Phoenix or G4?

[Shamash]

I would appreciate any opinions about which of these has better flight realism for planes like an aerobatic Extra, midwing sport planes, warbirds, etc.

Thank you very much.

[cloud-9]

I would appreciate any opinions about which of these has better flight realism for planes like an aerobatic Extra, midwing sport planes, warbirds, etc.

Thank you very much.



Me too, wondering the same thing. Hope you get some responses.

[nemo_uk]

there are a lot of warbirds etc. available for G4 (G3.5) ...

ones can pay for ... http://www.realflight.com/
and a lot you can download for free
...http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php (search feature is bottom left of the page)

[Lee]

I really like the G4. I'm surprised I like it so well. I have flown for 35+ years and it is still a fun change. Some of the screens look photograph quality and I have liked the multiplayer options and have flying friends that I will probably never meet that get together on the G4 group flying options.

G4 offers 5 professional prepared Expansion packs for about $30 each and some free downloads of 5 complete add on packs. I especially like Expansion Pack #3 and a city simulation that is there. There are also some free user designed planes that are some of the more origional designs.

It does require a better than adverage computer with a fast video card with alot of video specific memory. There are many who are dissapointed because their computer is too slow but if you have the fast computer with a really fast video card you won't be dissappointed with G4.

Go look at the free down loads at www.knifeedge.com. They are posted by user designers and not neccessarily by G4. Some of them are some of my favorites and free to download. Many of the G3.5 downloads also work just fine with the G4. In fact that is where I have done the most downloads.


.

[cloud-9]

I really like the G4. I'm surprised I like it so well. I have flown for 35+ years and it is still a fun change. Some of the screens look photograph quality and I have liked the multiplayer options and have flying friends that I will probably never meet that get together on the G4 group flying options.

G4 offers 5 professional prepared Expansion packs for about $30 each and some free downloads of 5 complete add on packs. I especially like Expansion Pack #3 and a city simulation that is there. There are also some free user designed planes that are some of the more origional designs.

It does require a better than adverage computer with a fast video card with alot of video specific memory. There are many who are dissapointed because their computer is too slow but if you have the fast computer with a really fast video card you won't be dissappointed with G4.

Go look at the free down loads at www.knifeedge.com. They are posted by user designers and not neccessarily by G4. Some of them are some of my favorites and free to download. Many of the G3.5 downloads also work just fine with the G4. In fact that is where I have done the most downloads.


.



So if you have been flying that long, I guess the flight characteristics (physics?) of the planes in G4 must seem fairly real, or you wouldn't enjoy it?

Jim

[Lee]

The planes and radio feel very accurate. I even have the screen hooked up to a 61" big screen for occasional flying and the picture is amazingly clear. The water reflection and the clouds are very realistic. I haven't seen any other simulator that is even close to the G4 standard.

I bought the simulator mainly to learn to fly helicopters but that isn't where I have spent my time. I like their 3D planes with lots of power but they have done well with gliders and older designs too.

I repeat the fact that you will love it if you have a computer powerful enough to run it. The program itself will tell you how many frames per second your computer is generating. If that number gets too low the simulation is jerky and slow. I have a fast computer that will run frequently in the 150-250 FPS with all features turned on if flying alone and about 80-100 FPS if in a multiplayer format. I have heard of some frustrated flyers complaining that they are only getting 10-20 FPS on an older computer some of the features turned off.

The cost of having the great simulation is you have to have a fast computer.

[cloud-9]

The planes and radio feel very accurate. I even have the screen hooked up to a 61" big screen for occassional flying and the picture is amazingly clear. the water reflection and the clouds are amazingly clear. I haven't seen any other simulator that is even close to the G4 standard.

I bought the simulator mainly to learn to fly helicopters but that isn't where I have spent my time. I like their 3D planes with lots of power but they have done well with gliders and older designs too.

I repeat the fact that you will love it if you have a computer powerful enough to run it. The program itself will tell you how many frames per second your computer is generating. If that number gets too low the simulation is jerky and slow. I have a fast computer that will run frequently in the 150-250 FPS with all features turned on if flying alone and about 80-100 FPS if in a multiplayer format. I have heard of some frustrated flyers complaining that they are only getting 10-20 FPS on an older computer some of the features turned off.

