty of experience doing, too).
When you say the "foam bowl" up at Double Peak, are you talking about the bowl above the park to-be where the road is gated off with the power boxes next to the sidewalk right in the middle of the saddle? That's where I tried DS'ng, but with a SW wind coming up the bowl... it was way to shallow without any defined boundry. I could imagine it would work well on a Santa Ana+bungee... count me in! I'll keep my eyes peeled for the non-slope DS sites too (not many treelines that I know of around here).

-James
crunching birds and boards left and right

[quadshot]

Yeah James that is exactly where I am talking about by the power boxes. I was wondering about the other side with a SW, since summer time last year is when Mark and I spent alot of time up there where the wind had a lot of south in it. It's such a great setup but foam does not seem to fly well up there. We found only thermally ships were the funnest. Throw off at where you park get height at the first peak go over to peak 2 and get higher venture off to thermal the field out front or head across the the big hill to your left and climb to way up top of that hill (Marks Mtn), back to the foam bowl and all voer the place from there. It was alot of fun with the wind being so light at the coast last summer.

But we continually struggled with our foam and composite ships. The only place I got a little consistency with my foam ships was up at the foam bowl which is how it got its name. But still nothing real epic. It was a shame because we would get some really good wind where foam should fly but it just didn't have the bite to stay up.

I think you have had the same experience.

Lets keep our eyes open

[rockbus]

Chris I have a minidv camcorder. I'll be home early from work Tuesday so give me a call.

[AvB]

I should chip into this amateur DS thread ... but I'm a bit shy as I think you guys are too good at DS for a member like me! Perhaps I should start a "total klutz DS thread"??

But I'm totally hooked too, and although I'd like to get some bigger numbers up when the day and the wind and the site and my availability are all synchronized ... I really just love the DS effect. Every day I do it, I am in awe of it, and still in some disbelief that it actually works (and so well!)

Sometimes it's great just to get the DS kick, even if you can't make the whole circle. I fly my little light Minij down at the beach, where it's a very small slope with a few round-ish trees down near the bottom. I love to "fly the eye of the needle", diving through a narrow gap between the lower and upper row of trees, below the spread of their upper branches, where the air's dead. The whole gap is only as big as a bus, height and length-wise and going under the branches at one end makes it exciting. Sometimes if you get it really low at the bottom almost touching the grass, you can get a kick of extra speed as you pull out, and some extra height. Then I just float around and do it again. It's great when it's so light that you can barely stay up on the front, but you can get the plane whooshing out of there. as you exit. I love that.

[wr_mizzard]

I should chip into this amateur DS thread ... but I'm a bit shy as I think you guys are too good at DS for a member like me! Perhaps I should start a "total klutz DS thread"??

But I'm totally hooked too, and although I'd like to get some bigger numbers up when the day and the wind and the site and my availability are all synchronized ... I really just love the DS effect. Every day I do it, I am in awe of it, and still in some disbelief that it actually works (and so well!)

Sometimes it's great just to get the DS kick, even if you can't make the whole circle. I fly my little light Minij down at the beach, where it's a very small slope with a few round-ish trees down near the bottom. I love to "fly the eye of the needle", diving through a narrow gap between the lower and upper row of trees, below the spread of their upper branches, where the air's dead. The whole gap is only as big as a bus, height and length-wise and going under the branches at one end makes it exciting. Sometimes if you get it really low at the bottom almost touching the grass, you can get a kick of extra speed as you pull out, and some extra height. Then I just float around and do it again. It's great when it's so light that you can barely stay up on the front, but you can get the plane whooshing out of there. as you exit. I love that.

I know the feeling AvB. Here we have a coastal site that not many people fly because of the R-rated parking lot/people factor but there's good lift and a few palm trees that I like to "thread the needle" on. Passing behind the one tree you can see the plane bobble up and down in the swirling/dead air right behind the tree. I've swung around the tree a few times... and like you say, you can almost feel the plane gaining energy, enough to make it back around the tree anyways. DS'ng is cool 'cause of the new challenge it provides to those of us who are tired of figure eights.

-James

[The End]

Butch and I hiked up to the Foam Bowl a while back, and I think bungee start is what you need. Once you get a good dive in, I think it would be a ton of fun.

With the housing situation, I don't think they will build up there for a while..

[quadshot]

Hey AvB, you Ds Junkie, welcome to the theread. You are exactly the type of dser I started this thread for! I've only been dsing for a couple months, and it is all about just the love of doing it, and not how good or fast you do it (there are plenty of threads for that. Please don't be shy and would love to hear your input. Infact I think you are our first International Amatuer DS Junkie!

Love the tree DS'ing thing. That sound so cool and crazy. Please show us some pictures of what you are talking about.

I think we are just scratching the surface of what we can do. I was cracking myself up a couple days ago. My favorate place to fly is at the beach but there just doesn't seem to be any real ds spots. Then I just realized there are all these houses on the bluff, so why can't you ds behind the house! So I crused down the forntage road looking for good houses and flying areas to maybe do this. And I ran into this perfect A framed chapel at the Army Navy Acadamy that would ds insane. Just no open place to launch and recover. Just opens up the mind to possibilities though.