The cost of having the great simulation is you have to have a fast computer.


Thanks much. My computer is pretty new with a gaming video card, hopefully powerful enough. I'm mostly hoping to hear from somebody with Phoenix experience too but I know it's not likely somebody would own both.

Thanks
Jim

[Lee]

This is the computer I own. I have had no Vista problems at all.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8772768&type=product&id=1204331806567

The thing to notice is the 8800GT video card with the 512 of video memory and the 4G of RAM. Considering it is an off the shelf computer at this price it does well.

I was talking to someone yesterday that spent $4500 for a custom computer. He was real pleased with his simulation but this computer at least in this game was about the same FPS.

[cloud-9]

This is the computer I own. I have had no Vista problems at all.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8772768&type=product&id=1204331806567

The thing to notice is the 8800GT video card with the 512 of video memory and the 4G of RAM. Considering it is an off the shelf computer at this price it does well.

I was talking to someone yesterday that spent $4500 for a custom computer. He was real pleased with his simulation but this computer at least in this game was about the same FPS.


Amazing what you can get for $1000 these days, Moore's law and all.

Mine's an Nvidia GeForce 8600 GTS, and 2 6600 cores at 2.4 ghz and 4 gigs of ram. Video card is about half as powerful as yours. Hopefully good enough. I wonder if you use all your cores, you could look at the performance tool and see, but again hopefully mine's OK.

Thanks again,
Jim

[cloud-9]

This is the computer I own. I have had no Vista problems at all.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8772768&type=product&id=1204331806567

The thing to notice is the 8800GT video card with the 512 of video memory and the 4G of RAM. Considering it is an off the shelf computer at this price it does well.

I was talking to someone yesterday that spent $4500 for a custom computer. He was real pleased with his simulation but this computer at least in this game was about the same FPS.


I found and downloaded the G4 demo. You can fly 3 planes. It shows about 50 frames per second. I wonder if that is a limit, and if it represents what I'll get from the full program?

I could buy a better graphics card, but the computer RAM and processors are maxed out.

Have you looked at your task manager performance window? Mine suggests realflight is only using one of my processors. It's running about 50% and the other is about idling.

Jim

[Stan Peterson]

Phoenix has a similar demo as well, you should download both and make a comparison: www.phoenix-sim.com/demo.htm

[Lee]

Your computer should do fine. Are you happy with the 50 FPS? If so then don't worry about upgrading the card. You can always do that later if you want the increased speed.

[Lee]

I just pulled up task manager. When I am flying in G4 I am using all 4 processors fairly equally. The minimum usage was 24% and maximum usage I had was 31% when flying a custom plane over water in a custom scene with all features turned to high, which usually uses the most memory. It says I am using 2.11Gig of my 4Gig memory.

I was getting about 130 FPS. The fastest FPS I have seen is over 320 with everything on. The lowest in the 70s in multiplayer mode while hosting.

Right now with task manager on, Skype on and RCgroups on I am using 1%-3% with activity in all four processors.

I had several people tell me that the video card and dedicated video card memory is what will make the biggest difference. My card is not the fastest card. There are many that are faster including the 8800GTX which I hear has a dedicated 1G memory.

I hope this helps. I had a million questions about what was important when I bought my computer. I don't have much computer knowledge so I had to trust a couple of technicians (geeks) who build custom gaming computers. It looks like they gave me good advice. Following their advice I waited for the 8800 GT card to become available in an affordable package.

My biggest problem is my wife likes it better on the internet than her computer so now I have to take turns.

[Racer57]

Your computer should do fine. Are you happy with the 50 FPS? If so then don't worry about upgrading the card. You can always do that later if you want the increased speed.

Since a human can't discern anything over 30FPS shouldn't make a difference.

[cloud-9]

I just pulled up task manager. When I am flying in G4 I am using all 4 processors fairly equally. The minimum usage was 24% and maximum usage I had was 31% when flying a custom plane over water in a custom scene with all features turned to high, which usually uses the most memory. It says I am using 2.11Gig of my 4Gig memory.

I was getting about 130 FPS. The fastest FPS I have seen is over 320. The lowest in the 70s in multiplayer mode while hosting.

Right now with task manager on, Skype on and RCgroups on I am using 1%-3% with activity in all four processors.

I had several people tell me that the video card and dedicated video card memory is what will make the biggest difference. My card is not the fastest card. There are many that are faster including the 8800GTX which I hear has a dedicated 1G memory.

I hope this helps. I had a million questions about what was important when I bought my computer. I don't have much computer knowledge so I had to trust a couple of technicians (geeks) who build custom gaming computers. It looks like they gave me good advice. Following their advice I waited for the 8800 GT card to become available in an affordable package.

My biggest problem is my wife likes it better on the internet than her computer so now I have to take turns.


Thanks for the help. When I turn everything off, to low, etc., I get about 500-600 fps. I decided to turn on clouds, particles (smoke trails), shadows, and soft shadows, wind features (wind sock I guess), and leave everything else off. I'm getting around 200-300 fps. It looks good, so it seems OK.

Thanks again for the help, would have been scratching my head without you.

Jim

[bilboa]

Since a human can't discern anything over 30FPS shouldn't make a difference.

This is definitely not true. 60 FPS is about the limit a human can detect. A game running at only 30 FPS will appear choppy and flickery to just about anyone, but I can believe 50 FPS might look OK to most people.

[Cheekers]

I thought NTSC video was 29.97? If that frame rate is good enough for DVD, is there a reason it would not be good enough for a game (not that higher isn't better).

[skirtz]

If you freeze frames from fast moving movie scene, you will see that moving objects are blurred. Because of that, 30 fps seems smooth for a movie. In computer games, you need at least 60 fps and even then you may feel flicker. That is why computer monitors have refresh rate 75 Hz and more. If a game is to use vSync, it must be rendering faster than 100 FPS, or will be missing frames in moments of small delays. In my opinion, 100 fps is the minumum for decent quality.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[-GreenLion-]

Hi guys, sorry if this is getting off topic...

But I am thinking about getting Realflight G4 as it looks absolutely astounding, so I downloaded the demo and attempted to play it and as I loaded it up i recieved a message saying my graphics card isnt good enough may not have best qulaity so forth, so I thought "Yeah I knew that".

But again as it loaded an error message said "error loading PropDisk"

Now I'm not sure that this is because I do not have a usb cord for my transmitter as yet therefore I don't have one to play with, or that it is indeed a graphics card issue. If anyone has heard of this issue any advice will be greatly appreciated, as if necessary I can go out and buy a card 5x better than my current one for about $150

Regards, GreenLion

[cloud-9]

Hi guys, sorry if this is getting off topic...

But I am thinking about getting Realflight G4 as it looks absolutely astounding, so I downloaded the demo and attempted to play it and as I loaded it up i recieved a message saying my graphics card isnt good enough may not have best qulaity so forth, so I thought "Yeah I knew that".

But again as it loaded an error message said "error loading PropDisk"

Now I'm not sure that this is because I do not have a usb cord for my transmitter as yet therefore I don't have one to play with, or that it is indeed a graphics card issue. If anyone has heard of this issue any advice will be greatly appreciated, as if necessary I can go out and buy a card 5x better than my current one for about $150

Regards, GreenLion


That sounds like one for Real Flight support.

Jim

[nemo_uk]

Hi guys, sorry if this is getting off topic...

But I am thinking about getting Realflight G4 as it looks absolutely astounding, so I downloaded the demo and attempted to play it and as I loaded it up i recieved a message saying my graphics card isnt good enough may not have best qulaity so forth, so I thought "Yeah I knew that".

But again as it loaded an error message said "error loading PropDisk"


That's a problem with your graphics card (as the program was suggesting) G3.5 and G4 require a graphics card which is DX9 compliant ...

http://www.realflight.com/requirements/g4_system.html

compatible video card list (needs updating) ...

http://www.knifeedge.com/rfvc_compatibility.php

[-GreenLion-]

Thanks and much appreciated mate. :cool:

[Lee]

G4 pushes most computers to their limit. I have two other relatively fast computers (when used online) that won't run G4. I had to bite the bullet and upgrade to even get the program to run. I took a big step to get the performance. See post #8.