Sorry, I got excited there and went off on a tangent. Anyway welcome to the group AVB.

Chris

[quadshot]

Hey Terry (The End) where have you and Butch been flying? He is the one that got me thinking of trying dsing after telling me all about you guys doing it at the Bump and Poway.

We need to get a new Hooters DS ship put together and do another signing!

Chirs

[AvB]

Thanks very much Chris, James, etc. Yeah you get so hooked, you're frustrated all day racking your brain thinking of possible DS spots. We have great coastal breeze here at times but there's no decent spot to DS around here. Sometimes at our most regularly beachy/ cliff place we try to DS diving behind a few trees into a park and we call it DS, but really it's "trying to fly thru the turbulence without doing a massive cartwheel into the park bench".

Depending on wind direction there are some options about an hour's drive in different directions, but there's no spot that works in our predominant (SE) winds. GRrr. I find myself looking at new highrise buildings going up on the beachfront, thinking, "now if I could get myself up on that roof ..."! We could end up like the BASE jumpers!

[quadshot]

Hey AvB, same thing here on the San Diego coast. We have to drive about an hour also to get our ds fix as well. Now that summer time is kicking in it is hot as hell at all the inland sights. But at least its a dry heat :O)

[Daemon]

Find a spot you can park near the lip, and rent a 40 foot RV. ;)

Otherwise, look for frontside DS possibilities. Basically steep frontside
with sharp lip leading into a road cut or similar.
Video of some of my all time favorite flying
http://www.thud.us/videos/rc/zion-fishbowl-fun4-700k.wmv
We've done it in much tighter road cuts than that.

ian

[Kahnx]

AvB

You need to start looking into getting a bungee. I bought a 50' length of the heavy duty stuff from Southern Sailplanes. I cut it into three equal 17' (5m) lengths, put eyelets into the ends, and heavy duty keyrings. This makes the perfect slingshot bungee for foamies up to 60" (heavy JW). Then cut up a wire coathanger and bend it into a zig-zag with a hook on the end and tape it on a couple of inches back from the nose of the plane. Connect the fixed end to a fencepost/peg/car/statue/etc. On a flatland launch the bungee stretches to about 20-30m and can put any DS plane <2m up to 30-50m into the air. This provides an excellent point from which to start the initial dive into that non-existant-fron-side DS spot.

At amoung other places, I use my sling-shot to launch over a small quarry for some suprisingly effective flat-land DS that would be otherwise inaccessible. I also use it at a well-known DAM (The Rock Garden) on light days, which would otherwise not have enough wind for even front-side, but just enough for endless lazy DS. Need to get out over those pesky trees? - a good sling-shot opens up an otherwise unusuable site.

I have no shame launching with a Bungee at well known sloping events (Camperdown) when everyone else is charging their LiPos (no wind), and it gives beginner pilots a good starting altitude for non-buddy equipped radios on light conditions.

I wouldn't be even mentioning this technique in the big-dogs threads, but for other hack-DSer like me, it's a great little tool.

Cheers

Kahn

[AvB]

Ian your videos are so good, mate, truly excellent. They make me smile and feel uplifted!! One of our local guys (Mark) posted a link to your Fazer DS acro comp video on our local Windsock forum here (http://windsock.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=461), and everyone's loving it. And ... wait for it ... Mark's now located a used Fazer for a great price so I think there will soon be 2 of us with Fazers!

We gotta get into some of that Frontside DS!! That looks like excellent fun. Just gotta find the spot. Those crashes into the guardrail made me feel better about how I treat my planes!

[Daemon]

Creating one Fazer DS junkie after another. ;)
I've heard there damn near impossible to get new any more (been
replaced by bigger and better).
One thing about the Fazer though. I think it's a good idea to wrap a 2-3
inch wide strip of light glass around each half of horizontal stab so that it
reinforces the area right at the end of the stab joiner rod. My Fazer stabs
both broke there, on two hard landings (just pancaked down hard), and most of
my DSing has been after repairing them so they're stronger than new.
I just used glass strip cut on the bias, wrapped all the way around once
and trimmed at the trailing edge, stuck down with a misting of Super 77
and finished with CA.
My new Crossfire died DSing recently ;(, and I'm pretty sure the initial failure
was at the same place on the full flying stab (which then caused it to
immediately pitch forward hard, and the wing folded downwards).

BTW, higher quality version of the Fazer Freestyle at Jones video
here http://www.thud.us/videos/rc/jones-fazer-freestyle.wmv
(YouTube version leaves something to be desired. I should
re-upload it and see if the new "high quality" mode can keep up
with the motion)

ian

[quadshot]

Ian and Kahn, you guys are inspirational. I love it. 40'RV dsing all summer long at the beach cliffs :o). That frontside road dsing video is so great. 5 wings at the same time. So cool. I will never drive a mountain road again the same way. And the Fazer freestyle ds videos OMG! Great great stuff.

Keep the faith,
Chris

[quadshot]

We could have a more dangerous sport like kite boarding.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b1NfWHVzQU

[Daemon]

It's a Sprite commercial (whole thing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNQkIjxdSwg

ian