[USNAviationjay]

Fast when it comes to office/internet applications and then gaming is 200% different.
games require very very fast dedicated grafics cards and there are only 2 companies worth a darn making them right now.
Nvidia and ATI.

In Video cards you 100% get what you pay for.
the more the better (but only if the rest of your PC is up to date or a card wont do much for you)

I am one of those Tech geeks Systems Administrator that does this for a living.
My personal box is

E8400 Wolfdale
8 gigs of DDR3
2x 8800 GTS 512s
on Vista 64 Ultimate

This is custom built by myself and runs games at thier highest settings usually above 100FPS

This cost a WHOLE lot less than a Dell or HP or Alienware PC to build being I built it myself.

It amazing how brilliant alot of you are with these Hobby Electronics but how many of you are afraid to build a PC =D

Get out there ask questions and you can save alot of cash building your own =D

I personally just bought Phoenix and its amazing (specially if you are into Helis over planes)

[axolotol]

I have Phoenix and love it. i originally bought it withmy trex 450 to learn choppers. it has saved me thousands in repairs. although i have also spent hundreds.
I have a mate who has been flying for about 30 years and he bought it after borrowing my sim. i havent seen G4 but will D/L the demo and check it out.
The best thing i can say about Phoenix is after having it for about 8 months and being able to hover and fly the chopper forward and backwards, not nose in or sideways, I got my first plane, T-28 Trojan. hadnt flown a plane before other than the sim and about 10 min on the buddy box with a glider. Took off, flew, landed no problem. by the 3rd flight i was doing loops and rolls. all solo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8OJ1VgfuL8

[cloud-9]

I have Phoenix and love it. i originally bought it withmy trex 450 to learn choppers. it has saved me thousands in repairs. although i have also spent hundreds.
I have a mate who has been flying for about 30 years and he bought it after borrowing my sim. i havent seen G4 but will D/L the demo and check it out.




Thanks. It seems like the guys who prefer phoenix are chopper pilots. I'm strictly into planes. Have you spent much time with the planes?

Thanks
Jim

[axolotol]

i spend most of my time with the planes on the sim, much more fun. it actually helps my chopper flying. i can now fly figure 8's. you might be able to hire a sim from the LHS to try it out. the place in NZ where i got my stuff from does that. the phoenix cable is the security and the sim wont work without it so there is no copying issue.

forgot to add
My flying buddy tells me that the planes all handle the way you would expect them to. physics etc. you can also adjust many of the paramaters of the aircraft - weight, size, power to weight, airfoil type. heaps of stuff to tune. all downloads, upgrades, new models, flying fields are free. all photo realistic. you can even take your own photos of your model and flying field and send it to them so they can add to the sim. i havent done this yet because it looks like quite a process.
they have recently added a new program to paint your models if you want to.

[axolotol]

just found this. it might help also.
http://www.emptynestgames.com/rc_sim_chart.html

i have been testing G4. seems ok, as far as what i can do with the keyboard anyway. maybe not as realistic as phoenix though.
couldnt find settings for turbulance and wind gusts - this has helped me heaps on phoenix, it adds more realism and helps you learn to be automatic when flying for real.

[cloud-9]

Thanks...

[Lee]

I think the question is why are you buying a simulator. If it to get the reflexes to control an RC plane you can accomplish that with FMS almost for free.

Before I bought G4 I trained my sons to fly on the Microsoft Flight Simulator set on a tower and track mode. We used a logitec two stick PC game controller (not a radio simulator) because we all ready had one and the boys all did well. Each of them had about 3 hours on the simulator before I took them out flying with a buddy cord. All of them learned to fly without destroying a single plane. Of course their first planes were EPP wings and did take a little abuse. but they all fly well now.

There is nothing wrong with the cheaper options. They don't require the computer horsepower the top end simulators need. A new flyer in our group is using Clearview and says he likes it. I have known a couple of folks who have used FMS.

Am I glad I bought G4? The answer is yes, but I didn't buy it to learn to fly. The big cost was not G4 but the computer I bought to run it. I imagine all of the upper end simulators have the same computer needs.

Realize that the minimum computer requirements are often the lowest level of computer that it will run on, they do not promise a fast frame rate with the minimum requirements.